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Techniques for CollectorsThe Big One: Oversized Micros

24th Jan 2017 23:52 UTCScott Braley

So, as an avid field collector, I often end up with large rocks with micro features. Most of the time this is a non-issue - most will end up on the trimmer or saw, and get reduced to a reasonable size. Some are impossible - I have a ~10 kilo rock that has a ~30 cm x 10 cm area lined with a variety of micros, representing about 1/3 of a pocket. An amazing piece, but no sane way to reduce it, and very awkward to get under a scope.

In between, however, I end up with a fair number of pieces that _could_ be broken down, with some risk of loss of material. Pieces with multiple vugs, risky cracks, and so forth. I (like anyone) have lost some good pieces trying to trim them down.

I usually make my decisions based on how much of the mineral I have already, how much might be destroyed, and the difficulty of reducing the piece. I am one that doesn't mind unobtrusive saw cuts, so that's always a possibility for me.

I'm curious about other folks' thought processes. Do you take risks or sacrifice material to get things down to smaller sizes? Saws ok? Any good anecdotes? I'm trying to clean up and organize my collection, so these awkward pieces are preying on my mind.

25th Jan 2017 00:06 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Scott.

I know you already said that one big piece was too hard to get under the microscope but I would say if at all possible, before trimming any pieces that may loose good crystals or pockets, try and get a photo first and then if the piece breaks wrong, you still have the photo.

I learned the hard way about this and my wife was the one that told me to take photos of special pieces before trimming. Since then I have lost a couple but still have the photos of the piece before they were lost.

25th Jan 2017 01:33 UTCTony Peterson Expert

I do that also Rolf, and I live even more dangerously than Scott. There's nothing I hate more than having some good microcrystals down a crack where the sun don't shine - I have broken up more than one piece that was already a miniature or less. It's for science :-). And for Mindat.

25th Jan 2017 01:40 UTCDonald B Peck Expert

Hi Scott, I share your problem . . . often. I don't think there is an easy answer. One of the variables is where you live. I moved from a house where I had a full basement to an apartment, Believe me, stuff I kept before, I no longer can. In fact I had to selll most of my collection. The upshot is that if I cannot break it down, I don't keep it. I do believe in Neil Yedlin's dictum, "If it will not fit in a standard micro box, get a bigger box". I think your approach is a good one.

25th Jan 2017 03:30 UTCScott Braley

Taking a pic is a great idea. I will do so in the future!

I don't worry about it fitting specifically in a micro box - I have plenty of baseball sized micros! It's when they are much larger than that that I worry. I may need to start a thread about "biggest micros" - I have a couple contenders!

25th Jan 2017 12:18 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Tony,

I do the same with even very small pieces to expose an area better and have had mostly luck.

Scott,

I think Donald said something important, if one moves and the really large pieces with only a small pocket will probably not come along. I keep in mind that with a very large piece but only a small pocket of interest, will I ever look at the pocket in the big piece again? If it is not the case, better to attempt breakage to fit into something I can easily look at again. Also, you never know, may be another even nicer pocket inside.

I know many splits have gone bad but it is a choice we sometimes have to make.

25th Jan 2017 13:08 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

If I don't want to lose anything when breaking up a rock I wrap it in plastic wrap before I break it. You might lose a few crumbs through the holes produced by the splitter or hammer but it is minimal ( add more wrap as required). I see nothing wrong with using a saw or cutting a groove to control the break, or grinding off edges and corners to get a sample to fit, however purists may not like it. I think it is crazy to risk a nice crystal for the sake of not having any cut marks.

26th Jan 2017 01:57 UTCDonald B Peck Expert

I agree with you, Riener; however, if I can I do try to hide the cut mark. Often it is only the last cut that could be seen anyway.

And Rolf, I take your point on never again looking in a vug in a large rock. But then, how many micro boxes go into a drawer or case and are never opened again? Or for the macro collector - - how many buckets or flats of field collected material are stored in sheds, garages, or basements and never looked at again. We are not alone! :)-D

26th Jan 2017 04:06 UTCWayne Corwin

I have had good success saving small to even medium pockets from damaged by filling them with either Elmer’s glue (ok if it's a small pocket, because of the time for the glue to dry) or better I use epoxy and dissolve it after with acetone.

All the little crystals stay in place, and unless I cracker it right thru the pocket, it almost always survives whole.

I've used this on delicate flat, not pocket, specimens also but haven't tried it on pockets over 2 inches yet

26th Jan 2017 04:31 UTCDoug Schonewald

Don,

I've used an electric engraving tool with a carbide tip to chip away the visible cut mark on a specimen if I didn't want it to show. It works pretty good, but there might be a better tool out there that will do the same job. I doubt if there is one less expensive, and it is worth having one. They make a tiny batter powered one and a 120v corded engraver. Both are under $10 USD

26th Jan 2017 12:32 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Donald,

I know your point with putting micro boxes away and not looking at them but there is another side also. I was gifted a big micro collection of many hundreds of specimens a few years ago and they form the base of a sub collection in my mineral room. I do get those out at least once a year and go through many of them, just to see them again. I think they were as you had said, stored away by the original mounter and gifted to our friend after the original owner passed away. Our fiend, not being a micro mounter passed them onto us. I looked at every one over a time and about 1/4 of the collection went into my room, the rest, as you said, went into the shed. Only reason they have not passed along to others is that the little boxes are not cheap anymore so I plan to "dismount" the ones not saved when I need boxes. Those are mostly unlabeled pieces or duplicates of duplicates.

I think there are dozens of photos from that collection on my page, some were absolutely great pieces.

26th Jan 2017 12:42 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Donald,

Addendum, if you put in Fred Ferrar on my page, as I just did, there were 35 photos of the micros, some very nice to look at again, including Fred's gallstone.

26th Jan 2017 18:35 UTCScott Braley

Donald - it's those flats of field-collected material that I'm trying to go through now. I figure I have about 70% of my collection ready to catalog, and about 15% actually cataloged. I'm trying to be harsh about what I keep.

Wayne - that is an outstanding idea. For a largish pocket I'd worry about epoxy and heating. I have some material that I'm going to try out this idea with and see how it goes.

Douglas - I haven't tried it, but a needle scaler is a tool I've heard of people using. Once I'm through the organizing and cataloging I may need to go back and "beautify", so I may pick one up to try out. I mostly just do a quickie mount and, as I noted, don't worry much about saw marks and such.

Rolf and Donald - part of why I'm doing this effort is that I want to pare my collection down to <10000 pieces(!) that might get looked at more than once a decade. It's been a fun effort - I'm seeing stuff I'd forgotten I had, and now that I'm getting into the photography, they get cued up there!

I'm glad I gave in to the impulse to post this thread, I was mostly just voicing my anxieties :) but there's been some good tips!

26th Jan 2017 19:13 UTCWayne Corwin

Scott

I actually find the epoxy works best, sometimes Elmer's (or any white glue) besides taking longer to dry, it can shrink and pull on crystals a bit, tho I only had one crystal pulled off and wreck a specimen.... so far ;-)

Oh,,, and as for seeing a saw mark,,, I'd rather see a saw mark and a wonderful intact specimen than hear "I wish I could of showed you the best one,,, but it blew all apart,,, nothing good left".

:-D

26th Jan 2017 19:39 UTCDon Saathoff Expert

For Cookie & I whatever works to get the specimen down to perky or micro box size will be used. Trim saw, spliter, careful chisel work, Dremel, horse hoof trimmers, tile trimmers, etc - we've always tried to use whatever tool to do the job. Saw kerf on a specimen has never bothered either of us as long as that xl we kept the specimen for is still intact!!

Don S.

26th Jan 2017 20:19 UTCJim Daly

I have a 1" diamond blade that I use with a flexible shaft tool or Dremel. A few years ago, I recommended this to a friend. I later thought of something else, and sent another e-mail, telling him not to cut all the way through the specimen- break the last bit mechanically, with a trimmer. I got back an e-mail- "Too late!"

Jim

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