Log InRegister
Home PageAbout MindatThe Mindat ManualHistory of MindatCopyright StatusWho We AreContact UsAdvertise on Mindat
Donate to MindatCorporate SponsorshipSponsor a PageSponsored PagesMindat AdvertisersAdvertise on Mindat
Learning CenterWhat is a mineral?The most common minerals on earthInformation for EducatorsMindat Articles
Minerals by PropertiesMinerals by ChemistryAdvanced Locality SearchRandom MineralRandom LocalitySearch by minIDLocalities Near MeSearch ArticlesSearch GlossaryMore Search Options
Search For:
Mineral Name:
Locality Name:
Keyword(s):
 
The Mindat ManualAdd a New PhotoRate PhotosLocality Edit ReportCoordinate Completion ReportAdd Glossary Item
Mining CompaniesStatisticsThe ElementsUsersBooks & MagazinesMineral MuseumsMineral Shows & EventsThe Mindat DirectoryDevice Settings
Photo SearchPhoto GalleriesNew Photos TodayNew Photos YesterdayMembers' Photo GalleriesPast Photo of the Day Gallery
bannerbannerbannerbannerbannerbanner

Morenosite?

Posted by Reiner Mielke  
avatar
Reiner Mielke October 03, 2012 12:12AM
http://www.mindat.org/photo-490097.html wrong color for morenosite looks more like honessite to me. Besides morenosite is extremely water soluble ( as soluble as halite) should be easy enough to test for that.
avatar
Uwe Kolitsch October 10, 2012 10:10AM
Message sent.
avatar
Mark Heintzelman October 10, 2012 03:45PM
Noticed other Millerites at this locale where the suggestion of the nickel secondary is Morenosite. I also do note that Honessite is not on the species list for this site, even though it would appear that the Millerite is commonly altered to a secondary weathering product here.

Honessite preudos of Millerite are common at other localities, and Morensonite not so (Reiner's observation is sound), but I would suggest referring to published report of this site for making any additional changes. My gut says Honessite too, the coloration of Morenosite is usually edging more towards the bluish, but it's hardly a definitive observation. This may be a situation that Honessite is indeed present only on the dumps, and not reported insitu.


MRH



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2012 03:57PM by Mark Heintzelman.
avatar
Alfredo Petrov October 10, 2012 04:06PM
As Reiner pointed out, morenosite is very soluble in water, so it should be easy to distinguish from honessite. Morenosite pseudomorphs after millerite would seem to be quite unlikely.
avatar
Jolyon & Katya Ralph October 10, 2012 04:26PM
Green coatings on millerite should not be assigned to a particular mineral unless analytical work is done.

Some from Wales that were analysed proved to be mostly gypsum.

Jolyon
avatar
Steve Stuart October 10, 2012 04:45PM
I relied on the ID from Jordi Fabre, which has been carried over to the Mindat gallery. I'll be happy to delete morenosite rom the photo.
avatar
Uwe Kolitsch October 10, 2012 05:50PM
I suggest to ask Jordi Fabre how the ID was made.
avatar
Steve Stuart October 10, 2012 06:04PM
I'll e-mail him tonight, when I get home from work. I'll also break off a small piece and immerse it in hot water to check solubility.
avatar
Reiner Mielke October 10, 2012 11:22PM
No need to use hot water, cold water works just as well.
avatar
Steve Stuart October 11, 2012 01:41AM
So far (after two hours) no discernible solubility observed. I use hot water to hasten the process; it's cold now!
avatar
Steve Stuart October 11, 2012 02:07AM
Here is a link that allows on-line reading of the primary reference for the Eugenia Mine. There are two occurrences of "morenosita" in the 138-page book. See pages 114 and 121. Can anyone translate?

http://www.ebookdb.org/reading/3613623B257F271410171269/Minerals-I-Mines-De-La-Conca-De-Bellmunt-Del-Priorat

Steve
avatar
Alfredo Petrov October 11, 2012 03:08AM
Steve, page 113-114 just say that the green stuff could be jamborite or hydrohonessite, but that there wasn't a large enough quantity for optimum analysis and so some other species can't be ruled out; and previous literature used to indiscriminately and erroneously describe every green mineral there as morenosite.
Then p 121 just puts morenosite on the list as "rare" at the Eugenia mine.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2012 03:15AM by Alfredo Petrov.
avatar
Chris Mavris October 11, 2012 07:09AM
Rio delle Marne (Parma Province) has provided millerite associated or coated by green mineral, attributed to jamborite. Refer to the following publication for the finding: Adorni F. (1988) - I minerali della idrotermalite del Rio delle Marne, (PR) - Rivista Mineralogica Italiana, Milano, fasc. 3, pp. 83-90
I am not sure whether the author himself describes the phase as jamborite in this work, not whether (and how) it has been determined. What I can tell is that people from the local mineral club had literally tens of these specimens. At the time, I had found quite a few myself, as well...

Also in Bologna there was a similar finding.

Here are a few examples:
http://www.mindat.org/photo-197020.html
http://www.mindat.org/photo-196944.html
http://www.mindat.org/photo-196587.html
http://www.mindat.org/photo-196577.html
avatar
Reiner Mielke October 11, 2012 03:44PM
The water test for sure rules out morenosite, if morenosite the green coating would have dissolved almost instantly. The label on the photo needs to be changed.
avatar
Uwe Kolitsch October 11, 2012 03:54PM
Done.
avatar
Steve Stuart October 11, 2012 07:50PM
I was planning to do that tonight. No need to correct my own errors in the Mindat world!
avatar
Steve Stuart November 27, 2012 03:37AM
I received a response from Jordi Fabre to my inquiry about the morenosite ID for the green coating. He sent me the original label from the Folch collection with morenosite as the ID. He also indicates that Joan Abella has done further analyses of the material and says that it is actually jamborite.

Regards,

Steve
avatar
JOAN ABELLA CREUS November 27, 2012 04:14PM
Dear colleagues,

The first analyses by X-ray diffraction that we realize, indicated Jamborita, with low intensity peaks. In a few days we will realize new analyses, with a new equipment of diffraction of X-rays, for to confirm the nature of the Jamborita of Eugenia Mine Bellmunt del Priorat, Tarragona, Spain.

The Morenosita qualified erroneously many years ago for chemical methods, in samples of possible Jamborite covered with gypsum!.

Best regards.

Joan Abella i Creus

avatar
Uwe Kolitsch November 28, 2012 04:10PM
Jamborite is now considered a questionable species.

Mills, S.J., Christy, A.G., Genin, J.-M.R., Kameda, T., Colombo, F. (2012): Nomenclature of the hydrotalcite supergroup: natural layered double hydroxides. Mineralogical Magazine, 76, 1289-1336.
(...)
(4) Jamborite, carrboydite, zincaluminite, motukoreaite, natroglaucocerinite, brugnatellite and muskoxite are identified as questionable species which need further investigation in order to verify their structure and composition.
(...)
avatar
Ian Jones November 28, 2012 10:21PM
Jolyon & Katya Ralph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Green coatings on millerite should not be assigned
> to a particular mineral unless analytical work is
> done.
>
> Some from Wales that were analysed proved to be
> mostly gypsum.
>
> Jolyon


The green alteration from Wales is usually called morenosite in the literature, but I have always doubted this due to its solubility - south Wales and it's coaltips are not generally noted for their dryness.

I had a number of them analysed at the National Museum of Wales, but they were all inconclusive. As far as I know, the only definitive analysis of the green alteration from Wales proved to be nickelhexahydrite. This was on a specimen from Llanbradach Colliery that Pete Williams at the University of Western Sydney carried out for me.

generally very suspicious of references of morenosite on millerite from damp locations.
avatar
Reiner Mielke November 29, 2012 12:12AM
Hello Ian,

Interesting that you found nickelhexahydrite since it is just as soluble in water as morenosite.
avatar
Ian Jones November 29, 2012 10:20PM
Reiner Mielke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Ian,
>
> Interesting that you found nickelhexahydrite
> since it is just as soluble in water as
> morenosite.

hi reiner

didn't realise that it was as soluble as morenosite, which is interesting, but don't doubt pete william's analysis.

it is still the only definitive millerite secondary identified from the south wales coalfield out of quite a number that proved inconclusive
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login



bannerbannerbannerbannerbannerbanner
Mineral and/or Locality  
Mindat.org is an outreach project of the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy, a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization. Public Relations by Blytheweigh.
Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2019, except where stated. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters.
Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us Current server date and time: February 19, 2019 04:54:34
Go to top of page