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Improving Mindat.orgDarkening of the uploaded pics

20th Apr 2017 20:53 UTCŁukasz Kruszewski Expert

Hi. I've uploaded a few photos today and I am sure that the "Mindat upload system" makes them darker than they are. I am especially conerned about this one: https://www.mindat.org/photo-816793.html. Is there any bug within?


Best,


Luke K.

20th Apr 2017 21:37 UTCAM Mizunaka 🌟 Expert

Had an issue with this image as well. Darker and off color.

https://www.mindat.org/photo-816540.html


It looks ok when viewing in Chrome. Problem appears when viewing the image in Firefox.

21st Apr 2017 00:34 UTCMartin Rich Expert

Not long ago, there was a discussion on mindat about this. If I remember correct it has to do with the adjustment of the camera or photo editing software. If the adjustment is set on AdobeRGB instead of sRGB this could be cause a colour shift.

21st Apr 2017 00:38 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager

Hi Lukasz


I have noticed a few very dark ones uploaded in the last few days - So dark I would not have approved them in the first place.

I use Windows, Chrome and Firefox as an alternate.


I cannot say that I have noticed Mindat making them darker. I think I would have to upload a photo personally to check this. I'll try on the when I am planning to take some photos.


Cheers


Keith

21st Apr 2017 08:16 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

816793: can you post the original photo also in this thread, just to see if it appears brighter then?

21st Apr 2017 23:16 UTCŁukasz Kruszewski Expert

Uh, uh, which one was it.... (-; Maybe this one:

sorry - will try to convert to JPG and upload it later.



I am sure the pics I have are way more bright that here on Mindat (or, rather/maybe, the Chrome/Firefox etc.?); I am uploading them also to Facebook, and they are OK.


P.S.: same problem today.

24th Apr 2017 02:55 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

Some of my photos have come up a bit darker than set in the past, though my adjustments are usually pretty basic: cropping, brightness and contrast, never noticed an Adobe option.

26th Apr 2017 20:26 UTCRonald J. Pellar Expert

Don't worry about the AdobeRGB or sRGB options. Both Windows and Apple have color management built in and will properly convert between color spaces. When the image is converted to a particular format, e.g., JPEG, the format usually has a predefined color space that the color management software will convert to. I have always used JPEG to upload and have never noticed this problem. It seems to be a recent problem that has popped up during the recent bug fixes that Jolyon is working on. I suspect that when he is done these problems will go away.

2nd May 2017 17:47 UTCŁukasz Kruszewski Expert

Just tried with Mozilla Firefox - same story. Mindat is doing sth wrong with pictures while uploading. Please fix it.

2nd May 2017 19:03 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

05603620016058870857415.png
Left is the mindat photo page, right is your original image as viewed in the browser.


2nd May 2017 19:06 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

The problem appears to be your image has been uploaded without an embedded color profile, so the system assumes it is sRGB. If you have been editing your files in AdobeRGB, ProPhoto or any other different profile then your image WILL look darker when viewed in a browser that has to guess what your image profile should be.


Make sure that you are including the embedded profile and mindat should handle it fine.


Jolyon

2nd May 2017 20:52 UTCŁukasz Kruszewski Expert

Jolyon, agreed, but I am uploading pics to Mindat for some years and I didn't have this problem before. Also, I've compared today pics with the ones opened in my computers' Windows Photo Viewer, and there is a large difference...


Cheers,


Luke

2nd May 2017 22:24 UTCŁukasz Kruszewski Expert

Btw, the pics I do are not edited in any of such programmes like Adobe P. They are exactly the same as they were before the problem started appearing. So I assume sth must have changed rather here on Mindat.

3rd May 2017 07:36 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Well, as I showed, the original photo + the photo page appear identical to me, so I am really not sure what we are doing wrong!

3rd May 2017 17:12 UTCŁukasz Kruszewski Expert

This is really strange... My comparison shows a large reduction of brightness when compared between Mindat-uploaded and Windows-opened file(s)...

3rd May 2017 18:25 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Open your image in Chrome and see what it looks like

3rd May 2017 19:05 UTCRonald J. Pellar Expert

Uploading photos in JPEG do not present any problems that I can see. The JPEG format has a predefined color space and needs no embeddec profile. You might try converting one of your photos to JPEG and uploading to see if you still have the problem.

3rd May 2017 19:20 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

09148640016058870868638.jpg
Ok, that's interesting but not what we see in practice.


Here I have taken the same image and saved it twice, both times without any embedded profile.


FIrstly, this is the image when the working colour space in Photoshop is sRGB.




Now, exactly the same image, except in Photoshop I have converted the image to the AdobeRGB profile, and again saved it with no embedded profile

03134880015652513631428.jpg





So, as you can see, it DOES make a difference what color space you're working in if you save JPEG files without an embedded proifile.

3rd May 2017 23:04 UTCŁukasz Kruszewski Expert

These pics look almost exactly the same to me...

4th May 2017 19:16 UTCRonald J. Pellar Expert

Jolyon,


The sRGB color space has a smaller gamut than AdobeRGB and converting sRGB to AdobeRGB should have NO effect whatsoever. (This is why I recommend that the DSLR space within the camera should be AdobeRGB) When converted to JPEG, the color space is also converted to YCrCb color space which is an old TV transmission color space and has a gamut similar to sRGB but is a smaller gamut than AdobeRGB. There should be no change in image appearance in the test you conducted and I do not see any difference on my monitor.


I suspect the lightness/darkness problem may be related to gamma. The sRGB and YCrCb color space are for a gamma of 2.2. Some older Mac displays used a gamma of 1.8. The color values adjusted for a gamma 1.8 display will look darker when viewed on a gamma 2.2 display. This was a major problem for the early projection displays used with a Mac, but it is my understanding that the newer Macs have changed their gamma to 2.2 and should no longer have this problem.
 
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