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Identity HelpYellow fluorite, Morocco - locality?

18th Feb 2012 19:17 UTCHenry Barwood

At Tucson, I obtained some yellow fluorite cubes on a matrix that appears to be quartz and fibrous anhydrite. They were only labeled as "Morocco". They appear to have been recently collected. Any suggestions as to a more precise locality?

18th Feb 2012 19:31 UTCTomasz Praszkier Manager

Can you post some photos?

Tomek

18th Feb 2012 19:38 UTCRonald John Gyllenhammer Expert

Hi Henry,

Might be from Aouli. Maybe you can compare yours to others from there. http://www.mindat.org/loc-11606.html

Ron

18th Feb 2012 19:47 UTCTomasz Praszkier Manager

May be from many localities but definitively not Aouli - there is no fluorite in Aouli :-) Everyone use wrong this name... Real locality is Sidy Ayed (about 1 hour drive from Aouli). Other localities with yellow fluorites are: Sidi Said, El Hammam, Hameda etc.

Without photo it is impossible to say...

Tomek

18th Feb 2012 19:50 UTCRonald John Gyllenhammer Expert

Thanks Tomasz. El Hammam possibly?

18th Feb 2012 20:05 UTCTomasz Praszkier Manager

There is yellow fluorite there but who knows about this one??

18th Feb 2012 22:25 UTCPeter Seroka

Hi Tom - your statement is not correct.

"May be from many localities but definitively not Aouli - there is no fluorite in Aouli. Everyone use wrong this name... "

Yes, there has been a lot of yellow and brownish fluorite from Aouli

Aouli is a wide stretched lead and zinc deposit, divided in the Aouli-Group, the Sidi-Ayad-Group, the Outat-Group, the Sidi-Said-Group and the Ansegmir-Group.

In Aouli, there are several veins (in French: Filon). Those are ; Filon Henri, Filon Bou Adil, Filon Edmont and other, smaller ones. In all those Aouli veins Fluorite has been / is present; the main color of the fluorite is yellow, very often associated with quartz (rarely amethyste), baryte, galenite and/ or sphalerite.

In the 1970s; when i lived in Morocco, I have personally obtained a lot of almost 300 yellow fluorite specimen from the Bou Adil-Vein, which had been recovered underground; crystals were from 1-3 cm. Very beautiful combinations of this vein are honey-yellow fluorites with light-violet amethyst - very attractive.

Best regards

Peter

(If you like to know more about fluorite and other minerals in Aouli and the whole of Maroc, then have a look at: Notes et Memoires No. 87, Geologie des Gites Mineraux Marocains; (Agard, Bouladon, Destombes, Horon, etc etc.9

18th Feb 2012 22:37 UTCHenry Barwood

It sounds like it will be impossible to pin down an exact location from appearance only. I'm using the fluorite for spectroscopy and about half of the specimens have spectra that are different from the others. This suggests multiple veins/deposits. Unfortunately, the dealer did not supply details on the specimens.

18th Feb 2012 22:58 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager

But Henry ...

How about some photos so then we can at least see what you have there

Cheers

19th Feb 2012 01:38 UTCHenry Barwood

Keith,

I'll see what I can do. My photo posting to Mindat is a bit lacking. The specimens are totally unexceptional. If it were not for the unusual luminescence, I wouldn't even take a second look at them

19th Feb 2012 11:17 UTCTomasz Praszkier Manager

Peter,

thanks for information but this is very strange... I examined tens of miners and diggers for last 15 years and ALL told me that beside of vein fluorite and sulphides in crystals there was nothing good quality in Aouli. Of course if you use term Aouli = Mines des Aouli than it covers everything in the area. But this is wrong because this was name of company, not locality. In my knowledge yellow fluorites from the area are from Sidi Ayed (with malachite, azurite and baryte) and Sidi Said (with baryte and quartz).

I also examined in person mine and veins in Aouli George and never saw good fluorites there...

Tomek

19th Feb 2012 11:34 UTCTomasz Praszkier Manager

Peter, one more question - can you post photos of this fluorites on amethyst?

Tomek

19th Feb 2012 16:20 UTCPeter Seroka

Hi Tom

no, thats wrong. Aouli has not been the name of a company. Aouli is the name of a Berber settlement of the 19th century with its own Kasbah. The miner's village, owned by a French mining company, was called "Tazensout". The company's name was "Societé des Mines d'Aouli" , named after the Berber selttlement.

Aouli is the official historic, geographic and geologic name of the deposit between Ksar Aouli and the Oued Ansegmir. As a genuine ore deposit, or an ore province, of 20 x 40 km, it is composed of vein groups and vein systems as mentioned before: Aouli (with veins Henri and Bou Adil, Sidi Ayad, Sidi Said-Outat, Poulet and Ansegmir.) An alternative geografical name for the Aouli ore province is "Haute Moulaya".

When you say "you examined tens of miners and diggers for last 15 years" this does not necessarily mean, that those miners are aware or know where to find fluorites.

I have obtained large amounts of specimen in the 1970s - thats almost 40 years ago - and I have still brought back excellent specimen in the earyl 1990s (thats abou 20 years ago). I assume, its very obvious, that younger people in Midelt, Mibladen or like you, or lets say another generation, do not know anymore, where the top fluorites came from. One of the very original knowledgeable miners passed away in 1997. I also understand, that you have not seen any good fluorite specimen there : The good ones came out 30-50 years, before you went to Morocco. They came out at the final phase of mining operations, from the 300-400 m levels. (By the way: have you examined the veins at 60-100 m depth ?)

The very best specimen and the largest xtls are from Sidia Tias and from the veins in Ansegmir, found in the 1980s.

Very good material and nice combinations are from Sidi Said, Sidi Ayad and Ansegmir (found in the 1960 - 1970s).

In the veins of Aouli, Fluorit also appeared in pale violet and pale green cubes, together with pink Baryte, Quartz, Galenite and, very are, with Azurite.

At the end of the 1990s, there was a spectacular find of dark violet hexaedrons, combined with dodecaedrons, with crystals up to 3 cm, from the veins of Aouli.

To cut al long story short: Aouli is a genuine ore deposit or an ore province, named after the Aouli schist massif, with the ore veins in Aouli (Bou Adil, André, Edmont, Henri, Engil, Fréderic, Electrique, Virgile, Quart, Entre-deux-ponts, Ou-Berri, La Centrale); Poulet: (Georges, Poulet, Baroud, Marteau, Chameaux; Sidi Ayad: (El HAssir, Ti-Sidi.Ouine, Marabout; Sidi Said-Outat: (26,27,33,40); Ansegmitr: (50,51,55, 58,62).

Only in the past, til 1975, it was more or less possible to determine the real origin of a specimen. Since the Aouli mining operations stopped in 1975, specimen miners tried to recover fluorite (and other minerals specimen) from the Aouli deposit; however, as the veins are filled by water, some of those veins could only be reached between the 60m and the 100m level.

However, from whichever vein the fluorites came - it is still and always Aouli.

Regards

Peter

19th Feb 2012 17:11 UTCTomasz Praszkier Manager

Peter, can you post any photos of these? very interesting story.

I only disagree to name Sidi Ayed and Sidi Said as Aouli. Similar origin of the deposits, host rocks and age of mineralization do not change that. Name of locality is just geographical name. Now everyone say Aouli meaning Sidi Ayed fluorites. This places are about 15-20km one from another and about 1hour drive. Even if they were mined by the same company this mean nothing. Also Mibladen was mined by Societé des Mines d'Aouli but you will never call it Aouli. Aouli is a settlement in George of Aouli and only deposit there should be named "Aouli".

Tomek

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