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Generalmassive crystals found in warwick new york

12th Oct 2010 01:48 UTCGlenn Rhein

Massive ampibole crystals found in Warwick, New York. Any feedback or comments welcomed.

12th Oct 2010 02:49 UTCSaul Krotki Expert

I see two different species.

The first gives the impression of being a feldspar. Perhaps, oligoclase.

What is the geological setting? What kind of area are you working? Rock types?

Please give the size of the crystals in addition to finger length! More, more. This is very exciting especially considering the usual disappointing black toothpick crystals from Warwick, warwickite!

12th Oct 2010 04:03 UTCDavid H. Garske

Look tetragonal-Scapolite group.


12th Oct 2010 04:06 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


The first one looks like scapolite from Bancroft, Ontario. Be careful, many field collectors dumped rock all over Southern New York and Northern New Jersey that they collected at other locations, including Canada.

Chet Lemanski of Mindat can help you on this one; he is an wxpert on the area. If it is real, congratulations.



12th Oct 2010 04:39 UTCRay Hill Expert

these look like they are from a peg, and actually do resemble some of the stuff I found at the Hwy 62 roadcut in Bancroft

13th Oct 2010 01:45 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks for all the help everyone,

The town required a geologist for a subdivison of property my brother and I had bought.A lthough he did not find anything, he did say the area was rich with rare minerals. I started looking and found nothing but after a couple of years of living on the property I eventually found a small trail of crystals that led me to this find.

They were definately not dumped here. I dug them up from under the roots of a hundred year old oak. There are about twenty boulder size groups and over a thousand pieces. large crystals are up to 12 inches long. I'm hearing words like scapalite, felspar, uvite, flourapitite,clintonite, anphiboles and hornblende.

I'm learning fast. The property is mostly marble and granite rich in iron. Here are some more pictures.


13th Oct 2010 02:12 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Glen, nice finds first off!!

The possibility of agerine/augite and hedenburgite may fit your finds. Check after cleaning for any fluorescence as some scapolite may give a response also..


13th Oct 2010 04:09 UTCHershel Friedman

Hi Glen,

I am a collector very familiar with the area, and I would have to agree with David that this is Scapolite. There is a very similar piece of Scapolite exhibited in the Bear Mountain museum that originates from Twin Ponds near Monroe, which encompasses the same geological setting (Reading Prong/Highlands Region). I have also personally collected Scapolite similar to yours (although smaller) in a one-time find near Amity.

You can also check for fluorescence. My piece of Scapolite from nearby Amity fluoresces a very faint whitish color - that can be a clear indicator.

Large Diopside and Hedenbergite crystals that crystallize similarly also come from this region, but these are greener in color whereas the scapolite is off-white. It is definitely not Feldspar as these form as more crude easily-identifiable habits in the area. (In fact, my Scapolite specimen from Amity came associated together with Feldspar and the contrast was easily discernible.)

I have many other minerals from this region and would be interested in swapping with your if you are interested.

- Hershel

13th Oct 2010 05:29 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


If I may ask, what do you intend to do with the specimens? Donate them, sell them, trade them? I personally would be interested in a fist sized crystal or specimen of each mineral. Either way, you should have local experts take a look at them. Folks at the Franklin or Sterling Hill Mining Museum can help as can Chet Lemanski, Steve Kuitems and others in the area.



14th Oct 2010 00:00 UTCGlenn Rhein

picture # 1 Fluorapitie ? 2 1/2 inches wide and 3 1/2 long

#2 large felspar crystal is about 12 inchs wide lined with smaller crystals

# 3 14 inch granite pepered with sphene ? flat hard crystal.

Not sure what I'm going to do with them yet.

Some to a museumn for sure

14th Oct 2010 02:05 UTCScott Galbraith

It would be my dream to live somewhere and find some of my own crystals like that. Those are huge and invaluable.

14th Oct 2010 02:56 UTCGlenn Rhein

The scapalite crystals fluoresces a bright pinkish red. the surounding granite also fluoresces the same color. Does that mean the white in the granite is scapalite ? Areas around the crystals had black coarse sand. was he scapalite sucked out of the granite to form the crystals leaving the black coarse sand?

some of the granite is hard and some of it just crumbles.

Thanks for all your comments.

14th Oct 2010 03:09 UTCHershel Friedman

Hi Glenn,

I live in nearby Rockland County, New York, and am always studying the surrounding deposits of the Ramapo Mountains and Highlands area. I would love to take a look at what you've found and help identify them, as well as check out the deposit. You can email me at hershel@minerals.net.

In regards to your new set of photos, fluorapatite has definitely been found in the area, and it is usually associated with calcite, diopside, and scapolite. That photo for the fluorapatite is a bit fuzzy. Fluroapatite crystals are usually glossier than the other area crystals. This is how they look in the area - this one is from Twin Lakes right off Route 6 in Harriman State Park:

The second photo definitely looks like Feldspar - quite a large feldpar crystal for the area! That one should definitely go to a museum! It looks like it is associated together with scapolite as the smaller crystals though - check their fluorescence. The scapolite I found at Amity is also associated with a large feldspar crystal.

The third photo gives a hint at titanite/sphene, but I have never seen such large crystals in the area. It also looks like it may be dodecahedral, so perhaps dodecahedral magnetite (i.e. similar to that found in the olden days at Monroe?) Are the crystals flattened or dodecahedral? Are they attracted to magnets?

14th Oct 2010 10:07 UTCRay Hill Expert

You definitely have made a significant find for your area, and it might still yield other specimens if you wish to continue digging

Use care though, as it is so easy to damage good crystals in a moment of haste , which cannot be repaired in the time that


You should be most proud of your find and as mentioned, you might want to offer the larger ones to a local museum

so that others can become inspired to collect in your general area...as a result of your good fortune.

14th Oct 2010 15:49 UTCJim Chenard

Glenn, Great find for the area. These things can still be found up there, since the entire marble belt from the NJ line to Mt Adam and Eve is mineralized. Would love to know the outcome as more pieces are found, and if you have a nice small cabinet piece, let me know, after Joe picks. I have additional information here on the region. Again, great find, and keep on digging.

14th Oct 2010 17:04 UTCEarl Verbeek Expert

Hi Glenn,

I've just talked to Dick Hauck, president of Sterling Hill Mining Museum in Ogdensburg, and he's asked me to follow up on this. Our museum would be interested in obtaining a good crystal group from this find, as the two ore deposits here -- the zinc mines at Franklin and Sterling Hill -- are in the Franklin Marble, the same geological unit that continues northward to the Warwick area. We've found specimens similar to yours here at Sterling Hill, with crystal groups weathered out of the original marble. This is an exciting find. As a geologist and part-time mineralogist I would also love to visit the locality, take some photographs (if allowed), and help you identify any remaining unknowns. We're only a short drive away.

Cheers- Earl

14th Oct 2010 21:22 UTCGlenn Rhein

My cell phone number is 845-551-0484

I'm certainly interested in what they are and ideas of what to do with them

Thanks , Glenn

14th Oct 2010 22:14 UTCRay Hill Expert

Once again, Mindat works...a museum willing to help one on one and place a specimen in their collection...

that is not only amazing, but it reinforces all that I believe about the power of this medium and this site. wh

Glenn, you might want to have a close look at what you have and make some choices about which specimens

you personally like the best and set them aside and do not give them away...this isn't selfish, but it will save you grief

later on, after having collected for a while...I have some regrets myself in this arena, and only suggest this

to save you from the same regrets later on. You cannot find them twice, so keeping what you like now is only

good planning.Have fun and good luck.

14th Oct 2010 23:24 UTCScott Galbraith

Wow, Glenn, people really want those rocks! I'd keep them if I were you. Maybe you should keep the location confidential also.

14th Oct 2010 23:59 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


I would like to pat myself on the back and state that I was the person that called Dick Hauck at the Sterling Hill Mining Museum yesterday and suggested they check out the minerals and the find. Thanks to Mindat, as you stated, something positive might come out of this.

As for Scott's statements, we already know the area in which the crystals were found, it's no secret and many of us East Coast collectors have specimens from that area. Scott, if Glenn keeps them all for himself, what would be the purpose? The best way to preserve a find is to keep some for yourself and distribute the rest. The main objective is to get them into a local museum because of the scientific value. Now let's be realistic, the crystals are ugly and are not blue, green, red, orange, yellow or purple and are not transparent. If Glenn wants to give them a nice home and Glenn can gain something from it, then science, the collector community and the museums benefit. Respectfully, I think you are missing the point of all this enthusiasm and discussion. Yes, we are excited but we are not willing to part with a lot of money to get one. If the museums get most of them, it will be fine by me. We are talking about scientific value here, not the spot price of gold or platinum.



15th Oct 2010 00:20 UTCJim Chenard

Glenn, i am sure that Sterling Hill would love some of the larger ones, as a good example of the marble minerals, and although, they are NY pieces, it is an extension of the same marble belt. Keep collecting and think it through a little. Also, the New York State Museum is an other choice to send a piece or two.

15th Oct 2010 00:37 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


This photo is meant to give you a reference point of what gem quality crystals of minerals, like the ones you found, look like from other parts of the world. Larger crystals of these specimens have been found in and off matrix. From left to right, scapolite, Afghanistan; scapolite, Africa, diopside, China and titanite (sphene), Pakistan.

Hope this helps you value your specimens before you consider departing with any of them. Again, congratulations on a nice find, considering the fact that over a century has passed since they were originally found.



15th Oct 2010 02:25 UTCGlenn Rhein

I am not a mineralogist, geologist or collector of minerals. But I am a bit of a treasure hunter and can understand the passion of going out and digging every night til dark after work for the last two months. I have put a lot of time and effort into carefully removing these crystals. There were boulders against boulders with crystals in between. Had I known the importance of what I was working with, I probably would have gotten professional help. We have been doing the best we can to remove the crystals as carefully as possible. It is what it is. If you would like to come see what is here, you can call me at 845-551-0484. I would like some to go to museums and others to collectors that appreciate them. I will keep a select few. I'll continue to post more pictures and I appreciate everyones comments. The first picture is a 600 lb. boulder covered on all sides with crystals.What do you do with a 600 lb. boulder?

15th Oct 2010 02:40 UTCLogan Babcock (2)

BEAUTIFUL!!!!! this is amazing!!! i would recommend those to a museum for "yardite" out front to draw in customers. as long as your name is on the plaques....

15th Oct 2010 02:42 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


I suggest you talk with Earl Verbeek who is representing the Sterling Hill Mining Museum in Ogdensburg, New Jersey. You might want to take a drive down there. Based on your photos I conclude that what you have found is scientifically significant which means regional museums including the New York state museum would be interested. However, I suggest you speak with Earl who can point you in the right direction; he has the knowledge and equipment to break down 600 pound boulders.

Glenn, as a mineral collector of 45 years so I am impressed with your find and thank you for bringing this to the attention of the mineral world, especially on Mindat.



15th Oct 2010 03:31 UTCScott Galbraith

You could sell the 600 lb. boulder considering there'd be many collectors out there, right? Anyways, that's in case you underestimate the value of what you have.

15th Oct 2010 14:48 UTCGlenn Rhein

Sorry we got cut off Joe, reception is bad up here.

I have to disagree with you Joe on the crsystals being ugly, yes they are not clear and shinny but they are clusterd together in a way that makes them very beautiful. They are sculptures !

Haven't figured out what the crystals are in the first picture yet.

second picture is scapalite crystals (largest is about 1-1/4 inches ) and covered with sphene

last picture is scapalite 4 inches overall

15th Oct 2010 17:38 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


I apologize for the use of the word "ugly"; we experienced collectors use the term all the time and we often refer to rare uglies. I was just trying to give you a perspective of what the better specimens of those species look like. As I said in every post, what you found is significant and valuable but they are not as valuable as gem minerals even though that have tremendous scientific value. I imagine you are looking to sell some of the specimens? If that is the case you should say so and then contact the museums and collectors I suggested you contact opr you could take out an ad on Mindat or offer them on ebay. If you intend to keep them for yourself, that is your choice. You would be surprised with how many of us have too many specimens in our collections; I have over two thousand (after 45 years) and that might be low on the scale of experienced collectors.

Whatever, choice you make is your business and I envy you for your ability to find the specimens.

Best wishes,


15th Oct 2010 17:43 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson


I have collected the Warwick/Amity area for several years now. I am completely surprised and amazed at your find!

I just wanted to say congratulations on the find and thank you for letting the community know about it. I agree with everyone, get some specimens to the area museums for all to enjoy!! Thanks again.


15th Oct 2010 18:11 UTCGlenn Rhein

Joe, thanks for all your comments.

I'm not looking to sell them or put them on ebay.

I'm looking for help as what is the right thing to do with them.

I'm looking to give people like yourself the opportunity to come see what I've found and view some very special pieces.

I don't want people digging in my back yard and wandering around in the middle of the night with SW lights

or being pressured into selling them. Yes at some point they will be available to collectors. I'm not keeping them unless I start a museum (not happening)

I would like this to be a good experience for all , am I unrealistic ?

Pictures are all of one boulder, there are seven boulders over 600 lbs


15th Oct 2010 19:07 UTCPeter Andresen Expert

Hi Glenn,

I suport, and encourage you to donate what you don't want to keep for yourself to a museum. The best (by monitary value) sample I ever found, I donated to our national museum of mineralogy, and it made me proud, it still makes me proud :) That's a feeling that can't be counted in dollars, and I was offered quite some for the sample... I hope one day to get a kid, and to bring her or him to the museum and do som bragging! :D

15th Oct 2010 21:49 UTCGlenn Rhein

For you fluorescent guys, here are some of the colors

scapolite and scarn are pinkish red

the blue and yellow are in the marble

18th Oct 2010 14:25 UTCPhil Walsh

This is not related to the crystals shown here, but is sbout a related subject(?). In 1972 I had the oportunity to collect in this area; Warwick, Amity,Vernon etc. One thing I managed to collect a few of and haven't heard or seen any comment about is the quartz in the narrow limestone belt that seems to run from about "Prices Switch, N.J." through New Milford, NY to about Wickham Village, NY. Right under the Warwick High School. The crystals that I have found are rather varied and interesting. No pictures as I don't own a camera. Sorry. Some are typical in style, but others at first look like double terminated crystals. They're not. In the center can be found a very tiny (about 1 mm) crystal of dolomite that seems to have acted as a seed for the quartz to grow on. The quartz in maximum diameter is about 3mm, length up to about 50mm, and they are tapered toward the terminations. I say they are not double terminated because on some of them the faces don't line up at the dolomite crystal. I never had the chance to look but I was told by a much older and more experienced collector that "goshenite" could be found around mt. Peter near Bellvale which is only a few miles from Warwick. This thread about Warwick got me thinking because I had the opportunity to collect there for a few days long ago. It is a very nice area. My appologies for changing the subject. One never knows what will trigger old memories.

19th Oct 2010 01:00 UTCGlenn Rhein

These large micas are also on the property

19th Oct 2010 01:42 UTCHershel Friedman

Looks like Phlogopite. That would indeed indicate that this locality is within the Franklin Marble zone. And although the iron mines in Warwick are outside the marble zone, these probably come from the western side of Warwick

19th Oct 2010 16:25 UTCGreg Kokolus


Congratulations on your find.

You seem like you are a knowledgeable collector who under the circumstances could use some on-site help in assessing the nature of your find.

I hope that I am not speaking improperly here, but I think that this person might be Alfredo Petrov.

His expertise is respected within the mineral commmunity and I believe that he lives in Peekskill NY when not travelling the world.

You're getting alot of varying opinions on your good fortune and I think he could be invaluable in surveying the location if he were to agree to the undertaking.


Greg Kokolus

20th Oct 2010 02:45 UTCGlenn Rhein

Black crystals are in a marble matrix, most of the other crystals were found alongside but not in the marble

20th Oct 2010 12:22 UTCRock Currier Expert

The last two appear to be perhaps limonite pseudomorphs after pyrite.

20th Oct 2010 13:25 UTCGlenn Rhein

Fluorapatite crystals grouped up together. first piece is about 10 inches wide

20th Oct 2010 16:47 UTCScott Galbraith

Thanks for sharing the photos, Glenn. You're a good guy who sees the real value of what you have in your willingness to share.

It seems like you already had all the fun in discovering and recovering all of the crystals. That was a good idea.

20th Oct 2010 19:30 UTCSteven Chamberlain Expert

Hi Glenn,

This is Steve Chamberlain, coordinator of the Center for Mineralogy at the New York State Museum. I would guess that the scapolite is probably meionite and the pyroxene is probably diopside, although chemical analysis is required to confirm this, e.g. analytical SEM analysis. Orange County was famous in the very early 1800s for producing these sort of metamorphic minerals in large crystals. A few decades later, St. Lawrence County became another source of similar material, along with adjacent areas in Ontario and Quebec.

I would hope that several of the best pieces might find their way into the collection of the NYSM. I've forwarded the url for your post to Mike Hawkins, the collections manager at the NYSM. We can also help you with definitive identification of the species, i.e. which scapolite and which pyroxene.

I imagine Mike Hawkins will be in contact in the near future.



20th Oct 2010 21:35 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


I spoke with Marian Lupulescu on the phone about a week ago and told him about the find and the mindat thread; did you speak with him?



20th Oct 2010 23:02 UTCScott Galbraith

A somewhat-related note:

There is a scapolite cluster on ebay (View Here) from Canada, that is also picture here on mindat: Found Here


20th Oct 2010 23:13 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert


How is your post even remotely on topic?

20th Oct 2010 23:41 UTCScott Galbraith

Well, indirectly it was an exercise in valuation of a scapolite cluster, but it came out like a meander. I will try to tone it down. I definitely don't want to distract Glenn from the more pertinent posts today.

21st Oct 2010 00:17 UTCSteven Chamberlain Expert


We've connected the dots... Mike Hawkins is going down next week to see the specimens. Hurrah!



21st Oct 2010 00:26 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Now that is great news!

21st Oct 2010 15:53 UTCDonald Vaughn

being a collector of New York state specimens this find has my heart all a pitter-patter >:D<

but seriously though there are so many interesting places to collect in this state if we could access them all freely two thirds of the state would be dug up :D okay maybe not. Hey Glenn your find makes me jealous.

22nd Oct 2010 02:24 UTCGlenn Rhein

Anyone have any ideas on what the green fluorescence is on this picture. It is on the side of the sphene (titanite) sample. I pictured the sample in a previous post.

22nd Oct 2010 04:41 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

Very nice specimens. A museum would be a great place for them. Even if they are not in the collection on the floor you could probably be granted some behind the scenes tours as your specimen will have your name details and information. I have some specimens in the ROM in toronto. I have contacts there that offered to let me behind the scenes if i just contact them. Pretty neat having something in a well respected museum whether or not its in displays or not.

22nd Oct 2010 05:35 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert

Hi, Glenn,

Why don't you try going to this link; it contains a color chart that shows the possible fluorescence of particular minerals.




22nd Oct 2010 05:40 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


An afterthought, I suggest you ask the New York State Museum folks to bring down a Gieger Counter; bright fluorescence could possibly indicate uranium type minerals.


22nd Oct 2010 18:05 UTCHershel Friedman

Re the green fluorescent photo you posted: This would be kind of a long stretch, but Willemite from the same Franklin Marble Belt that the specimens you found are coming from fluoresces that same color green. However, Willemite is exclusive the zinc deposits of Franklin and Ogdensburg, so even though you are still within the marble belt, this is a long stretch. But if it is indeed Willemite that would be quite an outstanding find!

- Hershel

23rd Oct 2010 00:56 UTCGlenn Rhein

Here are some pictures of todays great finds.

they are different the the others i've been finding. host granite is more yellow and black instead of white and black.

crystals are very black and are of different shape

One of my most favorite groups so far

Thanks everyone for all the advice and help


23rd Oct 2010 14:46 UTCWayne Corwin


Could they be Augite's ?


24th Oct 2010 02:52 UTCGlenn Rhein

Three more large examples, second picture has a 7 inch feldspar on the bottom other crystals up to 3 inch diameters.

24th Oct 2010 02:58 UTCHershel Friedman

Looks very much like Diopside. Very similar to those from the Hogencamp Mine near Tuxedo.

24th Oct 2010 05:33 UTCScott Galbraith

I love the third pictured in the last round and the first pictured in the previous rounds. Those are some amazing crystals. Thanks for the photos!

24th Oct 2010 12:36 UTCGlenn Rhein

The longer thin crystals are finger size.

golf ball size scapolites in the second picture

25th Oct 2010 01:40 UTCGlenn Rhein

Today we walk along the rock walls, we've done it many times before but today we actually look at the walls. we found some great pieces. The crystals were actully concentrated in certain parts of the wall.

I guess they found crystals when plowing or clearing the fields but were not interested in collecting them, had no need for them and just put them into the wall. It gives me an idea for new collecting areas. Where I find crystals in the wall I will look perpandicular in the woods or field to that point. Figuring that they would carry the rocks the shortest distance to the wall. This theory gives me three more new sites for digging.

These are some of the pieces we found on the wall.

26th Oct 2010 00:58 UTCGlenn Rhein

The crystal in the second picture was found loose in the sand its almost seven inches.

26th Oct 2010 18:11 UTCHershel Friedman

First two of the above pictures are almost certainly Diopside. Never seen such a large single Diopside crystal as big as the 2nd one!

27th Oct 2010 00:17 UTCGlenn Rhein

My yard will never be the same, I turn over every stone and have pieces everwhere.

27th Oct 2010 08:21 UTCByron Thomas

ok ive been watching this thread and its is very cool to see this stuff makes me want to go there and see it myself. But a question has come to my mind, could this all be from an old mine that is on his property or could his property be on and old mine dump site?


27th Oct 2010 15:09 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


Have you read all of Mr. Rhein's posts, he fully describes how he found the specimens. This is an old Dana location which was heavily studied in the late 1890s and early 1900s. I hope you realize Mr. Rhein lives on the site. I contacted the New York State Museum several weeks ago and they are going to visit him soon to evaluate the significance of the find, which is substantial. Any permission to visit would have to be given by Mr. Rhein, the property owner, who is nice man and who wants to do the right thing with museums, etc. The location is a low hill which contains a contact zone between granite and/or gneiss and marble.



29th Oct 2010 02:30 UTCGlenn Rhein

Wednesday four people from the NYS Museum came down and viewed all the minerals and site. It went very well and I think they were impressed.

They would like many of the pieces for the museum and are going to do some testing on some unknowns.

We know Diopside, Scapolite, Fluorapatite, Phlogopite, Clintonite,Tremolite, Chrondrodite,Hastingsite, Hematite, K Feldspar and possibly Fluoredenite

29th Oct 2010 03:33 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


Congratulations! I'm happy the museum is involved and I look forward to seeing some of them on display at the New York State Museum with your family's name on the labels.



29th Oct 2010 10:58 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Excellent news:)-D, Glenn. Thanks for posting.

29th Oct 2010 12:08 UTCAndy Givens

Wow!! sounds awesome glenn!!!!!! thanks for keeping us informed on your finds!!!!Sounds like you are having a lot of fun! keep it up!!!!! Andy

29th Oct 2010 12:08 UTCAndy Givens

Wow!! sounds awesome glenn!!!!!! thanks for keeping us informed on your finds!!!!Sounds like you are having a lot of fun! keep it up!!!!! Andy

29th Oct 2010 13:30 UTCEarl Verbeek Expert

Glenn, looking forward to seeing you tomorrow. The specimens you are finding are reminiscent of the ones that put the Franklin Marble region "on the map" among mineralogists in the early 1800s. As more land was cleared and plowed and dug into, such crystal pockets were found here and there over the entire length of the Franklin Marble belt. We've found them here too, at Sterling Hill in Ogdensburg, NJ, just beneath the glacial sands when these were removed. Collectors of the local minerals will recall the large groups of "jeffersonite" (augite) crystals that came from here, with the largest crystal (now on display in the Franklin Mineral Museum) being about 16" long (visual estimate from hazy memory -- but it's BIG). Other minerals found in crystals more than 4" across include garnet, franklinite, scapolite, and gahnite, plus a biotite crystal (still in place) more than 12" in diameter and perhaps 18" long (hazy memory again). Spectacular stuff -- with nature having already dissolved the calcite matrix for us, leaving the crystals, somewhat altered by still perfectly formed, standing in bold relief. These are the specimens that got mineralogists of bygone days so excited. Visiting this locality will be like a step back in time.

In reference to your green-fluorescent mineral, if it's a coating I'd suspect opal (with uranyl ion activator). We have it down here, too, though it's rare. I'll look at the specimen tomorrow if it's handy....

Cheers- Earl

31st Oct 2010 00:26 UTCGlenn Rhein

Chondrodite or Uvite ? I think Chondrodite but what do I know. The crystal is about 1 and 1/2 inches wide. Yellow fluoresent

1st Nov 2010 00:48 UTCGlenn Rhein

found this today it is mica on marble but has four transluesent Greenish crystals on right side. anyone have any idea what they could be ?

I need a better camera for the close ups.

1st Nov 2010 09:33 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

Glenn Rhein Wrote:


> Chondrodite or Uvite ? I think Chondrodite but

> what do I know. The crystal is about 1 and 1/2

> inches wide. Yellow fluoresent

likely chondrodite with the graphite association. i could be wrong though.

1st Nov 2010 09:34 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

see if your camera has a setting looks like aflower. macro/super macro or something like that it will allow for more close up fotos

Glenn Rhein Wrote:


> found this today it is mica on marble but has four

> transluesent Greenish crystals on right side.

> anyone have any idea what they could be ?

> I need a better camera for the close ups.

1st Nov 2010 17:40 UTCRob Woodside Manager


2nd Nov 2010 22:52 UTCGlenn Rhein

The marble has this really nice fluorescent light blue and yellow color.

Does anyone know of a site where I can view pictures of millerite ?

2nd Nov 2010 23:32 UTCRob Woodside Manager

At the bottom of the message board page, just above "search google" is the word " mineral" with an empty box beside it. Write "Millerite" and click the upper search button. Follow the screens by clicking on your highlighted desires.

3rd Nov 2010 00:19 UTCEarl Verbeek Expert

Hi Glenn,

Nice photos of the fluorescent minerals. Blue is diopside, and yellow is norbergite (or chondrodite). Hard to tell those latter two apart, but down here in Franklin the general guideline (based on analyses by Pete Dunn in his 1995 treatise on Franklin and Sterling Hill) is to call it norbergite if the mineral is of pale yellow color in daylight and shows good fluorescence, but chondrodite if it's brown to dark brown and fluoresces poorly. However, that's only a guideline and should be treated as such. I've seen some medium-brown chondrodite(?) that fluoresces quite nicely, and conversely I've seen some very pale yellow norbergite(?) that fluoresces hardly at all. Identifying minerals down to the species level can be really difficult around here.

3rd Nov 2010 13:52 UTCGlenn Rhein

Could this be Actinolite ? White fluorescent color

3rd Nov 2010 14:54 UTCEarl Verbeek Expert

Could be actinolite, more probably tremolite. I've seen such crystal sprays before, with fluorescence as you describe.

3rd Nov 2010 14:55 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Hi Glenn,

I can't really tell from the pictures what you have there. I have never collected a piece of fluorescent Actinolite. I have Tremolite that fluoresces a cream/white color but what you have there is-to my eye, not Tremolite.

Here is a handy chart, a little outdated for you to check out.


I see Earl and I posted at the same time. I'll defer to Earl.

3rd Nov 2010 15:21 UTCHershel Friedman


That looks like the same sample I have, just with a more greener color - I am even more convinced now that its Tremolite. The iron-presence of Actinolite usually prevents it from exhibiting fluorescence, whereas Tremolite is known to strongly fluoresce a white or cream color. Further, there are documented occurrences of Tremolite from Amity, as opposed to Actinolite.

Here is a picture of radiating Tremolite from Canaan, Connecticut from John Betts (www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com).


- Hershel

4th Nov 2010 00:41 UTCGlenn Rhein

The yellow is so bright that it looks painted on, The backround which is a grey blue fluoresces for about five seconds after the sw light turns off.

Thanks everyone for your help with the Tremolite.

4th Nov 2010 01:19 UTCGlenn Rhein

The New york State Museum gang checking out the boulders. They were all very knowledgable and gave me some great advice. Thanks To all.

4th Nov 2010 04:05 UTCByron Thomas

I see heavy earth moving equipment in the background of the last photo. You planning on digging a big hole?


4th Nov 2010 12:03 UTCPeter Haas Expert

"The background which is a grey blue fluoresces for about five seconds after the sw light turns off."

The phenomenon of a delayed decay of emission after the light source has been switched off is called phosphorescence.

4th Nov 2010 14:41 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Glenn, I suspect that your phosphorescent mineral is the calcite matrix. The tremolite and norbergite are not known to phosphoresce from this region. What color is the phosphorescence?

Glad you had a good interaction with the NYSM folks.


4th Nov 2010 18:12 UTCRob Woodside Manager

Actinolite is just an Fe rich tremolite. It is a fluorescent rule of thumb that Fe kills fluorescence, so your obvious looking actinolite is tremolite!!! None of these amphiboles can be definitively labelled without chemical or crystallographic analysis, but the good guesses supported by a little evidence (fluorescence in this case) are often right.

4th Nov 2010 20:43 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

I've looked at the pictures again. I have never seen such vivid green Tremolite from this area-this being the Franklin marble belt. What I have seen is Diopside that has the fluorescent response described by Glenn.

I have plenty of self collected Tremolite in the style depicted in Herschel's post, particularly from the Franklin Quarry but none of it displays the green color depicted in Glenn's photo. Some of it has a strong UV response, some of it has no response at all.

If anyone has similar material from Amity or the surrounding area displaying cream/white fluorescence, I'd love to see it uploaded.

4th Nov 2010 21:18 UTCRob Woodside Manager

It could be diopside, the pyroboles are nasty. Xl cross sections and cleavage can separate them.

5th Nov 2010 00:10 UTCGlenn Rhein

The first two pictures are being tested the Museum guys they are not quite sure what it is, maybe fluoredenite.

The third picture is the granite in my yard it has this wonderful hot pink color fluorescence.

Being in the construction business has its perks when you need to dig and lift heavy boulders, my equipment is right here.

6th Nov 2010 23:19 UTCGlenn Rhein

Graphite butterfly,

7th Nov 2010 05:25 UTCByron Thomas

I am just astounded at what your finding there. You are soooooo lucky.


7th Nov 2010 11:59 UTCHarald Schillhammer Expert

Byron Thomas Wrote:


> I am just astounded at what your finding there.

> You are soooooo lucky.



> Byron

Yes, that is mind-boggling indeed. As a matter of fact I am pretty envious - OTOH, I wouldn't want to know what my wife would say if I treated her garden like that 8-)

9th Nov 2010 00:00 UTCGlenn Rhein

On Joe's recomendation I collected about a dozen more of those radiating tremolites, Here are a couple more and some graphite on marble.

9th Nov 2010 01:04 UTCEarl Verbeek Expert

That last photo (no. 014) is a fine example of smeared-out graphite on a slickenside (a minor fault surface). I measured hundreds of such faults underground at Sterling Hill some years back. When one side of a fault moves relative the other side, any graphite flake intersected by the fault surface becomes smeared into an elongate streak that reveals the direction of slip. If you use a hand lens you can sometimes trace a given streak back to the parent graphite flake from which it originated. With greater amounts of slip the streaks coalesce into a continuous film, but your photograph shows an early stage in that process.

9th Nov 2010 01:36 UTCMaggie Wilson Expert

I think this topic deserves "Thread of the Year" award - I have learned so much from reading the posts and I am just a wee bit jealous! Imagine! Owning a chunk of property that has this quantity of new material AND the heavy duty machinery with which to extract it!

Keep those photos coming, Glenn!


9th Nov 2010 02:57 UTCLinda Smith

I second that motion, Maggie!! What a wonderful thread and I am also a wee bet jealous. Good fortune to you Glenn.

9th Nov 2010 03:36 UTCJustin Zzyzx Expert

Or maybe, "made you so green with envy people call you kermit" thread.

9th Nov 2010 05:20 UTCCraig Mercer

Glenn I have never been so excited by a thread. Opening each group of photos along the way was an adventure within itself. Thank you for allowing us all to experience it with you.



9th Nov 2010 06:35 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

you can call bancroft or whatever area closest to you your "backyard" but until your collecting area is really your backyard we might all be a little envious.

call me Kermit!

9th Nov 2010 12:40 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert


That explanation of faulting and Graphite flakes slipping and sliding was excellent. Many thanks!

10th Nov 2010 00:29 UTCGlenn Rhein

This thing will cut anything, we are getting crazy !!!!!

10th Nov 2010 15:39 UTCWayne Corwin


We use a diamond chain saw at the Tripp Mine also !

They do work great, but new blades are expensive, it's better to use a

circular diamond saw for most of your cutting, blades are much cheeper.

2 of my YouTube videos showing both in action:

Diamond Chain Saw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNtqiY6BE9w&feature=player_embedded

Diamond Circular Saw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOsnuZRcjGM&feature=player_embedded

We are working pegmatite,, so its a bit harder,, but the Circular Diamond blades are much cheeper, and

it looks like your going to have ALOT of cutting ahead of you !

You have a great place for specimens, it will be a pleasure to see them all cleaned up ! >:D<

Best wishes with your project, hope it continues deeper, you might find less weathering deeper too.


Wayne Corwin

10th Nov 2010 21:43 UTCAndy Givens

I have to say thanks a ton for the tour Glenn. You are a very lucky man, to have all those rocks in your yard,and home. And an understanding wife too!!!!!! Being new to mineral collecting this has inspired me, and made me wanna get out more and dig more! thanks again for taking the time out to show us around. Andy

11th Nov 2010 01:27 UTCGlenn Rhein

We are headed to the NYS museum in Albany tomorrow to check out the future home of some these minerals we have been finding. Really looking forward to seeing other examples of New York State Minerals and to learn more about what we have found.

This is the Uvite or chondrodite under short wave

13th Nov 2010 01:32 UTCGlenn Rhein

Super iron out makes all the difference. 20 minutes in the ultrasonic cleaner

2 inch scapolite and 3-1/2 inch diopside

13th Nov 2010 22:14 UTCGlenn Rhein

Even after the cut this one must weight 400 pounds but its on the dolly and in the garage.

13th Nov 2010 22:25 UTCPeter Andresen Expert

Wow!!! To both the rinesed sample and the last one posted! Great work, and as said by others already, how fun to follow this topic, so I follow up with my vote for this as this years thread.

Keep posting!:)

14th Nov 2010 23:22 UTCGlenn Rhein

The pieces are cleaning up very well, here's a before and after.

This piece is from the first dig site.

15th Nov 2010 14:52 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


The specimens look fantastic; I'm going to get some Super Iron Out to clean my specimens. Unfortunately, I don't have an ultrasonic.



15th Nov 2010 23:45 UTCGlenn Rhein

I repaired antique clocks for a while and I have a large ultrasonic cleaner and a glass beading cabinet. I never thought either would be filled with rocks ! Joe you're welcome to use either of them anytime.

After cleaning this group of scapolites I found six titinites hiding under the dirt.

Does anyone know what the green tree like design is on some of the scapolite crystals

16th Nov 2010 01:50 UTCAndy Givens

Glenn you are getting good at clenain and takin picsof yourfinds...... glad ur havin fun!!!!!!,the photos are fantastic....

one thing i leared was the lighting...... minerals dont smile whe you ohot them i know, they can be tough, but try a "daylight

" spiral flurecent bulb, you know the kind ya just screw in a reg socket....

ive used that, and ya get better lighting i think......

but your shots r really awsome!!! keep up the fun!

and keep us posted!!!!!!!!! they r cleanin up real nice!

16th Nov 2010 05:32 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

Glenn, the tree-like stuff you describe and i seen in photos is sometimes seen coating feldspars and crystals in the grenvilel area of ontario-quebec-new york. I believe it is usually a variety of allanite. Its usually black. In the photo it appears to have maybe fallen off the crystal and just left a 'cast' of where it had been? hope this helps

16th Nov 2010 05:33 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

oh, I really like that group of scapolites by the way. I love when they come with some small brown titanites. The colour, lustre, and everything about them that contrasts against the scapolite really appeals to me.

16th Nov 2010 08:17 UTCRock Currier Expert

Big fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite em.

And little fleas have lesser fleas and son on ad infinitum.

17th Nov 2010 23:56 UTCGlenn Rhein

A few nice smaller pieces

Scapolite cluster 2-1/2 inches

Hastingsite ? 2-1/4"

diopside twin 3"

19th Nov 2010 01:25 UTCGlenn Rhein

This piece is 8 inches overall , what I call the front , sits on the shelf facing out but the other side is also quite interesting. I look at these crystals every night and see something different all the time. I'm quite hooked !

19th Nov 2010 02:03 UTCMaggie Wilson Expert

Glenn Rhein Wrote:


I look at these crystals every night and see something

> different all the time. I'm quite hooked !

Welcome to the club, Glenn - you are in good company!

19th Nov 2010 06:18 UTCMickey Marks

Scapolite is tetragonal. The crystals in the photographs appear to be monoclinic, and are very likely to be orthoclase. Scapolite will decompose in hydrochloric acid, while orthoclase will not. Also, scapolite fusibilty is 3, while orthoclase is 5. If these tests were to be tried, it would help to confirm the mineral's identity.

19th Nov 2010 17:33 UTCHershel Friedman

Hi Mickey,

Scapolite is well-known from the area. These crystals that Glenn found are definitely Scapolite. There is some orthoclase feldspar as well in the area, but the orthoclase from Amity is easily identifiable with its etches and slight sheen. In fact, they sometimes go together - I personally have found crystals of Scapolite associated together with Orthoclase from Amity and they are quite a bit different.

22nd Nov 2010 00:47 UTCGlenn Rhein

The first octohedrons we have found so far, they are very small only about 1/8 of an inch.

They are on a large mass of phlogopite.

Thanks again everyone for all your imput.

22nd Nov 2010 03:49 UTCHershel Friedman

Hey Glenn,

Looks you finally found the elusive Spinel that Amity is famous for! Hopefully you'll start finding them nice and big!

22nd Nov 2010 04:56 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

I dont know the area that well but is it possible for them to be zircons? I'm sure in the hand it would be easier to know.

22nd Nov 2010 12:25 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Herschel is correct. Spinel. I'm certain that the giant spinels are lurking somewhere, Glenn. Just a matter of time before you find them.

23rd Nov 2010 00:31 UTCGlenn Rhein

All of the specimens that you left for me turned out to be uvite tourmaline, the one we suspected might be vesuvianite was also tourmaline. The pinkish specimen that everyone was calling yttrocerite at your house was pink microcline feldspar. The blue-white fluorescent material that appears white is diopside. The scapolite is calcium dominant and is called meionite. The bright green amphibole that fluoresces yellow in the white marble that you gave to Marian is fluor-edenite. The micaceous material is phlogopite mica with chlorite. I think this was the mica they were trying to tell you was clintonite. The next time I see you I can go over the specimens and tell you which is which in case you are confused.

Just recieved this from the NYS museum. A big thanks to everyone at the museum.

A must visit to all the rock hounds

24th Nov 2010 23:53 UTCGlenn Rhein

Three nice Titanites, about 1 1/4 inches each. My next cleaning project.

Happy Thanksgiving

25th Nov 2010 08:06 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

Glenn Rhein Wrote:


> Three nice Titanites, about 1 1/4 inches each. My

> next cleaning project.

> Happy Thanksgiving

these should turn out nice after cleaning :) continually looking forward to your finds

25th Nov 2010 10:43 UTCAymeric Longi

My oh my, this is absolutely amazing, flabbergastering, stupefying !

You sure must have a great time digging up all these beauties, so many species ! It's been said before, but you are indeed very lucky to own such a piece of land Glenn.

Thanks a lot for sharing your find with us and, of course, keep digging !



25th Nov 2010 17:35 UTCGlenn Rhein

A three foot by two foot spray of tremolite on top of a boulder, really nice light blue fluorescence

27th Nov 2010 15:11 UTCGlenn Rhein

The best fluorapatite we have found yet, just about 4 inches long on some really well formed crystals.

27th Nov 2010 18:20 UTCHarald Schillhammer Expert

If I follow this thread a while longer, I think I am going to burst ;)

This find does not cease to amaze me.


27th Nov 2010 21:02 UTCPaul Brandes Manager

Just goes to show that even when you believe you know everything there is to know about an area, something amazing like this pops up....

Keep up the good work, Glenn!! :)-D

29th Nov 2010 01:11 UTCGlenn Rhein

Found this today with Andy Givens, I think its Clintonite and or biotite. Its very different then the other micas, its much harder and more brittle. cool stuff

Thanks for coming by Andy.

29th Nov 2010 22:00 UTCGlenn Rhein

Some weird yard rocks, first one is marble and weathered crystals ? The other is marble and I think Quartz

29th Nov 2010 23:12 UTCAndy Givens

that last one is a real wierd one glenn!

1st Dec 2010 20:11 UTCGlenn Rhein

This one weighs over forty pounds and is bigger than a basketball, Its just a mass of straw like crystals. Its dirty but has slight light blue fluorescence.

Tremolite ? In the lawn garden or back on the rock wall ?

1st Dec 2010 21:59 UTCGlenn

This is certainly the thread of the year here in my opinion. Captivating and astonishing and cool that its in NY where I am. But, now that Glenn has found all this and mineral specimens are making it to museums and such there certainly needs to be a name associated with this occurance...what neat name have you decided upon for this occurance? Glenn's back yard just doesn't seem to cut it. And maybe Ive missed it, but whats the occurance name ?

2nd Dec 2010 02:06 UTCEarl Verbeek Expert

They look like tremolites, yes, and the color of fluorescence fits. Probably a bluish gray to grayish blue, right? Look for cleavage parallel to the length of the crystals -- if you see two sets of cleavage surfaces at angles of about 120 and 60 degrees it's an amphibole, and probably tremolite. Also look at daylight color on a fresh surface. Tremolite from the Franklin Marble is normally pale to medium gray.

2nd Dec 2010 03:38 UTCGlenn Rhein

Two Glenn's in one forum. Thanks for the vote. We haven't really thought about a name. I guess we'll have to work on one. Any suggestions ?

Earl, I might have to bring this one with me when I visit Sterling Hill. Here are a few more pictures that might help

2nd Dec 2010 14:08 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Here is a large example of what Earl was speaking of-Tremolite in the Franklin marble.

3rd Dec 2010 00:14 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks David and Earl for the Tremolite lesson.

This is a cluster of weathered scapolite crystals off the wall. I cut a slice off with the wet saw expecting to see a nice red fluorescence under SW like the other scapolites we dug up but nothing. Hit the LW button and was surprised to see this.

3rd Dec 2010 02:48 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Hi Glenn, this should not be too surprising for meionite. Several finds of meionite over the years from the Limecrest Quarry in Sparta, NJ produced yellow and orange responses under UV light. Some very orange specimens were found that were translucent gray in daylight and a light or pale green color also tended to the orangy UV responses.


3rd Dec 2010 22:39 UTCGlenn Rhein

Steve, what makes the same mineral give off different colors under UV

Meionite and titanite. This is a really nice piece

3rd Dec 2010 22:42 UTCRob Woodside Manager

Different trace impurities will cause different colours. I would love to know what causes the near blinding yellow fluorescence in some scapolites.

3rd Dec 2010 22:52 UTCGlenn Rhein

Rob , Does that mean Its not unusual to find different colors on the same mineral at the same location and does this apply to most or all minerals

A deformed or melted apitite

3rd Dec 2010 23:11 UTCRob Woodside Manager

Usually the material from a given location will behave the same and this applies to most minerals. However, Fluorescent localities, like Franklin and Greenland, can produce the same minerals with different fluorescences.

3rd Dec 2010 23:51 UTCEarl Verbeek Expert

@ Rob: The almost-blinding yellow fluorescence seen in some scapolites is due to the disulfide ion as an impurity, substituting for the carbonate ion in the scapolite (meionite) crystal structure. The less-saturated yellow fl. of Glenn's scapolites does not look like the disulfide-activated scapolites I've seen, and I suspect is due to a different, as yet unknown, activator. Measurement of the emission spectrum of a local example would tell us that for sure, but might not be sufficient to determine the activator of fluorescence.

@Glenn: The deep red shortwave fluorescence you see in much of your scapolite is due to ferric iron substituting for calcium in the meionite structure. This same impurity, again substituting for calcium, is responsible for the deep red fluorescence seen in much plagioclase feldspar.

@ Glenn again: Normally a given mineral at a given locality will show only one color of fluorescence, but exceptions are numerous. Scapolite in the Franklin Marble is one of them. Different impurity elements, different colors of fluorescence -- we see this often. Your rocks up there have had 1.3 billion years to get "complicated", and they've done a good job of it. Any mineral that, once formed, becomes subject to alteration and/or recrystallization, or that forms during two or more different time periods, can show different colors of fluorescence because their chemical compositions are different.

4th Dec 2010 22:12 UTCGlenn Rhein

Tremolite and norbergite in a nice pattern 5 by 6 inches

5th Dec 2010 00:44 UTCRob Woodside Manager

Thanks Earl!!! Why does the disulfide emission have such a broad peak? Is the disulfide banging around in an over sized cage leading to a wide range of emission energies? Recently I joined the Fluorescent Mineral Society (http://uvminerals.org/fms/about-fluorescent-mineral-society ) and I'm thinking of getting a spectrophotometer to see the fluorescent wavelengths.

5th Dec 2010 16:01 UTCEarl Verbeek Expert

Rob- I am not nearly as conversant on this subject as I'd like to be, but if you look at the emission spectrum of a disulfide-activated mineral, what you see is a moderately broad peak with numerous subsidiary peaks superimposed upon it. Those smaller peaks reflect vibrational states of the disulfide ion.

Let's first consider a simpler case, a single ion in a crystallographic site -- say, divalent manganese substituting for calcium in calcite (which will then fluoresce red). At any temperature above absolute zero the ions in the crystal structure are vibrating, so any given crystallographic site does not have a fixed geometry, but "wiggles" a little. The metal (Mn in this case) to oxygen distances are constantly changing. Now, if you zap those Mn ions with ultraviolet light, at any given time the metal-to-oxygen distances for some ions will be at a minimum, for some a maximum, and for some intermediate. The wavelength of the visible light emitted from an excited state will vary according to the metal-to-oxygen distance at the time of emission. The result is an emission spectrum that shows not a line emission, but an emission peak of finite width. The width of the peak decreases as the temperature of the sample is lowered, which is why researchers commonly prefer to measure emission spectra at very low temperatures. The electronic transitions are much easier to "read" that way.

Now go to the more complicated case of an ionic group consisting of more than one atom -- in our case, the disulfide ion. Now you have two ions, the distance between which can vary between some minimum and maximum values. This introduces additional vibrational states, and because those states are quantized (there is not a continuum of "allowed" distances separating the ions, but discrete values), you will see multiple vibrational peaks superimposed on the main one in the fluorescence emission spectrum. That make sense?

5th Dec 2010 20:14 UTCGlenn Rhein

This Scapolite (Meionite) cleaned up really well.

5th Dec 2010 20:30 UTCRob Woodside Manager

Yes it does!!! Thanks so much Earl. I now understand why you guys are keen on low temp spectra.

What physicist take and teach from Einstein's 1905 paper ("photon paper') on the photoelectric effect is that the light energy depends on the wave's frequency and not just on the squared amplitude as explained by classical physics. That being the case there's lots of energy in short wave UV, more than in long wave, so short wave should produce all the fluorescent colours of long wave. WRONGO!!!! Not just energy conservation is important here, but also equally important is momentum conservation and this is where the different long and short wave responses arise. So I've gotten interested in just what the electron states look like.... Sorry for hijacking the thread.

7th Dec 2010 00:40 UTCGlenn Rhein

Rob, I don't mind the hijacking I learn all kinds of things from this thread but I must admit some of it is way over my head.

My grandsons version of the fluorescent rocks. (Austen)

7th Dec 2010 04:04 UTCRob Woodside Manager


7th Dec 2010 04:14 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

Your ¨deformed¨ apatite kinda resembles ones from bancroft that have a melted appearance. it sometimes seems like they have a cyclical growth and nothing grows in the middle. i really dont know if its a void sometimes or not. I could only assume it is.

could you take a foto of the tremolite and norbergite without the UV ? just curious how they look without it.

sad to know that its winter because your find has been great to watch i still cant wait for whats to come.

7th Dec 2010 05:01 UTCRob Woodside Manager

The guys back east call these Calcite Vein Dike Occurrences and to their displeasure I call them carbonatites. They are almost frequent in the Grenville. However most are not as prolific as yours. See if you can get 2000 ppm Strontium in a bulk carbonate sample. If so you have a carbonatite.

7th Dec 2010 11:15 UTCAndy Givens

that scapolite did clean up VERY nice glenn!


7th Dec 2010 14:46 UTCGlenn Rhein

Matt, here are some pictures of the Tremolite- Norbergite without UV

7th Dec 2010 16:41 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

thanks! looks much better under the lamp i was expecting some more visible norbergite. :)-D

8th Dec 2010 21:52 UTCGlenn Rhein

Here are more pictures of carbonatites ? or as us carpenters call them "melted crystals"

I need to take a Geology course....

9th Dec 2010 15:26 UTCGlenn Rhein

This group turned out to be Augite. They were found in the fourth dig site with some tourmalines.

Steve Kuitems called it possible Augite on the first page.

10th Dec 2010 15:45 UTCGlenn Rhein

Fluorapatite and mix , seven inches high overall

11th Dec 2010 16:19 UTCGlenn Rhein

New to pictures but no new finds, to cold to dig. There is allready several inches of frost in the ground here.

11th Dec 2010 19:02 UTCRob Woodside Manager

This morning Glenn christened his locality " Rhein Find 2010,..." so I entered:


I moved Glenn's fluoredenite photo there and hope more of the photos here can be uploaded to the locality. To add minerals to a locality now at Mindat you must have some reference for the ID. Often visual ID is sufficient but not for particular Amphiboles, etc. Once a locality is understood one can often claim that the apatite is Fluorapatite or the scapolite is Meionite, but an analysis is often best. The N Y museum at Albany is doing some of this analysis and maybe the methods can be added. Anyway I went through the 9 pages and added the minerals that seem to be ID'd and claimed "visual identification", except for Fluoredenite which I gambled was done by a familiarity with these deposits and a quick Xray. Please correct me and please add anything known about this locality.

11th Dec 2010 19:13 UTCWarren Cummings Expert


Sorry to say but its not, repeat not, a "calcite vein dike". Its the Franklin Marble reacting with associated silicate units, a fundamentally different entity.

11th Dec 2010 19:23 UTCPhil Walsh

When I was there in 1972 I walked through this area. There is a similar area to the South, nearer to the Newport Bridge Road. At that time I was given permission by the mineral rights owner to go collecting. That is the Stidworthy family. Phil

11th Dec 2010 19:28 UTCRob Woodside Manager

Thanks Waren, I'll correct it. Please feel free to add more to the locality description and change what ever I wrote

11th Dec 2010 20:19 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


Sorry to hear that Old Man Winter has arrived in your area. I appreciate being allowed to visit with you on that beautiful sunny day last October. I look forward to seeing more photos and getting more updates in the spring.



11th Dec 2010 21:02 UTCWarren Cummings Expert


The warwickite type locality is just a stones throw, literally, off Newport Bridge Road. The main outcrop belt of the Franklin Marble extends for another 15 miles south-southwest from there. The mineral assemblages are similar throughout but only rarely are crystals developed of the quality found recently.

The area sure looked different in 1972. Now its littered with the hoi polloi from the city and I suspect that 99% of them don't have a clue about what's under their feet.

12th Dec 2010 21:06 UTCRob Woodside Manager

Warren, Thanks for fixing things.

12th Dec 2010 21:26 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks Warren, Rob and everyone else involved for your work on this site.

14th Dec 2010 12:51 UTCGlenn Rhein

one inch green apatites on a bed of very fine crystals, seven inches overall

14th Dec 2010 16:46 UTCWayne Corwin


Your getting some pritty nice finds there, your a verrrrrrry lucky man !

Keep up the good work ! Hopefully spring will come soon ! (tu)


Wayne Corwin

15th Dec 2010 22:12 UTCGlenn Rhein

Large mass of graphite about ten inches

16th Dec 2010 23:40 UTCGlenn Rhein

This piece is black Diopside and tiny Titanites on marble matrix

17th Dec 2010 02:09 UTCByron Thomas

Sigh this site makes my heart sink every time i check out the new photos are put up. Now don't get me wrong, i think it is sooooo cool this new find has been found. It just makes my heart sink that im in Indiana where this stuff is not found.


18th Dec 2010 00:29 UTCGlenn Rhein

This crystal has a very metalic finish, its not magnetic. Anyone have any ideas to what it could be ?

18th Dec 2010 05:47 UTCMichael J. Bainbridge Expert

It looks to me like a tremolite pseudomorph after diopside (uralite).

18th Dec 2010 14:18 UTCMike Royal

Glenn things look like they are cleaning up great . You have enough to keep you busy all winter im sure . Keep the pics coming, maybe ill see you again in the spring. Thanks for the time and hospitality on my visit with Andy Was great fun to see your finds

mike royal

21st Dec 2010 01:13 UTCGlenn Rhein

Next time bring your digging tools Mike

21st Dec 2010 06:19 UTCByron Thomas

Ok Glenn here is my question, are or is all of this from loose boulders or is it coming from in the ground rock shelf?


21st Dec 2010 23:50 UTCGlenn Rhein

Byron, We observed small crystals on the suface and just started digging. The top layer of small crystals were mixed in with the topsoil after that there wasn't much dirt mostly just loose rock. We used bars and pried them out. Eventually we found larger and larger rocks, dug what dirt we could from around them and under them and with a heavy strap lifted them out of the hole with the backhoe. The boulders were against each other but really not connected. I imagine they broke apart long ago maybe the last ice age ? We dug until we hit dirt on all sides and ended up with really not that big of a hole considering what came out. Most of what I have came from this hole and what I call site three. There are four so far.

The other three yielded 12 to 15 specimens each, much smaller crystals but some of my favorite. A specimen from site one is headed down to Lance Kearns at James Madison University for display in their mineral museum. This area has a very high mineralization and I believe anywhere where the Franklin Marble is in contact with Granite you will find some crystals maybe not huge but nice examples.

The Tremolite and the Uvite I did not dig up they were just on the surface of the marble out crops. The Phlogopite and Graphite is every where, you don't have to look to hard to find it. As for the fluorescent material, I don't know why it fluorescess here and not on the other lots less than a couple hundred yards away. We built a house next door and it looks like the same marble but none of it was fluorescent although there was no granite just marble.

Here,s a picture of site three, the big one

21st Dec 2010 23:55 UTCGlenn Rhein

I found this small very blue material on marble. Any thoughts of what it could be ?

Is not fluorescent

22nd Dec 2010 01:42 UTCGreg Kokolus


I have a question. If you weren't a mineral collector before hitting this remarkable find,

are you one now?

Merry Christmas,

Greg Kokolus

22nd Dec 2010 03:33 UTCHershel Friedman

That blue stuff really looks like Azurite. I would never have guessed Azurite had I not found plenty of this material nearby in Sterling Hill about 2 years ago. Looks exactly like that material I found there. It was also associated with green Malachite.

22nd Dec 2010 04:13 UTCEverett Harrington Expert

Spinel?? Are there crystals? or is it massive?



22nd Dec 2010 04:28 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Glenn, I think Herschel is correct with azurite. The source appears to be right near it from altered sulphides like pyrite or chalcopyrite. Check the brown grains and look when you break some into small pieces for remnant cores of the original sulphide. As Herschel stated this sort of find occurs in a variety of Franklin Marble locations.


26th Dec 2010 14:25 UTCGlenn Rhein

This stuff is a yellow, green and on Franklin Marble.

Could be the last of the pictures for a while with this big snow storm headed our way

26th Dec 2010 15:52 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Hi Glenn,

I have both Actinolite and Tremolite that looks like that. But, whatever it is, I like the aesthetic look of it against the marble.

26th Dec 2010 17:55 UTCMichael J. Bainbridge Expert

Looks like serpentine group. Lizardite?

26th Dec 2010 21:25 UTCGlenn Rhein

Here are some better pictures of that last group. The fresh break is blue ish and the rest yellow under LW- UV

No reaction under SW

27th Dec 2010 00:03 UTCWoody Thompson Expert

I agree with Michael that it looks like serpentine. The grooves may be slickensides resulting from fault movement. Similar-looking material occurs in the Quebec asbestos mines, and also in marble quarries in the Rockland-Thomaston area, Maine.

Good luck with the snow storm, Glenn. It's headed our way with a vengeance here in northern New England!

Woody Thompson

27th Dec 2010 03:33 UTCHershel Friedman

Serpentine is possible but the Franklin marble is not really known for its serpentine minerals. My guess is that its a different from of Tremolite, as David suggested. Serpentine in that form is actually easy to test by feel - see if it has a greasy feel: If it does then it almost certainly is serpentine; otherwise its most likely tremolite. I guess we'll have to wait till the great winter thaw begins to see more fresh digs from your property...

27th Dec 2010 04:22 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks David, Michael, Woody and Herschel.

The fresh break is very greasy. I looked at many pictures of Serpentines, could it be Antigorite ? It is not listed in the minerals from Franklin Marble but was found in Brewster NY at the Tilly Foster Mine. It also has some mica on the side.

27th Dec 2010 13:10 UTCMichael J. Bainbridge Expert

Glen, it could definitely be antigorite, but since it seems the Mg minerals dominate in your occurrence, I went with lizardite as my first guess (antigorite is iron bearing). Could be either though, based on the appearance. I've seen both that look just like that (thick, bent 'fibres') even though there are no lizardite pics like that in the db. I believe serpentine's one of those groups where you can't ID the members visually.


27th Dec 2010 13:25 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Michael, I thought your opinion was a good one given that it appears to be a Serpentine group mineral. Since Glenn's finds in the area have been highly fluorescent, would this eliminate Antigorite given the iron content. I'm just asking given my impression that the iron content would be a fluorescent quencher.

27th Dec 2010 15:20 UTCVan King Manager

I just saw the ten pages devoted to your extraordinary find, Glenn. Congratulations! If it hasn't already been mentioned, Mike Hawkins at the New York State Museum would be excited about this occurrence and certainly would have the interest to provide you with proper laboratory identifications, especially of the chemically variable species you are finding. Lab Work 1. Guess Work Zero.

27th Dec 2010 15:49 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Hi Van,

Mike is already quite involved and has done exactly what you have written.

27th Dec 2010 16:00 UTCWoody Thompson Expert

Hi Glenn,

Minerals of the serpentine group not only have a greasy feel in that habit, but also would be softer than tremolite. If it's very soft, could it even be talc??


Woody Thompson

29th Dec 2010 03:31 UTCGlenn Rhein

Had to go out in the snow and break this chunck off a large boulder. Large mass of lizardite ? Seems to be alot of this stuff.

2nd Jan 2011 20:57 UTCGlenn Rhein

Fluoro-edenite cleaned up really well in a short dip of HCL acid

2nd Jan 2011 21:28 UTCAdam Kelly

"Fluoro-edenite cleaned up really well in a short dip of HCL acid"

Ya! I would say so!

2nd Jan 2011 21:49 UTCAndy Givens

wow!!!!!! LOOKS AWESOME GLENN!!!!!!

5th Jan 2011 02:03 UTCGlenn Rhein

We donated our first piece today to James Madison University in appreciation to Lance Kearns for his research on the Amity area.

Thanks to Jim for putting me in contact with Lance.

Here's pictures of the speciman he picked.

5th Jan 2011 22:41 UTCGlenn Rhein

Here is todays find, its very purple.

David, Thanks for the visit.

5th Jan 2011 22:48 UTCMaggie Wilson Expert

Purple is a new colour for the suite, is it not?

Thanks for continuing to dig and to post!

5th Jan 2011 23:04 UTCMike Royal


Can i bother you for a closer pic of the new find

Thats some killer color and thanks for all the updates


5th Jan 2011 23:09 UTCJohn Davis (2)

Hi Glenn, Nice purple rock. Is it fluorite or maybe quartz?

Keep digging. I enjoy everything that you pull out of the ground

John Davis

5th Jan 2011 23:09 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Now you see, Glenn. I was telling you today about the Fluorite I had found about a mile away. Looks like you have found some.

Thank you for having me today-it was great fun.

6th Jan 2011 01:15 UTCGlenn Rhein

Mike here are some more pictures. My camera is not that great.

This is a small piece that I broke off the rest weighs about 100 pounds, From the out side all you can see is purple lines oozing out. Tomorrow I'll take some pictures of it after I clean it up a bit.

6th Jan 2011 01:56 UTCAndy Givens

!!!!! very VERY nice Glenn!!!!!! :)-D ::o

13th Jan 2011 00:26 UTCGlenn Rhein

More picture of hte purple (fluorite?) If I didn't see signs of purple from the outside I would never have broken a piece off to find out what's inside.

Makes you wonder about every rock, you can,t break them all or can you !!

13th Jan 2011 23:16 UTCJohn Davis (2)

Hi Glenn,

I hunt fluorite in an Ohio quarry quite a bit. From the photo, it appears that the host rock is very porous. I often find scattered crystals through limestone of this texture. Good luck on future finds.

John Davis

16th Jan 2011 20:50 UTCGlenn Rhein

Titanite and meionite after cleaning 20 cm

17th Jan 2011 23:23 UTCGlenn Rhein

This weathered marble almost looks like a piece of wood, it is full of graphite "slickenside" as Earl pointed out earlier in this thread. Some of it is layered like the second photo, large pieces have fifty or more layers with more graphite showing than marble.

18th Jan 2011 17:57 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson


I found a very similar piece with the graphite striped the same way over on Mountainside Rd., right by Big Island Rd. A snowplow broke it out of a roadside exposure last winter. Very nice piece. Jeff

18th Jan 2011 19:01 UTCRob (The Rock Hunter) Shepard

Glen is it possible to come up there when the weather breaks and dig a little bit with you

Also I would be very interested in getting a piece of the purple rock from you. Is that possible, give me a ring 860-803-4147 Robert

18th Jan 2011 19:52 UTCGlenn Rhein

A cresent shape of Uvite on Franklin marble. Uvite is more yellow than in the picture with white phosphorescence on left side under SW-UV

5 inches overall.

Robert, I will give you a call but yes you can come up anytime.

18th Jan 2011 20:45 UTCRob (The Rock Hunter) Shepard

Have you found any Corumdum?

18th Jan 2011 21:36 UTCWayne Corwin


That cresent shape of Uvite on Franklin marble is verry impressive ! !

So many nice finds ! ! Keep up the good work ! !


Wayne Corwin

20th Jan 2011 17:02 UTCGlenn Rhein

This scapolite (meionite) is different in shape from all the others. Still has a pinkish fluorescent color 6 inches overall

20th Jan 2011 22:43 UTCGlenn Rhein

Todays project was cleaning. Graphite wings

21st Jan 2011 03:19 UTCMichael J. Bainbridge Expert

That's some fantastic looking graphite Glen. Nice find!

21st Jan 2011 16:25 UTCGlenn Rhein

More graphite, Today I'm working on cleaning meionite

22nd Jan 2011 23:20 UTCGlenn Rhein

I'm kind of stuck on graphite, Sorry if its too much

23rd Jan 2011 00:57 UTCMaggie Wilson Expert

no need to apologize - you are among your kind of people! ;)

I wonder if John Jaszczak of the A. E. Seaman Mineral Museum has seen your graphite finds? You might like to see his efforts regarding graphite:


and from a locality close to our neck of the woods


23rd Jan 2011 01:32 UTCPete Stoeckel


First of all nice find. I would have to agree with Joe P it looks alot like the scapolite from the Bancroft area namely Diamond Lake Road cut in Highland Grove, Ontario, Canada

23rd Jan 2011 02:28 UTCGlenn Rhein

I thought Graphite was very common. Is it not ? There seems to be a lot here in different forms.

Maggie, Thanks for the links very interesting stuff

Stephanie, Thanks for the help on the pictures. It makes a big difference

23rd Jan 2011 04:40 UTCWayne Corwin

Hello Glenn

Your photo's HAVE gotten so much better, there wonderfull now, and so are your Graphites !

Are you still digging them up or is this material you dug before all the snow ?

Either way , great work Glenn ! (tu) :D (tu)


Wayne Corwin

24th Jan 2011 13:28 UTCGlenn Rhein

13 inch group of Titanite's Meionite's and other, most likely diopside

Hot hot water and Super Iron Out seems to work the best for cleaning this stuff. Wayne, This is all stuff I dug up before the snow and piled up in the back yard. I made a pile of just Graphite so I just had to brush off the snow to get it.

24th Jan 2011 20:47 UTCRob (The Rock Hunter) Shepard

The Graphite is great Glenn and your photos are really good too...good work

25th Jan 2011 22:36 UTCGlenn Rhein

This is my new way to clean those 30 pounders and I don't mean Turkeys!

26th Jan 2011 01:13 UTCMichael J. Bainbridge Expert

Glen, you are totally hardcore. I love it!

26th Jan 2011 04:24 UTCWayne Corwin


I hope you vent the fumes, or do it out side.

But it sure looke great when done !


Wayne Corwin

26th Jan 2011 21:00 UTCGlenn Rhein

Very sharp group of meionites 10 x 14 inches speckled with tiny titanites

26th Jan 2011 22:26 UTCMaggie Wilson Expert

the markings on the meionite are very pretty -

27th Jan 2011 00:22 UTCAndy Givens

dude!!!!!!! :)-D impressive....very nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! your havin toooooo much fun!


27th Jan 2011 00:53 UTCRowan Lytle


I have followed your posts since they started, and you have one amazing find! Graphite specimans as good as your 'butterflie's wings' are hard to obtain. The variety is niece to. I like specimans with 2 or more minerals. Great work and good luck!


27th Jan 2011 06:29 UTCStephanie Martin

Glenn - have you determined what the patterns are on the meionite? They are a treat! They would make nice wallpaper for my desktop.

It's been really entertaining to watch the evolution of this discovery. Thank you for sharing this adventure.

stephanie :)

28th Jan 2011 22:49 UTCGlenn Rhein

The colors in my fluorescent pictures have not been quite right, My camera is not that great but I've been experimenting and it seems that taking the pictures in daylight not dark, produces more accurate colors.

Mostly Fluoroedenite but there is phlogopite and maybe diopside glowing also. marble and graphite has no affect

Stephanie, someone a while back suggested they might be Allanite but I'm not sure what the pattern is on the Meionite but it is pretty cool

28th Jan 2011 23:46 UTCMike Royal


That's awesome!!!! your getting better and better The stuff is cleaning up well you will have a nice clean collection by spring.

Keep up the posts there much enjoyed

29th Jan 2011 00:56 UTCMichael J. Bainbridge Expert

Glen, the effect on the colours of taking the picture in daylight/dark may be because of your camera's white balance setting. If you can manually set it to daylight and try taking the pics in the dark you might see an improvement (some cameras will revert automatically to incandescent setting in the dark). Taking the pictures in the light so we can see both fluorescent and non, is great though!

That type of patterning on Grenville material can be a number of things, but most commonly allanite, diopside or mica. In my area (near Bancroft), it's usually allanite, but there was a similar occurrence to yours in upstate NY where it was found to be diopside.


1st Feb 2011 00:39 UTCGlenn Rhein

A nice little group of crystals, six inches

1st Feb 2011 03:37 UTCWayne Corwin






Wayne Corwin

8th Feb 2011 05:29 UTCFred A. Schuster

Hi Glenn,

Nice Work!! Keep up the documentation! Very interesting.

I think I may have met you . I am living in Quebec but am down to my old NW NJ home once in a while. I was driving in the Amity area and met a nice fellow on a cul-de-sac, who kindly let me dig some augite crystals out of the side of his road. I remeber there being a pipe line about to be laid in the back of his property. I can't remember the name of the road now. I was there about 6 years ago. I was invited into the gentleman's house. The house looks like the one I was at form the air. Do you remember me? I had a Mazda.

If you do and would like to email me my email is fasteel7@hotmail.com

I am coming down to NW NJ to do my taxes in April. I would love to see what has turned up.

9th Feb 2011 00:11 UTCGlenn Rhein

Yes Fred, That was me. I didn't think much of it at the time but after I found this large group of minerals in September things changed fast.

I'm having a lot of fun and met some great people. Come by anytime...

sharp group of Meionites and a large group

9th Feb 2011 02:15 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

> Stephanie, someone a while back suggested they

> might be Allanite but I'm not sure what the

> pattern is on the Meionite but it is pretty cool

Me and michael bainbridge have suggested it. It looks like it may have been washed away on some pieces but there is a 'cast' left behind?

9th Feb 2011 06:12 UTCFred A. Schuster

Hi Glenn,

I am so pleased to see it turned out well for you. Such interesting minerals. This should be documented since there are not many opportunities to see into the Warwick geology. And you are documenting it. I would like to come down the first week of April and see what you have.

Perhaps I could photo some things if you like.


11th Feb 2011 07:01 UTCHershel Friedman

Hi Glenn,

Long time no speak - I have been busy finishing up my site www.minerals.net and made it live just this week for the Tucson show, thus my lack of contribution to this thread. I just noticed your question earlier about Graphite being common. Graphite is one of my mineral favorites, so I will take the liberty to respond to this. Graphite as a mineral IS very common, but specimens in collections are seldom represented. Few localities provide good quality lustrous crystals - most forms are graphite as massive or vein material and not all that interesting.

I had some flats of high quality Graphite from Stony Point NY, very similar to those you are finding, and when I brought them to a show last year they were all snatched up immediately. Graphite with good lustrous crystal faces is hard to come by and very desirable. The graphite from Amity you have is definitely of a good luster and form and should be quite desirable to collectors, especially considering the classic locality it is found in.

Try staying warm there in NY!

- Hershel

15th Feb 2011 21:27 UTCGlenn Rhein

A few more cleaned pieces

large meionite, large diopside and group of fluorapatites

18th Feb 2011 01:34 UTCGlenn Rhein

There are large pieces but there are many really great smalls too. 42 drawer cabinet is full as well as the dental cabinet in the garage.

19th Feb 2011 20:24 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson


The one in your hand (greatstuff005) is incredible! And I love your mineral cabinet with all the small drawers! Superb stuff!!!! I still plan on stopping over one weekend very soon, as soon as the ice and snow are gone. I'll call ya!!


20th Feb 2011 17:53 UTCKeith Wood

An impressive find to say the least. I have truly enjoyed this thread and hope you will continue to keep us informed about your activities. Thanks.

25th Feb 2011 00:07 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks Keith and Jeff....

Does anyone know what this stuff on the marble is, its very hard stuff and almost looks like its growing on the marble

25th Feb 2011 01:46 UTCKeith Wood

It looks like caliche, which is aragonite deposited by transport of calcium carbonate in the aerated zone of soils. It is very common here in the west (e.g. Nevada, where I live.) Check it with acid and see if it reacts. It would be similar to cave formations. If not, it might be opaline silica deposited in a similar manner. In the third picture the linear features probably relate directly to weathering of healed fractures in the unaltered rock beneath. In any case it is a weathering product of the marble, and not directly related to the nice metamorphic minerals you have been finding. Might be fluorescent.

25th Feb 2011 03:01 UTCWayne Corwin


It looks to me that what your calling Marble,,, is still a bit more on the Limestone end of it's rock phase.

But I love what your doing,,, keep up the great work !

KOR (Keep On Rockin')

Wayne Corwin

25th Feb 2011 03:30 UTCJim Bean

I second Keith's caliche (or if not, secondary silica) I.D. By the way, is that marble/limestone blue or is it just the picture?

25th Feb 2011 18:56 UTCGlenn Rhein

Wayne I'm not really sure marble or limestone but it seems to be called Franklin Marble around here.

Jim, there are four colors of marble here, mostly white but also blue, grey and very little salmon or pink.

The interesting part is that the blue is the only color that has the Fluoro-edenite and the Graphite crystals are the largest. Also has diopside

The white has smaller Graphite crystals with Norbergite or Chondrodite and diopside

Grey seems to have tiny specs of Graphite and a different texture and nothing in it is fluorescent

There are marble boulders everywhere and I've only found one five inch piece of marble that the marble itself is fluorescent (Orange)

26th Feb 2011 03:13 UTCJim Bean

Interesting variety! The only reason I brought it up is because a locality out here in Calif. also has blue calcite marble. If I recall the blue here is caused by distortions in the crystal structure. I've also seen similar stuff from Mexico.

27th Feb 2011 02:23 UTCJohn A. Jaszczak Expert

Here is a glimpse into the "micro" world of this thread on "massive" crystals. Glenn kindly provided some marble for study of the graphite crystals.

These images were all taken using a Hitachi S-4700 cold field emission scanning electron microscope.

Cluster tabular hexagonal graphite crystals(approximately 1.3 mm across) covered by a second generation of fine-grained graphite growth, isolated from HCl residues from marble.

Relatively thick cluster of graphite crystals (approximately 0.5 mm across), isolated from HCl residues from marble. The surface shows a spiral growth step emanating from a hole in the basal pinacoid (presumably the location of the dislocation core). See daughter images for close ups of the spiral and the core.

Spheroidal aggregates of platy graphite crystals (about 250 microns across on carbon tape) isolated from HCl residues from marble. The outer surface is partly covered by a thin shell of fine-grained graphite.

Pair of spheroidal aggregates of graphite crystals (each about 350 microns across on carbon tape) isolated from HCl residues from marble.

27th Feb 2011 03:07 UTCJohn A. Jaszczak Expert

Here is an optical image of a remarkable tiny crystal (~1mm) from HCl residues from dissolving marble. It is challenging to photograph

because of its luster and because the pyramidal faces are rounded. The basal pinacoid shows a raised island and a faint growth spiral step emanating from the center of the face.

1st Mar 2011 01:54 UTCGlenn Rhein

I found this out back tonight on the rock pile and it has some new colors. White and blue under SW and yellow under LW UV light

13 inches

1st Mar 2011 11:36 UTCPeter Andresen Expert

White and blue under SW and yellow in LW... why do I keep thinking about sheelite? :)


1st Mar 2011 16:40 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

similar fluorescence as at long lake in parham ontario??

4th Mar 2011 01:16 UTCGlenn Rhein

Sheelite I don't know Peter, I will have to Earl Verbeek from Sterling Hill take a look at it.

Matt, I'll have to check out the stuff from Long Lake.

Tony from Excalibur Minerals was kind enough to set up a display of some of my minerals at the New York Mineral show this weekend if any of you locals can make it.

Titanite in the middle of diopside and others

4th Mar 2011 02:13 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

glenn heres the link to the page


material sometimes can be found on ebay and other sites. im sure you can find images on google.

4th Mar 2011 16:03 UTCWayne Corwin


It seems that you keep finding better and better minerals, thats great ! .. NO , SUPER >:D<

Maybe i'll get a chance to stop by during the Franklin mineral show, will you be set up there also?


Wayne Corwin

4th Mar 2011 16:30 UTCRob (The Rock Hunter) Shepard

Glenn how is the snow melt going your way out in NY...Here in CT the snow is starting to go away, We will have to set up that date to come up soon,

4th Mar 2011 17:12 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Hi Glenn, the blue fluorescent area may very well be diopside and the orange could be scapolite or wollastonite. If you have a small piece you could bring it by at the Franklin show. Nice to see your new discoveries!


4th Mar 2011 22:30 UTCGlenn Rhein

When is the Franklin show ?

This is some of the mass scapolite chunks its more on the gemmy side then the crystals

5th Mar 2011 02:28 UTCGary Moldovany

Hi Glenn. The Franklin Mineral show is the weekend of April 30, I believe. It would be fantastic if you could put some of your collection on display there. Not sure whom you would contact, but maybe Steve Kuitems or Earl Verbeek can put you in touch with the right person. I would love to come up and visit your amazing discovery. I'm getting married next month but possibly in May, if my new wife can bear to part with me for a day! Thanks for all the great photos and the contribution you have made to the mineral collecting world. Gary

10th Mar 2011 01:08 UTCGlenn Rhein

Small group of Meionite peppered with Tiny Titanites

Fluorescent piece with Graphite (Black) on top

David, That metalic stuff we found in the back turned out to be Galena

10th Mar 2011 20:39 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Hi Glenn,

I almost missed your note there. I just knew that massive glittery material that we found wasn't Graphite.

My question is-since Galena has been found, can one expect to find secondary lead mineralization at Glenn's locality. Can you divulge who made the ID?

Looking forward to seeing you soon.


11th Mar 2011 03:24 UTCGlenn Rhein

The best Titanite yet, this stuff is still from last fall but they are so dirty you just don't see everything until they are clean.

About 1-3/4 inches and razor sharp, is also sticks out the backside of the Meionite with another Titanite that Photographed really cool (Third picture)

11th Mar 2011 03:32 UTCStephanie Martin

Those are just super duper, Glenn, very very nice. (tu)

No "clash of the titans" here.

Enjoying all your posts.



11th Mar 2011 05:18 UTCHershel Friedman


I found several good pieces of galena in the Passaic Pit in Sterling Hill, NJ about 3 years ago, but didn't find any other associated secondary lead minerals. I don't think there is much secondary lead material from the Franklin Marble, but that area is very proficient so one never knows what will come out next...

- Hershel

12th Mar 2011 17:50 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


Has any molybdenite been found at your place?



14th Mar 2011 15:42 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hi Joe,

How can you tell the difference between Molybdenite and Graphite.

I searched Mindat photos for Molybdenite and there is a picture that looks just like this piece I found Saturday

14th Mar 2011 15:50 UTCRob Woodside Manager

Graphite is black, Molybdenite is blue. Once you see the two together you'll see the difference.

14th Mar 2011 16:03 UTCMichael J. Bainbridge Expert

The colour difference is also quite apparent in their streak, which can be done on a piece of paper in either case.

23rd Mar 2011 20:51 UTCGlenn Rhein

A neat little unknown crystal in the middle of Phlogopite, Fluoro-edenite and Graphite

23rd Mar 2011 21:12 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Hi Glenn- Is that crystal brown? Tarnished? Can you describe the color a bit?

23rd Mar 2011 21:15 UTCRob Woodside Manager

Magnified photo might help

23rd Mar 2011 21:40 UTCGlenn Rhein

It's a little metalic looking, maybe slightly tarnished but only 2mm and that's about the best picture my camera can take (Sorry)

newly found Graphites

24th Mar 2011 00:38 UTCAndy Givens

Hey Glenn!!!! graphitegreats001.... looks like a little sculpture, very very nice indeed! (:P) Andy

24th Mar 2011 00:54 UTCHershel Friedman


Nice graphite! And its definitely graphite, not molybdenite. Graphite is very common throughout the Franklin Marble and the precambrian Highlands region. Molybdenite has also been sporadically found in the region, but I would feel comfortable assuming that pretty much all of Glenn's finds are graphite not molybdenite.

24th Mar 2011 01:16 UTCKeith Wood

The litle crystal reminds me of a monazite I once found:

But I can't tell very much about the one you've got. Yours could easily NOT be monazite.

Cute crystal however. Is it translucent at all? Sometimes monazite is obviously translucent, but not always. Can be opaque chocolate brown to the unaided eye.

24th Mar 2011 01:54 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

your tiny unknown kinda looks like it could be pyrite or ilmenite? hard to tell by photo anyone that happens to come by should help you better with it. if its really magnetic could be magnetite, slightly magnetic then ilmenite likely. could even be a tiny well formed tourmaline.

25th Mar 2011 16:44 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson


I'd like to stop by tomorrow if that's OK. I'll call ya tonight. It's hard to guess what that little crystal is, but it looks intriguing. I'll bring my 30X magnifier with me and we'll see if we can ID it.


26th Mar 2011 14:41 UTCGlenn Rhein

The snow and rain Gods have been good... They washed away all the dirt and now I'm finding some more great fluorescents.

I had found some small green fluorescents last fall but this week I found some large pieces like this one. Opal ?

28th Mar 2011 00:58 UTCGlenn Rhein

A nice yellow and blue band that goes all the way around this ten inch piece of marble ( SW photo in daylight) and some granite loaded with hot pink meionite SW

28th Mar 2011 03:18 UTCHershel Friedman


The green fluorescent certainly looks like willemite - though willemite seems restricted to the Franklin and Sterling Hill zinc orebodies and does not extend up the Franklin Marble to Amity. If it is indeed Willemite that would be a significant find. Opal and Chalcedony can fluoresce a green like that as well, but don't know of such material in the area either. Would it be possible for you to do a greater zoom on the non-fluorescent portions of the mineral and maybe try to take a few shots? That may be helpful in further analyzing this...

28th Mar 2011 15:03 UTCGlenn Rhein

The fluorescent green seems to be only on the suface not through the rock and it kind of looks like Lizardite.

The largest crystal is about 4 inches in this group and has a roof of Titanite. 17 inches long

29th Mar 2011 23:59 UTCGlenn Rhein

These are Under SW in daylight, really bright Fluoro-edenite, Diopside and Tremalite

30th Mar 2011 02:14 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert


30th Mar 2011 07:27 UTCPeter Andresen Expert

I second that statement: Beautiful!!!

30th Mar 2011 17:32 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson

That tremolite in the 2nd pic is superb! The top picture has that "blue cloud" I was talking about. It seems to be embedded deeper into the marble, but the UV light is getting in and exciting the molecules, causing the cloud effect. Very nice!

31st Mar 2011 22:56 UTCGlenn Rhein

Something new but what ? I found this today, its sitting in a hole, very dark and glassy about 1-1/4 inches in either direction. Some of the striated lines look like the are angled.

31st Mar 2011 23:39 UTCAndy Givens

ITS AWESOME! great photography as well glenn!!!... but what is it?

is it spinel?...just a blind guess.


1st Apr 2011 00:04 UTCWayne Corwin


With out some testing, or good daylight pics,,, my guess would be Schorl tourmaline.

You have been doing some great finds, and great photos !

You've come a long way !

Have you checked some of the fluorescents for phosforescents also ?

Wayne Corwin

1st Apr 2011 00:48 UTCHershel Friedman

I would rule out Schorl - it isn't found in the vicinity. Schorl is a pegmatite mineral. It looks possibly like rutile, but that would also be a stretch. Glenn, is there any reddish hue at all on the edges or is it completely black? Another thought is vesuvianite, though its a bit dark for that...

1st Apr 2011 01:22 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert


You are not alone on Rutile. I have a mental picture of the Parkersburg,Pa Rutiles going through my head.

True, a stretch but look what has come out of the ground thus far!

1st Apr 2011 01:44 UTCDennis Tryon

I am no expert on mineral associations, and know nothing about the geology in your area, but wonder if ferberite could be a possibility. The strong white fluorescence he speaks of could maybe be scheelite.


1st Apr 2011 01:54 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks for all the help guys, When I found it, it looked redish and clear but after I got it home I all I could see is black. When you look at the edge with a loop there is a little translucence. It was a great day, I found a lot of cool stuff (I'll post some tommorrow after I clean them).

Wayne, Some of the fluorescent stuff has a strong white phosphorescence and I found my first large orange piece tonight.

1st Apr 2011 03:07 UTCJeff Weissman Expert

Hi Glenn - been watching over your shoulder on this thread for quite a while. Could this be rutile?

1st Apr 2011 18:57 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks for joining in Jeff, I've been looking at pitures of Rutile and it certainly looks the same if that means anything....

This is a large piece of Tremolite on marble I found yesterday, parts of it look pearlescent. ( 9 inches ) Third picture SW UV.

There are some very small perfect crystals here and there on this piece ( clear with a slight greenish hue )

1st Apr 2011 19:06 UTCGlenn Rhein

The crystal on the right is full of tiny graphite flakes and is shines, Reminds me of Christmas....


1st Apr 2011 22:29 UTCRowan Lytle

I think Andy Givens might be right about that crystal being a spinal, as they have been found in franklin marble. Nice tremolites!


1st Apr 2011 22:46 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert


Andy and you are right to the extent that Spinel is found in the area in marble. But I would really be surprised if that was Spinel-I've collected some beauts in the area and they don't look at all like what's pictured.

1st Apr 2011 23:32 UTCGlenn Rhein

Some new fluorescents....

2nd Apr 2011 00:10 UTCWayne Corwin

Wow Glenn

What galaxy's are those ?? :D


2nd Apr 2011 16:07 UTCGlenn Rhein

The Rutile looking crystal is in a mass of what looks like green scapolite and it also has some 1/4 inch purple fluorite crystals in it if that's any help to identify it.

I took a least 30 pictures and for some reason I just can't get a better picture on this new color pattern.

3rd Apr 2011 00:47 UTCGlenn Rhein

What are these new things ? Any guesses

3rd Apr 2011 00:48 UTCGlenn Rhein

I need help with these they are totally different than the rest....

3rd Apr 2011 04:16 UTCHershel Friedman

This is a tough set of photos! The top picture has a v-twin, so perhaps a twinned orthoclase or microcline? Just a guess. And the bottom one, forsterite would be my best guess, but its still too hard to tell forsure from those photos alone. Can you try to test the hardness of these?

3rd Apr 2011 05:01 UTCKeith Wood

Could also be monticellite The boat shape (picture 4311014) is typical of the olivine group minerals.

3rd Apr 2011 15:27 UTCGlenn Rhein

When I took those last pictures I had just cleaned the piece and it was wet. This morning it looked totally different.

Crystals are brown and where they are broken very glassy.

Chondrodite ? Largest crystal 1-1/4 inches

3rd Apr 2011 16:31 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

chond 008 looks greenish. could it be olivine liek stated before?

4th Apr 2011 02:23 UTCGlenn Rhein

Matt, there is green in picture 008 but look at the left side of the picture thats where the broken crystal is that I'm thinking is Chonrodite.With a loop its really honey brown clear. There is green all over this piece and I think that could be Olivine

I'm guessing these are green Pyroxene crystals. 16 inchs long, biggest crystal 2-1/2 inches long x 1-1/4 inches wide.

I also found this yesterday.

4th Apr 2011 03:30 UTCByron Thomas

Good god Glen will you ever stop looking for rocks your never going to get any work done. IM kidding this is what i would call the find of a life time. Your pictures always amaze me the fact there places like this still out there waiting to be found is exciting.


4th Apr 2011 05:24 UTCHershel Friedman

Another idea I had with your unknown new find is vesuvianite. The color is right, and vesuvianite does come sparingly from Amity. The crystals don't really match, but they could just be distorted. Just another thought...

4th Apr 2011 13:10 UTCGlenn Rhein

You are right Byron, weather is getting nicer, work is picking up and I won't have the time to find this stuff. I'll need help ! Come on over

Herschel, It also has a fluorescence like the Uvite. Whatever this stuff is its fun finding but the little V twin is very intriguing

6th Apr 2011 01:42 UTCRob (The Rock Hunter) Shepard

Glen I would like to set up a weekend to come up as we had discussed awhile ago.....

7th Apr 2011 13:26 UTCGlenn Rhein

Give me a call Robert.

A few small pockets of Quartz crystals on a large boulder, There is Quartz here but very few crystals.

Slight orange glow under SW UV

7th Apr 2011 19:04 UTCHershel Friedman

Quartz is unusual in the Franklin marble, so this is a significant find. I actually found some Quartz while working in the Passaic Pit in Sterling Hill 2 weeks ago and got excited about that.

12th Apr 2011 01:07 UTCRob (The Rock Hunter) Shepard

will do glenn i will call you tom morning

13th Apr 2011 23:27 UTCGlenn Rhein

I think this is a large pyramid shape Spinel with beveled edges about 1-1/2 inches wide on the bottom sitting against a very large broken Spinel ?

found today with other spinels

14th Apr 2011 00:33 UTCAndy Givens

glenn!!!!!! wowowowow! super super nice!


14th Apr 2011 00:43 UTCWayne Corwin

Sorry Glenn

I have to agree with Andy ! >:D<


Wayne Corwin

14th Apr 2011 03:28 UTCHershel Friedman

Certainly had the shape of Spinel, though a bit crude, but very large for the species. Hopefully this will be the first of many more! Glenn, what's the matrix material it was found in?

14th Apr 2011 04:02 UTCFred A. Schuster

Hi Glenn

I though comes to mind when I see the brown mineral. I am not thinking chondrite. It reminds me of Uvite tourmaline which does occur in grenvillian limestones. It reminds me a bit of the brown uvite with tremolite in marble in Gournerneur New York (the Bush Farm).

It is just an idea.


14th Apr 2011 04:46 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

wow those possible spinels are quite something. whats the size bout 3 inches? i see the dime but for me its hard to visualize it exactly

14th Apr 2011 11:02 UTCMatt Zukowski

Wow...just read through this entire thread and am so amazed at how glen's find (and his effort and generosity), and the effort of so many others, has developed into this fascinating story. Thanks to everyone and especially Glen.

Can anyone summarize how Glen's find relates to the wonderful mineralization at Franklin?

14th Apr 2011 13:01 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Matt, through your post, you've hit upon something that I've been thinking about. Part of the answer to your question lies in the the small write up that appears on the Mindat locality page for Glenn's property. But to me, there is a lot more to the story and your question, along with many other issues that would be perfect material for a Minrec. article or other scholarly publication. This "find" is in its infancy with interesting material being discovered seemingly by the day. Obviously, it's great to document it here, but it would have so much more meaning if someone, familiar with the ore bodies of Franklin/Sterling Hill took on this subject and wrote on it. As opposed to one hundred years from now like so many mines with significant minerology where important details have been lost to history.

I suppose you can argue that the geology of Amity/Warwick/Pine Island including Mounts Adam and Eve is well known from literature written long ago and that the marble exposed on his property through excavation and the mineralization encountered is not surprising. I disagree. It would be nice if Glenn's property could be analyzed and tied into the fabric that was woven by minerologists one hundred or so years ago.

14th Apr 2011 15:00 UTCWayne Corwin


Are the Spinel from rocks you found on your wall ?

Or have you started to excavate ?

Have you actually found a vein running across your property ?

If you have found a vein, you should really start documenting where you find

what in the vein so a trend of mineralization can be followed and listing what

minerals are found where and with what other minerals there.

As you dig deeper, you may find better quality minerals with less weathering.

You have a very fasinating project going Glenn . . :)


Wayne Corwin

14th Apr 2011 15:49 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

if there isnt a vein I dont think it would be in vain trying to find it. It has to be very close or perhaps it is a vein and has weathered???

14th Apr 2011 19:10 UTCByron Thomas

Give Wayne a break he is from Indiana or was from Indiana this explains the vain vein mess up. Just looking out for ya from a fellow Indiana brother.


14th Apr 2011 20:09 UTCWayne Corwin


Actually I'm a bad speller, and I'm from Massachusetts, not Indiana.

But I've been working vein minerals as a miner for 30 years, also pegmatites.

Even if I can't spell, I do know how to dig in vein's ,, LOL ,, thanks for the correction.


Wayne Corwin

14th Apr 2011 23:05 UTCGlenn Rhein

These are not off the wall. I walk through the woods turning over rocks looking for interesting stuff. This area is full of cool stuff.

I believe the brownish stuff is uvite because it fluoresses like the uvite I had tested. This is where I found the small spinels (1/2 inch) and the wing shape twin crystal which I also think is Uvite.

14th Apr 2011 23:34 UTCGlenn Rhein

Matt, the broken crystal in the back is over four inchs.

This piece is quite weathered but I gave it a short dip in acid to clean it. Full of small Spinels

15th Apr 2011 02:36 UTCJeff Weissman Expert

"I walk through the woods turning over rocks looking for interesting stuff. This area is full of cool stuff" Wow, when I walk through the woods in CT all I find is decomposed granite and come home with poison ivy and/or deer ticks.

Again, great finds!

15th Apr 2011 04:32 UTCHershel Friedman

Good finds, Glenn! Spinel is definitely the most coveted mineral from Amity. Glad you are finally finding these now.

17th Apr 2011 23:41 UTCGlenn Rhein

There are four minerals in the stuff I'm finding. Phlogopite for sure, Spinel, Olivine and Chondrodite (I'm Guessing) but all have Magnesium and are associated. What do you guys think ?

18th Apr 2011 03:05 UTCHershel Friedman

The reddish-brown is almost certainly chondrodite. It is often associated with spinel, and I have Chrondrodite from Amity that I found that looks very much like the reddish-brown in your last picture.

18th Apr 2011 17:56 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson


I just want to say again how important that book you are making is. I am so glad you are making an official record of what you are finding. You might want to consider including a map of your property in the book, and highlighting where on the property each group of minerals is coming from. That would be a very important addition!!

For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, last week, Glenn came to our mineral club meeting and presented a selection of his minerals for the club to examine. In addition, he showed us a book he started with photographs, various documentation, certificates, test results, etc, from everything that has been found to this point. It is, like David said, only the beginning of the documentation of this incredible place!

Keep up the great work, Glenn!!

21st Apr 2011 00:27 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks Jeff , The map is a good idea.

These meionites are covered with a hard shinny brown coating. Largest is about 1-1/4 inches

21st Apr 2011 02:24 UTCAndy Givens


25th Apr 2011 23:48 UTCGlenn Rhein

This weekends finds, I haven't had a chance to clean them up yet but some nice size Spinels. There are many but almost impossible to get them out of the rock without breaking them. 008 is a little over 1-1/4 inches.

26th Apr 2011 00:09 UTCJohn Davis (2)

Great stuff Glenn. Always look forward to viewing your post

26th Apr 2011 00:52 UTCWayne Corwin


You might try putting a 'test' piece in some muriatic acid.

Your Spinel's are in marble arn't they?

It may take some time but you should be able to get some

undamadged crystals out whole.

Worth a try.

Wayne Corwin

26th Apr 2011 04:28 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

Wayne Corwin Wrote:


> Glenn


> You might try putting a 'test' piece in some

> muriatic acid.

> Your Spinel's are in marble arn't they?

> It may take some time but you should be able to

> get some

> undamadged crystals out whole.

> Worth a try.


> Wayne Corwin

On the note that wayne made if you or someone you know can carefully saw some pieces out without cutting up spinels you can later dump them in acid as suggested to get liberated crystals

27th Apr 2011 23:03 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks Matt and Wayne, I put a test piece in some acid today, I'll post the results tomorrow.

A neat little fluorescent piece, it has a little orange glow fading into a blue haze.

29th Apr 2011 02:20 UTCGlenn Rhein

I put this piece in acid and checked it every five minutes for the first 1/2 hour then every hour for four hours. This stuff is way harder then most of the marble, a typical piece would have been completely dissolved. The acid ate away about a 1/4 inch of marble and revealed some Spinels but they are rough. Top one is kind of cool with some Phlogopite covering one side.

29th Apr 2011 03:21 UTCKeith Wood

Sometimes in ancient rocks that have been through a lot (such as multiple episodes of tectonics and additional metamorphism) the insoluble crystals (like your spinels) will develop tiny cracks that are healed with calcite. Dissolving the marble in such a case can just cause the crystals to crumble, whereas physically removing the calcite, while laborious, can expose nicely preserved crystals.

Nonetheless, etching with acid is worth a shot on specimens that have nothing else going going for them at first glance. You never know - some good crystals might still be in good shape inside, especially smaller ones that can tend to survive geologic process better than large ones. I have gotten a lot of nice specimens by etching rocks that looked like junkers from the outside. So don't be discouraged if your first result didn't produce much. The countless gallons of acid I have bought have been well worth it even though I have produced a pretty good share of duds. The winners you get more than make up for it. Keep it up!

29th Apr 2011 04:06 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

perhaps your marble is silicated or dolomitic. not sure if someone has mentioned that before but i imagine this is why it doesnt dissolve like normal marble

29th Apr 2011 04:10 UTCKeith Wood

Likely dolomitic with all that spinel around. There's got to b some magnesium around. Silicified parts of any carbonate would not dissolve at all. I used to dissolve ankerite and it also took a long time.

3rd May 2011 02:41 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks Keith and Matt for the info.

These Spinels are Purple and in Phlogopite and a softer marble and are easier to break out, largest one is thumb nail size. Second picture is a little hard to photograph but the spinels are nice and sharp

3rd May 2011 05:58 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

glenn, these new purple ones in the softer limestone could perhaps be in a different type, but similar limestone. Perhaps its the same unit or strata but these new ones arent silicified or dolomitic limestone and due to weathering may be softer. Try these in HCL if you want however like stated before if there is calcite holding these crystals together they could break apart. You'll probably want to do as before and watch them closely for a while.

On a separate note I love how the phlogopite, olivine, spinels, and sometimes your chondrodites all contrast with the limestone. you keep pulling out some great pieces :)-D

4th May 2011 00:30 UTCGlenn Rhein

A big thanks to Andy Givens, Wayne Corwin, Mike Royal and my son Greg who found the mother load.

Sunday was very productive. Spinels everywhere, everyone went home with a bunch.

I don't know what the record for Spinels on one rock but this could be it, I stopped counting at one hundred and there a many more.

4th May 2011 02:09 UTCStephanie Martin

Now that's Spinelivision! (tu)

You had me at purple. lol. (well actually before that, but who's checking)

Glenn, thanks again for continuing to share these amazing treats.

Stephanie :)

4th May 2011 21:03 UTCGlenn Rhein

You are quite the character aren't you Stephanie...Here are some purple close ups LOL

Two close ups pictures and one of a fresh break on the boulder. The entire thing is filled with Spinel and Uvite. The largest one hanging out is about 3/4 of an inch.

4th May 2011 23:04 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Great finds, Glenn. Hope to see you soon.

4th May 2011 23:35 UTCRob (The Rock Hunter) Shepard

Glen can we do Saturday may 21st.......and maybe Dave can come up?

5th May 2011 17:48 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson

Glenn- WOW!!

That's it. I'm totally speechless.

Spinel. The holy grail of Amity minerals. That boulder is ..... is...... Again, speechless.

5th May 2011 18:04 UTCWayne Corwin

Hi Glenn

Just want to say again,,, Thank you very much for a great time ! ! !

You sure are sitting on a treasure trove of fine minerals ! ! !

We all enjoyed it !

Below: Andy Givens, Mike Royal, and Glenn Rhein, working on some specimens.


Wayne Corwin

5th May 2011 18:46 UTCAndy Givens

Once again, Thanks for a hell of a great time sunday........ We all had a total blast. And Karen can cook a hell of a burger!!!!!! Fantastic!!! Thanks againn!!!!! Andy

7th May 2011 12:52 UTCGlenn Rhein

Nice group of purple Spinels and a larger one a bit crude but one inch long.

7th May 2011 15:17 UTCRob (The Rock Hunter) Shepard


10th May 2011 00:23 UTCGlenn Rhein

Not really sure what this is... 1-1/2 inches wide

10th May 2011 00:49 UTCMichael J. Bainbridge Expert

Looks like a classic tourmaline to me! The habit is very typical of schorl, but you can't say without analysis (easily dravite~uvite). Was this found in the same marble environment, or was it hosted in a different rock unit? Is there a slight coloured translucence (reddish) evident in the last photo, or is that a reflection?

10th May 2011 01:18 UTCRowan Lytle

I would agree with Michael. It looks a lot like one of my favorite Pierepont, NY uvites, but has a termination more like a schorl.


10th May 2011 03:09 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Glenn, that looks like the classic Franklin Marble uvite crystals complete with termination! When fractured or in cross section they often exhibit a darker exterior and a lighter interior. Check them with short wave ultraviolet and see if there is a yellow or brown response to the SWUV. Whatever you do do not try and etch them out of the marble with acid due to inclusions and fracture planes that can be filled with calcite in micro fissures and then you can end up with a nice crystal that falls apart. That is a very nice find Glenn.


10th May 2011 05:19 UTCWayne Corwin

Some Close ups of the Spinel's

more to come...


10th May 2011 05:25 UTCWayne Corwin

3 More Close ups of the Spinel's

a few more comming


10th May 2011 05:31 UTCWayne Corwin

More Close ups of the Spinel's

OK ,,,, thats all >:D<

What a great place Glenn has >:D<

KOR (Keep On Rockin') B)

Wayne Corwin

13th May 2011 01:27 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks Michael, Rowan and Steven. I certainly would like to find more of them, It is very cool.

Tonights finds, Spinels up to 1-1/2 inches right in the topsoil.

13th May 2011 01:48 UTCMichael J. Bainbridge Expert


13th May 2011 14:24 UTCWayne Corwin


Did you find those in the same area we dug the big boulder out of?

Were they loose in the soil around where the boulder was?



13th May 2011 23:40 UTCMike Royal

killer glenn

you will find lots of lose stuff around the place with a screen Ill bet

keep hunting and thanks for all the hospitality on the visit


14th May 2011 21:27 UTCGlenn Rhein

Last night I found the biggest one yet, just under two inches and purple.

These are the better ones from the last two nights.

14th May 2011 23:02 UTCWayne Corwin




15th May 2011 21:46 UTCGlenn Rhein

Group of Spinels on one side, Fluorite and this unusual green stuff ? on the other. Anyone know how to fix the picture error

15th May 2011 22:14 UTCStephanie Martin

Glenn - I'm definitely getting a case of spinel envy... :D

I've asked the managers to look into the image linking problems (happening on other threads too) and they are working on it.



16th May 2011 00:39 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

could the green be an altered olivine. maybe serpentine??? just a thought it kinda looks like serpentine to me check the hardness see if it scratches copper. I imagine it wont.

16th May 2011 02:00 UTCWayne Corwin


It looks like weathered serpentine to me.


16th May 2011 02:34 UTCHershel Friedman

See if the green stuff has a greasy feel. If so it is probably serpentine. It can also be identified by its low hardness - it is easy to scratch.

20th May 2011 17:29 UTCAndy Givens

happy spinel.

21st May 2011 04:37 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson


I can't even begin to thank you enough for the night UV dig at your house!! Ron, Bryan, Mike and I had an incredible time!! The UV mineral specimens we collected are insane!! Ron and your dog really hit it off!! You were a gracious host and we thank you for your hospitality. Hope to do it again soon. Maybe next time we can search for some of those spinels!! Thanks again.


24th May 2011 01:05 UTCGlenn Rhein

Wayne, Matt and Hershel I guess its Serpentine because it is fairly soft amd its mixed in with the Spinels.

Here are some really sharp and fairly large Spinels, One has an unusual shape ( kind of streched out) each over an inch

24th May 2011 09:40 UTCJohn Davis (2)

Glenn, there seems to be no end to the way cool stuff that you keep digging up. Keep it up and thanks for sharing with your photos

24th May 2011 13:32 UTCWayne Corwin


>:D< Keep It Up >:D<



27th May 2011 23:55 UTCGlenn Rhein

This calcite has some yellow and blue fluorescents and this metalic stuff. I tried some acid on the metalic stuff and it had no reaction. Could it be Pyrite ?

28th May 2011 15:20 UTCRowan Lytle

it probably is pyrite.


30th May 2011 00:47 UTCGlenn Rhein

My favorite Spinel yet, 1-1/2 inches

30th May 2011 00:54 UTCMaggie Wilson Expert

for good reason, Glenn! So glad that you are continuing to post!

30th May 2011 01:22 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Now that's a nice one, Glenn! Thanks for posting.

30th May 2011 04:08 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

my fav too!

30th May 2011 09:46 UTCAndy Givens


30th May 2011 21:07 UTCWayne Corwin


The pyrite looks like Pyrite,,, Cool find !

And your 1-1/2 inch Spinel is just fantastic with all the parallel growth on it !


5th Jun 2011 13:35 UTCGlenn Rhein

This piece I found in the same hole as the Spinels. The marble is peppered with black (Spinels) and then peppered with green (second picture).

Third picture has purple glow in the center ( Fluorite)

5th Jun 2011 16:01 UTCKeith Wood

Looks like it has slickensides -lineations due to shearing in a fault zone, unless that is parallel tremolite or some such mineral. But it looks like the fluorite is affected by the lineations, so I would say slickensides.

5th Jun 2011 17:58 UTCAndy Givens

great shot glenn!!!!!! sorry,,,,didnt make it to the monroe show, hope it was cool,

keep itup with the camera AND the diggin!!!!! !>:D

7th Jun 2011 01:51 UTCGlenn Rhein

Six inch solid mass of Spinel with uvite, largest single crystal is 3/4 of an inch

7th Jun 2011 02:59 UTCMichael J. Bainbridge Expert

Okay, now THAT is fantastic! Keep it coming Glen!

7th Jun 2011 07:47 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

I thought this looked more like stylolites (sp)

7th Jun 2011 16:16 UTCWayne Corwin


I have one question for you , , , , What are you going to do if the specimens keep getting better ??

X( X( X( X( X( X( X( X( X( X( X( X( X( X( X( X(

And I suspect they will >:D<


Wayne Corwin

7th Jun 2011 19:36 UTCEarl Verbeek Expert

Hi Glenn,

Your three photos of June 5 show minerals from a fault zone. In geologists' terms these are accretionary fibers, and they form as slip gradually accumulates on a fault. It's a bit difficult to put into words, but no fault is perfectly planar, so when a fault slips it's common for lenticular voids to open along it. If those voids are occupied by fluid and the slip occurs gradually enough, minerals often grow in a fibrous habit within the voids. Each fiber connects two points on the walls of the fault that were originally in contact, so one can trace exactly how the fault moved with time. Fibrous accretionary minerals within faults have contributed much to our knowledge of fluid movements within the Earth's crust, and how fluids react with the wallrocks with which they are in contact.

Cheers- Earl

7th Jun 2011 22:49 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson

Wow, Glenn!! GREAT finds!!! LOVE those spinels. Keep up the great work. By the way, doing the photos out in the sun adds a whole new dimension to the pictures. They look so much better! Thanks for posting!(tu):)-D

8th Jun 2011 00:54 UTCGlenn Rhein

Wayne, I guess I'll keep Mike Hawkins and the NYS museum guys busy if they get better.

Thanks everyone for the support and as long as I find stuff I'll keep posting.

This piece has a slickinside on the back and all kinds of stuff on the front. Dark red, light blue, gemmy green, orange, white and other colors

8th Jun 2011 03:50 UTCAndy Givens


8th Jun 2011 13:07 UTCGlenn Rhein

Some of the Spinels are magnetic !

8th Jun 2011 17:07 UTCRob Woodside Manager

Yes the whole Spinel group is a solution series and magnetite is one end member. It would be interesting to know how much magnetite is in these spinels.

12th Jun 2011 01:58 UTCGlenn Rhein

This mica came from the same spot as the Spinels and has that same blue-purple color. Look at the difference between the two colors

Anyone know what is making it and the Spinels that color ?

12th Jun 2011 04:19 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Hi Glenn,

Nice specimen finds! The mica which I am assuming is phlogopite, as the dominant mica of the Franklin Marble, can have a number of inclusions between layers such as tremolite fibers, rutile, calcite and as you have noted fluorite as well This might be what is giving you the purple color.


12th Jun 2011 05:38 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

Glenn it could be very possible manganese is making that colour i think it would make some sense too if its franklin units.


12th Jun 2011 16:52 UTCGlenn Rhein

I found some great stuff yesterday, but It seems I might have come to the end in this spot. The dirt and rock have changed, more clay and round smooth rock.

Steve, I think your right about the Fluorite, I broke this piece off a boulder and soaked it in acid. Notice the purple Fluorite spots

I'll send some samples out and have them tested

Third picture center crystal is 13 mm

12th Jun 2011 18:11 UTCSpencer Ivan Mather

I believe that the scapolite crystals may be pseudomorphs, and that now they are feldpar? I have many similar from Norway, Scotland and Canada!

12th Jun 2011 21:52 UTCGlenn Rhein

A few of saturdays finds, They seem to have some unusual groupings. Last picture is really cool one large Spinel made up of many smaller ones.

All three about 1-1/4 inches at the widest point.

14th Jun 2011 19:02 UTCGlenn Rhein

A ten inch ball of Spinels, Hundreds of sharp crystals. Large one on top over an inch.

Pictures don't do this one justice !

14th Jun 2011 21:26 UTCAndy Givens

NICE!!!!!!!!!! ::o ::o

14th Jun 2011 22:45 UTCWayne Corwin


Thats a Knock Out piece ;)


15th Jun 2011 02:11 UTCJohn Davis (2)

You amaze me everytime I check your post. Great piece!

Keep on Rockin Bud!


15th Jun 2011 05:16 UTCHershel Friedman


I found some Scapolite crystals in the area, but they have a yellowish dirty layer on them. I remember seeing one of your posts where you mentioned how you cleaned off these scapolite's nicely. If you don't mind would you be able to post what you did to clean them off to make them shine white?


15th Jun 2011 07:38 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

@ herschel

found this browsing through some the earlier posts around the first page maybe pg 3 dont really remember. it had the photos of cleaned scapolites

Glenn Rhein Wrote:


> Super iron out makes all the difference. 20

> minutes in the ultrasonic cleaner

> 2 inch scapolite and 3-1/2 inch diopside

15th Jun 2011 18:31 UTCHershel Friedman

Thanks Matt. I remembered a discussion about this earlier in the forum, but its grown to 22 pages and its hard to find things earlier on! Glad you found it and posted...

15th Jun 2011 22:50 UTCGlenn Rhein

Marion and Mike from the NYS museum came down and picked up the first load today (Great Guys)

We split open the boulder that had a Azurite band running through it and found some Malachite.

Also possibly found some Sphalerite mixed in Fluorite, will have to wait for the tests.

Yellow fluorescent still does not have a name, more tests on the way, The samples are getting brighter and bigger

16th Jun 2011 11:43 UTCRowan Lytle

Just beautiful!


23rd Jun 2011 00:28 UTCGlenn Rhein

Show and tell with the neighbors, I was showing some minerals we found so Rich had to show off his really cool Moose-Elk he found in the black dirt just down the road. My grandson was impressed !

23rd Jun 2011 01:24 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson


23rd Jun 2011 01:25 UTCWayne Corwin

Thats cool

23rd Jun 2011 01:51 UTCMichael Jones

I love this thread and btw thats definetly a moose lower/upper jaw and skull with antlers elk dont get spoons pretty much

23rd Jun 2011 01:51 UTCMichael Jones

sorry double post

23rd Jun 2011 22:24 UTCChris Rohricht

Wow Glenn!!! My hat is off to you!! You admitted at the beginning of this blog that you had no Geology background or even collected as a hobby. I look at your posts now that are brimming with the knowledge your have gained. Your photographic skills are wonderful now, and your enthusiasm in posting is second to none. You've gone out and acquired all the tools off the trade that a professional collector would buy, all in a very short period of time. To say you are hooked is an understatement; I envy the position you are in. Congratulations on a fantastic discovery and keep up the good work.

26th Jun 2011 00:45 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks, Chris, Michael, Wendy and everyone else for your input to make this a great experience.

This Tremolite crystal is bigger than most here at 1-3/4 inches and bright blue under short wave UV. There are hundreds in this 10 inch piece of marble but most are small and they all have that nice blue fluorescent color.

26th Jun 2011 02:41 UTCRowan Lytle

that is a nice one!


27th Jun 2011 02:39 UTCGlenn Rhein

Breaking up some marble looking for some nice fluorescent pieces I started to find these pink crystals, could they be Corundum ?

Third picture is a pink spot on mica.

27th Jun 2011 04:33 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert


It looks correct. Try the simple Long Wave UV response usually any pink to red daylight colored corundum from the Franklin Marble will fluoresce bright red ( in my experience about 100%). If you examine the crystal under a low power microscope you should see the typical cleavages of corundum. The association with phlogopite is fairly common. There may be tiny black rutile crystals in the matrix also. Keep an eye out for margarite in this material as well.

Hope this helps,


27th Jun 2011 19:23 UTCHershel Friedman

Definitely the right color and crystal shape for Amity corundum. The certain way to test it is to try to scratch it with one of your spinels - not much in Amity is harder than spinel (except maybe zircon which is around the same). If it doesn't get scratched by spinel than it most certainly is corundum!

28th Jun 2011 04:03 UTCGlenn Rhein

Steve, It is a bright red under LW UV . For some reason I never check anything with LW , I guess its time to start

Hershel , I could not scratch it with a Spinel

So it looks like it is Corundum. (very cool) Thanks Guys.

This picture is both SW and LW UV light.

Norbergite is bright yellow, Phlogopite is a greenish yellow, Corundum is bright red and the white I think is a secondary calcite that has a really nice Phosphorescence

Nice blue also unfortunately its on the backside

28th Jun 2011 07:17 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

glen those are some great new combos!!! loving the corundum you finding lots of it? was it specific to a certain area? it there is more rock or dirt in that area it's be worth digging a little more I think. just my thoughts (tu) :)-D

29th Jun 2011 00:32 UTCGlenn Rhein

Matt, I have a couple of boulders that are really weatherd and break relatively easy, They are full of nice small gemmy Diopside crystals and Norbergite.

I was breaking up one for a nice fluorescent sample and noticed the pink crystals. Not sure how much there is but found these today.

Jeff, you should check the stuff you got from here with LW UV , I found the Corundum in one of the boulders you guys were trying to break up out back and also the green crystals you got from that boulder are Diopside not Fluor-edenite.

I have a busy few weeks coming up, won't have much time for digging or posting (sorry)

29th Jun 2011 01:45 UTCByron Thomas

Ohhhh god how i wish to be there. I envy you, again with the awsome rocks.


29th Jun 2011 04:22 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Congratulations Glenn,

That is what I expected to see, nice!!

By the way did you know that on rare occasions the Franklin Marble can be host to pink-red spinels that fluoresce red as well as the corundums. I have not seen the red fluorescence in any other color range for the spinels and they are certainly a much scarcer find BUT you never know what may appear in the Marble.


29th Jun 2011 10:17 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

very nice glenn! looks like some graphite might be on that crystal. the stuff you keep pulling out is amazing!

29th Jun 2011 17:57 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson


Thanks for the heads up! I will fire up the LW light and see what happens!! I didn't notice any pink crystallization in my stuff, but that doesn't mean it's not there....


3rd Jul 2011 04:27 UTCAndy Givens

GOOOD GOD GLENN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (:P) (:P) (:P)

do enjoy..... awesome awesome awesome!


19th Jul 2011 00:51 UTCRob (The Rock Hunter) Shepard

What beautiful stuff you keep finding Glenn, I have to def make it up your way before summer ends.

23rd Jul 2011 18:05 UTCGlenn Rhein

This little guy is in the shape of a Octohedron

23rd Jul 2011 18:25 UTCStephanie Martin

That's really nice, Glenn! Did you check to see if it fluoresces?



23rd Jul 2011 20:31 UTCRowan Lytle

Nice little one!


25th Jul 2011 00:01 UTCJohn Davis (2)

It never stops does it Glenn. New stuff all the time. Glad to see you're doing so well

25th Jul 2011 00:01 UTCJohn Davis (2)

It never stops does it Glenn. New stuff all the time. Glad to see you're doing so well

31st Jul 2011 22:55 UTCGlenn Rhein

The rain over the last three weeks washed the dirt away, these and more were laying right on top of the dirt pile.

1st Aug 2011 02:28 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Glenn, nice finds!!

Some of those spinels may be pseudomophs or partly pseudomorphed if one is sacrificed and cut in half or if you accidently fracture one and there is little to no "glassy" appearance to the spinels interior then it may be pseudomorphed.


1st Aug 2011 03:55 UTCAndy Givens

pseudomorphed to what steve??????

1st Aug 2011 12:58 UTCWayne Corwin

Hey Glenn

Isn't it nice what alot of rain can wash off !

No matter where I collect, I always start with seeing what has washed off from previous digging.

Some of my best finds have come from what someone, (if not me myself) have left lying around

and missed because it was "to dirty" to see !

At the Tripp mine, we use ample amounts of water sorting thru the rubble, and that increases

the 'good finds' by almost double.

Keep On Rockin'

Wayne Corwin

1st Aug 2011 20:15 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Andy, I have seen on one extreme serpentine type mineralization replacing spinel and on the other extreme corundum can replace spinel but it would definitely fluoresce in Long Wave UV. There are other possibilities in the marble.


1st Aug 2011 22:29 UTCGlenn Rhein

OK Steve, Here are the results of my tests.

I broke off a Black Spinel from the sample in the second picture and broke it open. It was glassy inside.

I then took a purple Spinel from the sample in the third picture, broke it open and it looks the same on the inside as it does on the outside, not to shiney. This sample has some purple Fluorite mixed in. Is it true the Fluorite is much younger then the Spinel ? If so has the Fluorite changed the Spinel into something else. ( It did change the color of the Spinel)

The third sample of Spinel is from the picture I posted last night, When I broke some of them open they were a whitish color inside. I would guess they have pseudomorphed into somthing else just like the Uvite that I found pseudomorphed into Serpentine. What do you think ?

3rd Aug 2011 23:39 UTCGlenn Rhein

I'm digging in a new spot and came up with some pink marble with clear green crystals and gemmy Norbergite.

Its very different than what I've been finding. The Norbergite is the only thing that fluoresses. Anyone have any guesses what they are ?

4th Aug 2011 02:50 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Hi Glenn, I think you are on the right track deciphering what may be pseudomorphed and what is still original spinel.

The opaque yellow-brown crystals looked like they were pseudos. Many of the Franklin Marble spinels can have inclusions of other minerals. I have seen calcite, graphite, corundum, fluorite, margarite and rutile inclusions. One of the oddest replacements of uvite I encountered was margarite and rutile entirely replacing the original. Have fun sleuthing out the mysteries of the Marble!


5th Aug 2011 20:22 UTCGlenn Rhein

Some new fluorescent pieces but the best is yet to come. I found the best fluorescent pieces yet but I can't get good photo's. I'll have to work on the pictures this weekend.

7th Aug 2011 16:01 UTCWayne Corwin


Better ? . . . BETTER ???

Sheesh... those are Great !

But I won't mind looking at any of your photo's, no matter 'good, better or Best' !

Keep On Rockin'

Wayne Corwin

7th Aug 2011 17:49 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert


8th Aug 2011 01:09 UTCAndy Givens

serpentine from glens !!!

8th Aug 2011 23:17 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hey Andy, nice pictures...I need to borrow your camera

This stuff is purple (like Fluorite) and white pearlescent looking and fluoresses really cool !

9th Aug 2011 23:47 UTCGlenn Rhein

Picture two looks like outer space.

10th Aug 2011 00:57 UTCAndy Givens

nice nice nice

11th Aug 2011 17:42 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson


Glenn, it just amazes me what you are finding. The spinels, the flourescents. I have a similar "outer space" piece from our last trip. They are very cool to look at!!

Great finds!! I've got to get back over there soon.

20th Aug 2011 01:32 UTCRob (The Rock Hunter) Shepard

Glen what are you doing tuesday????

21st Aug 2011 05:52 UTCGlenn Rhein

The first picture is a nice group of Appitite, Meionite, and Diopside

Second picture is a mass of unknown black crystals from a piece of marble I soaked in acid.


23rd Aug 2011 02:24 UTCGlenn Rhein

Call Me about Tuesday Rock Hunter, I sent you a PM.

New stuff from out back, its black and glossy.( can't tell from the picture) Maybe Titanite in there, not sure.

26th Aug 2011 23:17 UTCRowan Lytle

Hmm... that's a tough one, but the first looks like tourmaline, and the last does look like titanite.


4th Sep 2011 22:17 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks Rowan, I think its Titanite too....

I'm digging right at the contact point and in this case its fused together but still some small crystals and maybe Pyrite but Its very silvery looking.

5th Sep 2011 15:51 UTCWayne Corwin

New Article

Amity Minerals are ‘Biggest Discovery in NYS in 25 Years’

By: Thomas Naples - Posted on August 8, 2011

Click on link below
Glenn's Minerals

5th Sep 2011 18:48 UTCGlenn Rhein


I scratched with a pin and it didn't scratch but it flacked off.

I broke a piece off and hit it with a torch and it got red hot and lost its sheen but wouldn't melt.

It left a grey streak on a piece of marble, nothing on paper.

I can see pyrite also on the rock but its a gold color and this is more like a silver color.

5th Sep 2011 19:30 UTCWayne Corwin


You should use a piece of unglazed porcelain like the back of a white tile or the underside

of a toilet tank lid to do your streak test on.

It may be Arsenopyrite.



5th Sep 2011 22:48 UTCRowan Lytle

yeah, it looks like some of the old CT arsenopyrites from near Cobalt.

6th Sep 2011 02:54 UTCJim Bean

When you streak it, if it smells like garlic it should be arsenopyrite.

6th Sep 2011 04:40 UTCKeith Wood

Great finds, Glenn. I especially like the corundum. Pink corundum is very cool.

6th Sep 2011 19:12 UTCHershel Friedman

Another possibility of the silvery stuff is loellingite. Its similar to arsenopyrite and found at Franklin.

6th Sep 2011 19:13 UTCGlenn Rhein

Yeah Keith, I agree pink corundum is cool.. unfortunately I haven't found that much of it.

New clues....

No smell of garlic

extremely magnetic

Is starting to tarnish to a bronze color in one day of digging it up.

7th Sep 2011 00:35 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Perhaps Pyrrhotite in light of it's magnetism? I was about to agree with Heshy on Llolingite in light of the large deposit of it on Mount Adam I think, not to far away from where you are.

7th Sep 2011 03:02 UTCHershel Friedman

This may sound totally farfetched, but could it be native terrestrial iron? On the one hand, native iron is strongly magnetic (few minerals are strongly magnetic), and also oxidizes very quickly, which is what Glenn is describing. On the other hand, native terrestrial iron is extremely rare, especially in such a large size. And it usually originates in igneous basalt, not metamorphosed marble. It definitely looks too silvery from the photos to be magnetite, and while pyrrhotite is a good suggestion, it is only mildly magnetic, not strongly magnetic as Glenn is describing.

7th Sep 2011 04:10 UTCKeith Wood

Good bet it's pyrrhotite. Bronzy color and magnetic is a giveaway for that. It is often associated with other sulfides. It is common to be able to see small bright yellow chalcopyrite flecks in it if you have any copper running around.

7th Sep 2011 05:01 UTCHershel Friedman

The color would definitely indicate pyrhottite, but the magnetism seems too strong. The magnetism of pyrhottite is not as strong as magnetite and I wouldn't think it would stick to the magnet that well. Though it could just be a strong magnet and an individual piece with good magnetism. And pyrrhotite is definitely found in the region.

7th Sep 2011 20:16 UTCRob Woodside Manager

The silvery seems a reflection and the true colour seems brown. That and the magnetism shout Pyrrhotite, but I couldn' tfind any data on fusibility. In reducing flame (the blue bit) on charcoal fuses to a black magnetic mass and in the oxidising flame (the yellow bit) on charcoal it fuses to red iron oxide. No reaction on heating in a closed glass tube, but sulfurous fumes come off in open tube. Does this agree with your propane torch attack? Pyrrhotite will decompose in HCl..

8th Sep 2011 01:11 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks to everyone for all the detective work. Last night I searched magnetic minerals and looked at many pictures of Pyrrhotite and my conclusion was that is most likely Pyrrhotite. Came home tonight and read Robs comment about Pyrrhotite decomposing in HCL so I broke off a 1/8" thick by 3/16" wide and 3/8" long piece and dropped it in HCL. Guess what ? Nothing happened. Its been in for an hour and it dosen't appear any different.

I will leave it overnight and see in the morning but I don't think it will dissolve. Now what ?

One thing for sure is that some, not all have gone from silvery to bronze and all the pieces are very magnetic. As for the torch I put high heat and got it red hot several times and not much happened except the color went from silver to dark gray.

8th Sep 2011 05:16 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

I've encountered large masses of mostly pure pyrrhotite in pegmatite. The color and magnetism is probably that. out of all the times i used hcl dunno if i ever dropped my suspected pyrrhotite in there but i used super iron out. my impurites were pyrite balls, chalcopyrite and a radioactive which im looking to get analyzed. its not from the same area. but im still guessing is pyrrhotite. neat stuff for being such a large mass.

11th Sep 2011 02:14 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hey Rob, Remember your post about the amount of Magnetite in the Spinel, well it turns out that the Magnetite is on the Spinels and not in them.

Under a microscope you can see some of the Spinels have a layer of tiny Magnetites coating them and thats why some appeared magnetic. cool stuff !

Stephanie, The little ocahedron does have a nice fluorescent red color (long ago post).

The Pyrrhotite did dissolve after a full two days in HCL.

This Massive piece of Chondrodite has a little vug of Spinel and Chondrodite crystals.

11th Sep 2011 05:48 UTCStephanie Martin

Glenn, thanks for confirming my suspicion re the spinel fluorescence.

Nice to see a conclusion on the latest mystery material. Your finds continue to be interesting as well as entertaining!


stephanie :)

16th Sep 2011 01:03 UTCGlenn Rhein

These pieces are just loaded with Graphite and Norbergite.

16th Sep 2011 07:02 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

wow glenn amazing pieces. nice chondrodite. every time u post i have nothing more to say than WOW

18th Sep 2011 03:01 UTCElizabeth Apgar Triano

Thanks, Glenn! I met your wife today at the Mid-Hudson show in Rhinebeck, and meant to meet you as well but I think maybe you were looking busy? Anyway I didn't want to bother you. Your wife is lovely. :-) The case at the show looked super. Here's a photo for interested parties. The show will be going on tomorrow as well, September 18, folks.

18th Sep 2011 04:47 UTCWayne Corwin


Great photo !

Glenn, Great Minerals !

24th Sep 2011 23:01 UTCRob Woodside Manager

Back from Denver. Glenn, I'm puzzled by your "pyrrhotite". The chemistry of Pyrrhotite is quite variable but it sounds like time for an analysis.

26th Sep 2011 02:43 UTCGlenn Rhein

A really nice 5/8 inch Chondrodite crystal, huge chunks and massive Chondrodite with thousands of tiny Spinels.

Rob, you're right. I'll send it out for testing...

26th Sep 2011 04:09 UTCHershel Friedman

Regarding the Pyrrhotite, I was at Glenn's site to observe recent finds and sources, and personally observed the Pyrhottite. It is definitely Pyrhottite - I found confirmed Pyrhottite in a very similar formation nearby in the Precambrian Highlands region.

26th Sep 2011 04:12 UTCWayne Corwin




26th Sep 2011 08:02 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

I was going to say it earlier and held back. I could be wrong but in my opinion those are best chondrodites outside of tilly foster and afghanistan. Amazing

29th Sep 2011 02:22 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

I feel compelled to point out that we are less then two weeks from the one year anniversary of this thread. If you haven't done so, and even if you have, take a read from the beginning. It's damn exciting.:)-D hope we will still be reading and admiring more cool finds a year from now.

1st Oct 2011 04:32 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hey Matt, what do you think of these ? Some of the Chondrodites are half green !

David, There is a lot more stuff here but I don't think I can top what I found in the past year.. but who knows

1st Oct 2011 14:47 UTCKeith Wood

Those green ones may have been partially altered to chlorite by later fluids. Nice specimen.

5th Oct 2011 00:09 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks Keith...

Broke up the first small boulder ( about 24 inchs) and got some nice Titanites but lost some too.

One inch Titanite and Apatite on Diopside

loose Titanites

6th Oct 2011 01:21 UTCGlenn Rhein

The best Titanite group, Great lustre and large 1-1/2 inch crystals.

6th Oct 2011 01:54 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Insane, gulp....

7th Oct 2011 00:28 UTCRowan Lytle

wow, wow, wow!!!!!!!!!!::o keep 'em commin!


7th Oct 2011 00:53 UTCAndy Givens

i think u WILL top it


9th Oct 2011 04:29 UTCGreg Kokolus


Just a note to let everyone in the PA, NY, NJ area know that Glenn will be speaking Monday, October 17th, 7:30 at the Pennsylvania Earth Sciences monthly meeting held in Whitehall, PA. Whitehall is in the Allentown, PA area and right off Route 22. The exact location is the Helfrich Springs Grist Mill at the intersection of Mickley and Lehnert Roads.

The club extends a cordial invitation to anyone wanting to come and meet Glenn and hear his talk on the remarkable finds on his property.

For those seeking more information, please feel free to contact me.


Greg Kokolus

15th Oct 2011 21:31 UTCGlenn Rhein

This nice two inch Apitite broke on a fracture line and I found it to be hollow inside.

15th Oct 2011 22:11 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Now that's interesting. Reminds me of a diseased tooth. Lol

17th Oct 2011 22:59 UTCRowan Lytle



18th Oct 2011 15:46 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


I enjoyed your lecture last evening at the Pennsylvania Earth Science Association meeting and want to thank you for bringing some of the specimens you previously posted here. The hands on experience and the ability to examine the specimens, was the icing on the cake.

Best wishes,


18th Oct 2011 17:02 UTCWayne Corwin


I missed Glenn's talk :(

I would have loved to see it, did anyone record his talk and get photo's of his displays?

If so ... can we see them please ?


Your specimens have been getting better and better steadly,,, So .. at this rate,

by this time next year your specimens should be better than the best ones now

by a factor of 3 or 4 . . . oh what the heck, maybe a factor of 10 ! >:D<

Wayne Corwin

24th Oct 2011 03:41 UTCGreg Kokolus


Sorry to say that we didn't document or photograph Glenn's talk at our recent PESA meeting.

I will say that it was enjoyed by all in attendance and it was great that our members got to see firsthand some of his finds.

For those of you that haven't met Glenn personally, his wife Karen has also started to become a knowledgeable collector and added her commentary to the presentation.

30th Oct 2011 20:41 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hey Wayne, you're putting the pressure on. I'm happy to find anything new. You will just have to come down and help me find some stuff.

Thanks to all at the PESA club for their interest and hospitality. Their meeting is held in a wonderfull old grist mill and they have a super friendly group of knowledgable people, good food too. If you live anywhere close its worth checking out.

Nice shiny black Spinels on Chondrodite 3/4 to 1-1/4 inches overall

30th Oct 2011 22:17 UTCRowan Lytle


30th Oct 2011 23:09 UTCAndy Givens

just awesome!


13th Nov 2011 05:21 UTCWayne Corwin


Those are really great !

Keep them comming, pics too !

I'll have to check my calender !


14th Nov 2011 22:27 UTCGlenn Rhein

Two new big Spinels that are made up of tiny Spinels...Check out the tiny spinel that makes the top of the spinel in the last picture

14th Nov 2011 23:35 UTCRowan Lytle

Nice size! bigger than my spinals....

15th Nov 2011 00:31 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hey Rowan,

You should come diggin with us ! Keep us rolling.

Here's a nice Fluorescent Piece.

15th Nov 2011 00:39 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Beautiful, Glenn!

15th Nov 2011 02:08 UTCStephanie Martin

I second that! For all the spinels too!

Yes, just lurking here in the dark...

stephanie :)

21st Nov 2011 23:33 UTCGlenn Rhein

Ok Stephanie, maybe these pink Spinels I found today will get you out of the dark !

First small one is 5/16 of an and semi clear, second is in the marble a little bigger, third is 1/2 inch and pink pink !

22nd Nov 2011 00:33 UTCRowan Lytle


22nd Nov 2011 01:48 UTCKeith Wood

Now you're talkin!

22nd Nov 2011 03:40 UTCStephanie Martin

LOL Glenn, actually I think I'll hang out here in the dark a bit longer... waiting to see those pink babies light up... hehe

And the great stuff continues...

stephanie :)

22nd Nov 2011 04:37 UTCFred A. Schuster


who would have know that day I met you, and started to dig around that there was so much more!! Wow !!

Were the spinels from near where the gas pipe line was going to go in?


22nd Nov 2011 13:33 UTCGlenn Rhein

Fred this picture is of a old dirt road that connects from my house to my neighbors in the back, Being a nice guy, I gave him an easement to cross my property with his electric line. It saved him a couple hundred yards of digging through tuff rock to get to the electric transformer.

When we dug the ditch we hit lots of large loose marble boulders. They were piled along side of the dirt road and this is where the pink Spinels and all the fluorescents are coming from. I lift a large boulder with my excavator and drop it onto another boulder and usually after a couple of times one breaks. I get out and look for stuff. The field you see in the back right side of the picture is where I first met you. That is the gas pipe line on our back 10 acre lot. I only wish I knew then what I know now, They dug a eight foot deep ditch through the property. There was a mountain of marble that got burried in that same field.

28th Nov 2011 05:32 UTCMatt Severs

Hi All,

To all the geology educators out there, I can honestly say that visiting Glenn's property was one of the best experiences that my Mineralogy class (Stockton College in New Jersey) and I have ever had for collecting and getting first-hand experience looking at contacts and determining a variety of minerals from an association-based identification ideology. The students were pretty unanimous that it was the best trip of any geology trip at Stockton. Even to me, this is my favorite field trip!

Some of the students are hoping that I can organize another trip up there next Spring or Summer because they won't get to go again. I plan on coming back regardless in two years when Mineralogy runs again.

Best trip and thanks for being such a generous and wonderful host Glenn.

Matt Severs

28th Nov 2011 13:25 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert

Hi, Matt,

Without trying to embarass Glenn and his wife I have to say they are the most selfless property owners I have ever met in 50 years of collecting minerals. Recently they drove over 200 miles round trip to speak at our club meeting in Allentown, Pa and have allowed multiple people to visit and collect on their property. They realize the significance of what was found on their property and have welcomed the scientific community to do their research. They have put science ahead of profit and in this day and age they are unique.



28th Nov 2011 17:57 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson


I could not have said that any better myself. I have been to Glenn's twice now, and I totally agree. Glenn and Karen are the friendliest folks I have met in a long time. They are so gracious to let total strangers on their land and and in their home, and do so with open arms. As you said, a very rare find these days. I actually feel bad not going more often as I live only 20 minutes away, but at the same time I am very conscious about becoming a "pest". But that also makes me look forward to my next visit even more! Glenn- I've said it before and I'll say it again.... THANK YOU for bringing this extremely important find to all of us and allowing many of us to experience it first-hand. You rock!!

29th Nov 2011 23:58 UTCGlenn Rhein

I would like to thank everyone for their kind words. But on the flipside, everyone that has come here has been extremely helpful by sharing their knowledge and experiences with us. We learn something from each person that comes to explore and see what is here. Overall, it's been an incredible experience. We've met new friends . . . and also a big thanks to all on Mindat that have contributed to this thread. The advise and support you have given me has inspired me to go out and find new things.

Here's a photo of a 2-1/4 inch Norbergite flower on a 6 inch piece of Franklin marble.

One of the guys from the Pennsylvania Mineral Club dug up this quarter-size clam fossil on Saturday while looking for Spinels.

He gave it to my grandson Austen

30th Nov 2011 02:33 UTCKeith Wood

Glenn, Was the fossil on your land also? If so you must have overlapping formations of a younger age. Unless I am mistaken the Franklin marble is precambrian, and that fossil is most definitely younger.

30th Nov 2011 12:50 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Keith, I saw the fossil about five minutes after it was found. By the way, really super kind gesture of Nick to hand off the fossil to Glenn's grandson. The fossil was found off Glenn's property but not that far away. Nick initially thought it was a nut. It was uncovered during excavation of a pit that had produced Spinel and in an area that was rich in marble.

30th Nov 2011 13:27 UTCKeith Wood

That sure is odd. The metamorphism of that area predates such critters, and was too high grade for something like that to survive anyway. I wonder what its story is.

30th Nov 2011 17:41 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert


Maybe an expert on fresh water mullosks can take a look at the specimen. Native Americans harvested such things from the Walkill River and the Hudson. There are also other possibilities: was the specimen brought down to the area during the last ice age (how close is Glenn's property to geologic formations which contain such fossils), was it left there by a previous occupant who owned the property, etc? Without an expert's opinion anything is possible and we will never know for sure.



30th Nov 2011 22:45 UTCGlenn Rhein


I've only found a couple of fossils around the property. I think Joe is right on. About a mile west is the Pine Island black dirt region and a mile south east is an area they used to call the great swamp. Along the river in Pine Island there were many native American settlements and many fossils, Indian artifacts, Mastadons and even a few Moose Elks found.

There is a museum in Monroe NY (The next town over from Warwick) called Museum village. museumvillage.org They have the most complete Mastadon ever found on display as well as a good representation of minerals from Orange county, its worth a visit if you are in the area. Pine Island also has a club called the Drowned lands Historical Society. http://dlhs.wordpress.com/ They are trying to fund a small Museum for all their finds. The marble belt through amity is less then a mile wide and some spots way less.

Here is a picture of the pink Spinel LW UV

Also a nice contrast of Haylite and Meionite I found when I broke open a large granite boulder

1st Dec 2011 01:05 UTCGreg Kokolus

Hi Glenn:

If you recall, I showed you a piece of gray radiating material that was found in the piles of white marble with the small green Fluor-edentite xls.

It was definately fluorescent blue under uv. You had suggested that it was another version of Fluor-edenite. One of three types if I recall the conversation.

I went back to the photos for your location and the same material that I believe that I have is shown under the heading of Tremolite. It was noted as having blue fluorescence as well. Can you comment?


Greg Kokolus

1st Dec 2011 01:59 UTCHershel Friedman

Glenn's property is near the edge of the Precambrian marble belt, and only a few thousand feet to the west are sedimentary shales typical of the Wallkill River Valley. These shales produce fossils, and it is most likely that the fossils near Glenn are the result of glacial movement.

1st Dec 2011 03:32 UTCGlenn Rhein


All of the photo's below are Fluor-edenite. Early on I identified a similar sample as Tremolite but if it came from the marble alongside of the road it is Fluor-edenite. It was all tested by the NYS Museum at Albany and by George Robinson at the Seaman Mineral Museum at Michigan tech.

Here is were the confusion comes from. Tremolite and Edenite are in the same SubGroup of Amphiboles, the Ca Amphiboles.

Tremolite- Calcium Magnesium Iron Silicate Hydroxide and Edenite -Sodium Calcium Magnesium Iron Aluminum Silicate Hydroxide. So you can't go by looks on this one.

10th Dec 2011 21:01 UTCGlenn Rhein

These are the first brown Spinels. This piece has over 75 Spinels with 7 Spinels at 1/2 inch or more.

10th Dec 2011 22:55 UTCRowan Lytle

nice luster on those babies!

10th Dec 2011 23:19 UTCStephanie Martin

Glenn, next you might be finding blue ones! Thanks for showing the UV glow of the pinkies. That was great, along with the very cute norbergite flower, it was worth hanging out in the dark a little longer to see those!

Thanks for continuing to share your finds and keep us entertained.


stephanie :-)

11th Dec 2011 04:02 UTCHershel Friedman

Glenn, are those spinel's showing a partial cubic habit? It looks like that from the picture. That would be an interesting habit from Amity.

11th Dec 2011 21:27 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hershel, They are not cubic it just looks that way in the photo but some have an unusual shape. Twins maybe ? Here's a close up of a couple different looking ones.

11th Dec 2011 22:17 UTCRowan Lytle

Twins. cool lookin!

12th Dec 2011 00:50 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Classic spinel twins, looks like I can see a bit of pink to purple translucency on some crystals. Did you check them for fluorescent response?


12th Dec 2011 05:10 UTCHershel Friedman

Yes, that's the classic twinned Spinel habit. Never seen that before at Amity.
Take a look at this 3D animation (java required) where you can see the same twinning habit.

12th Dec 2011 22:42 UTCGlenn Rhein

Steven Kuitems Wrote:


> Classic spinel twins, looks like I can see a bit

> of pink to purple translucency on some crystals.

> Did you check them for fluorescent response?

> Steve.

There are five areas where I have found Spinels and they are all different.

The first area the Spinels are laced with calcite in Serpentine and if you put them in acid they fall apart.

Second area 100 feet away the Spinels are in very brown mica. Maroon and brown Spinels and some pink translucency as you stated.

Third area is another 100 feet away and the Spinels are a Greyish purple and some are pseudomorphs.

Nothing in these areas fluoress.

Forth area is a good distance away and they are jet black and with massive Chondrodite and a little Fluorescent Norbergite.

Fifth area is close to the house and Spinels are pink. This area is a couple hundred feet long and most all the Fluorescent material is from here.

15th Dec 2011 17:47 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson

Very interesting, Glenn. The fact that so many variations of the spinel can be found in such a small area. Wow, learning more and more every day.

Did we ever figure out the yellow flourescents? If you remember, I had some pale yellows and some darker golden yellows that I found in the boulders that I was interested in identifying. We ID'd the golden yellow as Norbergite, but did you ever get an ID on the pale yellow?


15th Dec 2011 21:48 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hey Jeff, I'm glad you brought up fluorescents... I'm still working on the other yellow and it just might be that it is a weathered version of norbergite but tell me what you think of the glowing blue from the bottom on this sample. You can't tell from the picture but its a different blue then the Diopside and there are no visable signs of minerals. It just looks like the marble glowing and its not a reflection. Someone from the PA mineral club that was here and looked at it suggested Fluoborite. What do you think ?

15th Dec 2011 22:19 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Glenn, was that Johan who suggested Fluoborite? If so, a very educated suggestion. He really knows his stuff.

16th Dec 2011 16:53 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson

I have some of that as well. It was included in the boulder that Ron and I broke apart out back by the dump truck. It seems to have the same blue flourescence, but it's within the white marble. I have not tried to guess what it was, but the fluoborite could be a definite possibility. The hard part is that you can't see anything in daylight, and there appears to be no difference in the marble to the naked eye:-)

16th Dec 2011 18:43 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Glenn, the blue color may be a chemical variant in the marble or more likely the result of a mechanical change to the marble such as from a sledge hammer. Fluoborite is often a creamy off-white to light yellow color from the specimens I have. Some of the fibrous varieties of fluoborite will fluoresce more of a blue-white.

Hope this helps,


19th Dec 2011 20:02 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks everyone for all the info. Steve, I did notice some red fluorescent streaks on some of the marble boulders and at first I thought it was massive corundum but then realized it was from to the teeth of the excavator digging the rock out but it was red.

Greg, I took your advice and had some of the mass Spinel, mica and Serpintine cut. Its pretty cool stuff. Its amazing how fast he made these.

20th Dec 2011 21:52 UTCGlenn Rhein

NIce fingernail size book of fluorescent mica.

Happy Holidays everyone !

21st Dec 2011 20:46 UTCGreg Kokolus

Hi Glenn:

You and Karen can now add lapidary to the other mineral knowledge that you've acquired. You could probably find some used equipment for under $500.00.

Of course you'd probably have to get rid of the microbrew equipment to make room in the garage :)-D

Looking at the pictures of the cabs, I think that you could find even richer Serpentine back in a straight line from the Spinel pit.

The stuff I found was very bright yellow green and not unlike the material from Montville, NJ. I talked to David about this and he thought that geologically your property is in the same belt as Montville. I think that area really merits further exploration. I feel that the mineralization is different and I wouldn't be surprised if this where Molybendenite will turn up.

Merry Christmas,


22nd Dec 2011 00:17 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Whoa there Kimosabe... I said Glenn's serpentine is Lizardite, that's all. Montville is a completely different animal.:-D

23rd Dec 2011 17:30 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson

Oh, yeah. No comparison between Montville and Amity.

Happy Holidays to you all :-)

10th Jan 2012 01:19 UTCGlenn Rhein

Minerals that look like interesting objects like this heart shape fluorescent are really cool ! Hey that could be a new thread, minerals that resemble things.

10th Jan 2012 21:13 UTCRowan Lytle

Actually there was one....

very cool lookin' piece though!

24th Jan 2012 19:36 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson

The blue is really vivid in this specimen. Looks great!

11th Feb 2012 17:29 UTCGlenn Rhein

The Norbergite flower (as I call it) is one of my favorite fluorescent pieces so when I flipped over this small boulder and found its twin I was ecstatic.

So instead of just breaking up the marble randomly I started trying to split the marble on a fluorescent seam. A lump hammer and chisel worked ok for the smaller pieces but didn't get me anywhere with the larger ones so I tryed the wood maul and with a few well placed strikes I was splitting 24 inch pieces relatively easy. The results were great it gave me two large pieces with great fluorescent coverage.

12th Feb 2012 21:00 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson

Great way to do damage to a wood maul!!! I have an old one I'm going to try next trip. Great way to get clean spilts. The flower was so interseting to see. Definitely a unique specimen.

Glenn & Karen, The North Jersey Mineralogical Society gives you guys a great big THUMBS UP to your presentation at last thursday's meeting! Everyone had a blast! It was tough trying to end the meeting :-) Nobody wanted to leave your table! It was great and we're all looking forward to coming up this spring.

12th Feb 2012 21:10 UTCStephanie Martin

Awesome flowers! Nice pair/bouquet for Karen, just in time for Valentine's Day !!!


stephanie :-)

24th Feb 2012 19:10 UTCGlenn Rhein

Yeah Jeff the tools take a beating but its worth the results.

A nice Fluoro-edenite crystal with sharp edges and a blue-green fluorescence

6th Mar 2012 00:48 UTCGlenn Rhein

A new mineral to add to the list ? Zircon I think. After breaking up some massive scapolite we found these guys....up to 3/4 of an inch.

6th Mar 2012 01:21 UTCRowan Lytle

Whoa, those are so aesthetic! probably are zircon, they are the right shape.

6th Mar 2012 05:05 UTCHershel Friedman

Yes, almost definitely zircon. I found very similar crystals in a marble contact zone nearby.

6th Mar 2012 11:00 UTCJohan Maertens

Reference Glenn's posting on December 20, 2011 09:52PM

Phlogopite series in the mica group

6th Mar 2012 15:31 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Nice find Glenn, they are most certainly zircon. By the way have you checked fluorescence?? Some will respond with what I would call a yellow-orange color ( like some mustard ) usually of only moderate intensity. Perhaps looking at the matrix specimens with SWUV. Hope they glow!


6th Mar 2012 16:19 UTCEdwin Pink

I am a geology major at MTSU in TN. I would like to know if it is possible to obtain a specimen? Thanks! Edwin

7th Mar 2012 00:45 UTCByron Thomas

Edwin your best bet is to ask Glenn privately.

8th Mar 2012 02:05 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks guys for the help and Steve unfortunatly they don't fluoress. Here's another unidenified crystal. Its in with the Zircons and at first I thought they were Zircons but they are a different color (brown) and shape. These are the most gemmy crystals I have found so far. Glass 12mm

8th Mar 2012 02:53 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Glenn, those are pretty cool. That first picture reminds me of Rutile. But that couldn't be...right?

8th Mar 2012 03:30 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Glenn, they sort of resemble flattened rounded titanite crystals rock-locked in the scapolite.


8th Mar 2012 06:28 UTCHershel Friedman

Yes, has the look of a rutile v-twin, but why would it be rounded? Glenn, any chance of testing the hardness?

25th Mar 2012 22:48 UTCGlenn Rhein

Herschel, It didn't scratch with Calcite or Quartz.

This is the first green Spinel, I found this just down the road at a neighbors. It is about a 1/4 inch and with blue mica, chondrodite and a pinkish mineral.

Under the microscope its it very green and clear.

26th Mar 2012 04:46 UTCStephanie Martin

Glenn, those green spinels would be gahnite, and the pink mineral appears to be garnet, likely grossular.

Now look what you started, one hot spot and there goes the neighbourhood! ;-)

I'm still waiting for the blue spinels. LOL.



30th Mar 2012 23:03 UTCGlenn Rhein

Stephanie, If its Gahanite that would mean there is Zinc but I don't think there is any Zinc here. If its green does it have to be gahanite ?

Under the microscope I found small orange spinels mixed in with the pink ones at first I thought they were just dirty or stained but they are glassy and they don't fluoress at all. This is the first larger one I found yesterday it was side by side with the pink one. They are about 3/16 of an inch.

30th Mar 2012 23:46 UTCByron Thomas

I am totally amazed at what you continue to find there Glen. I wish i would stumble on something like that.

31st Mar 2012 05:06 UTCStephanie Martin

Glenn, I was thinking that if your formation is part of the Franklin Marble Belt then why not zinc? I can't make out the crystal habits on the the greenish-grey stuff, is it mica group or diopside or both? If you have high iron then the garnets are more likely to be almandine.

Pretty spinels!


stephanie :-)

31st Mar 2012 14:30 UTCWayne Corwin


You put the orange spinels thru some Super Iron Out ?

Any Iron won't allow them to fluoress.


Wayne Corwin

31st Mar 2012 16:56 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

Glenn Rhein Wrote:


> Thanks guys for the help and Steve unfortunatly

> they don't fluoress. Here's another unidenified

> crystal. Its in with the Zircons and at first I

> thought they were Zircons but they are a different

> color (brown) and shape. These are the most gemmy

> crystals I have found so far. Glass 12mm



To chime in on one of the previous photos the brown "twinned" crystal looks more like titanite to me. I've seen similar ones from ontario. They look like typical wedge shape to me in the photo.

3rd Apr 2012 01:29 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson


I found a boulder that had numerous crystals that look very similar to yours, at Sterling Hill about 3 years ago. The deep dark green crystals were on the same type matrix as yours is, without the chondrodite. One of the guys working at Sterling Hill that day identified it as Jeffersonite. He said the difference between Gahnite and Jeffersonite is that Gahnite has rounded edges similar to Franklinite. The Jeffersonite crystals come to sharp edges, similar to flourite. They are both deep dark translucent green. Hope that helps in your ID.

See you on May 5th!! The North Jersey Club Members are soooooo looking forward to this trip!!!


3rd Apr 2012 04:58 UTCJeremy A. Zolan

To form gahnite as a minor accessory, you do not need that much zinc! Take staurolite for example, which is known to contain zinc but often is found in rocks derived from pelitic sediments that do not have too much going on in the transition metal department other than sometimes high Fe and Mn. If a rock has only several ppm Zn, this element can be concentrated where it is compatible chemically and thermodynamically. Since in marble like this, spinel group minerals readily form, we can incorporate Zn into the spinel structure making gahnite. To answer your question about it's color, Gahnite is usually dark blue-green in my experience but I guess it could technically be any color. Neither Zn or Al are chromophores so it all depends on the impurities. Since Fe can substitute nicely into this structure, I would assume that this element colors gahnite but I could be mistaken.

Also, I agree that the flattened, brown mineral on the previous page is titanite. There are extremely similar looking titanites from Ontario (I believe Bear Lake).

4th Apr 2012 00:27 UTCGlenn Rhein

Byron, Amity is still full of stuff.

Wayne, I let the orange spinel sit it iron out over night and the color didn't change but now it does fluoress and its a darker red than the pink ones. Thanks for the Idea.

Thanks Jeremy, Jeff and Matt Titanite and Gahanite seem to fit well I should never doubt Stephanie !

Stephanie, I think that piece with the Gahanite has Clintonite mica and maybe Diopside as well.

How about these green radiating crystals laying on what I think is scapolite ?

and some spinels, chondrodite and maybe edenite on a couple of pieces I dipped in acid.

4th Apr 2012 01:29 UTCGary Moldovany

Glenn, your green radiating crystals are probably tremolite. Some of the tremolite in the Franklin Marble will fluoresce blue-white while other specimens do not fluoresce at all. Gary

4th Apr 2012 01:39 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Wouldn't tremolite only fluoresce if it were white? I suspect that greenish tremolite is usually coloured by iron, which would kill fluorescence?

4th Apr 2012 04:31 UTCHershel Friedman

Glenn, I have Tremolite/Actinolite that I found in Amity several years ago off Newport Bridge Rd that is very similar to that top picture. I had Mike Hawkins from the state Museum look at it and he agreed it is Tremolite/Actinolite. Its green and doesn't fluoresce though, which would give me the impression that its got iron and thus more likely actinolite over tremolite

23rd Apr 2012 20:10 UTCGlenn Rhein

Some super bright fluorescent pieces 7 by 8 inches and 6 by 8 inches. I'm lucky enough to have a few pieces on display at the Franklin show this weekend so come check them out.

25th Apr 2012 17:49 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson

Wow! Very nice, Glenn!!

I'll see you down at Franklin on Saturday.

1st May 2012 03:42 UTCHershel Friedman


I was at the Franklin show this past Sunday, and Glenn had a beautiful display setup in the fluorescent room. Here is the photo I took of it.

6th May 2012 15:26 UTCGary Moldovany

I would like to give a sincere THANK YOU! to Glenn Rhein and his family for hosting the NOJMS dig at his property yesterday. All of us had a great time and collected a lot of great mineral specimens. Your kindness and knowledge are greatly appreciated. Gary

8th May 2012 01:06 UTCGlenn Rhein

My neighbor down the road heard about my fluorescent rocks so he came by with his amazing willimite pottery.How I understood it is he grows willimite crystals in the glazing during the firing and adds something to make them fluoress.I'll know more after I visit his workshop on Wednesday.More crazy stuff from Amity !

8th May 2012 03:30 UTCJim Bean

That's wild!

8th May 2012 05:40 UTCByron Thomas

That is very cool and would make one awsome beer stine to drink from

8th May 2012 15:02 UTCEarl Verbeek Expert

Echoing Gary's post above, a sincere THANK YOU to Glenn Rhein for donating more than a dozen fine fluorescent specimens to the Sterling Hill Mining Museum. In conjunction with other specimens already in our collection, these will be used to create a new display on the "Fluorescent Minerals of the Franklin Marble" in the Thomas S. Warren Museum of Fluorescence (part of Sterling Hill). Those who enjoyed Glenn's fine display at the Franklin show a couple of weekends ago will soon be able to see some of those same specimens on permanent public display.

Thanks again, Glenn- Earl

12th May 2012 23:27 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson


On behalf of the North Jersey Mineralogical Society, we would like to give a great big THANK YOU to you and Karen for hosting a superb field trip to your property for our members. It was the talk of the day at last thursday's club meeting. Everyone had a great time and were thoroughly amazed at the minerals found. We had a big "show and tell" at our meeting thursday, and everyone loved seeing the specimens! We could not have asked for any better of a day.

We took a vote, and by a landslide, NoJMS has decided to issue both you and Karen honorary memberships in the club. You will be receiving a package soon :-)

Again, your graciousness and hospitality were awesome.:)-D

Jeff Wilson

The North Jersey Mineralogical Society

12th Jun 2012 19:29 UTCGlenn Rhein

Its been a few months but I finially got a chance to go out this morning and find some stuff. I peeled back the moss on this boulder sticking out of the ground and found a bunch of nicely formed Uvite crystals mixed in with Spinels and Serpentine. Looks like they are altering to Clinochlore. Slight yellow-green fluorescent SW.

And thanks to all...

19th Jun 2012 21:39 UTCRowan Lytle

Cool stuff! Nice form.

20th Jun 2012 19:27 UTCTim Jokela Jr

Truly the dream of every collector... having a productive mine in their backyard! Lucky devil.

26th Jun 2012 23:42 UTCGlenn Rhein

I'm not one hundred percent sure but I think these are Graphite Sphere's. They are about 3/16 of an inch. I found these and some great pargasite crystals today.

27th Jun 2012 11:55 UTCEarl Verbeek Expert

Yep, classic graphite spheres, and larger than those from most other localities. You have John Jaszczak's e-mail address, right? He'd love to know about these. The surface detail in your third photo is sure to capture his interest.

27th Jun 2012 15:38 UTCFred E. Davis

Definitely contact John - I heard him speak at the New England MicroMounter's symposium in June on the topic of graphite and it was absolutely fascinating.

27th Jun 2012 23:22 UTCGlenn Rhein

This is the spot ! You can see the line of contact between the weathered granite and calcite. The granite becomes black and white sand

and marble becomes calcite (I Think) Find the black and white sand and find the you will find black pargasite crystals and in this case some nice Graphite spheres. Do you think its worth fine screening the sand for these spheres ? Second picture looks like a fish.

Last picture has a 4mm sphere just above my wrist ?

29th Jun 2012 15:47 UTCGlenn Rhein

Anyone have an idea what this stuff is ? I found them with these nice Pargasite crystals.

10th Jul 2012 03:33 UTCGlenn Rhein

7mm graphite rosette / sphere

10th Jul 2012 14:19 UTCWayne Corwin


I'm amazed at how you keep topping yourself on new finds,, but you do it on a regular basis, by next year , , well, I can't wait to see ! !

Wayne Corwin

10th Jul 2012 17:49 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

Glenn Rhein Wrote:


> >


> Anyone have an idea what this stuff is ? I found

> them with these nice Pargasite crystals.


Could be just voids where something got dissolved out. can you get a closer shot of those 2 ?

21st Jul 2012 18:52 UTCGlenn Rhein

I'll get some better pictures for you Matt..

The largest Graphite sphere yet 8mm.

30th Jul 2012 01:16 UTCGlenn Rhein

I found one of these graphite (crystals ?) and thought it was just a freak but now I'm finding more and they are all the same.

It''s a hollow flat sphere open on one side, almost like a seed pod that popped open. It has a tail and a skirt with little bumps.

cool stuff. this one is 8mm with its tail

30th Jul 2012 05:41 UTCWayne Corwin


How long is your list of all these cool new finds?

It's got to fill a large file !

(tu) (tu) (tu) (tu) (tu) I give you 5 thumbs up Glenn !

Wayne Corwin

30th Jul 2012 06:07 UTCEvan Johnson

Mr. Rhein,

Let me add to the voices that thank you for your continued work documenting this exciting find, and the generosity with which you are treating the collecting community. It really sets the bar high and provides a nice counterpoint to the stories we hear about places being closed by property owners, finds hidden, etc.

All the best, and keep up the great finds- and documentation!-


30th Jul 2012 12:23 UTCEarl Verbeek Expert

Glenn- Harking back to your June 29 post, in which you ask "what this stuff is," it looks from the lower photo as if the material is fragmental. If so (hard to tell from just a photo) you may have a root cast that formed in the regolith or soil zone above the weathered bedrock. Basically, carbonate is being moved around all the time in the weathering zone above the Franklin Marble, dissolving in some areas and reprecipitating as calcite in others, plus iron-bearing minerals (amphiboles, pyroxenes) are breaking down, with the iron reprecipitating as limonite (notice the orange stains in your photo). In many places near you, the glacial sediments mantling the Franklin Marble are loose and uncemented, but just above the Franklin Marble they are commonly cemented into a conglomerate. Any plant sending roots down through the soil, glacial debris, or regolith to just above bedrock could easily have the sediment around the root progressively cemented into rock as the root keeps drawing water toward it.

28th Aug 2012 01:15 UTCGlenn Rhein

I found this giant 3-3/4 inch Spinel today, Its sitting next to a bigger one but its more crude. These giant spinels made Amity famous over one hundred and fifty years ago and are still here....its very hard to get a good picture of it.

28th Aug 2012 14:04 UTCWayne Corwin


I suspect that your giant spinels will make Amity famous once again !



29th Aug 2012 03:44 UTCStephanie Martin

Goodness! Those are whoppers! Great stuff Glenn, thanks for sharing! (tu)


stephanie :-)

29th Aug 2012 23:49 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks guys...

This is the results of a couple hours trimming and cleaning, the weathered serpentine has a very cool green color.

These Uvite crystals also came from the same spot


18th Oct 2012 14:44 UTCGlenn Rhein

Its been a while since we had a chance to get out there and dig, my daughter got married in the back yard last week and we all spent the summer working on cleaning up the yard and filling in holes. I went out to the marble pile and found this 17mm pink spinel ( biggest one yet)

Also came up with another giant spinel . 3 inches

19th Oct 2012 00:12 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

thats a rediculous big spinel! very nice

21st Oct 2012 00:02 UTCRowan Lytle

Man, those are awesome!

22nd Oct 2012 13:38 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks guys, I think these two new spinels are my favorite. The first is a floater that is 1-1/2 inches high and 2 inches at the widest point. Its really hard to get a good shot of the whole crystal with good prespective but here's a great shot of what I call the front. The second picture is one of the best group spinels specimens I have with crystals up to 3/4 of an inch and one a bit bigger on the back. The spinels are sharp in Franklin marble with Chondrodite and Norbergite. Five inches wide..

23rd Oct 2012 15:05 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hundreds of dark green well formed Spinels in Franklin marble up to 3/16 inches.The piece is six inches overall.

23rd Oct 2012 15:31 UTCStephanie Martin

ooooh Glenn, those are starting to look a lot like franklinite!

great finds, thanks for continuing to share!

PS - hope your daughter's wedding went well, and with all the rocks around, they had a solid foundation to start on!


stephanie :-)

23rd Oct 2012 17:28 UTCWayne Corwin


Thanks for posting new photo's, there really wonderful :-D

You sure are in the right place (tu) at the right time (tu) for some amazing new finds ;-)

Please KOR (Keep On Rockin') and posting your great finds :)-D


24th Oct 2012 02:46 UTCDoug Daniels

Just think if Glenn's property had been owned by someone totally disinterested in rocks & minerals....

24th Oct 2012 18:13 UTCRob Woodside Manager

Glen was that person until he started looking at his land!!!

25th Oct 2012 01:18 UTCGlenn Rhein

Wow, Rob ! You are 100 percent right. The only thing that saved me was I've always been a bit of a treasure hunter and I bought the right piece of property. A big thanks to MIndat for its invaluable information and for helping make my find a fun and exciting venture.

little but nice Fluorapatites

3rd Nov 2012 02:48 UTCRowan Lytle

To tell you the truth, unless you live in the Midwest, there is usually some type of mineralization of interest on your property. Glenn, you just have an particularly amazing amount of minerals in your property.

3rd Nov 2012 21:28 UTCGlenn Rhein

Rowan, I think Amity is full of minerals, not just here on my property. I just have the means to explore more than most. I can dig up and area, wait for rain to wash stuff off and then look for minerals. If I don't find anything I just level off and start over but I always do find something. I dug before the storm and was out yesterday and found some Spinels. They are small but deep red and the best luster of any yet.

I have found at least eight different spinel locations and the spinels in each spot are different. Why ?

5th Nov 2012 20:28 UTCRowan Lytle

differant parts of the marble would be mineralized atleast a little differently, causing color differences.

9th Nov 2012 21:53 UTCGlenn Rhein

Rowan In this last spot that I'm digging, in four foot of length and maybe 10 inches deep the Spinels change from deep red to black to this tiger eye looking color with a beveled edge that might not even be Spinel because the angle of the crystal seems sharper. So far in this spot the biggest spinel is about 12mm. There is some weird stuff in this hole. I'll post more tomorrow.

10th Nov 2012 23:51 UTCGlenn Rhein

At first glance I thought this was Graphite but it wasn't greasy so I gave it a second look. Its hard and doesn't flake, looks metalic but not magnetic which rules out Pyrrhotite or does it ? What else could it be ?

16th Nov 2012 20:31 UTCRowan Lytle

I have no Idea....:-S

16th Nov 2012 20:44 UTCKeith Wood


16th Nov 2012 23:08 UTCDermot Walsh

Hi Glenn..if i may..did your area..miss the storm Sandy..?..

best regards


18th Nov 2012 01:54 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hi Dermot, We were quite lucky compared to most areas east and south of us. The power was out for some people for over a week. Damage was from fallen trees but we had no issues with flooding like last years storm Irene in which we lost some local bridges and roadways.

Keith are there any simple tests to check for Ilmenite ? I know it was found here in Amity before...

Rowen here's more evidence of Amity being full of minerals.... My friend down the road came by to show me some Spinels he found on his property. The samples he showed me just didn't feel right, too heavy so I checked them with a magnet and they are most likely Magnetite.

We went over there digging and found both Spinels and Magnetite blueish in color. Here's a picture of a 20 inch magnet we dragged over the dirt and also some spinels.

18th Nov 2012 02:20 UTCKeith Wood


Man, you had to put me on the spot! I don't have much to offer besides the usual - hardness, streak, not magnetic. My experience has been that if it looks a lot like magnetite but isn't magnetic ilmenite is a good guess. It tends to have a platy or tabular form rather than the equidimensional form of magnetite. I've had some x-ray confirmed, and that was from a locality where I saw a lot of it, so I think I just have more of a feel for it after so many times finding it.

Can you identify any of the associated minerals that were directly with it in that piece? That can help in a general way.

18th Nov 2012 03:27 UTCStephanie Martin

Glenn, I knew you would find blue spinels sooner or later, so that's where they've been hiding! LOL.

I always get a kick out of this thread.


stephanie :))

18th Nov 2012 13:23 UTCDermot Walsh

Hi Glenn..hydro 1 out of eastern Ontario had sent a few crews for help with the power losses..and a relative in Pine Island was without power for over a week..but they did manage to obtain a generator..your find makes me wonder whats going on in that neck of the woods....now..i`m trying too wrangle an invite for the U.S. Thanksgiving..LOL...glad alls well...great finds..



18th Nov 2012 22:00 UTCGlenn Rhein

Dermot, Wrangle up that invitation and come on down. Weather looks good and we can do some digging.

I this new out crop of marble along with Norbergite and Fluoro-edenite is this Fluoro-tremolite I think Iv'e found some before but this is a new ID

Stephanie I really never thought I would find blue spinels, I don't know what colors are left to find. Maybe some striped ones

18th Nov 2012 23:38 UTCDermot Walsh

good too hear of the weather shift...you could use a break..too do some digging...Happy Thanks Giving


19th Nov 2012 00:15 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

Glenn try a NIB magnet they might be a little stronger and pick up weaker magnetism you could find them at hardware stores. they're generally in telescopic "pick-up tools" like the ones to reach parts that might have fallen while working on a car or something.

29th Nov 2012 23:51 UTCDermot Walsh

Hi Glenn..may i have use of the attached photo...

thanks in advance


1st Dec 2012 23:46 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hey Dermot, Sure you can use the photo. I do wonder why ?

Matt the stronger magnet does help, Thanks

13th Feb 2013 16:13 UTCHershel Friedman

I have just produced a new short film describing Glenn's amazing discovery which is outlined here in this discussion thread. This video is a must-see for all those who have been following this topic. Its available for online streaming - click the link below:

A New Mineral Discovery in Amity, NY, with Glenn Rhein

I want to publicly thank Glenn for his cooperation and coordination in getting this video out, and for bringing this deposit back on the map. We need more people like Glenn!

Any comments or suggestions will be appreciated. Perhaps if there is interest we will make this into a longer video with the extra footage, and if more amazing finds are discovered we'll produce a sequel.

- Hershel

13th Feb 2013 20:06 UTCTim Jokela Jr

Glenn, do you have a shortwave ultaviolet light handy? You might find some very, very interesting things with it.

If you find any spinels that fluoresce yellow under SWUV, they're zircon.

Keep up the good work.

13th Feb 2013 21:35 UTCDermot Walsh

Glenn...i missed your reply of Dec 01....for no reason..other than a reminder..of minerals that are still out..there..somewhere..waiting tobe..found..and of course what size pry bar i may need...if i ever visit Pine Island..thanks


13th Feb 2013 23:37 UTCAndy Givens

Stephanie I really never thought I would find blue spinels, I don't know what colors are left to find. Maybe some striped ones



13th Feb 2013 23:41 UTCAndy Givens

awesome video

14th Feb 2013 01:43 UTCGary Moldovany

Wow! Great job on the video, Herschel. I really enjoyed it. Glenn, you have a great on-camera presence as well. I'm looking forward to the privelege of collecting at your great site again. Thanks guys. Gary

17th Feb 2013 17:03 UTCGlenn Rhein

WOW, Hershel. The video is interesting and exciting, packed with information and so comfortable to view. We are very happy with it. Thanks so much for keeping the interest in the find alive. Hope your site and the video receive many viewings!! We look forward to finding more interesting minerals in the spring.

and PS Gary. . . I don't know about the camera presence, I was pretty nervous. . . Hershel was a pretty big help to calm the nerves.

Thanks again,

Glenn and Karen

26th Feb 2013 05:20 UTCHershel Friedman

Glenn, glad it came out the way it did! You were amazing on the film and acted totally natural and cool. I'll be looking forward to visiting again in the spring. A special shout out to Morty Gilden for the great filming job!

26th Feb 2013 13:54 UTCDave Crosby

Glen, Keep some for yourself, but be aware that some day your great grand children will throw them away.

1st Mar 2013 20:42 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson

I loved the video!!! Glenn and Herschel , you guys are awesome! Glenn, can't wait to get back up there in the spring! See you soon

15th Apr 2013 22:41 UTCJim Van Fleet

Hi Glenn;

Good seeing you at the Edison show, outstanding exhibit! I mentioned there is a casting company looking to put together a show on "rock hounds." Here is their Facebook site, scroll down a bit to see the Rock Hounds flyer:


You're a very likely candidate! Good luck, let me know what happens.


16th Apr 2013 01:35 UTCGary Moldovany

Glenn, great display at the show. We really enjoyed it. Sorry we didn't get to see you there. Hope to get up to NY in May with the NOJMS. Gary

17th Apr 2013 18:54 UTCGlenn Rhein

Sorry I missed you at the show Gary... Great display of NY NJ minerals as well as the amazing specimens from around the world. I don't know how all those minerals survive the move, some seem so fragile. Also nice to meet Jolyon and his wife, Great people !

I was out last night looking for those deep red spinels and came up with these guys. I think they might be Serpentine crystals. They feel a bit greasy and the matrix is Spinel,Serpentine and marble.


17th Apr 2013 19:07 UTCPhil M. Belley Expert

Hi Glenn,

The crystals, especially in the bottom photo, look like forsterite (Mg olivine end member) crystals. If they have a greasy feel then they are altered, perhaps partially (i.e. core could be olivine) to serpentine and perhaps talc: Serpentine pseudomorph after forsterite.

Serpentine does not occur as euhedral crystals (though not sure if euhedral crystals can be seen with electron microscopes?).

Nice minerals, the red spinels are especially neat!


17th Apr 2013 23:00 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks Phil, I know Forsterite was found here in Amity before but Its a first for me.

There seems to be a lot of them and some really nice formed ones, just need to clean them up and trim them down.

Here's a 1/4 inch spinel with great luster, a lot of these also and a picture of matrix they are in.

20th Apr 2013 01:28 UTCGlenn Rhein

These better pictures might help.

20th Apr 2013 04:21 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

Glenn, they kinda remind me of diopside or augite some kind of pyroxene group mineral.

30th Apr 2013 01:34 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson


Great seeing you at Edison. Your display was SUPERB!!! It is so gratifying to see your minerals on display with some of the best in the world. The fluorescent display was VERY cool, especially the spinning specimen!! Kudos!!! I am always in awe seeing your finds. Keep it up!! :)-D


30th Apr 2013 03:50 UTCWayne Corwin

Please Glenn,,, Oh' Great G L E N N, , , Say you took pics of the display :)-D

Wynr Corwin

1st May 2013 00:15 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hershel took some great pictures of the show and posted them on his website but here's one of my best Meionites. Crystal alone is over three inches

When you going to get down this way again Wayne ?

Matt, you are not alone suggesting a pyroxene but I'm thinking Uvite or maybe even Vesuvianite. I'm going to get it tested

1st May 2013 00:26 UTCPhil M. Belley Expert

Photo 6415 really looks like clinopyroxene (monoclinic). Uvite is trigonal and vesuvianite tetragonal. There are some good 3D java crystal drawings which may help (mindat, webmineral).

1st May 2013 01:57 UTCGary Moldovany

Wayne, I just posted a photo I took of Glenn's case at the show. It's not the greatest but you can see everything.

1st May 2013 02:26 UTCD Mike Reinke

Pretty incredible, Glenn'

Who else has 34 pages on mindat devoted to their backyard?!

34 more would be just fine.

Who needs grass, anyway?

1st May 2013 05:02 UTCHershel Friedman

Glenn, that meionite is amazing! I know I saw it at the show and took a picture of it, but its still nice to see your picture. The size, well-formed shape, and positioning on the matrix is outstanding. Is this piece from a recent dig, or from the trimming of some of the larger pieces?

The photo of Glenn's display case at the NY-NJ show that he is referring to can be seen in the link below:
Glenn's Exhibit at the NY-NJ Show

Scroll down to the middle of the page. There is also one of the large scapolite/diopside crystals that Glenn placed there for people to be able to touch. I am not so happy with the image quality - lighting and transparent background made photography challenging.

Also, here is a photo of myself and Glenn posing in front of my booth at the NY-NJ show with the video we produced playing right beneath us. (Though we are standing on opposite sides of the video!)

3rd May 2013 23:34 UTCGlenn Rhein

Phil M. Belley Wrote:


> Photo 6415 really looks like clinopyroxene

> (monoclinic). Uvite is trigonal and vesuvianite

> tetragonal. There are some good 3D java crystal

> drawings which may help (mindat, webmineral).

Hi Phil, Iv'e been doing a little reading up on Pyroxenes and Amphiboles. Pyroxenes are square at a cross section, 87 and 93 degrees with shinny cleavage and Amphiboles have diamond shape cross sections and corner angles at 124 and 56 degrees. These crystals some of them are shinny inside and others are not and I can't find any cleavage angle. Then you have one altering to the other so its really hard figuring out whats what but from everything I've found so far the Pyroxenes are all ways between the Gneiss and the marble and the association of minerals are the same. Diopside, Scapolite Titanite, Pargasite and augite. The other group is Spinel, Serpintine, Uvite, and Chondrodite, these crystals I'm finding are in the latter group and directly in the marble. Now the Amphiboles I'll find in the marble (Tremolite,Edenite) with no contact of country rock but never with Spinel or Chondrodite . Of coarse this is just my findings here but there are a good twenty different locations and every fifty feet or so things change. The fluorescent minerals are a whole different animal. I'll send some off to get tested. Thanks for your imput and I'll work on my crystal structures for better future ID's

4th May 2013 00:25 UTCPhil M. Belley Expert

Hi Glenn,

I found the crystal similar to this habit: http://www.mindat.org/photo-1198.html

Do you have any broken crystals where you can see cleavage and cleavage angle?


7th May 2013 01:57 UTCJeffrey D. Wilson

I visited Glenn's home on Saturday and was able to do a hands-on of those crystals in question. As soon as they were placed in my hand, I said to Glenn, "SOAPSTONE!" If any of you guys have ever held and touched soapstone, it has an unmistakable feel, unlike anything else in minerology. I further examined other specimens of these type crystals, and they all had the same "feel".

The coloration of the crystals is a blue-gray, similar to shale. They have a sharp edge angle and pattern similar to titanite.

I hope this helps in identifying these very interesting crystals!

THANKS Glenn for an amazing afternoon, and some great finds!

Photos coming soon!

7th May 2013 02:09 UTCJohan Maertens

Glenn, thank you for hosting us

You never stop amazing us at your friendliness, being a moviestar and full of energy like a dog, running around all your digs.

We explored more of the vein with the gray crystals in situ.

The richer mineralized vein is rather thin (about 8 inches) in marble. The vein zones with gray crystals has phlogpite, pink spinels and rarely a chondrodite crystal. I observed what might be serpentine and possibly also anhedral blue green diopside.

I consider the gray crsytals to be yet another form of diopside. Goldschmidts' atlas of crystal shapes shows monocline pyroxenes crystal shapes like the ones found on the outcrops. I will post pictures.

The acidic effect of decomposing forest debris leaches and etches the marble exposing the embedded crystals. None of the free standing subhedral crystals can be found one foot and more below the surface.

The greasy feeling on the diopside is possibly a talc weathering. The talc will easily be washed away with cleaning.

Documents of the Assembly of the State of New York, Volume 23 By New York (State). Legislature. Assembly, page 315 lists an alteration series of diopside over optional talc to serpentine.

Some crystals are a bit translucent.

The fresh cleavage faces are at times brown, glossy stepped, others have some green tint.

I will be back with more


24th May 2013 20:36 UTCGlenn Rhein

unknown blue mineral

Hershel, everything is new but the large Meionite that I found when I trimmed a large boulder

25th May 2013 16:05 UTCWayne Corwin

Birdite ?? :-S

Not a stain?

Got any more clues? Flouresces? Hardness?


25th May 2013 21:42 UTCGlenn Rhein

No Wayne, not a stain and I do have some purple birdite. I have several pieces and the other half of this and they appeared as I was breaking up the marble. They are not fluorescent and there was no reaction to muriatic acid.

Also found what I first thought to be Graphite but tested to be a fairly uncommon mineral called Geikielite .Magnesium Titanium Oxide

Has the luster of graphite but much harder-and the smaller ones look

like faceted spheres. The biggest piece so far is about 5/8 of an inch. Very cool stuff and new to New York and maybe the Franklin Marbled

Sorry for the bad pictures my camera is shot

24th Jun 2013 00:05 UTCGlenn Rhein

Some more Geikielite 10 to 12 mm.

24th Jun 2013 00:18 UTCPhil M. Belley Expert

Very nice, Glenn! What method of analysis was used on the Geikielite?

24th Jun 2013 00:31 UTCStephanie Martin

Kudos on the geikielite Glenn! Another pleasant surprise! What a cool find and good size crystals!



26th Jun 2013 00:55 UTCGlenn Rhein

Phil M. Belley Wrote:


> Very nice, Glenn! What method of analysis was used

> on the Geikielite?

Hi Phil, I found this new stuff and I knew it was different than anything else Iv'e found so I sent off samples to the NYSE museum for analysis. They agreed it was worth a look and tested it .

I believe they use SEM -EDX.

Thanks Stephanie......

Wayne , after breaking up more marble in the spot with the purple birdiite I came up with this 3/8 fluorite crystal more.

26th Jun 2013 02:06 UTCPhil M. Belley Expert

Hi Glenn, thanks! Very impressive specimens.

26th Jun 2013 02:55 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

What is birdiite?

26th Jun 2013 03:25 UTCTim Jokela Jr

It's produced by birds.

Best ID'd in the field by licking.

26th Jun 2013 03:27 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

lol i was going to say i never heard of it before

3rd Jul 2013 00:32 UTCGlenn Rhein

Here's a unusual shaped spinel 10mm on the left and some geikielite 4mm on the right.

13mm Circular shape ? On scapolite and feldspar

3rd Jul 2013 01:49 UTCWayne Corwin

Ahhhhhh Glenn, Great new finds too !

Great job !


12th Jul 2013 14:40 UTCJohn A. Jaszczak Expert

Phil asked a while ago about how the Geikielite was identified. I'm not sure about the initial ID, but Glenn sent me a specimen

with some microcrystals that I just finished analyzing. Raman spectroscopy gave a spectrum that was consistent with Geikielite, but more

similar to Pyrophanite or Ilmenite. This may be a reflection of the spectra in the rruff.info library that is loaded with the crystalsleuth program,

however. SEM/EDS gave elements Mg, Ti, O and some Fe and minor Mn, so they crystals are almost certainly Geikielite with a fair

amount of iron (along the geikielite-ilmenite series).

15th Sep 2013 00:10 UTCGlenn Rhein

Best collecting day ever ......today

17th Sep 2013 02:12 UTCGlenn Rhein

After a rinse off with the hose and a little scrubbing .

These crystals came from the Geikielite spot., we started finding them just six inches down. We are down 18 inches and still finding them.

They are with Spinel, Phlogopite, Pyrite, Graphite, Geikielite, Serpentine and another unknown mineral.

they were tested when we found small ones a couple of months ago and it looks like they are Fluoro-Pargasite with some type of mineral coating them or the surface altering.

Nice sharp crystals but hard to photograph.

Matt you called it right.....

17th Sep 2013 12:52 UTCVan King Manager

Great finds as usual, Glenn! The ring is possibly a three-dimensional spherical diffusion feature seen in cross-section, where a chemical reaction occurred around some mineral that was in the center. Have you seen more of these?

17th Sep 2013 14:19 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

WOW !!! :-) you've outdone yourself again! Crazy!!!

17th Sep 2013 16:23 UTCSpencer Ivan Mather

If I were you I would donate that specimen to the nearest museum, that is if you don't want to keep it..


19th Sep 2013 01:50 UTCGlenn Rhein

Van, I've only found three of those rings and they were all in Diopside, Edenite mix.

I will donate any piece to a museum but most have such great stuff mine will never see the display case and it seems a shame to let it sit in some back room.

Any suggestions ?

These three are very cool ......

19th Sep 2013 13:41 UTCPhil M. Belley Expert

Hi Glenn,

many museums would be happy to have some samples like this. Museums in other regions sometimes have a surprising lack of common skarn minerals, which are so common in the Grenville but not elsewhere. Even local museums may not have many good samples, and certainly they would like to have material representative of your locality. Any museum would be more than happy to add one of your amazing pink spinels or awesome geikielite crystals to their collection, as would I! I would also advise to provide any museum with a broken crystal fragment of spinel or geikielite (if the main sample is undamaged) in case they need some for research.


21st Sep 2013 01:50 UTCGlenn Rhein

Ok Phil , I will donate one of my top five Geikielite pieces to the museum of your choice if you do the leg work. All I need is a letter of donation from the museum and I wlll send you and your favorite museum each a piece of Geikielite . Can you make that happen ? Sorry I don't have enough good pink spinels to offer.....


21st Sep 2013 07:08 UTCDoug Daniels

I'm getting tired of this..... I go out in my back yard, look at my garden, and nothing grows worth a hoot,and nothing in the dirt anyway. Glenn goes into his back yard and comes up with all these interesting specimens... Just joshin' ya... When are you gonna write a book on the site?

21st Sep 2013 15:13 UTCKeith Wood

Pyrrhotite, possibly. See if it is magnetic.

21st Sep 2013 17:42 UTCJim Chenard


I just acquired two vesuvianites from up your way. Neat pieces. At some point in Mid October, do you mind if I come up and

collect with you on a Saturday?

Also, think of lance kearns for one of those new finds. He would appreciate it. You keep outdoing yourself up there

Jim chenard

21st Sep 2013 22:27 UTCPhil M. Belley Expert

Hi Glenn,

Sounds good! I will send you a PM.


PS: I agree with Keith's assessment on the sulphide.

21st Sep 2013 23:57 UTCGlenn Rhein

Ken and I digging out the big ones, very easy digging in loose dirt.

26th Sep 2013 15:52 UTCJames Van Fleet

Glenn gave me a very good clean crystal sample, and I ran an XRD scan. Good result, matches 12 of the expected peaks with a max peak over 3,000, and the best suggested mineral ID is geikielite with a score of 59.


8th Oct 2013 20:05 UTCBlain Bard

hi glenn i just read this entire thread and im absolutely amazed by the quality of the minerals you are finding keep up the good work. its nice to see that important mineralogical sites can still be found:)

13th Oct 2013 22:44 UTCGlenn Rhein

Jim call me soon about coming over,hunting season is coming up in Nov.

Thanks Blain its been fun and we have met a great bunch of rockhounds.

A new pocket of Meionite with Diopside. some are real nice, some have a really heavy Dendrite coating and these have what I think are Graphite spots but they have some kind of clear bubbly coating that covers the Graphite as well as the Meionite so I can't get a streak.

1st Nov 2013 22:44 UTCWayne Corwin

Wonderfull Glenn,,, simply WONDERFULLLLL !!!!!

2nd Nov 2013 03:10 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Hi Glenn,

Just thinking of the "clear bubbly coating", it may be common opal which has occurred in other Franklin Marble sites.


2nd Nov 2013 22:34 UTCGlenn Rhein

Doug, I think many people here in Amity have stuff in their back yard. I don't think they know what to look for or care to look.

Steve, could the coating be Quartz ? Most of the stuff I'm finding has quartz in the matrix. Check out the first picture. Hard to tell from the picture but all the white is quartz.

It's milky clear.

There's a lot of these little purple and red spinels and you can find nice examples like these fairly easy. 30 mm

2nd Nov 2013 23:35 UTCKeith Wood

That spinel rock looks like cookie dough!

(Edit: My food-crazy son wanted me to write that!)

3rd Nov 2013 02:06 UTCHershel Friedman

The reflective properties look more like quartz then the typical calcite/marble of the area. Quartz is not common in the Franklin marble but does exist. I'll take a better look at it when we meet up.

3rd Nov 2013 02:51 UTCJim Bean

Keith, your son couldn't have described it better!

7th Nov 2013 23:10 UTCGlenn Rhein

Keith, it looks good but your son wouldn't like the taste.for sure......

A few pieces all cleaned up, some of my favorites. Pictures one and two have Graphite imbedded on the surface. First is 8 x 6 cm second is 9.4 x8.1 cm and last is 7.1 x 5.5 cm

8th Nov 2013 01:30 UTCHershel Friedman

I have those pictured too from our photo shoot. I'll post some of them here as well once I finish cropping them.

8th Nov 2013 01:43 UTCKeith Wood

Are those the new giekelites? If so they are fantastic!

24th Nov 2013 03:00 UTCGlenn Rhein

Keith , after further testing the final result are in and Magnesio- hastingsite is a better match than Pargasite . So they'll go down in the books as Magnesio-Hastingsite.

A new mineral for me.

here are a couple more....and a cool picture of Fluorite on Phlogopite . Thanks to Hershel and his daughter for taking the nice photos first piece is 5.1 cm tall second is 6.8 x 3.2 cm and last is 3.3 x 2 cm

27th Nov 2013 05:03 UTCHershel Friedman

Yes, had a great time taking those photos and then going out in the back earlier this month. Here are some good photo samples:

1) GIANT scapolite (meionite) with diopside. This is a textbook-perfect crystal with a dendritic coating. In my opinion this is perhaps the best scapolite of this find.

2) Beautiful scapolite (meionite) crystal cluster

3) Sharp diopside crystal embedded in a scapolite crystal

27th Nov 2013 05:08 UTCHershel Friedman

And here are some more:

1) Large single Apatite crystal

2) Apatite with Diopsite and Scapolite with Marble

3) Azurite on marble

27th Nov 2013 05:12 UTCHershel Friedman

Here are some of the very rare Geikielites - the only confirmed examples of this mineral in New York State.

Most of them are associated with small, dark red spinel crystals.

These are very hard to photograph, and they are small.

5th Dec 2013 05:26 UTCHershel Friedman

Spinel. The first picture is an outstanding pink spinel octahedron in marble.

Second one is large spinel crystals with chondrodite.

Third one is a very large but ugly single crystal.

5th Dec 2013 08:51 UTCJohn Montgomery Expert

Nice Hershel...is it possible to enter the size?



5th Dec 2013 15:33 UTCWayne Corwin

There all nice Hershel !

I don't see any ugly ones !


8th Dec 2013 05:49 UTCHershel Friedman

Here are some graphites. The second one is rounded, ball-like graphite. Never seen this from any other locality.

John - Glenn is going to measure the size of each one and then we can post. Next photo shoot we'll have to get the dimensions as we shoot!

8th Dec 2013 13:34 UTCPhil M. Belley Expert

Graphite balls are not very common, but a locality in Gooderham, Ontario is well known for them. Some were also found by Donald Doell in the Mont Tremblant area (photos on mindat for both localities).

8th Dec 2013 13:56 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

I love graphite balls! Nice itching job to expose it from the calcite!

8th Dec 2013 20:59 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

Graphite balls also at the Kipiwa complex in Quebec and I imagine John Jaszczak the graphite expert http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~jaszczak/graphite.html can tell you of a few more localities with graphite balls. There is also this graphite ball: http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~jaszczak/graphiteball.html

9th Dec 2013 03:17 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert


Some rather large graphite spheres have been found to the south still within the Franklin Marble band at the Sterling Mine in Ogdensburg and I found one in Franklin, NJ at the Franklin Quarry on Cork Hill Road, also some very small spheres at the Limecrest Quarry, Sparta, NJ...have also seen them from old northern NYState locations.


9th Dec 2013 04:46 UTCHershel Friedman

It makes sense that there should be other graphite balls, especially at the Franklin marble, since the same paragenesis that formed them in Glenn's deposit would likely be in other localities. These are the first I have ever seen though, so was surprised to see them when they first came out. Thanks to the others for pointing them out at other localities as well. Matt, you correctly pointed out their etching, which was done by melting the marble with acid to expose the embedded graphite balls.

15th Dec 2013 05:00 UTCHershel Friedman

A nice Chondrodite from Amity, found by Glenn in 2011.

This one is in my own collection.


17th Dec 2013 12:18 UTCPhilip Perkins

WOW Glenn your finding some fantastic stuff, the Spinels are incredable, thanks for sharing your finds,

What a tread, 37 pages & still counting.

25th Dec 2013 04:32 UTCHershel Friedman

Several large spinel octahedrons in a matrix of massive and crudely crystallized chondrodite. Largest spinel crystal is 3 cm. This one is in my personal collection.

Dimensions: 10.5 cm x 8.5 cm x 6 cm.

26th Dec 2013 02:41 UTCHershel Friedman

Diopside altering to microcline. 12 x 12 cm. Found with Glenn in 2013

27th Dec 2013 05:50 UTCHershel Friedman

Phlogopite mica with an excellent red color - I love the color of this piece. Found this past summer (2013). There are some fairly large books of phlogopite that have come from Amity. 11 x 10.5 x 4 cm.

13th Jan 2014 03:36 UTCGlenn Rhein

nice sharp blueish Spinels in Clino-Humite from up the hill towards the old Henry Rudy farm. 11 cm and 8 cm

13th Jan 2014 12:30 UTCMaggie Wilson Expert


Just... wow.





14th Jan 2014 02:24 UTCWayne Corwin


I agree with Maggie ! ! ! (tu)

14th Jan 2014 03:08 UTCDoug Daniels

This should have been the show on the Weather Channel about collecting....but, no $10,000 aquas or topazes. Oh well...

14th Jan 2014 04:16 UTCWayne Corwin

But Doug,,,, then it would be interupted by stupid weather all the time. :-(

21st Jan 2014 02:13 UTCGlenn Rhein

Thanks guys.....it's been a few years now and many stories like me walking an 80 year old women through the woods so she could see a collecting site or the group of guys from PA who dug in the dark with lights in 25 degree weather. There is a lot of cool stuff up in the back on that hill. 18 cm with many cool spinels

21st Jan 2014 05:45 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

crazy Glenn those are great

22nd Jan 2014 01:06 UTCWayne Corwin

Thank You Glenn for always sharing all your great finds with us ! :-D

28th Jan 2014 05:05 UTCjosh garrity

I have been reading this thread with slack jawed amazement for days now.just fantastic.i cant believe this is so close to me(im in stroudsburg pa).I wish I could collect in a wonderful place like that, and would relish collecting with someone like you guys.ive never collected with anyone else before, noone I know is interesred.they just want to party and have no interest in the simpler things.maybe some day.until then, keep the finds coming!im honored just to see the pics haha.how big of an area is this spread over?are the minerals in areas individually or is it just a mixed bag of deposits with assorted things together?

31st Jan 2014 01:47 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hey Josh give me a call in a couple of months when it's a little warmer. I'm all ways looking for someone to dig with....

We are lucky enough to get a few pieces on display at the New York State Museum in Albany, It just a cell phone picture through the glass but very cool.

31st Jan 2014 02:18 UTCWayne Corwin


Nice to see them there, where so many people can injoy some of your amazing finds !

You can ask the museum to send you some quality photo's. then you can post better ones here ;-)



31st Jan 2014 03:36 UTCJim Chenard

Well, you know I will be up......

31st Jan 2014 04:00 UTCKeith Wood

What a great find you have there. I've commented previously, but it is hard not to reiterate what a wonderful discovery this is.

14th Feb 2014 21:08 UTCAndy Givens

as always .... amazing glenn!!!!!!!!!

13th Mar 2014 21:32 UTCGlenn Rhein

Traded a local collector who found this ilmenite crystal right here in Amity years ago and then found many of my own Spinel samples also had illmenite on them. A new mineral to add to the list .

My trade and picture number two is ilmenite and a nice 5/8 inch Spinel from my find

14th Mar 2014 00:45 UTCHershel Friedman

Hey Glenn, good to see you back. Its been a long and snow-covered winter! Looks like the snow is finally clearing, and some new collecting opportunities hopefully!

23rd Mar 2014 18:23 UTCGlenn Rhein

First dig of the year we found these really cool Phlogopite triangles , this spot had some huge mica but these guys are thumbnail size

23rd Mar 2014 19:15 UTCMaggie Wilson Expert

Those are awesome! Oooh, so lucky. you are so very, VERY lucky to not only have a bonanza such as this in your backyard, but the hits just keep coming AND you get to collect today, while we are still up to our eyeballs in cold and snow!

25th Mar 2014 01:20 UTCKeith Wood

Looks like all the same crystal. Cool though.

25th Mar 2014 12:07 UTCWayne Corwin

Hey Glenn

How big is the "huge mica" ?

And the triangle is deffenitly C:-D:-DL !



25th Mar 2014 21:01 UTCGlenn Rhein

Keith, two are definitely the same , when I cleaned it up the book came apart in eight pieces. If you lay them same side up some are almost identical.

Wayne, here's a piece that broke off a huge chunk still in the ground. I have to widen the hole to get bigger pieces out. I think there going to be a foot or more wide

26th Mar 2014 00:49 UTCKeith Wood

Thanks Glenn. That helps. So it looks like they are fragments of crystals. Micas are known to break preferentially along crystallographic axes. Older mineralogy texts will describe something called a percussion star, observed when a pointed chisel is struck with a hammer on a large book of mica. I'm not sure if it qualifies as cleavage, precisely - certain vague remembrances of crystallography make me hesitate on that one.

Interesting find. Another for the chronicles.

26th Mar 2014 05:29 UTCFred A. Schuster


I have been going through all my old photos and reminiscing. I remember the day I drove up to your house in 2008, was it? Anyways I am from Passaic NJ now living in Quebec and I miss the old state and the environs. I would love to get down there and look at what has been going on since I passed through. I also have some black crystals that came out to the outcrop (in your driveway?) remember the black stuff? I was getting some nicecrystals. I am not sure if you or some one can definitively id them from the photos, but before I add to your data base, I figured they should be named correctly. I was going to put them in the id section, but I figured this is the place where all the interested parties are looking. So here goes I am going to attached about 7 photos of the specimens I dug up on that first day.

Photo #1 Augite? or another pyroxene?
Photo #2 This second specimen looks a little different in color and crystal form
Photo # 3This looks like photo #1

26th Mar 2014 05:36 UTCFred A. Schuster

Photo #4 is probably the same mineral as photos #1 and #3. But the Photo #5 has a greenish tan mineral with a different luster and 2 developed cleavage planes. Photo #6 is a close up of it. Any ideas?

Fred S

Photo # 4

Photo #5

Photo #6

26th Mar 2014 15:57 UTCHershel Friedman


The triangular mica habit is well-known in the area - mostly for biotite though.

Take a look at this picture:


(Rob got the locality wrong though - it's Beechy Bottom, not Beechs Bottom)

I have observed biotites with this same triangular habit in the old iron mines in the Ramapo Mountains and Highlands region.

Fred - those amphiboles are most likely magnesio-hastingsite. Glenn had similar material from a nearby pit analyzed and magnesio-hastingsite was the closest candidate (they were previously thought to be fluoro-pargasite). Though it is possible that a different pit or outcrop has a slight formula variation that could change the amphibole classification. Very large and well-formed crystals of this amphibole were found in the summer/fall of 2013 and these are perhaps (in my opionion) the best ever seen in magnesio-hastingsite.

28th Mar 2014 01:28 UTCGlenn Rhein

Fred, pictures one, three and four are Pargasite. It was tested twice first time FluoroPargasite but after more detailed testing there was just not quite enough fluorine so they are Pargasite. Hershel is right about the Magnesiohastingsite and that out crop is just over the hill from were you found those in the driveway. The amphiboles are very close.

Picture 2 is most likely Edenite and five looks like some of those deformed fluorappitites I found in that spot but it's hard to tell from the picture.

I was sitting on my front porch and heard this unusual sound coming from the woods, I went back there to find you banging away on some rock. I went home and told my wife some crazy guy is digging in the woods. It was the start of it all !!! That was quite a few years ago and now I'm the crazy guy digging.

New spot has a good feel, I hope they get bigger and still stay gemmy

28th Mar 2014 03:02 UTCDoug Daniels

For the love of God - will this site ever cease to produce something??? Let's hope not - too darned interesting in this day of nifty sites being closed up and good stuff lost to us!

30th Mar 2014 04:11 UTCFred A. Schuster


Thanks I will post the photos under pargasite to added to the record. I think it was 2008, correct me if I am wrong. Anyways I have to get down there and collect with you if you would let me dig up yard again.


4th May 2014 23:34 UTCGlenn Rhein

Anytime you want Fred.

Me, Hershel, Dave and Brad with the find of the day.....

5th May 2014 00:56 UTCWayne Corwin


5th May 2014 06:17 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

Cant wait to see that one cleaned up!

5th May 2014 11:52 UTCChris Rayburn

Nice Glenn! You're back on the big crystals!

5th May 2014 23:17 UTCGlenn Rhein

Yeah Chris we are back into the big ones, mostly all scapolite covered with little green diopsides.

6th May 2014 12:27 UTCChris Rayburn

Now those are selfies that any rockhound can appreciate! I hope to get back there and dig with you again in June. I'll give you a call if plans firm up.

2nd Jun 2014 02:15 UTCGlenn Rhein

More cool shapes and a lot of purple fluorite on the surface of some

2nd Jun 2014 05:37 UTCWayne Corwin

Wow Glenn, verry nice!



2nd Jun 2014 23:07 UTCGlenn Rhein

Holy mica ,this ones smiling at me

3rd Jun 2014 05:43 UTCHershel Friedman

Here is a sample of some photographs that I took of some of Glenn's 2013 finds after this year's NY/NJ show:

Spinel and Clinohumite:

5.5 x 4 x 4 cm.

11 x 9 x 9 cm.

7 x 6 x 5 cm.

3rd Jun 2014 05:45 UTCHershel Friedman


4 x 4 x 2.5 cm.

8 x 6 x 3 cm.

With Graphite

3rd Jun 2014 05:47 UTCHershel Friedman

Geikielite (top right) with Spinel, Magnesio-hastingsite, and Serpentine.

15th Jun 2014 16:51 UTCGlenn Rhein

. A visit from Keene state college started out with pouring rain but shortly turned into a beautiful day. It was great to see such an enthusiastic bunch.
. Yesterday's visit , Gary from NJ and Chris from Colorado produced some nice spinels

15th Jun 2014 20:52 UTCVitaliy

Hi Glenn,

I would love to visit one day to collect on the property. How do we go about obtaining permission and what is the best time to go collecting there.

17th Jun 2014 23:33 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hi Vitya, just send me a PM and we can set something up.

Well formed Clino-Humites , some with Spinels embedded in them.

18th Jun 2014 00:32 UTCKeith Wood

Those are possibly some of the best specimens you've found. Very nice. I hope there are a lot where they came from.

At the rate you are going you're going to have to write a book called "Mineral Collecting Sites at Glenn's Place" with maps and mineral lists for each locality!

18th Jun 2014 03:01 UTCRowan Lytle

Boy, I'm away from mindat for a little a while and come back to this! Looks like things are just getting better and better.

18th Jun 2014 06:31 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

glenn those are great! I can't believe it. You can always see pictures of old tilly foster specimens in someones collection but between your place and a find by Michael Bainbridge I've seen the best north american specimens of these species coming out fresh

18th Jun 2014 08:26 UTCBecky Coulson Expert

Glenn, those are spectacular - please keep posting! (As I told you...in my next life, I'm going to live next door to Glenn!) Becky

18th Jun 2014 16:28 UTCChris Rayburn

Hi Glenn--those clino-humites are beauties! I'm still cleaning/etching my finds from last week. I'll post a few pictures when they're done. My haul ended up weighing 45 lbs--I had room for that five pound spinel I left behind after all!

25th Jun 2014 02:05 UTCGlenn Rhein

Well Becky if you lived next door you would have these in your back yard . Found these in the neighbors back yard. They think we are crazy for digging in the woods for them.

25th Jun 2014 10:42 UTCOlav Revheim Manager


Can you upload some of these photos so that I can use them in the best minerals article on clinohumite? I'd also appreciate if you could provide a ferw words on the find of these super specimens.



29th Jul 2014 01:33 UTCGlenn Rhein

It takes a lot of time and not to many clean up as nice. Pictures are with my iPhone . one on a piece of glass over grass. Large Clinohumite has a band of Spinel and Serpintine running through it . It gives it a interesting look.

29th Jul 2014 18:30 UTCBecky Coulson Expert

Glenn, those are beautiful - again!

29th Jul 2014 18:40 UTCPhil M. Belley Expert

Great finds! I am especially impressed with the quality of the clinohumite in the last two photos.

30th Jul 2014 01:35 UTCGary Moldovany

Thanks for putting up the latest photos, Glenn. They are amazing! We had a great time at your place and I'm looking forward to out next visit. Gary

30th Jul 2014 05:54 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

i'll pick my jaw up off the round in the morning..... gotta sleep now :)-D

30th Jul 2014 15:45 UTCEd Clopton Expert

I have watched this thread off and on with interest (and envy!) since it originated, and I'm always curious to see what shows up next. If I had followed every post I may know the answer to this question, but I haven't, so I don't: Is there a Mindat locality page for this occurrence? Looking through every locality returned by a search for "Warwick, New York" doesn't turn up anything that appears to cover it.

30th Jul 2014 17:19 UTCGerhard Niklasch Expert

Enter "Rhein" into the locality search field, scroll past all the German etc. stuff, and you'll find it:
Rhein Property

(Although there seems to be a bit of a mix-up with Edenville and the Fluoro-Pargasite TL…)



30th Jul 2014 22:36 UTCDoug Daniels

Sounds like it would be a good study site for a local geology student wanting to do a thesis.

13th Aug 2014 17:32 UTCTravis Hetsler

BUMP!!! Any more finds from this amazing site?

16th Aug 2014 23:16 UTCGlenn Rhein

Jeff was kind enough to give me this copy from the 196th meeting North Jersey mineralogical Society. The field trip planned for June 13th 1964 is to the property we now own.

Gerhard, part of the mix up is that Amity and Edenville boarder at the back of our property. There is really no distinct line. They are very small hamlets in the town of Warwick. Also we haven't found clintonite here, it is from just down the road. It needs to be taken off the list of minerals from the Rhein property page.

17th Aug 2014 01:05 UTCWayne Corwin


26th Aug 2014 00:12 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hey Travis , just a six inch by three inch deep crevice between two boulder that produced a couple of dozen interesting intertwined crystals in loose dirt from Sundays dig.

Up to one inch. One larger crude spinel with bright blue magnetite crystals imbedded in the surface, hard to see in the photo.

26th Aug 2014 00:41 UTCChris Rayburn


26th Aug 2014 04:18 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert


I can't believe it!!!

26th Aug 2014 17:20 UTCFrank Craig

Hi Glenn:

I am new to this forum so haven't been following the thread, but from what I've seen - very impressive!

Although you've probably already addressed this, i'll ask anyway. There was mention of the presence of amphibole and pyroxene at your site. Was that ever confirmed?

Thanks for your time!



27th Aug 2014 01:40 UTCGlenn Rhein

Hi Frank, in the amphibole group we have Fluoro-edenite, Fluoro-tremolite , Magnesiohastingsite and Fluoro-pargasite and the pyroxenes are Diopside and Augite but right now I have been digging Spinel and Clino Humite with some big Phlogopite sheets. I'm still looking for those famous big Amity Spinels.

27th Aug 2014 17:46 UTCFrank Craig

Hi Glenn:

Thanks for getting back to me. I know this has been asked, but I haven't gotten far enough into the thread to find the response. I would be interested in the amphiboles (particularly the edenite and magnesiohastingsite) and pyroxenes from the area. So if you are planning on selling any of the specimens (or small portion of one), please keep me in mind. Either send me a PM or email me at fmcphoto@excite.com.

Also, just for my curiosity, did you have any of the material tested (ie. EDS / WDS)?

I, and the club I belong to, are always looking for new areas to collect. So, if you ever open the site to collectors (you've probably already addressed this to; i should read the whole conversation at some point :-D) let me know.

Thanks for your time!



8th Nov 2014 23:13 UTCGlenn Rhein

Glassy edenite crystals with diopside, fluorappitite , small Titanites and zircons. To big to haul out of the woods

9th Nov 2014 02:11 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

I'll bring my hand truck :)

9th Nov 2014 13:29 UTCWayne Corwin


You have a back-hoe,,,, come on Glenn,,,, Haul that wonderfull sucker out of the woods,,,,,, put it in a safer place :-D

And .... Keep On Rockin' (tu)

10th Nov 2014 11:22 UTCChris Rayburn

That's a great one to finish off the season Glenn!

15th Nov 2014 22:20 UTCGlenn Rhein

That boulder is 4 feet by 3 feet, no hand truck is going to move it and to many trees in the way for the backhoe. I'm going to wait for snow and try and drag it out with the small machine. These little fluorappitite crystals from the same spot are the first ones to fluoress and are in massive scapolite with edenite and diopside that is not fluorescent. They are more blue than the other apatite I've found

15th Nov 2014 22:47 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

Nice colour!

18th Nov 2014 00:10 UTCAnonymous User

I just read this thread from start to finish.

Absolutely tremendous work. I am shocked, amazed and so glad you have found this. Massive applause.

18th Nov 2014 01:08 UTCWayne Corwin

Glenn should put the whole spot under a building,,,

clean off all the trees, and dirt,,,

and expose the whole thing,,,,,,,,,

What a Magnificent Museum Display that would make ! ! ! ! ! !

:-D (tu) ;-) :-) :-D

22nd Nov 2014 23:15 UTCGlenn Rhein

It would make a great mineral park , if I was rich I might use your idea Wayne.

Thanks Matt and Matthew......

There are nice little zircons here but they are in massive scapolite and you have to be lucky to find one not broken.

My first Zicon twin, only about 10 mm has a black band of another mineral on the bottom

22nd Nov 2014 23:28 UTCVitaliy

Very nice Zircons it seems the material and species you keep discovering is endless. I will have to find time to make a trip down there one day. I can only imagine how many days or weeks i would need to explore and prospect the property.

Thanks for oposting the updates. The ground must be frozen already though at this time so it looks like collecting season will have to wait for next spring.

25th Nov 2014 13:16 UTCWayne Corwin

(tu) What a sweet pair of Zircons Glenn (tu)

25th Nov 2014 14:33 UTCStephanie Martin

What Wayne said.:)-D

25th Nov 2014 15:44 UTCKeith Wood

Has anyone endeavored to make a geologic map of this property showing the bands of marble and silicates, and the various mineral occurrences? Seems like it deserves a website with an interactive map and photos. It would make a cool project for members of a club, especially young people.

25th Nov 2014 15:48 UTCMaggie Wilson Expert

What Wayne said AND what Keith said.

25th Nov 2014 16:38 UTCFrank Craig

Sounds like a good idea Keith!(tu)

6th Nov 2016 16:10 UTCGary Moldovany

This is still a fascinating thread and an endlessly interesting locality. Glenn has sold some of the lots but there are still a few areas of interest. Adjoining properties in the area are also showing deposits of the same minerals. The land on which the old Rudy Farm exists has been sold as well, unfortunately. Treasure any mineral samples that you have from there as future collecting opportunities will be limited, if at all. There is a reference to the locality in the latest edition of "The Minerals of New York State".

21st Nov 2016 18:16 UTCAndy Givens

Man I just love reading this thread. I am greatful to have to oppertunity to have been able to spend some time hounding with you glenn. Keep On Rockin!!!

2nd Sep 2017 01:57 UTCEric Barg

I would like to combine order crystals from the

e bay store.

Can i do that here?

2nd Sep 2017 02:09 UTCGary Moldovany

Eric, I sent you a private message. Gary Moldovany

8th Sep 2017 05:57 UTCDaniel May

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