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Fakes & FraudsMinerals Guaranteed NOT to Have Any Healing Properties
I thought you might enjoy my signs, from the Kitchener-Waterloo (Ontario) gem and mineral club this past Saturday. For those who don't want to see my ugly mug, the signs say
4th May 2014 12:26 BSTJeffrey Shallit
Our minerals are guaranteed NOT to have any healing properties whatsoever.
Should you be healed, a refund will gladly be issued.*
* Upon production of a note, attesting to the healing by a licensed physician.
Hi Jeffrey, I just love that sign, as I often get pestered by people asking if I have minerals and crystals that will help them when they are or have been sick, so I will also put the same kind of poster on my front door, thankyou....
4th May 2014 14:33 BSTSpencer Ivan Mather
Truth in advertising! I like it!
4th May 2014 18:00 BSTRob Woodside Manager
I do not see the humor in the sign.If I was into crystal power etc. going to a rock show for the first time I would have left as soon as I saw that sign.No money spent.Dinosaurs in a dying hobby are in no position to discriminate & ostracize an entire community because of their beliefs.They should welcome these people in and except them,sell to them,educate them about things like fair prices etc.Enjoy a new way to look at rocks.They should not be ridiculed and BULLIED at Mindat or anywhere else.In America there are programs going on now in our schools teaching young people that it is not ok to do nothing when you see bullying happening.We need that at mindat.The administrators should step in and stop these kind of posts when they start.I can not keep doing it on my own.Any help out there?.......Steve
5th May 2014 01:27 BSTSteve Federico
If I was into crystal power etc. going to a rock show for the first time I would have left as soon as I saw that sign.No money spent
5th May 2014 01:46 BSTJeffrey Shallit
Fine with me. I don't mind selling to believers in crystal healing for their own personal use, but I refuse to sell to anyone who's going to make money doing "crystal healing" on others. To do so would be to be complicit in fraud.
They should not be ridiculed and BULLIED at Mindat or anywhere else.
Get a grip! My sign is completely truthful. It doesn't "bully" anyone. It made a lot of people laugh, and I even had a couple of good discussions with believers in crystal healing.
The administrators should step in and stop these kind of posts when they start.
Right, censorship of ideas you don't like is always the solution.
I agree with Steve. At first thought it is amusing, but, like it or not, these people are a real component of the marketplace, and as such we will encounter them at shows. It behooves us to treat them with respect even if we differ with their views.
5th May 2014 01:50 BSTKeith Wood
I am not saying we have to respect their views - nobody can be compelled to respect what they see as ludicrous. I am saying that we should respect them as the human beings they are, regardless of their views, and not subject them to public mockery - it strikes me as small minded mock them in that way.
It also makes no marketing sense. Their money spends as well as anyone's. But it is not just them you may offend; there is a less kooky element that doesn't believe the healing stuff that will also find your signs offensive. I might even think twice about buying from you because of them.
This is all coming from a devoted Christian, not some member of the PC Police. It just seems like there is more than enough rancor in the world without adding to it needlessly.
Now if you want to put those in your rock room, go right ahead.
I find Jeffrey's signs to be quite humorous and creative, and see nothing offensive or rancorous in them. The sign only mentions his own crystals, and says nothing insulting about other peoples' beliefs. If it turns off some crystal healing believer from buying from Jeffrey, then Jeffrey suffers economic loss and the buyer will get her crystals elsewhere from someone who has no such sign, but I can't imagine anyone getting offended unless perhaps they were already feeling insecure about their belief in the mystical.
5th May 2014 02:24 BSTAlfredo Petrov Manager
Mineral shows should seriously not be encouraging belief in healing properties of minerals. People actually die by delaying access to real medical treatment while they try "alternative therapies". I can't stop someone from believing in pseudoscience, but I applaud those like Jeffrey who take a public stand against it.
Good stuff, it is a funny sign that can't hurt anyone but the seller and the very thin skinned! If any censorship is to be done it should be to try to stamp out the pseudoscientific rubbish that seems to be getting more popular among the general public not those poking fun at it.
5th May 2014 09:31 BSTToby Billing
Good on you Jeffrey,
5th May 2014 10:06 BSTPierre Rondelez
I applaud your stand and your humorous signs, also thumbs up for Alfredo when he points out that people actually die by delaying access to real medical treatment while they try "alternative therapies".
I find it extremely disturbing that people claim at the same to be "devoted Christian" together with " It just seems like there is more than enough rancor in the world without adding to it needlessly "and finish their reply with "Crystals AND Pistols".
I, as a mineral collector/dealer, only attend 2 Mineral Shows in Belgium: Gent and Harelbeke where on both Shows any sign or sale of "therapeutic, alternative, healing properties minerals/crystals etc" is strictly forbidden.
They are both VERY good shows and when people want to buy crystals for their own use, believing the "magic" I certainly will sell them, it may even help them in a way if they believe strongly enough "the placebo effect" you know........
My 5 cents,
Personally, I love the sign and would happily included it on my own table at a show, in a different or "ideal" world that is.
5th May 2014 12:01 BSTMark Heintzelman Expert
But as a human being, the idea that we have no "sacred cows", that there won't be people who are truly offended by having others mock their beliefs, is just not realistic. Try being an outspoken atheist for instance. I am always reminded that I "have to" have respect, at least for the nonsense that is the 4, maybe 5, major religions of the world, despite the fact that there is no aspect about them that can be proven worthy of "belief" either. Where is a person of science to go with this expectation, and why are my beliefs not worthy of this kind of respect? Simply because they are NOT based on, to the best of our limited abilities, disprovable "truths"?
Best to deal with it on a case by case basis, in private and amongst people you know and trust, lest the unwashed hordes take at you with their torches and pitchforks.
PS: Jeffrey, this doesn't mean I don't actually admire you "stepping up to the plate" on this. Kudos!! :D
The signs are funny, I got a laugh out of it. I understand that everyone has different viewpoints on this. I guess it depends on who you want to sell minerals to. We encourage the "metaphysical people" to buy minerals from us and we stock certain specimens specifically aimed at that market. After selling at shows for several years, I have been analyzing the makeup of show attendees. It appears that a significant percentage of show attendees are NOT serious mineral collectors, therefore if you want to sell rocks, you have to have something for everybody. Why do you think that so many "mineral" shows have dealers in beads, jewelry, polished stones, cabachons, etc.?
5th May 2014 12:34 BSTGary Moldovany
It appears that a significant percentage of show attendees are NOT serious mineral collectors, therefore if you want to sell rocks, you have to have something for everybody.
5th May 2014 13:14 BSTJeffrey Shallit
That's certainly true. I'd even guess at our local mineral shows, 95% of the people who come are not serious mineral collectors.
But they are precisely the people who can be fooled by bogus claims (or at least claims without any serious evidence) about the "healing properties" of minerals! My signs (and I have others - if you want, ask me for a copy of my serious and detailed handout "The Sad Truth About Crystal Healing" that I give away at shows - over 250 copies have been picked up by attendees over the last few years) are intended to educate and perhaps even provoke serious thought about these bogus claims.
As the people who study and sell minerals, we have a duty and an obligation to be truthful and not participate in fraud. I only wish the geological and mineralogical societies would step up to the plate and issue statements on the matter. I've tried to get two different mineralogical societies to do so, but to say they are reluctant would be to understate the reaction I got.
Having run a mineral store for many years we often had the people who believed in crystal healing powers. Having grown up in the sciences I talked about the best response. People certainly have rights to beliefs and opinions so I only said I was a scientist and had no proof of the crystals having "powers". That usually stopped any further conversation without offending. My wife often said if there was anything to it we would be the healthiest people around! I wish!!
5th May 2014 13:58 BSTRolf Luetcke Expert
I have noticed at the Tucson Mineral Show that the metaphysical guide has now gotten larger than the regular show guide.
I actually picked one of the guides up one time and had to read my wife an article at the back. It was about a recently discovered mineral and the article was talking about all the ancient healing powers of this particular mineral. Try and get your mind around that one!!
As has been said above, if people believe in things in their personal lives and don't interfere with anyone else, no major harm done.
I used to think I could change the world but with age realized I was pretty much trying to stop the wind from blowing.
I agree with Alfredo completely and if anyone ever tries to continue a conversation about healing powers I would gladly enter those waters.
my 5 cents worth
I think your signs are funny, and they would not turn me off in any way, but then I am not a believer in any metaphysical effects of crystals. I don't mind using some of their descriptive terms in marketing though. I recently sold a bunch of "super seven" amethyst crystals, most of which shipped to Thailand and China.
5th May 2014 16:12 BSTDennis McCoy
I'm waiting to hear about someone filing a lawsuit because the crystals didn't heal them as promised.
5th May 2014 17:43 BSTDoug Daniels
5th May 2014 19:22 BSTDon Swenson
A modest suggestion for another sign for your establishment: "Please be advised that the owner(s) of this establishment confess to having a sense of humor."
Wow!This is what I'm talking about.First Thank You to Keith.I do not believe in mystic powers in rocks.I believe in people.In the past in one of the threads I defended these people with a story of a real person I knew fighting cancer that was into crystal power.She lost the good fight......after getting all the real help she could.People are Not dying because of this.Scare tactics.They find peace and hope in it when science has let them down.The word respect was used by many of you but you need to google it and read what it means."A public stand against" belief is not cool.Governments do it in nasty ways.Ask a Jewish person."thin skinned" in America there is a football team called the Redskins.They use a logo of a native american.Very offensive to all Native Americans,the owner and fans say they(an entire race) should stop being thin skinned.It makes me sad to see so little support here for doing the right thing.If a super small group like rock hounds can't be open to all, always and equally then how can there be any hope for the entire planet and race?We need to stop these every so many months attack on rock healing folks in the forums.Censorship done right.Thank You.......Steve
5th May 2014 23:10 BSTSteve Federico
.It makes me sad to see so little support here for doing the right thing.
6th May 2014 02:21 BSTJeffrey Shallit
Isn't it evident that at least some of us disagree with you what the "right thing" to do is?
A woman friend of mine asked me if there was a rock which cures depression, I told her that getting a nice big diamond from a man usually helps.
6th May 2014 10:24 BSTTom Shango
All the best.
I think the matter of political correctness here on this site is at times way over done. In the time of Galileo, the authorities were the Church and they were prepared to do a lot more to him than ridicule him for expressing his views about how he thought the world worked. We live in a rather free society. I would agree however that freedom of speech does extend to some one screaming fire where there is none in a crowded theater. I don't think we have that problem yet.
6th May 2014 10:39 BSTRock Currier Expert
I certainly don't believe that crystals have any directly healing properties, and went through a time when I was angered by some metaphysical dealers selling shards of low grade quartz of zero value for hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars. Some of the stories they come up with are even more ludicrous. Obviously none of these claims have any basis in science...at all. Obviously most all who frequent this site approach their collecting and interest in minerals from a scientific point of view, and thus it is easy for every one to gang up on those who believe in the other side of things. It happens a lot, and often times replies are quite cynical and at times mean spirited. I get it. But I also get that certainty isn't a luxury afforded human beings. I would like to think the posters on this site, myself included, are as sure as people can possibly be that crystals don't heal--at least not explicitly. I also don't think the sign that started this thread is something that would cause anyone much insult or heartache, however, since there is a discussion, I think it should probably state "I personally don't believe my crystals have healing powers"...etc. I think the part about issuing refunds borders on sarcastic/cynical. Obviously no Dr. would be ever be able to ascribe healing to a crystal, even if the crystal was in fact responsible for the healing. I guess I just think that crystals have a very powerful draw, as evidenced by the interest expressed daily on this site, and others, and as evidenced by the money, time and effort we are willing to spend to hold and own such beauty. The passion people have for minerals is very plainly obvious, and who's to say at the end of the day that such passion, and knowledge of beauty doesn't indeed affect our overall well being. Is that claim scientific, of course it is not. Is science the only thing? Not according to Einstein, or Newton, or Kepler, or Copernicus, Galileo, Descartes, Boyle, etc. etc. etc.
6th May 2014 12:03 BSTTom V.
Tom, there are many minerals with actual medicinal properties, some of which are still in use in modern medicine, for instance zabuyelite is used for depression, palygorskite and montmorillonite for diarrhea, nahcolite as antacid, calcite as antacid or for calcium supplementation, chalcanthite and goslarite as dermal antibacterials, borax as antibacterial in ophtalmology, montroydite as antiparasital in ophtamology, arsenolite in chemotherapy, gypsum also has medicinal uses including calcium supplementation, halite as nutritive source of sodium, etc...
6th May 2014 14:50 BSTcascaillou
6th May 2014 14:57 BSTTom V.
Yes, no doubt many minerals are essential to our continued living, salt being a good example. My response, and I believe the topic of this thread as a whole, address "crystal healing,"--the idea that holding a quartz crystal, or meditating with a piece of amazonite in your hand, will bring about the magical healing of various ailments and diseases.
The crystal healing bit has to do with "energies" that affect things like our "chakras" (whatever those are) and such, but which science as yet has to measure. As such, maybe its related to the dark energy posited by the astrophysicists - energy they are sure is out there, but we don't know how to measure and quantify. It is supposed to affect the physical universe, so.....
6th May 2014 16:36 BSTDoug Daniels
There are actually a few scientifical studies (notably about magnetite bracelets) which show that the so-called "crystal magnetism/energy" is superstition, and at best may relate to placebo effect.
6th May 2014 16:59 BSTcascaillou
Let's still note that while placebo is a brain trick, the brain (i.e. nervous system) affects the immune system (meaning that stress and depression can weaken your immune system). Which of course doesn't mean that a placebo will heal you from anything.
Anyway, every time "crystal healing" is debated, I feel it is important to remind people that such debate shouldn't stifle the facts, which are that medicine has proven that some minerals can heal you, without any unexplainable phenomenoms taking place.
That's hilarious! Many dealers actually encourage them just to get a sale... it's a bit disappointing.
6th May 2014 17:57 BSTIbrahim Jameel Expert
When asked if any of my rocks have unspecified "powers," I start to show my radioactive specimens.
When specific powers are asked for, I politely reply "it's a load of BS" or perhaps find a more tame way to voice my skepticism, depending on my level of annoyance, which is typically correlated to how many of my specimens they have already rubbed up on, or otherwise straddled.....
For as long as @$$holes trademark rock names to dupe people into buying them, I shall continue to ridicule.
For many years, we posted a number of signs in our selling rooms in Tucson and Denver. Some were informational, some were just poking fun. Alfredo might remember one of my favorites:
6th May 2014 18:44 BSTTony Nikischer Manager
6th May 2014 19:16 BSTMichael Hatskel
Making money off one's math disability is even worse than making money off one's belief in supernatural rocks! ;-)
Heck, if they can't do math, they shouldn't be trying to get a discount......!
6th May 2014 20:01 BSTDoug Daniels
Jeff!,I have finally figured out why you have never bought any specimens from me at that show. I was only one table away from you. 99% of my specimens were silver . Even crystals of silver! You would have had to take your signs down. ;-)
7th May 2014 03:48 BSTRobert Land
Jeff, and everyone here who collects minerals. How many times have you had a hard day at work or anywhere, then came home and sat down in front of your collection with a beer, or, of it was a really bad day something stronger. Then remembered where this one came from, how hard it was to chisel that one out of matrix, or the pride you have in that one outstanding specimen in the center of your display. Or remember when the raccoon stole the loaf of bread out of your truck right in front of you, or when you tripped over two mating skunks in the bush, because you were looking for rocks not skunks. ( I got away. they had other things on their minds) Many times I've sat down and relaxed in front of my collection. Moved a specimen so the light catches it just that little bit better. Then moved it back the next day. Refocused myself and and feel the stress just ebb out of me. I know my minerals have healing powers. They take my mind off the rest of this messed up world. I wonder how much better they would be if I oriented them North, South, East and West?......... What's your thoughts Jeff. Would reorienting them help? You can give me your opinion at the next club meeting. Oh boy, am in for it!
Attempting to profit from the gullibility of others is a time honored and world wide activity for millions of people. It is not restricted to specimen dealers or used car salesmen. Trying to change this are rocky fields to till, and getting upset about this facet of human behavior will lead to an unhappy life.
7th May 2014 12:10 BSTRock Currier Expert
A diamond in a ring, handed over after a candle-light dinner, has the force to change a man's life forever!
7th May 2014 12:33 BSTErik Vercammen Expert
Erik, a diamond in a ring is a mutilated crystal. ;-)
7th May 2014 17:39 BSTAlfredo Petrov Manager
I found Jeff's sign very funny and imaginative. Furthermore it said nothing about anyone else's minerals only his, so why should anyone take offence? From what I have observed watching healie-feelies, it would appear that not all specimens of the same species have the same " power" . They pick and chose between specimens of the same species based on the "vibes" they get from the specimen. Jeff is just telling them not to waste their time checking out his stuff because it will not be of any use to them. I think that is very considerate of Jeff.
7th May 2014 18:00 BSTReiner Mielke Expert
They have even found "power" in pieces others can't ' feel', or believe. So I'm sure if they handled Jeffs', some would say 'this one does.'
8th May 2014 20:24 BSTD Mike Reinke
Threads on minerals have even more power than the minerals themselves. A good thread makes me laugh, think, even marvel, as well as calm down. The good photography mysteriously amplifies the power, and a beer, as mentioned, all the more so. so...bring on the power!
P.S. Alfredo, calling a diamond a 'mutilated crystal', was awesome.
8th May 2014 20:42 BSTRoger Lang Manager
great stuff :-) ... could have been from myself. I am really pi**ed about all the politically correct stuff - and the healy feely people may do what they want but not in my realm and not at my booth (if i have any). I refused several times to sell minerals to people who told me they want to grind the mineral and give them as a cure to their kids (one time it was Vivianite, another time stibnite). Some of these people are dangerous to their environment (if they convince people not to visit a med) but most of them are harmless. They may harm themselves, they may get better by placebo effect, they may feel better if they purchased a common rock crystal as azeztulite or what ever it is called. But i feel free to tell them it is BS and yes, i even am inspired to design a similar "warning" ;-)
But OTOH ...... c´mon folks, there are quite far worse things in life these days .....
Don Swenson Wrote:
8th May 2014 20:46 BSTRoger Lang Manager
> A modest suggestion for another sign for your
> establishment: "Please be advised that the
> owner(s) of this establishment confess to having a
> sense of humor."
And i second that statement Don :-)
This is one expensive dying hobby!
8th May 2014 22:59 BSTRudy Bolona Expert
To the original poster - love the signs.
13th May 2014 07:36 BSTDale Foster Expert
As far as the 'politically correct' comments go, it is a pity that society now seems to be plagued by self-righteous members of the Cult of the Permanently Offended who feel the need to be horrified on behalf of people who are probably too busy getting on with their lives in the first place to give a sh*t.
this is an advert that clearly shows banter between mineral collectors and hollistic collectors. no harsh language has been used, so it should be deemed humourous. p.s i think its pretty funny :-)
13th May 2014 12:48 BSTGeorge deWit Chaney
Per Reiner's comment, I always buy minerals (or not) based upon the vibes I get from them. And they just keep vibing to me with the same "tune" afterward.
13th May 2014 20:11 BSTNorman King Expert
13th May 2014 23:19 BSTKeith Wood
Galileo did far more to make the RC Church mad than just promote good science. He was a very outspoken and unrelenting critic of the RC Church on all kinds of matters, printing and distributing pamphlets against it.
Don't get me wrong. I'm for free speech. I deplore the way he was treated by the RC Chruch. It was inexcusable. I don't defend, support, or align with any of that. I'm just mentioning that their response to him was about a lot more than just science.
This business with taking a public shot at crystal healer types just seems to be in a different category. A big institution has it coming if they're being stupid. Such individuals won't be helped by taking shots at them however. It is just mocking.
When healy-feelies publish books and set up businesses claiming unsubstantiated healing properties of minerals then they are taking public shots at science so public shots at them seems fair to me. Besides " if you can't take the heat then stay out of the kitchen".
21st May 2014 19:55 BSTReiner Mielke Expert
I agree with Reiner 100% regarding the “pushers” of this unfounded crap. However, the people who fall for this BS are not all to blame. I consider them to be ignorant and uneducated in the sciences. They are the victims of the unscrupulous money grubbing parasites that propagate these unproven claims of mystical crystal healing. Looking for a root cause leads me to believe that we are sorely lacking in scientific education. Many do not have enough scientific knowledge to make sound judgments in this regard. I’m afraid that unless this condition changes, we are headed back towards the dark ages and science will no longer triumph over bulls**t and superstition, except for perhaps the 1% who can still afford an education.
21st May 2014 23:36 BSTMineralogical Research Company Expert
Thats also true, it's not just that those who attribute powers to various rocks are being manipulated, it's that it's due to their lack of education in the subject, and perhaps a little common sense as well. That however is where Mindat can thrive. There are plenty of members who are not only knowledgeable, but have enough data in their heads to write a couple books. There are also numerous members that specialize in a specific area of mineral collecting and therefore have the inherent and often specific knowledge in that area, more data that can be be used to educate people.
22nd May 2014 05:59 BSTLeor Goldberg
As for the sign, I think it humorously points out his view on the healing of crystals. I didn't perceive it to be hateful or even biting, I think the sign is simply, a sign. it clearly shows the person's view on the subject, and as evidenced can also provoke a conversation on the topic. It's also funny :-D
I have never seen anything that could be remotely considered bullying on this site. If you consider the OP's signs to be such you have a very different definition of the term than I, to the point that I believe you are weakening and debasing the word.
22nd May 2014 18:40 BSTScott Braley
People believe many things that I consider absurd; I have values and preferences that others find stupid. This is the natural order of things.
You would have a hard time offending me with your beliefs, or with your comments on mine; annoy, aggravate, amuse, intrigue - these are much easier responses (for me at least) than offense.
I believe that crystal energy or healing is completely false, and is the province of the stupid and gullible, and those who prey on them. Question is, why would you care enough about my opinion to feel either offended or bullied?
22nd May 2014 22:42 BSTMineralogical Research Company Expert
I think that you answered your own question. (tu)
Ok, here's a good one. We were set up as a vendor at the North Jersey Mineralogical Society Show at the Sterling Hill Mine today. I had a woman come to my booth and look at some crystals, in particular a large smoky quartz and some black tourmaline. She pulls out what she called a pendulum, a cut stone in the shape of a diamond on a chain. She held the pendulum over the mineral specimen. She said if it swung from side to side that the crystal was good for her. If it swung back and forth, then it was not. She did not buy the $130 smoky quartz specimen. She did buy a $10 black tourmaline because the pendulum told her she should. True story!
2nd Jun 2014 01:42 BSTGary Moldovany
I think that going down the road of Censorship here would be a dangerous mistake. It brings to mind recent bans of certain words in school books in several countries: many of these "political correctness" decisions were completely ridiculous. Similarly, in today's atmosphere one is soon afraid to open one's mouth or even smile in a friendly, courteous manner towards a co-worker or customer or whatever, fearing risk of harassment charges or what-not. And I'm certainly 100% for religious & sexual choice - thinking of some close relatives here - and as an entrepreneur need to be able to serve all kinds of people and enjot doing so! Humour should not all be killed off and whoever does not like these signs can turn away and carry on to the booths that are "politically correct" and spend there money there. I know a nice rock friend and mineral site "project partner"who is into "crystal healing" (I've told her I'm NOT into that sort of thing & that hasn't hurt our relationship) and I'm going to send here this link to see what she thinks. Why not just add a few smileys to the signs & people can them calm down a bit. People who belong to any sort of social, religious, scientific or whatever group should tolerate some humour if it is not vicious or violent, otherwise they are intolerant other people's thoughts and do not deserve our full respect. Think of the laughing buddha...we need to be able to laugh at ourselves and sometimes, hey, enjoy life - it is so short!
2nd Jun 2014 04:38 BSTJoel Dyer
Oh, and one more thing, why not start a "summer series" (well, it might not be summer all over the world at the moment, true) of humorous sketches etc. of even "mad scientists" scoping ridiculously small - fly poop sized - microscoping mineral samples & arguing what sub-species the specimens belong to and so on.... Sure, we should take our hobbies seriously, but not too seriously all the time. Let's ALL laugh at ourselves every now and then, but not in a vicious way, OK?
2nd Jun 2014 05:00 BSTJoel Dyer
Lisa- why did you bother? You know our response to your post.
18th Sep 2017 04:03 BSTDoug Daniels
Joining a group to post a comment like this is unlikely to help your cause any. Surely you must have something better to do.
18th Sep 2017 04:05 BSTDoug Schonewald
Some people still believe the earth is flat. Some people still believe the sun rotates around the earth. Some people still believe that through alchemy you can turn more common minerals or elements to gold or silver. Some people believe in witchcraft and sorcery. Some people believe we are descended from aliens. Some people believe crystals have mystic healing powers.
The metaphysical trade exists because people believe it works. Just because you believe something doesn't make it so.
Hey, I like this "silly" site with non-healing rocks, I am offended by your comments, Lisa :(
19th Sep 2017 03:12 BSTA. Mathauser
It made me laugh, don't see anything offensive by it, there is a big difference between humerous banter and bullying, bullying can ruin peoples lifes, I cant honestly accept that this would have such a negative affect on anyone.
19th Sep 2017 12:08 BSTJason Evans
I think the "power" is the placebo effect. if someone believes in something like this and they feel better then more power to them. If it brings them happiness then even more power to them.
19th Sep 2017 14:50 BSTMichael Harwell
With this said, I wouldn't skip western medicine in place of crystals but do believe in the placebo effect.
Happiness is in the eye of the beholder. ( I know it is beauty is the eye of the beholder but this works too.).
And again, if it makes someone happy....then good for them. And it makes the crystal sellers happy. So everyone wins. Whether you believe or not.
My two cents.
This made me remember this funny thing many years ago in Indonesia..
19th Sep 2017 17:22 BSTRio Nevin
So a little kid found a stone supposedly made by a lightning from the recent storm, and someone believed (I don't remember the first person to believe that and the reason was though) that water that had been dipped by the stone possessed healing properties.
Since the kid's name was Ponari so the stone was dubbed "Batu Ponari" (Ponari's stone).
The news spread quickly and people started to line up at his house to get healed and it became a national news headline. Some people believed too much and they even drank the water coming from his home's drainage! Lol!
...I just watched the TV news at home, laughing all the time. This is simply unforgettable.
The only people "offended" by this are those just worried about losing a customer who believes this nonsense.
19th Sep 2017 20:21 BSTJolyon Ralph Founder
Who's Lisa? I don't see her name on this topic? I was rather interested to see what wakadoo stuff she said!!! I just need a laugh, I was sick through the last weekend of the Denver show and need a pick-me-up today...
19th Sep 2017 20:28 BSTScott Rider
19th Sep 2017 21:33 BSTDoug Schonewald
I think a manager must have deleted her post on the thread.
That is what I was thinking... Oh well, I needed a laugh and this topic was pretty good anyway!
19th Sep 2017 21:49 BSTScott Rider
Two things to bear in mind about this and related discussions:
19th Sep 2017 22:32 BSTEd Clopton Expert
1. There's a difference between respecting a person and respecting an idea that he/she holds. It's possible--imperative, even--to respect a person with whom you disagree unless they have done something (other than disagree with you) to forfeit your respect. By treating people decently regardless of what we think of their beliefs we can reduce the overall blood pressure of the world significantly.
2. In communications, perception always trumps intent, in that the effect a message has on a listener is determined more by how he/she receives it than by how you meant it. Something that you mean in all seriousness may strike me as hilarious; something that you mean as an innocent joke may interact with some idea or bad memory of mine and make me furious. We can't be responsible for reading the minds of everyone who might receive some message we put forth, but we are responsible for taking reasonable care not to knowingly provoke others, especially just for our own entertainment.
HI! This is my very first post and I was initially drawn to the page because of the title. I am not on the fence, but am able to see both sides and do my best as a rock vendor to satisfy anyone who comes by to purchase rocks. Hey, we all know how funny it can sound to some people that we are actually BUYING rocks! I love rocks and I am not embarrassed that it is something I spend a lot of money on for the past 27+ years.
19th Sep 2017 22:43 BSTDawn Markus
I wish I could share something funny with you, Scott. I hope you feel better soon. I recently had someone at my table this past weekend (local rock club show) who wouldn't tell me their name because they said, "I thought you were psychic - don't you already know?". I have never claimed to be psychic. Read again: I do not claim to be psychic. I run a rockshop. So, it is unfortunate the presumptions that have been made. People in my locale also assume that I have additional metaphysical abilities just because I sell rocks, and because I am a very loving and intuitive person. The advice I give is based on my personal life experience and I do not say things because I am psychic (ps. all humans have the potential to be psychic - it is a muscle like anything else)
I agree that most healers in the metaphysical realm are not legit, but there are at least 1% who can do what they say they can do.
I started as a collector in 1990 and yes, I personally enjoy applying metaphysical beliefs to my life, and that includes religious ceremony such as Sunday church and also celebrating the change of seasons. My business is aside from that - I would rather talk about geological and mineralogical first. Those who happen to encounter me might need someone's guidance, so I try to guide people the best I can based on who I am as a person and not as a mineral collector. This includes telling people that the best voice to listen to is their own, and the best tool to heal them is their own mind. Furthermore, I am an honest rockshop. If someone is sick, I don't try to sell them a rock - I will tell them to go and buy some colloidal silver, or oil of oregano, or tincture of olive leaf, because those are the top three germ killers in my humble opinion... and will act a lot faster than any other method of healing.
people have believed in crystal healing since the beginning . there are many mysterious unexplainable things In the world. the people who believe in it are not going to be swayed or offended by someones sign. they understand that modern science is not up to speed with all that actually takes place in the realm of magic. not that I believe but I will say a lot of questions about basic things like quartz formation are answered with "theres still a lot we don't know about quartz." I think theres a lot we don't know about a lot of things. so maybe humbleness is the best approach to these matters.
19th Sep 2017 23:15 BSTDaniel Bennett
"people who believe in it are not going to be swayed or offended by someones sign. they understand that modern science is not up to speed with all that actually takes place in the realm of magic. "
20th Sep 2017 00:33 BSTMark Heintzelman Expert
Understand: To have thorough or technical acquaintance with or expertness in the practice of
pretty sure you need to replace that word with this one;
Believe: To hold as an opinion.
"Magic" is exactly what that word infers, supernatural, not bound by the laws of nature, not real, illusionary.
Overall, I'm also pretty sure no one here is going to agree with what you "believe" you know. We deal in science and facts, not religion and dogma.
I too noted Lisa's comment disappeared, shortly after I posted my comment. Mayhaps I offended her, and she deleted her post. If I offended her, I apologize. But I still stand by my comment.
20th Sep 2017 01:40 BSTDoug Daniels
those who believe are no doubt "thoroughly acquainted" with the truth that modern science has no room for crystal healing. accepting when we don't have all the facts is part of science. physical and metaphysical. that being said do crystal believers deserve the same kind of respect as religious believers?
20th Sep 2017 18:44 BSTDaniel Bennett
"If someone is sick I tell them to go see a (real) doctor." ...Even then you're not always safe. In some countries, homeopathy masquerades as real medicine.
20th Sep 2017 18:57 BSTAlfredo Petrov Manager
Doctors arent all they are quacked up to be either. One should take responsibility for ones own healing.
20th Sep 2017 19:35 BSTDawn Markus
I usually do not spend time discussing this kind of subject because people that believe in the healing power of crystals are not interested in a scientific based argumentation, but I decided to give my two cents.
20th Sep 2017 20:24 BSTJorge Santos Garcia
People in the ancient times, like the Neolithic, the old Egyptian period, the Roman period, the Middle Age and even in the 18th century also believed in sorcery, magic, the healing power of rocks, animals parts, plants, stars and everything else and they died from a simple infection and have a medium life span of 40 years or so. It was the hygiene care, the modern/scientific medicine and nutrition knowledge that lead to the nowadays life span of 80 years (and still increasing) in the Western society/culture. In those times people died from cancer and they do not even know that cancer is a disease - it was "God's will".
AIDS, cancer, pneumonia, yellow fever, black plague and all of other diseases that killed thousands of millions of people in the (not so long ago) past were not cured or healed by quartz crystals or vivianite, but by investigation based in the scientific method. Otherwise, why do we spend millions of euros trying to find a cure for malaria if it can be treated by some crystal put in the underwear of some believer in crystals' magic powers?
But we know that are too many people in the world, so if someone has to die, why not firstly those that believe in the magic power of crystals? I never discuss with them - "Oh, you believe in that? Good for you". Maybe one sucker less. The same way if someone says that is disease is God's will, I reply - "If it is God's will why are you under medical care? Do you dare going against God's will?".
To believe in the healing power of crystals or animal parts is not only nonsense, is stupidity and a civilizational setback. And is responsible, in what respects to animals, for the pain or killing of millions of them (pangolins, sharks, rhinoceros, to name just a very few) and the danger of extinction of a lot of species - And this must be fought with all our strength.
Jorge Santos Garcia
PS - Once a women was talking to me saying that a quartz crystal is female in its left side and male in its right side (or vice versa, I do not remember). I asked - Your left side or my left side? And if I turn the crystal 90º? And if I turned it 180º degrees - your left side of the quartz crystal/my right side of the quartz crystal is now your right side of the quartz crystal/my left side of the quartz crystal - which are the male and female sides now? Needless to say that our conversation ended at that moment with no answer from her.
Wow Dawn, I sure hope you haven't sent too many people to these "healers" or given any other bad advice to people who TRULY need a doctor.
20th Sep 2017 20:32 BSTScott Rider
In any case, you are in the wrong place. Not many MinDat-ers will take your comments seriously. I find it disturbing that people are so quick to jump to the "easy" answer instead of actually trying to think for their own using COMMON SENSE, or maybe going a little further and doing research on their own... Maybe its laziness, maybe its not having the opportunity of having a good science education, or both.
Either way, it saddens me that people believe in such dribble. People that believe in a mystical world don't care to know the truth. They are either lazy or brainwashed and won't hear of any "empirical evidence" because it takes away their easy answers. The evidence these people bring forth usually are coincidences and/or are placebo effects... Is there a top scientific institution proving ANY of their wackadoo theories? All these people can come up with is anecdotal evidence. Nothing is ever confirmed with a top scientific institution, never correlated with other experiments from other scientists and usually the best evidence they can provide is from their customers... Its all snake oil.
Some say education is the answer... Well, maybe, but only if the student is listening... But will they???
I don't want to start a war of words here... BUT, it really pisses me off when people dismiss doctors. The amount of education, money, time and sacrifice (personal, financial, etc) they put in to their education is something that NOT ONE HEELY-FEELY type would EVER go through. So insulting doctors just grinds my gears..
20th Sep 2017 21:53 BSTScott Rider
Dawn, you are better off spouting your rhetoric elsewhere... No one here will take you seriously...
"Doctors arent all they are quacked up to be either. One should take responsibility for ones own healing." And saying this is not only stupid, but also extremely bad advice. Yes, you should take responsibility on your own health by seeing people who KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.
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