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Fakes & FraudsAmethyst, real or fake?

25th Jun 2013 19:08 UTCDaniel de Vries

For quite some time I've had a small Amethyst cluster in my collection and I've been wondering if it's real or fake. I've attached three pictures. I have no information on locality, I bought this specimen about two years ago from a dealer in the Netherlands and paid about 20 Euros for it. It's about 12 centimeters in width. The purple colour looks unnatural to me, compared to other Amethyst I have in my collection. Weird thing is that only the tips are purple, surely it would be quite a challenge to dye a piece like this?

I'm curious about your thoughts!

Thanks,

Daniel

25th Jun 2013 19:17 UTCDon Saathoff Expert

looks natural to me.....dying a piece as selectively as the color is on this piece is would be quite a chore

25th Jun 2013 19:27 UTCAmanda Hawkins

That looks really unusual! I've had smokey quartz crystal clusters like that before.

25th Jun 2013 19:57 UTCAnonymous User

Clusters Of this complexity are all but impossible to grow. swlective dying woul be more uniform in nature . My best guess is that it is real. ...MDA

25th Jun 2013 22:28 UTCTim Jokela Jr

Dyed quartz xls are hideously obvious.

This is a little odd, but I can't think of how it could have been treated.

Crystalline amethyst is so abundant, there's surely no profit in treating it.

26th Jun 2013 03:23 UTCNik Nikiforou

I've seen lots of this with quite a few Chinese dealers, both at shows and on websites, and am 99% sure that it is modified white Quartz that has been super-heated and recrystallized in the presence of a substance that is gives it the purple color. Many similar specimens of green Quartz were being produced by the Chinese a few years ago (actually about 6 to 8 years) by super-heating the Quartz in the presence of Chromium, essentially melting the surfaces enough to absorb the coloring agent which then recrystallize as a green druze over the original Quartz crystals. You can see photos of the green version on the Vug Fake Minerals website:

Fake Minerals

Check out the third set of photos with the heading "Coated Crystals", subheading "Elemental bonding".

I hope that this helps.

Best regards,

Nik

26th Jun 2013 03:26 UTCNik Nikiforou

Also, check out this older thread:

Fake Quartz mindat thread

26th Jun 2013 07:03 UTCDaniel de Vries

Thanks for those links and information Nik, the color of the "Amethyst" in that older thread looks very similar to the specimen I have. So I guess it's fake then, that's good to know. I guess I'll have to place the specimen on one of the lower shelves in my display cabinet :-)

Daniel

28th Jun 2013 19:41 UTCRock Currier Expert

I've seen some man made amethyst clusters from Russia that remind me a little of your specimen. I wonder if this might be one of them.

2nd Jul 2013 17:10 UTCUdo Behner

Well its for shure man made amethyst, China brand. They overgrow mediocre natural quartz crystal specimen with amethyst using the hydrothermal method.

If you provide high pressure, high temperature and a mixture of water and washing soda quartz will disolve like sugar and can be grown as easily as alum crystals.

Some times ago I have had made some specimens in Russia using damaged Arkansas rock crystal specimen and even Washington Camp Japanese twins. Looked great. BTW always sold them as "man made" with the complete story.

The Chinese copy cat the process using huge hydrothermal units (huge means 1 cubic meter or 250 gallons and much more). The latest item is hydrothermaly grown chromium green quartz to produce fake prasem crystal specimen.

Watch for 3 side "pyramide" crystal tips instead of a 6 side one. Note the deep "inky" colored layer of amethyst which is only a few mm thick. Note the crystals on the back side of the specimen which is the former base of the rock crystal specimen used as a matrix. This is because the specimen are grown as "floaters" hanged up on steel wire, if they are smart they break off the part of the specimen with the rest of the wire to get rid of the evidence.

So your specimen is real amethyst grown on a natural rock crystal base. Its not dyed or comes out of a plastic injection mold.

BTW EURO 20.- is a fair retail price for such a specimen if you calculate the costs for the growing process. A real one of that size would be much more, considering the prices for amethyst specimen from Mexico.

The time it takes to grow such specimen is probably one to several weeks. With one run they can produce hundreds of kgs.

2nd Jul 2013 21:50 UTCTim Jokela Jr

I really do wish that the crooks running these faking operations could be hunted down and beaten with sticks.

Udo, thanks a ton for the detailed info. I am thoroughly amazed that the Russians have fallen so low as to have to fake amethyst.

Very, very cool to learn how the swine do it.

2nd Jul 2013 23:39 UTCWayne Corwin

Tim

What do you mean "beaten with sticks"?

We beat crooks with "R;-)CKS around here !

3rd Jul 2013 00:09 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

It's only criminal fakery if someone tries to sell it as explicitly natural, with a fake mine locality label. Otherwise it's "art", and worthy of appreciation. ;-)

We don't beat sculptors just because their statues aren't real people!

3rd Jul 2013 10:37 UTCMAGS

One has to appreciate how bad life is in Russia and China (and some parts Africa and the Middle East) for the common person. Corruption within the government and poverty and starvation everywhere. People are desperate to make money any way they can I'm afraid. Very difficult to understand when one lives in the richest countries of the world (which are a minority I'm sad to say). Open your eyes and heart.

3rd Jul 2013 12:12 UTCSpencer Ivan Mather

I have seen many man made quartz clusters, both green and amethyst, and yours looks like them..

Spencer.

3rd Jul 2013 12:26 UTCTim Jokela Jr

MAGS, lots of people live in poverty without resorting to crime. Though perhaps the Russians have a better excuse than most, what with Stalin having killed off anybody that showed potential.

3rd Jul 2013 17:15 UTCMAGS

People will do anything if they are starving to death, but I do agree, if it is man-made they let everyone know. People will still buy them as they are pretty, just like people buy dyed agate slices etc because they make pretty ornaments. At least some kiddies in China can eat (those that have not been murdered that is). :-(

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