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GeneralHelp identifying old crystal plate
30th Jul 2018 15:06 UTCJohan Kjellman Expert
Some info. The plate, numbered Tab. I., seems to depict quartz only. It was found in a copy of Prodromus Crystallographiæ from 1723 by Cappeller, but it is not any of Cappeller's three plates. Fig's 49-52 are versions of fig's 1-5 on the classic Steno plate from 1669.
I have searched a lot so I'll need "refined" advices or direct info.
thanks
10th Mar 2020 03:08 UTCGabriel Plattes
Pardon me for reviving an old one, but I found this quite fascinating.
The plate is very similar stylistically to plate III of the Prodromus. However, the plate and its numbered figures are indeed not discussed in the text (the other three are). But, the similarity got me thinking, what if it belongs to another work by Cappeller? I've attached an entry from Poggendorf, I 373. Might the plate come from 'De crystallorum generatione,' Act. Acad. Nat. Cur. Vol. IV? I tried to find this article on google books, but could not locate it. The serial is: Acta Academiae Caesareo-Leopoldinae Naturae Curiosorum (according to Agassiz's Bibliographia Zool. et geol.).
Do you own this work?
10th Mar 2020 09:06 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager
Equally you may be correct in your assumption of it being from a different book by the same author.
You say that "Fig's 49-52 are versions of fig's 1-5 on the classic Steno plate from 1669". However Cappeller was born 9 June 1685 so that would mean that if it was from 1669, it is not his, unless you mean that he copied those figures for his book.
Also, perhaps it is from the later German translation in 1922 and collated by Ludwig Burmester.
See: Burmester, "Geschichtliche Entwicklung des kristallographischen Zeichnens und dessen
Ausführung in schräger Projektion, "Zeitschrift fur Kristallograpohie 57 (1922-1923) p 706.
10th Mar 2020 09:46 UTCGabriel Plattes
Very good indeed, now we are having some fun exploring this fascinating plate.
Of the Prodromus there was only a single edition, other than the German ed., 1922. What Johan mentioned, figures 49-52, were indeed 'copied' or matched, to figs. 1-5 of Steno's De Solido, 1669 (please see attached). This happened on occasion for a number of titles. For example, figures from De Boodt's Gemmarum et Lapidum, 1609, are seen in a number of other publications, copied. Diderot's Encyclopedie, as another example, draws from numerous older editions for many of their illustrations, for the section that covers mining, mineralogy, &c.; drawing on Hooke, Leigh, Loehneyss, &c., &c.
Hrmm, it won't be a plate from the 1922 ed., that plate looks contemporary, the paper. Also, it is tipped in, just as many plates were in those days.
It is an educated guess only, that it might be from another work/article by Cappeller, on account of the similarity of the plates; or, perhaps he had intended to expand on the work, and that plate had been prepared for it, but no more was issued.
10th Mar 2020 09:54 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager
Gabriel
Johan mentions "It was found in a copy of Prodromus Crystallographiæ from 1723 by Cappeller". I'm not sure if Johan means that the plate was simply found loose in the publication or was bound into it. If loose then it could easily be from a later publication.
More info from Johan needed.
10th Mar 2020 10:09 UTCGabriel Plattes
10th Mar 2020 23:34 UTCJohan Kjellman Expert
10th Mar 2020 23:42 UTCGabriel Plattes
11th Mar 2020 00:33 UTCJohan Kjellman Expert
It actually shows images from 'my odd plate', page 125, supposedly as an original, so the copy Weber has worked with apparently has the plate as well. However in Cappeler's text I can only find references to the three common plates.
The Bourget-Cappeler seems to be a printed letter, I haven't found any info that it should have any plates, have you?
cheers
11th Mar 2020 01:26 UTCGabriel Plattes
Hrmm, very good indeed, fascinating, how I read that (so far) it would appear that the manuscript for the work, was longer than the Prodromus, and that it included data on quartz. When the Prodromus was issued, the section on quartz was not included. However, some material had been printed (presumably, that dealing with qtz), but was not included, or removed prior to issue. Possibly, the plate for that section was also printed (yours here), and that did make it in to some copies. The extra leaves were removed from all copies (as far as we know; it'd be interesting if copies exist, where those leaves had not been removed), and some copies retained the plate. A fascinating issue, this Prodromus.
Ah yes. Many articles in scholarly journals, and even books, were epistolary; Ferber's reise durch das Temeswarer bannat; Agricola's Bermannus; Pliny the Younger; &c. That article could have a plate or two. Not that I know of, of course. I've no access to it. It would be a good one to get a hold of though, I reckon. I might place an order at a local university. But, after receiving your Weber article, I incline to that plate belonging to the Prodromus - part of its publishing history. Changes made through publication, and that plate - for some unknown reason - being included in some copies, even though its text was not included/removed. 11th Mar 2020 01:34 UTCGabriel Plattes
It ought be remembered that a prodromus is an 'introduction' to a far larger work (the base of which was that manuscript). As they printed the prodromus, they changed their mind, they had intended on including the section on qtz, but did not do so for some reason. Some material was printed, but it was not included/removed, as the prodromus was set. But, the plate to that section, also ready, did made it into some copies. As I guess it, so far.
I thought you owned that copy - lucky bugger! I thought.
Oh, question, the other plates are tipped in the exact same fashion? Onto blank leaves, folding?
11th Mar 2020 01:37 UTCGabriel Plattes
That it is from another publication other than the Prodromus, of that, there is no doubt.
Keith,
Och... ;)
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