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Tr-State photos that don't belong

Posted by Dana Slaughter  
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Dana Slaughter August 19, 2018 04:25AM
The following is a list of photos that I don't believe belong in the Tri-State locality page:

https://www.mindat.org/photo-90525.html
Almost certainly Berry Materials quarry, North Vernon, Jennings Co. IN

https://www.mindat.org/photo-90525.html
Ditto, though less certain

https://www.mindat.org/photo-460922.html
Sweetwater mine, Ellington, Reynolds Co., MO

https://www.mindat.org/photo-4564.html
Likely Shangbao mine, Hunan, China

https://www.mindat.org/photo-4117.html
Never seen anything like it from Tri-State--looks like CO or Peru

https://www.mindat.org/photo-66627.html
Viburnum Trend...see micro dolomite xls

https://www.mindat.org/photo-354800.html
Viburnum Trend, MO---see dolomite xls

https://www.mindat.org/photo-610074.html
Likely Elmwood district, TN

https://www.mindat.org/photo-713819.html
Brushy Creek mine, Greeley, MO

There are a couple others that I consider doubtful but am not confident
due to photo quality, personal wavering, etc.

Thanks!
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Bob Harman August 19, 2018 05:51AM
DANA, et al:
I basically agree. After review:
the first 2 examples 90525 are identical, one and the same specimen, from Berry Materials in North Vernon, In
460922 agree
4564 could well be from Missouri, n.o.s., several localities. China??????
66627 agree
354800 octahedral galena associated with micro dolomites and micro chalcopyrite. West Fork Mine, Viburnum Trend District, Reynolds Co, Missouri
610074 ?
713819 agree

CHEERS............BOB
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Kevin Conroy August 19, 2018 01:42PM
Dana's right, none of these are from the Tri-State District.

4117 looks like some that I've seen from Park City District, Utah.
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Dana Slaughter August 19, 2018 08:26PM
Hi Bob,

4654 is a dead ringer for the Shangbao dolomite associated with tiny quartz crystals as mentioned in the description. These were available wholesale through Top Gem Minerals, Inc. and Collectors Edge Wholesale at Tucson several years ago. I had some of these and I would bet a house payment that it is from Shangbao---the backside is likely covered with tiny quartz crystals.
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Kelly Nash August 19, 2018 11:20PM
I agree with the others, but don't share your certitude on 4564 myself. Maybe Shangbao, maybe not, to me. FYI, there are a couple different pictures of the specimen, including the other side, on the John Betts Mineral Museum website, here: Dolomite with Quartz, but I'm not sure they prove anything. What I would like to see is whether the point of attachment shows the matrix is chert. That would indicate Tri-State. Is it the white coloration of the dolomite that is bothersome? The quartz?
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Keith Compton August 19, 2018 11:46PM
I'd be very surprised if John got this so wrong with (4564) - given that he says it is from his personal collection. Shoudl be able to check the base of the specimen - but that now depends on who now holds the specimen.
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Dana Slaughter August 20, 2018 01:11AM
Hi Kelly,

The coloration and morphology of the dolomite (and size of xls) along with the associated quartz make me very suspicious of a Tri-State origin. I've had virtually identical specimens from Shangbao and was reluctant to include the specimen because of my respect for the poster---a very educated individual. He might be able to shed light as to when the specimen was added to his collection---if pre-2000 then Shangbao could likely be ruled out.

Kevin chimed in agreement and I certainly respect his Tri-State expertise as well as yours.
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Kelly Nash August 20, 2018 02:12AM
Well, I know that Kevin is way beyond me in his knowledge of Missouri minerals.
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Alfredo Petrov August 20, 2018 02:12AM
Keith wrote: "Should be able to check the base of the specimen - but that now depends on who now holds the specimen."

I have a bit of an off-topic comment to make here, but I wish every mineral photo on Mindat would include a daughter photo of the matrix or base. That would often make it much easier to tell whether the provenance is correct. (And I'm a hypocrite because, no, I haven't done this either.)
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Kevin Conroy August 20, 2018 03:01AM
Quartz was relatively uncommon in the Tri-State District. In my opinion the mines near Baxter Springs, Kansas produced the best specimens, especially the Swalley Mine and Ballard Mine. The quartz was always on chert matrix. It formed as a druse coating, sometimes with sphalerite, galena, chalcopyrite, marcasite and/or selenite. I hadn't even thought about it until this post, but I don't recall ever seeing a Tri-State dolomite/quartz combo specimen! This doesn't mean they don't exist, just that I'm unfamiliar with any.
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Paul Brandes August 20, 2018 03:14AM
Alfredo Petrov Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a bit of an off-topic comment to make here,
> but I wish every mineral photo on Mindat would
> include a daughter photo of the matrix or base.
> That would often make it much easier to tell
> whether the provenance is correct. (And I'm a
> hypocrite because, no, I haven't done this
> either.)

Preach on, brother! :-)
And yes, I'm guilty of not doing this either...
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Keith Compton August 20, 2018 04:43AM
There is another photo of Dolomite with Quartz from Tri-State that also shows a little chert/dolostone like matrix
https://www.mindat.org/photo-441281.html
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Kevin Conroy August 20, 2018 01:29PM
Keith, unfortunately the dolomite with quartz is another specimen that's not from the Tri-State District. This one is from Williamsville Quarry in Butler County, Missouri. Please see this calcite specimen. The druse quartz from here has more of a brown hue, whereas the quartz from the Tri-State District is either blackish to gray, or white.
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John Betts August 22, 2018 02:25AM
Keith Compton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd be very surprised if John got this so wrong
> with (4564) - given that he says it is from his
> personal collection. Shoudl be able to check the
> base of the specimen - but that now depends on who
> now holds the specimen.


It was acquired from Robert Bates, who who had access and collected extensively at the Mid-Continent Mine, then used that material to trade with others worldwide. But it is possible that labels got switched...
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Dana Slaughter August 22, 2018 03:05AM
I just noticed that I referenced the same specimen twice in my original posting---oops. I can't seem to find the other calcite that I intended to point out. In any case, these are also not Tri-State specimens. I firmly believe that my original posting entries should all be removed from the Tri-State district along with the following.

https://www.mindat.org/photo-157530.html

https://www.mindat.org/photo-694235.html

https://www.mindat.org/photo-769899.html

I'm very confident that the Betts dolomite is Chinese and almost certainly from the Shangbao mine---at the very least it should be removed from the district. No action has been taken on these photos so I thought to refresh.
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Kevin Conroy August 22, 2018 12:21PM
I agree that these three aren't from the Tri-State District. The first could be from a number of places, the other two are from the southern end of the Viburnum Trend (most likely from either Sweetwater or Fletcher Mine).
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Dana Slaughter September 02, 2018 03:24PM
Has anything been done on these photos? Just wanted to refresh so that these can be removed from the Tri-State locality page.
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Dana Slaughter September 10, 2018 04:36AM
It has been a while and I've noticed that these photos wrongly remain on the Tri-State district pages---can anyone fix?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2018 02:35AM by Dana Slaughter.
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Kevin Conroy October 11, 2018 05:13PM
I just saw another specimen that fits this category: https://www.mindat.org/photo-61665.html

The white rhombic dolomite crystals are the indicator that this is from the Viburnum Trend in Missouri.
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Dana Slaughter October 17, 2018 02:33PM
Agree completely---signature Trend dolomite.
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