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GeneralQuestions about managing one's photos

7th Nov 2007 16:44 UTCJesse Fisher Expert

Hello Jolyon,

Two questions about the new photo system:

Formerly there was a "delete photo" option when editing one's photo gallery, but I can no linger find this. I realized there are several specimens in my gallery that I no longer own and would like to remove them. How does one now delete photos?

I like the "child photo" option and would like to use this in a few cases to add images of historical labels that accompany the specimens. Under "photo type" I do not see labels as an option. What would be the best way to do this?

Cheers,

Jesse

7th Nov 2007 17:03 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Jesse, there is no requirement that you have to own a specimen to have it in your gallery. You took the photo, you own the photo rights, not necessarily the specimen. If a photo documents a mineral with interesting characterstics, or from an interesting locality, or is just simply beautiful, I'd encourage you to leave it here so other collectors can continue to benefit from it. (I'll let someone else answer the technical aspects of your question.)

Cheers,

Alfredo

7th Nov 2007 17:44 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Right now there is no category for labels. That needs to be added to the menu list (along with several others - SEM, etc.)

Right now the delete option for photos isn't available. You don't need to remove specimens that you no longer own (most of the dealers that post on the site would be extremely busy deleting photos.)

7th Nov 2007 18:56 UTCJesse Fisher Expert

I realize that there is no need to delete photos of specimens that one no longer ownes. However, some are rather old and date from a point when I was much lower on the photographic learning curve. I would like to remove these in favor of ones that are up to current standards. In one case in particular, the current owner wants to post a photo in his own gallery and I've told him that I would remove mine.

7th Nov 2007 19:14 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Well, if they are photos of the same specimen, you don't have to delete the records, but you can replace photos in the edit page by uploading a new photograph (saves ther trouble of having to input all the same information again.)

7th Nov 2007 19:58 UTCKnut Eldjarn 🌟 Manager

Jesse,

I understand that the management team want to keep your photos, but I think they should inform you that by complete replacement you can de facto delete any photo. Replace the old photo with a photo of a totally new specimen or mineral, edit all data - including the mineral name if necessary - and the old photo is deleted.

7th Nov 2007 22:44 UTCJesse Fisher Expert

Yes, I noticed there is the ability to over-write old entries, which is likely a roundabout way of deleting them, but as owner of the photos (if not the specimens) shouldn't I have the option to remove as well as post them to the website?

8th Nov 2007 04:28 UTCDebbie Woolf Manager

A valid point Jesse !

8th Nov 2007 15:28 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

You should, there are technical problems which I haven't resolved yet.

In the meantime if anything urgently needs deleting one of the managers or myself can remove it manually.

Jolyon

8th Nov 2007 15:51 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Before the current upgrade, the only way you could get a better photo of a sample was to delete the old one and reenter a new record. With the ability to replace a photograph, it makes this process much easier for the user. Jolyon has also tried to keep links into the site constant to keep the problem of broken links to a minimum (it can be a real pain to other webmasters when someone decides that there is a better way of arranging a site). With the ability to include links to photos in articles and blogs and personal favorites, it can become time consuming for those authors to keep links active if people start deleting photos.

8th Nov 2007 16:12 UTCJesse Fisher Expert

David, Jolyon,

T'is not my intention to make life difficult, as I am aware how difficult it can be managing a site like Mindat already. If I replace some old images with newer ones from the same locality, I assume that the photo file number will not change. If this is the case, any links to the original photo will still link to something appropriate.

8th Nov 2007 16:22 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

That's right and it should be easier to edit a record as compared to deleting and adding a new record.

8th Nov 2007 17:20 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Although it's not a hard rule, you should in general only replace an existing photo with a new one of the same specimen. That way you can be sure that any links to it remain valid.

For example, on Dominik's article showing Rhodochrosite habits, if you replaced a Rhodochrosite with a different sample from the same locality, the habit may then be wrong for the article.

In general, we probably don't want to make it easy to change or delete photos that have been used in articles (even by other people), or as photo of the day, etc. That doesn't mean we won't allow them to be removed, but it will require thought before it can be changed.

Updating a photo to a better one of the same specimen is usually ok in almost all circumstances.

Jolyon

8th Nov 2007 18:17 UTCJesse Fisher Expert

Jolyon,

To be a little contrary, however, these are my photos, and I am letting Mindat use them relatively free of any considerations except that they do not be reproduced for other uses without my prior permission. If I do not have the option to remove these photos at some future date, regardless of the reason, then this is a fairly substantial disincentive for me to post them in the first place. By refusing to let the owner of a photo remove it, you are essentially asking for a non-exclusive transfer of copyright.

8th Nov 2007 20:41 UTCKnut Eldjarn 🌟 Manager

I agree with Jesse and have a creeping feeling that the new "rules" as stated by Jolyon could result in serious conflicts about copyrights in the future. I also remember from my childhood that changing the rules of the game when playing could create a lot of conflicts. If Jolyon wants to "change the rules" concerning the right to delete/withdraw pictures contributed to mindat (i.e. by making it more difficult or subject to a managment review), it should be stated clearly in advance and such rules of course cannot apply to images uploaded previously based on the previous conditions that could be considered as a contract between mindat and the contributors.

I fully understand and support the great work done by Jolyon and contributors on all levels and really appreciate the wealth of informations and pictures available in mindat. But I also accept that there could be legitimate reasons for a contributor wanting to delete some of the best pictures i.e. because they shall be used in another copyrighted publication - or the specimen may be sold under the condition that the purchaser also acquires whatever copyrights to pictures of the specimens the previous owner may possess.

8th Nov 2007 20:47 UTCAnonymous User

Hi Jesse,

I understand your point and also your frustration in this circumstance but I personally would be saddened to see any of your pictures deleted from the data base as they are of the highest quality and therefore great reference tools.

Craig.

8th Nov 2007 22:01 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

One thing, what you see now as the program is probably only 70-80% done. Nobody can delete photos right now (without deleting them directly in the database - which I really don't like to do as it is dangerous and you can mess up big time) and I got 10-15 photos that are duplicates that right now I have to keep in my favorites to keep track of that I dearly would like to fix. We should really put in place a way to keep track of where the photos are being used so that if things are deleted, you aren't required to wander back to your work to see if there are broken links. We have also had people who have deleted photos and then decided that they really didn't want to do that (and spent several months reloading photos).

People were upset that they had to delete pictures to upgrade a photo.

2nd Oct 2020 13:49 UTCPeter Mikuš

And when I get a warning that the photo is not high quality and I need to upload a higher quality one? I uploaded a higher quality photo and I have no one to approve

2nd Oct 2020 17:48 UTCJeroen Goedhart

Hi i have noticed that it is quite difficult to find a way to get a photo published once it is put on 'private only'. I have two pictures that seem to be perfectly ok, including confirmed identification and proper quality and location info, but once set on private only (by mistake?) they possibly are i guess not visible in the workstream of the management. I hesitate to make a duplicate, but how to proceed? I did get a nice warning on one with little location input, but that is not relevant for these two...suggestions?

e.g.

Shattuckite (or Plancheite) (Raman), Malachite with Brochantite traces.

Birkengang zinc smelter

2nd Oct 2020 18:01 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Jeroen, It's certainly an interesting specimen, but the problem is that you aren't sure whether it's shattuckite or plancheite, but the title nevertheless says shattuckite, and shattuckite is not yet listed as one of the species for that locality. So first one needs to add stattuckite to the locality's species list, with a reference stating how it was identified (stating method used, analyst's name, results, if possible), then check your specimen again and edit the photo. Then I think someone would approve the photo for public view without hesitation.

2nd Oct 2020 21:09 UTCJeroen Goedhart

aha, very good procedure...it was EDS tested via dipl. ing. G. Frenz, with 2 measurements, with results pointing to Shattuckite but the Raman gave too much fluoresence to support in fully ruling out Plancheite...
i guess the report as such is not 100% conclusive ...and i do not have the knowledge to calculate the uncertainty factor to say if it is good enough...

the Malachite with traces of brochantite is well confirmed;

O 51.15%, Cu 37.97%, Zn 8.33%, Al 1.67%, S 0.60%,Si0.28%EDX2:O55.07%,Cu35.08%,S4.59%,Zn3.87%,Al0.89%,Si0.50%

so what i will do is keep the malachite etc. and remove the Shattuckite from the title and only mention it in the text... how to submit it again? or do you see the updates?

the other one, Mimetesite,

1094725

is confirmed via Günter Blass, who is the origin of the specimen and main author on the location. But the label could always be wrong...

2nd Oct 2020 19:33 UTCBill Dameron 🌟 Expert

I agree we should be allowed to delete our own photos in some circumstances. Like Jesse, some of my older photos are certainly not up to today's standards. I am not a dealer, so I can reshoot some of the pieces I still have, but some are now "deaccessed" as we get new specimens. I hope this becomes possible at some point.

2nd Oct 2020 23:07 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

As Jolyon has said, publishing photos on Mindat is a bit like getting your photos published in a book or journal, it’s it bit troublesome to take them out later. But we still can if we have good enough reason.

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