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UM1986-10-CO:ClHMgMnZn (also called Mineral F, Dunn, 1995) : Mg5(Zn,Mn)3(CO3)2(OH,Cl)12·H2O, Chlorophoenicite : (Mn,Mg)3Zn2(AsO4)(OH,O)6, Willemite : Zn2SiO4

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minID: 04U-GY1

UM1986-10-CO:ClHMgMnZn (also called Mineral F, Dunn, 1995) : Mg5(Zn,Mn)3(CO3)2(OH,Cl)12·H2O, Chlorophoenicite : (Mn,Mg)3Zn2(AsO4)(OH,O)6, Willemite : Zn2SiO4

This image has been released to the public domain and may be used freely.
Field of View: 6.0 mm
Largest Crystal Size: 1.7 mm

The frothy little spheres reach 1.7 mm in diameter. (Bigger ones occur.) The fibrous "brooms" are chlorophoenicite; the tiny glassy needles are willemite. The bladed crystals are heavily twinned fluoborite (per XRD on another specimen by Dr. Travis Olds - thanks!)

Found on the Sterling Hill Mine Run Dump 1993.

Update Jan 2023 regarding the status of “Mineral F”: Despite heroic work by Dr. Travis Olds, it is very unlikely that this will become an IMA approved mineral anytime soon. While Travis was able to get a “very clean PXRD spectrum that does not match anything in the 2022 ICDS”, the tiny crystals are apparently not suitable for structure determination. In essence, Mineral F “is hopeless without a synthetic analogue with a known structure to compare with”. This does not mean that “Mineral F” isn’t a “mineral”. We just can’t prove that it is per IMA requirements.

Initial post Feb 2012: Thanks to Jeff Weissman and Tony Nikischer, this has now been ID as "Mineral F" of Dunn (see the talk page).

March 2014: Additional "proof" comes from EDS - see the new child "photo". (The chlorophoenicite was also confirmed on another specimen.)

It does effervesce vigorously in HCl and dissolves completely.

It was found in lean franklinite/willemite ore with lots of tiny solution vugs. Associated minerals in the vugs are tiny colorless willemite prisms, fibrous to acicular chlorophoenicite and fluoborite, water clear fluorite, sparse pyrochroite and – sometimes – ridiculously tiny but very sharply formed bi-pyramids of hetaerolite (EDS verified on another specimen). Plus a couple of other UKs.



This photo has been shown 860 times
Photo added:1st Feb 2012
Dimensions:1024x732px (0.75 megapixels)

Data Identifiers

Mindat Photo ID:442449 📋 (quote this with any query about this photo)
Long-form Identifier:mindat:1:4:442449:6 📋
GUID:e1cf5918-1870-48e0-bae8-e534f2e23d77 📋
Specimen MinID04U-GY1 (note: this is not unique to this photo, it is unique to the specimen)

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Discuss this Photo

PhotosUnid carbonate from Sterling Hill

1st Feb 2012 20:59 UTCModris Baum 🌟 Expert

During the mid 1990s or so there were rumors of a “new” Zn carbonate at SH. The rumors also had it that the stuff looked something like what’s in the photo (click on the thread title at top).


It IS a carbonate – it dissolves completely with effervescence in HCl.


I don’t think it’s dypingite, which is, in any case, a Mg carbonate and was identified in 1979. If I remember correctly, dypingite forms “tracks”, is fluorescent and has a radial structure. This stuff doesn’t do any of that.


Anyone know what happened with the supposedly “new” Zn carbonate – or what this stuff might be?


Thanks - Modris

1st Feb 2012 21:32 UTCGary Moldovany

Nice photo. Vaguely reminds me of a zeolite mineral. When you say "new", do you mean a new mineral for the species list or a totally new mineral? Gary

1st Feb 2012 21:39 UTCModris Baum 🌟 Expert

Gary,


I think they were saying new to SH. But I'm not sure - I wasn't "in the loop".


Anyway - can't be a zeolite. Fizzed away completely in HCl. Maybe it's just weird calcite ...


Modris

1st Feb 2012 22:03 UTCTony Nikischer 🌟 Manager

It is, indeed, Dunn's "Mineral F". As he explained it to me long ago, he had the mineral described and characterized, and had submitted to the IMA for approval. However, he had some second thoughts about the complete characterization and decided to withdraw it. It would likely have been approved back then, as full structural work was not demanded at the time.


Several years later, John Cianciulli (then curator at the Franklin Mineral Museum) and I worked on the material from an optical and chemical standpoint, and we offered material to John Rakovan for description and eventual IMA submission. However, John was unable to carry it all the way through due to the minute size of the crystals we had. Today, it remains an unnamed phase, awaiting some researcher who is willing and able to tackle it anew.

1st Feb 2012 22:14 UTCModris Baum 🌟 Expert

Hi Tony,


Most fascinating!


Well - if anybody wants to work on it I probably have about 10 samples.


In the mean time, it seems that Mindat already has an entry for UM1986-10-CO:ClHMgMnZn which appears to be the same as "Mineral F" (same formula), so I'll try to post it under that.


Guys - that was really fast and amazing!


Thanks - Modris

1st Feb 2012 22:14 UTCModris Baum 🌟 Expert

Hi Jeff,


Well - it sure sounds like it!


I didn't realize it was in Dunn's monograph - or that he described it it as early as 1986. But that's probably about the right amount of time for the "rumor" to reach me.


Anyway - I do think you have probably nailed it again!


OOPS - I hit the send on my reply to Tony before I hit the send on this. Didn't mean to ignore you Jeff!

2nd Feb 2012 00:09 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Modris, you have hit the proverbial point of frustration. Until someone picks up the ID challenge it will remain this way. I think if you collect some of the more prolific mineral deposits (like Franklin,NJ and MSH) you will end up with a sub-collection of unknowns hoping for someone to illumin us further in their identidty.

Steve.

2nd Feb 2012 01:27 UTCModris Baum 🌟 Expert

Steve,


Have you been in my garage??? How did you know about those boxes I keep there!


Modris
 
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