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Tourmaline : AD3G6 (T6O18)(BO3)3X3Z

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Summary of all keyboard shortcuts

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Copyright © James Zigras
 
 
 
 
minID: DQ4-DCQ

Tourmaline : AD3G6 (T6O18)(BO3)3X3Z

Copyright © James Zigras  - This image is copyrighted. Unauthorized reproduction prohibited.

Tourmalines from the Gillette Quarry. They are resting on the top of a white flat lid that is about 27cm across which makes the longest tourmaline ~18cm long.

This photo has been shown 1663 times
Photo added:8th Jun 2012
Dimensions:3264x1840px (6.01 megapixels)

Data Identifiers

Mindat Photo ID:469793 📋 (quote this with any query about this photo)
Long-form Identifier:mindat:1:4:469793:7 📋
GUID:eaa24cd3-6889-439c-a39c-06a5beb2ee45 📋
Specimen MinIDDQ4-DCQ (note: this is not unique to this photo, it is unique to the specimen)

Discuss this Photo

PhotosProblem with classing this photo

24th Feb 2024 15:12 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

There are two issues with this otherwise nice photo of crystals. First, they are elbaite, so the mineral identification in the title could be changed. But more importantly, this is a group of crystals all under one minID. I know that six of these have been recently added to the collection of a major mineral museum and so will likely soon be individually photographed and eventually end up on mindat and thus will all need separate minIDs. To remedy this situation, I suggest this pic be reclassified as photo category "other" and type of photo "cabinet or display" thus dispensing with the minID. Thanks!

24th Feb 2024 15:42 UTCEd Clopton 🌟 Expert

Sounds like a good solution.

I was once taken to task when, as editor of our club's newsletter in Maine, I was in the habit of automatically referring to colored tourmaline found in Maine as elbaite.  I think elbaite is a safe assumption, but apparently some specimens I captioned as elbaite contain small but significant amounts of foitite and perhaps other obscure tourmaline-group species as well, and I was advised to call it just "tourmaline" unless its species had been established by analysis.  Personally I don't have a problem with calling this impressive array of specimens elbaite if it's reasonable to assume that's what they are based on knowledge of the locality, but I'm now sensitive to the issue.

24th Feb 2024 17:30 UTCRobert Nowakowski

I do not think "other" is a good category because it will never be found in a search for tourmaline.
Bob

24th Feb 2024 16:09 UTCWayne Corwin

Harold
How about a category  "Wow/Very Very Cool" ?

24th Feb 2024 18:01 UTCDonald C. Swenson

Drool,  drool,  drool!

24th Feb 2024 18:11 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

The problem with uploading it as an "Other" photo is that it then disappears into Mindat purgatory and hardly anyone will ever see it, which is a pity for a "wow", "cool" and "drool"-type photo.

The minID problem is similar to that faced by samples of rare species that get broken up to sell as smaller fragments. This problem was discussed a long time ago, back when Jolyon first came up with the minID concept. Perhaps someone else remembers what solution was proposed then - I confess that I've forgotten.

Perhaps for a group photo like this we just need an option to upload mineral photos without a minID?

24th Feb 2024 21:51 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

The MinID issue is an interesting one. Its not uncommon to have a large specimen trimmed or broken into smaller specimens, and sometimes the reverse - at times you can reassemble crystals from a broken pocket back into a larger specimen. Whats happens to the MinIDs?

24th Feb 2024 22:26 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

Ralph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager  ✉️

MinID issue
To me the MinID is, in it's essence, simply a catalog number.  Each collector can assign their own catalog number to an entire specimen, with the previous catalog numbers still being valid to the previous owner(s).  If the specimen is broken into pieces, or reassembled into a larger specimen, new catalog number(s) could/should be assigned to note the change in the specimen or ownership.  The same could also apply to the MinID.

Also, to see more about MinIDs:

24th Feb 2024 18:40 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

A problem, I think, with uploading it as 'elbaite' further enhances the myth that all green tourmaline is elbaite, and that tourmalines are homogeneously a single species. I would upload this as 'tourmaline'.

24th Feb 2024 20:09 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

I agree, Steve. It is never "wrong" to label tourmalines as Tourmaline. Given how incredibly complex tourmaline chemistry has become, there is likely more than one species present there anyway.

24th Feb 2024 20:27 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

The recent Gem Pegmatites book from the Canadian Mineral Society gives numerous examples of this.

24th Feb 2024 22:06 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

I would be very wary about calling it all elbaite. Recently I analysed a number of tourmalines from King Island, generally called "elbaite". The analyses were dominantly fluor-elbaite and fluor-schorl, but also represent several different species, including elbaite, darrellhenryite, olenite, foitite, schorl and dravite.  

28th Feb 2024 14:24 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

I would upload this as 'tourmaline'.
 Fully agree. Many "elbaites" are in fact fluor-elbaites (see also Ralph's posting).

24th Feb 2024 23:08 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

I don't want this picture to disappear, but clearly if a minID is to have any relevance, it should not apply to a collection such as this. So if nothing changes just be aware that 6 individual ones seen here will eventually have their own minIDs via separate photos. I think the solution is to not have "other" photos be hidden.

These crystals have been called elbaite for over 125 years, there was likely analyses done at some point, not going to chase it down now.  But tourmalines they certainly are, I am not too concerned about that right now.

25th Feb 2024 03:08 UTCJeff Weissman Expert

This seems to be a special case in that the fate of some of the crystals in this image is known. What is not known if and when the individual specimens will get their own MinID. I suggest do nothing to the MinID, keep it as is, and clearly state in the image caption the issue (each crystal may eventually have its own MinID), and indicate what is known about each crystal's fate, and dated when the comment was added.

25th Feb 2024 15:20 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

Except that only the original poster, or a manager, can do that. Mindat created the photo classes that it should be under now (see above), but such pix end up "disappearing". Why not add "Other" to the list of locality photo types (next to "All", "Specimen" and "Locality")?
 
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