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Fakes & FraudsSmelt Quartz?
18th Nov 2009 18:43 UTCKristi Hugs
Can anyone tell me about this?
Thanks,
Kristi
18th Nov 2009 18:47 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager
18th Nov 2009 19:55 UTCJan Styer-Gold
This material (colored glass) has been around for a few years. It is most commonly advertised as "Cherry Quartz." Occasionally it's called "Strawberry Quartz." It may be seen as beads, spheres, cabochons, and cut into shapes resembling quartz crystals, like the one you have listed above. The source is usually China. Need I say more? ;)
Jan
18th Nov 2009 20:16 UTCRick Dalrymple Expert
18th Nov 2009 20:29 UTCAllen Steinburg
Al
18th Nov 2009 20:30 UTCAllen Steinburg
Allen,
I have learned to use and cherish the edit button at the bottom of these fields. It has allowed me to clean up after myself many times.
Rock
18th Nov 2009 20:59 UTCDonald Slater
18th Nov 2009 21:30 UTCJan Styer-Gold
"RARE NATURE CHERRY Red QUARTZ CRYSTAL 60 mm"
Misspelling the word "NATURE" covers their backs/butts. I wonder how many people have taken that word to mean "Natural?" What a shame!
Jan
18th Nov 2009 21:58 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert
Now that's funny.
Or 'smelt' refers to 'melting' as in 'to smelt an ore.' In this case I believe the term refers to the melting of glass (and probably not quartz) followed by the addition of some coloring agent.
Whether from melting or from fish, these 'smelt quartz' are pretty but definitely not natural.
19th Nov 2009 02:22 UTCAllen Steinburg
Here I had though I was getting pretty good at remembering to do that. I guess it`s not only my hair I`m loosing :)
Al
19th Nov 2009 09:24 UTCRock Currier Expert
Welcome to the club
5th Dec 2009 03:28 UTCJake Harper Expert
11th May 2011 02:09 UTCZeePea
"Smelting is a heat treatment for separating metals from their ores. The ore, often with other ingredients, is heated in a furnace to remove non-metallic constituents. The metal produced is later purified."
In the smelted quartz, it is my understanding that when adding raw materials such as manganese (Mn) the result will be violet crystal, adding cobalt (Co) will be blue crystal, add chromium (Cr) for green crystal, adding selenium (Se) for the red crystal, add the liquid gold for the gold ruby color crystal, add doped (Er) compared with rose-colored crystal, adding cerium (Ce) yellow crystal, add neodymium (Nd) for light purple crystals. Quartz is in such abundance in China and labor so cheap that they can afford to melt down the crystal, remove all the impurities and add color as they see fit. I mostly find clear crystal infused with red since the Chinese believe that red is a color for prosperity.
I practice Feng Shui and bought myself one of these "smelt quartz" with red infused in it, bubbles and all! The bubbles are from the air trapped in the crystal when it hardened. It brought me a lot of pleasure without breaking the bank.
12th May 2011 14:24 UTCRock Currier Expert
If your "red quartz" has bubbles in it, it is more likely man made glass and not quartz.
12th May 2011 15:27 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager
21st May 2011 05:34 UTCJamey Swisher
25th May 2011 21:21 UTCAnonymous User
25th May 2011 21:37 UTCAnonymous User
15th Jun 2011 01:50 UTCTina Oken
16th Jul 2011 05:55 UTCRay Hill Expert
1st Sep 2011 14:59 UTCscott taylor
15th May 2012 04:05 UTCKiana
Also, any spiritual people out there who might know what the event might signify??
thanks!
Kiana
*sad girl in Montreal, Canada*
15th May 2012 05:42 UTCJames Christopher
15th May 2012 08:20 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager
The good news is that quartz crystals of 5cm length like yours are very common, so you shouldn't have any trouble at all replacing it inexpensively if you visit a mineral show/gemboree. Better yet, join your local mineral club and they might be able to point you to a field trip you could join to go dig up a virgin quartz crystal from the ground yourself, which is quite a lot more fun than buying them, and saves you from all sorts of scams by "spiritual" business folk who will overcharge you shamelessly for a crystal with alleged extra supernatural powers that no instrument can detect.
15th May 2012 08:43 UTCRock Currier Expert
21st May 2012 21:28 UTCKristi Hugs
I sent you an email that may comfort you a bit :) I hope it gets through any spam filters you have. It will be coming from missmirabai@mooncavecrystals.com
30th Jun 2012 22:22 UTCCheryl Hurst
1st Jul 2012 12:46 UTCFred E. Davis
1st Jul 2012 20:13 UTCBart Cannon
2nd Jul 2012 05:19 UTCRock Currier Expert
16th Jul 2012 01:07 UTCMicah
Now I pose an innocent question inspired by jamie swishers statement.
What is the diference between quartz and the silicone glass? is the distinction valid? What is the diference between quartz and glass. DISTINCTIONS OTHER than the fact
that the quartz grows and glass or silicone glass is "smelted"?
I will share some information I have uncovered thanks to google chrome.
I looked up Silicone glass and found it is used for movies when they need actors or stuntmen to go through glass. I found this most worth noting because I am a filmaker myself But i found that most glass contains silicone BECAUSE:
The silicate minerals make up the largest and most important class of rock-forming minerals, constituting approximately 90 percent of the crust of the Earth. They are classified based on the structure of their silicate group. Silicate minerals all contain silicon and oxygen.
Now what is glass made out of? Most glass is made with silicates, Silicates include Quartz. so in my thinking the difference that they are melted or not as a prime factor in the validity of the aforementioned smelted quartz. As I see it that is an honest description of what it is. Though if you can clarify of correct please do. Im not a geologist or chemist.
16th Jul 2012 01:22 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager
16th Jul 2012 03:14 UTCBart Cannon
Standard window glass is also known as a soda glass. It contains sodium, calcium and aluminum which makes it easier to melt than pure quartz.
Quartz glass is a very specialized material, and difficult to work with. It has a very high melting point.
Bart
16th Jul 2012 11:05 UTCRock Currier Expert
I think you need to learn a little about chemistry. Did you ever grow salt or sugar crystals on a string in school? Quartz, as a mineral are the elements silicon and oxygen that have been dissolved in a solution of some sort and have precipitated out of solution into a crystalline lattice. If there is open space in the ground when the crystals grow, like in cracks in sandstone or ancient gas bubbles in basalt they form quartz crystals that collectors cherish. I don't think there is any official definition of what smelt quartz is, so I guess you can use the term how ever you want, but it usually refers to a man made melt of some kind that often contains silica or silicon dioxide, but when it cools it does not have time to arrange itself into a crystalline lattice like quartz crystals and does not have the same physical properties as quartz. The name was originated like thousands of similar terms to trade on a "higher value" name in order to dupe people into thinking the stuff is something other than the real thing. Originally the term crystal referred to quartz crystals. Quartz crystals in antiquity were the standard against which transparency of solid things was measured. Originally the makers of glass could not match the transparency of natural crystal, but as they got better and their goods more transparent and clear they started calling their stuff crystal to trade on a "higher value" name. Eventually all the glass makers called their transparent glass crystal and today when you use the word crystal, most people think of glass. They completely stole the name.
I was under the impression that "movie glass" that stunt men crashed through was made by melting sugar into flat transparent sheets or molding it into bottles.
http://www.ehow.com/how_6706469_make-movie-glass.html
16th Jul 2012 13:37 UTCBart Cannon
My house has 100 year old window glass in places. It shows ripples and other defects. I consider those panes valuable antiques. But then I consider many useless things valuable. I'm crazy. Are there any completely rational Mindaters ?
In modern times, window glass is made by pouring soda glass melt onto molten tin. A very flat surface results. It is called "float glass".
I love the technology involved in the simple things we take for granted.
Bart
16th Jul 2012 13:58 UTCRock Currier Expert
16th Jul 2012 14:49 UTCUwe Ludwig
During my business live I travelled frequently to China. In Hongkong I saw at a temple gardens sculptures of dragons with glass like bowls as eyes and some of them had such a bowl also on the tongue. The bowls consists of a colourless, transparent material with some small bubbles inside. The bowls look like cheap paperweights. So far so good, however, beside the sculpture was a table made of bronze with the name of the donor of the “Dragon Eyes”. The worth of such a bronze table would be the manyfold of a glass paperweight. Therefore I assumed that the “Dragon eyes” are not made of simple glass.
My Chinese colleagues meant that these Dragon Eyes are made of a natural, very rare material but they had no more information about that.
Has anybody of you more information about that ?
Uwe Ludwig
16th Jul 2012 14:58 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
Sounds like glass to me.
16th Jul 2012 15:23 UTCAlex Homenuke Expert
Very old widows are thicker at the bottom than the top due to extremely slow creep.
16th Jul 2012 16:43 UTCUwe Ludwig
Uwe Ludwig
16th Jul 2012 16:58 UTCSpencer Ivan Mather
16th Jul 2012 19:31 UTCRudy Bolona Expert
16th Jul 2012 23:29 UTCEvan Johnson
17th Jul 2012 02:30 UTCBart Cannon
I was planning to make that point.
My 60 year old windows show no ripples or other distortions. Perfect from top to bottom.
Colored "art glass" and some "stained" glass are designed to show ripples. The pigments are a horror story of toxic metals.
I have some interesting books about what is termed "pressed glass".
It is an old technique, but is still used today to simulate ornate crystal, though it fools no one..
A carefully formed mold is filled with molten soda glass, sometimes pigmented and then a plunger is driven into the mold.
The shapes produced are very beautiful and can be incredibly intricate. Moslty for goblets and such.
My favorite is "Sandwich Glass" by Ruth Webb Lee. All about the Boston and Sandwich Glass Company of Sandwich Village near Boston..
Don't know if the name Sandwich Glass relates to the food item, but the process is surely sandwich like.
If anyone has any broken fragments of early Roman Glass to donate to me, I would love to get some X-Ray spectra from them.
Bart
17th Jul 2012 03:40 UTCStephen Rose Expert
Make sure that the proper provenance is provided before you accept them!:-D
Cheers!
Steve
17th Jul 2012 05:07 UTCAlex Homenuke Expert
17th Jul 2012 06:53 UTCBart Cannon
Art and antiquities authentication was one of the directions I once favored as a direction for my business. It's part of the reason I have a huge library. Thinking I needed to know something about everything, and that book space was more important than living space.
It turns out that it is a starvation business practice. People come to you to confirm their treasures AFTER they buy them so my job became giving them the bad news.
I still like books more than Google.
Bart
18th Jul 2012 11:13 UTCAnonymous User
18th Jul 2012 14:01 UTCRock Currier Expert
18th Jul 2012 14:29 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager
'
18th Jul 2012 20:41 UTCRock Currier Expert
19th Jul 2012 01:26 UTCAnonymous User
20th Jul 2012 01:46 UTCOwen Lewis
-------------------------------------------------------
> To answer an earlier comment, the ripples and so
> on are not caused by the fluidity of glass. This
> has been pretty extensively disproven. Think of
> precision telescope mirrors and the tolerances to
> which they are ground, and what effect the
> distortion would have over time. Rather, the
> thicker bottom is related to the method of
> production. Instead of the aforementioned float
> process on Sn, glass had to be blown or treated
> similarly to form windows. I think there's an
> article about it on Wikipedia somewhere.
It may depend on the composition (and age?) of the glass.
In the UK, I have seen large Carolean glass window panes in their original frames and where, over the course of 350 years, the glass had 'flowed' so that when, viewed from outside at a suitable angle, it seems to hang, almost like cloth, in swags.There is no way that effect could have been created in manufacture (IMHO).
20th Jul 2012 10:10 UTCEvan Johnson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass#Behavior_of_antique_glass
One can follow the references and agree, or not. Of course, I can't speak to what you observed, and I guess it's conceivably possible that a MUCH lower-melting glass was used, and was therefore fluid over long time scales. However, I still suspect it is a manufacturing issue.
Regards,
EMJ
20th Jul 2012 14:54 UTCOwen Lewis
Glass behaves differently under tension and compression. Also, some behaviour varies non-linearly with the thickness of a sample. Under tension, glass exhibits a tensile strength similar to that of steel. Under compression, glass demonstrates the property of elasticity and has a substantial coefficient of restitution (commonly observed by dropping a ball onto a slab of the same composition). It's commonly assumed that, when the elasticity of a piece of glass is exceeded, it must instantly shatter and that, there can be no condition of permanent deformation (at NTP) as easily observed in many solids. But can there be permanent, if slight, distortion set up un glass where:
- The area of the distorted glass sheet is a very large area relative to the size of the permanent distortion.
- The pressure over area is sufficiently high and maintained uniformly over a very extended period.
- During a very extended period, the glass is not held at a constant temperature but heated and cooled in 24 hr cycles unequally on both sides of the sheet, with temperatures varying between absolute maxima and minima of -20 to +35 deg C and with temperature shift within any one 24 hour cycle being limited to no more than 30 deg C.
That under such circumstances a small amount permanent distortion might occur does seem as likely as the *assumption* that 'swagging' in some large antique glass sheets must be caused in the manufacturing process and not developed subsequently 'in situ'. That some permanent shape distortion can develop in almost all solids is generally well known. The point of interest is the extent to which it could be shown to exist in antique window glass within the environmental parameters loosely set out here.
22nd Jul 2012 18:59 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager
22nd Jul 2012 23:04 UTCOwen Lewis
Whatever, it seems to be very unlikely that a 'swagging' effect could be caused in manufacture - it only because is would be quite common if it was. I don't think it is common; I have seen it only a couple of times in my life and on both occasions in uncommonly large and very old panes of window glass. These in themselves are quite a rarity I think.
7th Sep 2012 20:09 UTCLauri
9th Sep 2012 02:39 UTCAnonymous User
18th Jan 2013 02:24 UTCRick C.
12th May 2013 18:26 UTCAsh
Pfft..
17th Sep 2013 23:19 UTCZachi
3rd Apr 2015 03:03 UTCYohoho and a bucket of Yo
This sort of glass is made generally from recycled glass and or sand with pigments and fluxes, sometimes with a certain proportion of lead oxide .
Every decade or so, low quality stones and forgotten glass products are rebranded for commercial purposes, since there is a demand for "magical" stones. Whata world of retarded sheep and crooks who prey on them.
3rd Apr 2015 03:17 UTCYohoho and a bucket of Yo
Their "smelt glass is the slag glass type (opaque) , but I just saw some other types of "smelt quartz" and I ama extremely surprised the chinese use a commercial name that covers types of glass that are so different in aspect; ranging from milky and opaque to translucid and almost transparent.
The opaline/slag type ones are often shaped as rounded massage items and paperweights while the clearer ones are shaped into "wands" and faceted to lure the clients into thinking it is a natural crystal product.
All in all , it's probably an all around commercial name for chinese recycled glass of various types.
10th Nov 2016 03:13 UTCAl
18th Aug 2017 14:24 UTCKevin Maurer
Smelt quartz is a term most commonly used for melting quartz. as would be expected, it basically becomes glass.
The other part of this, is resin... think decorative counter tops. not the really cool radioactive granite, but the other stuff that looks like it was cut from a slab of quartz rock.
there are currently two types.
One is Breton, which contains 10% resin, just enough to glue it together before it is heated and melted together.
The other is Keda, which uses more resin, and is also heated.
My observations have been that you cannot see the air bubbles with the naked eye, and are usually still undetectable with a jewelers loop. Although, under higher magnification, Gem professionals microscope more than 40X power, I started seeing the air bubbles around 80x power. These air bubbles were formed along curved striations, next to melted granules of quartz, and in the inclusions.
Has anyone else made these same observations?
18th Aug 2017 20:55 UTCOwen Lewis
- What will happen to a resin if it is heated to the temperature required to melt quartz?
- If resin is being used to stabilise quartz dust/chips to form as a single piece, why heat at all, let alone melt the quartz?
- Spotting air bubbles... what are you spotting, the occasional individual bubble or bubbles en masse?
Or do I misunderstand?
13th Sep 2017 09:04 UTCBee M. Nguyen
But i saw this post about strawberry quartz
I think it call hematite red quartz
https://www.mindat.org/min-11401.html
18th May 2018 21:51 UTCJane Loflin
I'm pretty much a rookie on anything that is not the more common minerals so I'm looking for an answer on this 'strawberry quartz'. First of all I know it's not the real deal but I don't think it's smelted glass. For one thing it passed the glass scratch test and there are no bubbles. It is also dense and it displays some shiny granules. I bought it because it intrigued me and I think it is pretty. What is it though?
18th May 2018 22:03 UTCGary Weinstein
18th May 2018 22:05 UTCJane Loflin
18th May 2018 22:16 UTCJane Loflin
19th May 2018 02:43 UTCDoug Daniels
19th May 2018 07:30 UTCGregg Little 🌟
Welcome to Mindat and I'm glad to see you are asking the right questions. Intrigue and beauty are great drivers in the interest and study of geology.
I work a lot with sedimentary rocks and it looks suspiciously like a quartzite with strong silica cementation. Viewing your magnified photos, the darker "dots" could be the original detrital quartz grains and the lighter surrounding areas, the quartz cement. The quartz grains appear darker because they transmit light more readily than the surrounding cement and are actually not reflecting as much light (as the surrounding cement).
Cement is a stratigrapher's term for secondary quartz precipitating in the void spaces around the quartz grains, or clumps of grains. The cement typically overgrows the grains in crystallographic continuity and if there are any void spaces left then you might see the triangular crystal termination faces. The glints or shiny flashes in your photos could be these triangular faces in tiny secondary voids (pore spaces). You might get a hand lens, or if you have access to a binocular microscope, and look for little triangular reflective faces.
The piece might be a bit large but it appears solid (i.e. very few pore spaces), relatively pure (normally not done on rock but, this looks essentially mono-minerallic) and a good candidate for a specific gravity test. Hardness around 7 and a specific gravity of around 2.65 would pretty much confirm quartzite.
Where you say "It just seems to be man made somehow because it is perfect in its imperfections." this is a characteristic of clean, mature quartzites where the grain size is very uniform and evenly distributed. If it is quartzite then it is the "real deal" except for the cut and polished pseudo-quartz crystal shape and "strawberry" dyed colour.
19th May 2018 16:07 UTCJane Loflin
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Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2024, except where stated. Most political location boundaries are © OpenStreetMap contributors. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters. Founded in 2000 by Jolyon Ralph.
Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us / DMCA issues - Report a bug/vulnerability Current server date and time: April 26, 2024 14:18:53