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Fakes & FraudsNuummite fakes

13th Mar 2013 04:24 UTCRobert Isaac

While in Tucson at the Gem Show, I found several "dealers" selling fake Nuummite. Original Nuummite comes from only one place and that is Nuuk (Godthåb), Kitaa (West Greenland) Province, Greenland. When I ask the dealers where there specimens were from they replied China or named other locations. Be aware of fakes.

13th Mar 2013 06:49 UTCStephanie Martin

The piece you posted there is not a fake. I have some cabachons that were sold to me as nuummite but they are not, but I wouldn't call them fake, I would call them mis-identified. (This happens with astrophyllite as well with getting lost in translation from anthophyllite to astrophyllite). The look-alike nuummite material is a natural rock that resembles nuummite as it is a dark rock with pyrite flecks, but that is as far as the resemblence goes, there is no iridescence and the metallic flecks do not elongate like they do in the true material. I think the source is actually California. If you know your nuummite it is easy to tell them apart, but many might not know the difference. I bought the pieces as reference samples of what is NOT nuummite. Unfortunately I am not able to post any photos due to technical and time issues at present but maybe in a few days if there is still interest in the topic.

regards,

stephanie :-)

13th Nov 2021 23:46 UTCDesiree Jerome

Are you able to tell me if this is nuummite and if not what might it be instead?? Thank you

9th Apr 2013 16:25 UTCL

Can you tell me if this is a real or mis-identified aka fake Nuummite?

Never heard of Nuummite prior to purchase at expo.

Seller said it was from Greenland.

Thank you kindly.

9th Apr 2013 17:38 UTCStephanie Martin

Hi L,

The picture is very blurry but it appears to be authentic. The wrongly identified ones have smaller flecks of pyrite that are not nearly as large as the gold flashes on your piece.

best regards,

stephanie :-)

10th Apr 2013 13:23 UTCRock Currier Expert

Could you give us a photo of the stone that is in focus? It would be better if you could take the picture in natural sunlight.

14th Apr 2013 02:14 UTCL

Thank you kindly Stephanie and Rock for your response. Here is another picture.

14th Apr 2013 02:25 UTCL

Sorry about that, picture looked better on my phone. Will have to wait till daylight to see if I can get a clearer picture. Thank you again for your reply.

14th Apr 2013 07:14 UTCStephanie Martin

I finally had a chance to take some photos but then my camera battery died after a few pics:-X, so this is the what I have for now, hope this helps.

mis-identified nuummite cabs - - the flecks could be mica although I previously indicated pyrite

authentic nuummite slab, unpolished but wet for photo to simulate polish, dried quickly so colours are a bit dull, will try for better photos when able

regards,

stephanie :-)

15th Apr 2013 01:13 UTCRock Currier Expert

Stephen,

Are you sure that the cabs are not nuummite? Nuummite is a rock type originally described by a geologist with the Danish Geological survey from a locality in Greenland. The better grades of this rock type are apparently exploited and sold by a local collective. There are probably tons of lower quality stuff that might look like those cabs if they were worked up. Recently we have been importing a lot of cut and polished items (not cabs) from China which they call Nuummite and it may or may not be Nuummite. I sent some pieces of this material to the author of the paper but never heard back as to if he thought it was from Greenland or were in fact nuummite. He said he thought that this rock type occurred in other places. If my memory serves me properly, he found the reflective flakes in Nuummite are caused by crystals of an amphiboles one of which was gedrite, but the crystals grade from gedrite into another amphibole in other parts of the crystals. This is not an easy rock type to identify correctly.

15th Apr 2013 07:59 UTCTorben Kjeldgård

Hi

I can not confirm this information, but one of the sellers of the nuummite, told me that the original

nuummite from Greenland, is an old seabed that is metamorphed into Gedrite and anthophyllite.

But the fact is that some of the worlds oldest rocks are found in Greenland.

And not any of the nuummite I have seen looks like the cabs on photo.

regards

Torben

15th Apr 2013 11:44 UTCRock Currier Expert

Torben,

The geologist in Denmark commented that he thought it a shame that the low grade material would degrade the value of the really nice nuummite. I told him that I didn't think that would be the case at all anymore than low grade turquoise, emeralds or diamonds would degrade the value of the really good ones. The more of it is around, the more people become familiar with the name and the more people who will want to get a good one when they can. Its like the use of others of the name Herkimer diamonds to describe the quartz from localities other than Herkimer Co. New York seems to have no effect on the price of really good Herkimer diamonds, probably just the opposite.

15th Apr 2013 14:07 UTCStephanie Martin

Rock, the cabs are different than even the low grade nuummite. When I am able I will post more pics of both better and lesser quality of Greenland nuummite. The main feature is that the Greenland nuummite has a streaky appearance whereas the cabs have flecks and they do not run in streaks or have a directional grain that is evident in the Greenland nuummite. It could be similar material from elsewhere but it is noticeably different in hand. It's difficult to photograph because you need to move the stones in the light to see how the light reflects to see the difference. The cabs were purchased from an Indian seller and I advised him that the material was not nuummite but of course he said that their source told them that it was nuummite, same old story. Most of my other nuummite came direct from a seller in Greenland. And a few other pieces that I have purchased are consistent with the Greenland material. I'll post photos when I can get the time and technical issues to cooperate.

regards,

stephanie

15th Apr 2013 19:51 UTCTim Jokela Jr

It's just another made-up name, so who cares what it's used for? No scientific credibility to it.

The real shame is that they put an "ite" on the end, instead of calling it Mystic 8 or Zanzibar-42 or aqua aura...

15th Apr 2013 22:17 UTCRock Currier Expert

Tim,

All words are made up. Nuummite is the name given to a particular rock type and was not intended to describe only the best of the pretty type from Greenland. It was intended to be a name for a rock type like basalt, or schist. Nuumite from other places could, and probably does have a different appearance. It would be better to call the good stuff from Greenland gem nuummite like the best grades of chrysocolla (for jewelry making) are called gem chrysocolla. When those who know about such things use the term gem chrysocolla they are talking abut a variety of chalcedony colored blue by just the right amount of chrysocolla to give it dollar per carat value on the gem market.

17th Apr 2013 16:45 UTCTim Jokela Jr

MinDat gives the impression that this is simply another marketing term, like "tanzanite".

From http://www.mindat.org/min-30937.html :

----------------------------------

"An unapproved name for a metamorphic rock consisting primarily of two amphiboles - Anthophyllite and Gedrite, the material is sometimes cut and polished as a gemstone.

The name Nuummite which means "derived from Nuuk" in Greenlandic was given to the rock type which was found near Nuuk, by the town council of Nuuk. The government granted the company Nuummite Nuuk A/S, wholly owned by Nuuk commune an exploration concession for Nuumite in the Nuuk area, as well as permission to manufacture and sell Nummite jewelry. The company is based in Nuuk."

--------------------------------

Hence my assumption that the actual name, definition, locality, was no big deal, it's just marketing by a town council, and not even an actual rock type.

But I appear to be wrong! Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuummite) offers this:

--------------

"The rock was first discovered in 1810 in Greenland by the mineralogist K. L. Giesecke.<4> It was defined scientifically by O. B. Bøggild between 1905 and 1924.<5> Nuummite is also found in Finland and the USA. "

---------------

So there we have it, you're correct, Greenland is not the only locality for "nuummite", and the MinDat reference needs fixing.

17th Apr 2013 18:52 UTCStephanie Martin

Yes Tim, it is a marketing term such as Charoite, Seraphinite, etc. I am not condoning any metaphysical properties, just using the name the lapidary trade uses for this material and which people recognize. I am not disputing that there may be "nuummite" from other locations but the Greenland material is fairly distinctive.

I still don't think the cabs in my photo are any kind of nuummite because the flecks do not appear as blades and are not directional as anthophyllite would suggest. There is also apparently another type recently noted from Mauritania that has been confirmed by the GIA using Raman spectra to be anthophyllite and gedrite (with other traces) and has distinctive blue and sometimes green iridescent/schiller blades. They actually use a different trade name for it and call it "jenakite". I have recently obtained some and await the mail to examine. I don't want to get into a debate about location naming such as hiddenite vs kunzite but nuummite to me is synonymous with the Greenland material. The "jenakite" material was found in 2009 and while it has been marketed now for a few years I hesitated to buy it until there was more information about it. The cutting is apparently difficult to master the rock to expose the blade effects, so the yields are low to produce. There is nothing on mindat or gemdat about this material that I could find. I do have the reference material noted on my home computer for it but I am at work now so I will connect the dots with that later when able so we can get it into the glossaries.

Does anyone have a photo of the material from the Chinese sellers?

regards,

stephanie :-)

13th Jul 2013 02:22 UTCKristi Hugs

I purchased some Nuummite from a company in Florida who identified it as coming from Russia. Sorry, i am late to the party, but it's taking me a while to catch up :)

13th Jul 2013 16:03 UTCD Mike Reinke

I bought a small, polished piece from a large rock shop in Evanston, Il, about 1x1x2cm, for $4 recently. Looks like the first image at the top of this thread. Mira, your looks too blue, unless it is the photo. And the 'shine' reminds me of labradoresence, not merely shiny like pyrite. In my piece, the reflections aren't remotely square in shape.

Just some thoughts...

Mike

16th Jul 2013 20:15 UTCKristi Hugs

thanks D Mike. It is not blue, I think it was the way i photographed it and the type of light (ott light) i had for the lighting. I hesitated to call it Nuummite because I had never heard of it coming from Russia, but sometimes, you just have to take the vendors word :) After reading this thread, I think I will pass if it is offered to me again :)

26th Jul 2013 19:10 UTCKatsdeelite

Thanks to you all for the conversation and analysis of nuummite. This stone is new to me and the information here is quite helpful.

The piece that you presented reminds me of a meteorite storm, Stephanie, it's beautiful. Good luck to all! Kat

26th Jul 2013 23:49 UTCStephanie Martin

Since there was renewed interest I have come back to post the Nuummite from Mauritania, marketed under the name "Jenakite". It does resemble the Greenland material more so than my gold flecked cabs, however the blue iridescence is ok but not as strong as good Greenland material. I tried to capture that best I could but the angles and lighting weren't cooperating today. Here's the best 3 shots of 3 different stones, each displaying a different degree of flash(es):

round stone 9.9mm

regards,

stephanie

27th Jul 2013 03:17 UTCD Mike Reinke

Stephanie,

Is this rock the same two amphiboles, or is that not known?

27th Jul 2013 05:12 UTCStephanie Martin

Hi Mike

Both the Greenland and Mauritanian material are gedrite with anthophyllite.

regards,

stephanie :-)

27th Jul 2013 07:43 UTCJoel Dyer

Hi all,

I noticed this thread by chance & wished to correct locality facts for nuummite. Indeed, it occurs in other places than Greenland, for instance in Finland. Could someone please update the locality list, please? Thanks in advance.

The Geological Survey of Finland has published for instance the document M06/3432/-93/1/43 by the author Risto Vartiainen, already in 1993. The small Finnish nuummite occurence is located in the Paltamo area. I'm including a picture pair copied from the publication: copyright owned by author & GTK.

24th Aug 2013 03:53 UTCBernie Keefe

Hi Gang, I bought this 'Jenakite' from a dealer on ebay who uses the handle Zoultier. I made it into a pendant for myself. The stone is considerably larger than any that Zoultier is offering now on Ebay. The stone measures 34mm x 10mm x 5mm. I can't attach a photo even with my phone, it's over 1000KB.

24th Aug 2013 09:13 UTCnurbo

I got this slab of Nuumite from Greenland some years ago, its about 6 cms long.

1st Oct 2013 03:25 UTCKristi Hugs

Just coming back for a follow up........The picture I posted and the cabs that Stephanie posted, the ones with the squarish flashes of copper colored whatever it is...........did anyone give an answer for what it actually is?? As I stated in my pic, I was told the material came from Russia. ID thoughts?

thanks!

1st Oct 2013 12:09 UTCRock Currier Expert

I don't think it is possible to identify your tumbled polished stone from the photograph you provided. It could be a at least a dozen black minerals and even more rocks. Frequently the lapidary factories that produce these things don't even know exactly, or sometimes even approximately, what it is they are working with. Just another black looking rock or mineral for their tumblers. Even if the person who owned the factory that produced it saw your picture he might not recognize it as a stone that he had produced. But I'm sure that if you really want to know about it for sure you could have the identification done at a cost probably not exceeding two or three hundred dollars unless it turns out to be a rather complex amphabole or similar thing and then the cost might run up to a thousand to run down exactly what it is.

26th Feb 2014 07:01 UTCP. Pan

Hello,

I just came back from Tucson show a week ago, I was also looking for Greenland Nuumite and ended up found the Indian vendor selling "nuumite" from China which I did not purchase. I came back and looked on eBay saw there is a Greenland vendor selling 40 grams of tumbled nuumite for $100. and a U.S. vendor selling 40 grams "Greenland" palmstones for $10 each. It is confusing. If you are interested, check out ExquisiteCrystals.com, you can see cabs over $100 which resemble the "real" nuumite Stephanie was talking about as well as $22 palm stones that look like the "fake nuumites". Does anyone know the so called "fake nuumite" - are they also gedrite and apophilite? or something else.

Peter

27th Feb 2014 10:32 UTCRock Currier Expert

The "fake" nuummite is probably not fake, but rather very low grade nuummite. It doesn't have to be from Greenland to be nnummite. Nuummite is a rock type and not a mineral with a definite type locality. The stuff from China is such low quality that I don't think anyone would bother to fake it. It doesn't look much like the stuff from Greenland, that's for sure.

1st Nov 2014 17:53 UTCKristi Hugs

Interestingly enough, I was speaking to a friend in Australia and she said that she had been doing some research as well. She found two examples of what look exactly like the Nuummite I was sold (and told it came from Russia). The pics....are from a Granite company :) Interesting!

1st Jan 2015 00:18 UTCJeanne Rhodes-Moen

The material is out of India, often marketed as black galaxy granite. Some sites do claim it is a form of Nuummite, but I am not sure. some have silver flashes, some have bronze colored flashes. I have some in the form of stone tiles. black galaxy granite

1st Jan 2015 07:54 UTCStephanie Martin

Jeanne,

Thank you for the info and link. This does look like the material that was being called nuummite or low grade nuummite. The site indicates that the flecks are caused by bronzite (enstatite), which may or may not be accurate but is plausible. I had once heard this material was from California but that was hearsay and this gives the quarry location as India. This is the best info we have so far.

regards,

stephanie :-)

1st Jan 2015 13:46 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

Seems to me if you like it buy it. What does it matter what it is called when it comes to lapidary material. A name is only important with respect to geology and mineralogy. Once you cut a stone it is just decoration ( polished sections and thin sections excluded).

24th Dec 2015 02:12 UTCNOOmite

Fake or no? Looks like black galaxy granite to me. Its all black/grey with white specs, no other colours.

24th Dec 2015 02:30 UTCDoug Daniels

Oh, it's real, whatever it is. Nummite, or black galaxy granite... no difference to most of us here. Those are not accepted geological/mineralogical/petrological names, but made up ones by those selling the stones. So, feel free to make up your own name for it.

24th Dec 2015 04:41 UTCNOOmite

no difference meaning the chemical composition of the granite/nuummite is the same?

3rd May 2016 19:42 UTCFerhan Tanudjiwa

Nuummite From Lumajang Indonesia,the called Jenakite "Bulu Macan".Specific Grafity 3.15

19th Jul 2016 02:48 UTCLindsey

Hi all. I think I may have a misidentified Nuummite ring. Can someone please help with picture I added. Thanks Great thread.

20th Jul 2016 04:53 UTCStephanie Martin

Hi Lindsey,

Yours does not appear to be Greenland or Mauritanian nuummite. It looks like the lesser grade material marketed from India/China, if you would call that nuummite at all. I still don't think that material is the same composition as the gedrite with anthophyllite that is known to comprise the other nuummites. Since the low grade kind has not had a confirmed analysis here yet. it is only a visual guess if it is a pretender or just low grade. It does look like natural rock however, rather than man made, so there is that at least.

regards,

stephanie

30th Jul 2016 19:29 UTCFerhan Tanudjiwa

Lumajangite Variety Golden black Nuumite from Indonesia,like jenakite Variant Nuumite from mauritanian

all kinds of mineral rocks anthophyllite and gedrite in the world, that deserve to be jewelery,called also nuumite

12th Jan 2017 20:09 UTCKristi Hugs

I had posted a pic of this earlier stating that a friend in Australia found out that it could be a type of granite and indeed, her piece, which looks remarkably like the "nuummite" with the copper specks is apparently called Black Galaxy granite which is a fine to medium-grained, black gabbro with golden-yellow sparkling broncite scales due to the presence of ferrous rich Enstatine (Bronzite) So, at least I am starting to catagorize a bit more. So this is Granite, NOT Nuummite.

Oh so sorry.....LOL....was excited to find info only to read that someone else had already posted this information with a link earlier. Once again, I am late to the dance.

16th Jan 2017 08:44 UTCIsmo Väisänen

Joel Dyer wrote in 2013 correct information concerning Nuummite in other regions than Greenland like in Finland.

And the Nuummite in Paltamo, Finland has been confirmed by geologists to be good quality Nuummite and part of it is very good quality Nuummite.

Our family company Kainuun Nuummiitti Oy/Nuummite Finland started to mine this Nuummite Finland last year 2016 and we have already 30 tons (kg) sawed and polished ready to be made as jewelry. We have been searching for companies around the world to do co-working with us.

In the future we will be attending Gem show In Tucson, Arizona.

Pictures of the Nuummite Finland can be found from our web site: https://www.facebook.com/nuummitefinland and from the articles of the official Finnish television/radio company's web site http://www.yle.fi/.

For your information: Best way to contact us is email: nuummitefinland@elisanet.fi or facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nuummitefinland

Still want to thank Joel Dyer for his information!

27th Jan 2017 00:41 UTCGregg Little 🌟

I too am late to this thread but my understanding is that a rock that is a gabbro or is composed of pyroxene and amphibole is not a granite, black or otherwise. Unless something earth shattering has come up in geology, I think this is still so, otherwise I stand corrected.

Just so the uninitiated who read our threads are not led astray, maybe we should identify black granite as a trade name. Nomenclature is specific and we should minimize the hi-jacking of it. Sorry to be a stickler but at some point .....

5th Mar 2019 15:38 UTCKM (Kitty Meguao)

This piece is sold to me as nuummite, but I wonder if it is actually misidentified. Does it look more like coppernite or black galaxy granite?

Does anyone know the chemical composition of coppernite? I just want to make sure because I can't seem to find much info on coppernite. It looks beautiful but I am worried does it contain copper or any other toxic component through daily wear?

Thanks

5th Mar 2019 16:23 UTCKevin Hean

Copper has "antiseptic" properties, not toxic

7th Mar 2019 13:57 UTCGregg Little 🌟

KM;

If you really want to know what you have bought then you have to understand the basic geology terminology, after all it is a piece of rock, period. Nuummite is a metamorphic rock that consists of the amphibole minerals gedrite and anthophyllite. Those two specific amphibole minerals are part of the relatively few common rock forming minerals.

To paraphrase geologyglasgow.org.uk, "There are over 5000 known mineral species, yet the vast majority of rocks are formed from combinations of a few common minerals, referred to as “rock-forming minerals”. The rock-forming minerals are: feldspars, quartz, amphiboles, micas, olivine, garnet, calcite, pyroxenes."

Coppernite does not exist other than in the fanciful naming's concocted by the marketing realm. They appear to be calling the same rock by a different name. Again this is an amphibole rich metamorphic rock.

Black Galaxy Granite is a rock that is neither granite nor from the galaxy but is indeed black. It is a name used by the decorative rock industry since the 1970's and applied to a type of metamorphic or igneous rock useful for making kitchen counter tops. This is probably the same or similar rock, this amphibole-rich mafic rock you have, all of which is very low in copper content and so non-toxic.

7th Mar 2019 14:04 UTCKristi Hugs

yup. See my posts above :)

7th Mar 2019 16:56 UTCGregg Little 🌟

Hi Kristi;

Ya I know. A cacophony of names to impart awe in natural materials whereas just reading and understanding earth's process and the rocks they represent should be awesome in itself. Introducing spiritualism or religion in all its permutations, aliens, ancient fictitious civilizations really does injustice to the wondrous natural forces that shape the planet. Oh well, what else would we have to rant about?

21st May 2019 18:17 UTCZed Lindberg

@KM that is the "black galaxy granite" that was brought up earlier.

Since people still seem to get confused I will try to reiterate to clear this out.

Indian market sellers selling cheap stones as nuummite - that's going to be the gabbro from the mine in their own country.

"Black galaxy granite" is a typical term derived from Indian culture where they don't use scientific basis, they just use names. In the same way as they call all kinds of stones jasper erringly, this time they've tossed on granite.

A proper international term for GIA standards etc would be something like Black Galaxy Gabbro.

Gabbro is the scientific composition, and black galaxy a name for a certain locality with some flair. When you have a big slab that's polished, it might aesthetically remind you of space because of the bronzite.

Compare black galaxy gabbro to other fancy gabbros like indigo gabbro and larvikite gabbro.

8th Jul 2019 01:56 UTCSixta T Hall

Hi, I would like to share a picture of a Nuummite Wand purchased. I have checked other pictures of original nuummite and this wand doesn't resemble the original ones. Please help me to identify is this wand is a genuine Nuummite, as it certainly was not cheap to purchase it.

I have attached a couple of pictures and request your assistance to identify is this is a genuine Nuummite.

I highly appreciate your assistance in this matter. Thank you kindly

Sixta Hall

8th Jul 2019 16:43 UTCDonald B Peck Expert

Sixta;

I do not believe that anyone will be able to answer your question. The rock is black, it shows iridescence, and it could well be composed of amphiboles . . . all of which fit nuummite. As I understand it nuummite is rather a local name for an amphibolite found at Nuuk, Greenland. Mindat has a page about it: https://www.mindat.org/min-30937.html

Wikipedia also has a page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuummite

Identifying rocks from a photo is almost impossible, it requires studying a thin section in polarized light.

Don

18th Apr 2024 17:46 UTCsa janssens

Does somebody know if this is Nuummite? Thanks!

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