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How to ContributeProper Formats for Mindat Input

28th Apr 2014 14:52 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

It's time for another semi-annual reminder on proper formats for locality files (still current as of 6/15/2015):

- Only proper named mines and quarries have "Mine" and "Quarry" capitalized (e.g.: Holbrook Mine; Bound Brook Quarry). Unnamed mines and quarries are not capitalized (e.g.: Unnamed Marble quarry; Unnamed Zn-Pb mine). All other category designations are NOT capitalized (e.g.: shaft, tunnel, prospect, pit, diggings, claim, adit, etc.).

- "Mountains" is always abbreviated for a mountain range name (e.g.: Argus Mts, Ozark Mts, Atlas Mts). If the word "mountains" is part of a mine or district name, it is spelled out (e.g.: Green Mountain Mine; Voodoo Mountain District).

- Proper format for references is family name of author or principal author first, then first (given) name and/or any initials, year of the publication in parentheses (required for a Mindat programming tool), reference name in full (no abbreviations - required for easier understanding within Mindat's international community).

- There are no characters in front of references (e.g.: no "-" or "+" or "●")

- References are in chronological order - oldest first, not alphabetically by author.

- A line is skipped between references.

- Localities such as road cuts should be listed to include the proper side of the road, identity of the road, and the kilometer or mile marker(s) involved:

South side of Autobahn A4, km marker 225. or North side of US highway 223, between mile markers 134 & 135. or Intersection of US highway 213 and Interstate highway 35, along ramp from eastbound highway 213 to northbound interstate 35.

- Localities along waterways are similarly specified. In the United States, waterways have mile markers that can be found on USGS topo maps. I know that the Rhein River in Germany has km markers along its course but I am not aware of such markers along other waterways in Germany or Europe, but if available, they can be used:

North side of Middle Fork American River, just upstream of river mile 104 or Midstream between river mile markers 109 & 110, Middle Fork American River, etc.

- Abbreviations and symbols unique to a country or region should not be used in text within the description block (e.g.: no " ° ", " ' " (for foot/feet), " " " (for inches), "lbs.", "oz", t (ton), or any similar symbols/abbreviations which might not be easily understood on the world stage. Dimensions and distances should be given in metric terms as well as any US terms whenever possible.

- Please don't invent new formats for personal amusement - stick with the program.

Please remember that whatever is entered into Mindat will potentially be viewed, and needs to be understood, by the world community. Thanks!

Chet Lemanski

28th Apr 2014 15:37 UTCKelly Nash 🌟 Expert

Understand this need for consistency but I do wish this was in the manual or somewhere to find it easier than searching through old board posts. Some of it could be added as text under the windows to enter the references and such.

28th Apr 2014 16:07 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Kelly,

You have a very valid point. The requirements are there, just not as prominent as they need to be. The manual needs an update badly. It is a pending project. Thanks for your interest in Mindat!!!

Chet

28th Apr 2014 17:58 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

http://manual.mindat.org/index.php/Naming_Conventions

28th Apr 2014 18:28 UTCJamison K. Brizendine 🌟 Expert

Chet ,

I would like to thank you for posting this. I found the post to be very informative and since I didn’t know the “proper” (I will come back to this later) format for editing locality data, I for one highly appreciate this. There are two things I would like to point out…

You mentioned this:

“References are in chronological order - oldest first, not alphabetically by author”

This threw me for a loop and I have never encountered a scientific journal where the chronological order superseded the author’s last name in a list of references. Is there an example where this would occur except on Mindat? I personally have never seen a list of cited references done in this format before…personally I think this doesn’t look aesthetically pleasing, but if it isn’t broken, then it isn’t my place to fix it. Now that I know that this is the SOP for the website, I will stick to it.

“Please don't invent new formats for personal amusement - stick with the program.”

I am that high school kid in the back of classroom gazing up to the ceiling sighing and sounding a little exasperated… “I just wish I knew what the program was…”

I don’t know how many times I have gotten in trouble by various teachers and professors about how to properly list cited references. It seems each professor had a different way or insisted on different formats to list references. I remember when I was in college I wrote two papers in the same time frame, one for a geology class and another for a European history class. The professors had given us a list on how to properly list our sources and of course the formats were both completely different: One insisted on the style used by the Geological Society of America (GSA) and the history professor wanted American Psychological Association (or APA) style for our papers.

Even in our own discipline I can give you some examples of different citations, using one article:

I chose a random source from here: http://www.mindat.org/loc-3322.html

Mindat.org:

Lewis, D.V. (1955), Relationships of ore bodies to dikes and sills, Economic Geology: 50: 495-516.

The Mineralogical Record:

LEWIS, D.V.(1955) Relationships of ore bodies to dikes and sills. Economic Geology, 50, 495-516.

Rocks and Minerals:

Lewis, D.V. 1955. Relationships of ore bodies to dikes and sills. Economic Geology 50:495-516.

Geological Society of America (GSA):

Lewis, D.V. 1955, Relationships of ore bodies to dikes and sills. Economic Geology, v. 50, p. 495-516.

Sedimentary Geology by Donald Prothero and Fred Schwab (2004), W. H Freeman and Press:

Lewis, D.V., 1955. “Relationships of ore bodies to dikes and sills.” Eco. Geol. 50: 495-516.

The point here is that each publication uses a “slightly” different way to list references and none of them I would consider it to be an “incorrect” model, as long as it is done in a consistent manner.

Chet, I would like to say, thank you for all the work that you have done for the website. Hopefully once the manual is done a lot of our confusion will hopefully go away.

28th Apr 2014 19:49 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Listing references in chronological order is more common in books (for instance the Handbook of Mineralogy and Dana's System of Mineralogy). The references here tend to not be cited in the descriptions so the ability to find them in the references by author isn't as useful as in a journal article.

28th Apr 2014 19:57 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

RRUFF puts references in chronological order under the species they have. It is very interesting to see the published evolution of the species. With usually a dozen or so references, it really doesn't matter what order they are in, even I can sort it out.;-)

28th Apr 2014 20:10 UTCJamison K. Brizendine 🌟 Expert

Thank you David and Rob for clarifying that position, see I learned something new!

28th Apr 2014 20:30 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Jamison,

We have been using chronological order for references for a long time. There are many thousands of examples in the database, and there will be more as we fix them. The chronological order keeps the most current/sophisticated (?) data readily identifiable at the end of the list.

Using a format with "vol. No. p." or a similar format inserts a lot of unnecessary bytes of data into the database. We have a format that is similar to, but more streamlined than some of the other publications. Use of commas throughout a reference and then in the "vol., No., p." can be confusing.

A few of our mandates are dictated by the grand fubah himself (e.g.: use of "Mts").

Chet

3rd Jul 2014 00:42 UTCVandall Thomas King Manager

I agree about the odd reference pattern, but putting references in chronological order helps in understanding how the research progressed. The earlier references have the early information and you can see the progress of thought. I would add that references should have complete names and titles, as much as possible, especially as the science gets older. There are an amazing number of mineralogists with the same last names and similar initials. As it is, it is particularly difficult to discover the full names of people who have minerals named for them as well as for the people who named them. Some day, we may actually see a mineralogist writing a paper about a new mineral named for some other mineralogist who has the same name. There are a few examples of authors of a new species who are the subject of the mineral being named and there are authors who have named minerals for their parents or spouses. There's one mineral that was named for the wife of his friend. The reference lists can't get very difficult to search for. I'm going to the Mormon family history center next week to discover the name of a person who had a mineral named for them, but only their initials were in the descriptive paper. When we were working on Dana's System, Dick Gaines searched for Mr. Wegscheider to learn his vital dates. The actual man was still alive and surprised to learn that a mineral had been named for him a half century before.

18th Jul 2014 15:04 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Please note that the desireable format for references places the family name of the author/principal author first, not last:

Correct: Smedley, John Jose (2008)......

Incorrect: John Jose Smedley (2008).....

Also, we do not place parenthetical phrases with the locality name in the locality string:

Correct: Smedley Mine (Goober Digger Mine),...

Incorrect: Smedley (Goober Digger) Mine,.....

Also, when providing a published reference, the page number(s) should be provided. Some references are voluminous and simply providing the reference may result in an exhausting search of the reference to find the data, particularly if the reference is poorly indexed.

Thanks Again!

Chet Lemanski

2nd Nov 2014 03:02 UTCAnonymous User

All other category designations are NOT capitalized (e.g.: shaft, tunnel, prospect, pit, diggings, claim, adit, etc.)

Unless I am misunderstanding you I would have to disagree with this. Some (if not all) of the features you listed can be capitalized if they are proper names. For example, a local iron mine (Sherman Mine) consists of open pits that are generally capitalized as North Pit, South Pit, West Pit and East Pit.

2nd Nov 2014 08:07 UTCUlf Nyberg

I'm not sure I have understand all that correct.

To me the place where I find a mineral, is a locality and how should I then describe

the locality if I found the mineral on a road building area inside a tunnel or in a

road cut?

Such localities are plenty in Norway and the tunnels can be from some hundreds

of meters into several kilometers in lengths.

Ulf

8th Sep 2015 19:51 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Here we go again!!

Management is struggling with several issues right now. I do not work with photos very often so I will leave the policies for these alone; however, I do work with locality pages and mineral species occurrences. One of our long-term problems is the use of "visually identified" as the basis for a mineral identification. This is perfectly acceptable for some species (quartz and most of its varieties, muscovite, malachite, gold, copper). It is not acceptable for many other species (the majority). It is one thing if a species is known to occur at a location and the contributor is familiar with its appearance from that location. Adding a species to a location where it is not already listed requires a good degree of certainty regarding its identity. I, myself, have made a field identification of bright blue material at a mine containing copper ores, calling it azurite. Later analysis by a friend and fellow collector from the same collecting trip had it analyzed and found it to be linarite. Many minerals can only be identified by sight at the group level (e.g.) tourmaline, mica, feldspar, pyroxene, amphibole). It is not possible to visually identify foitite, hyalophane, etc. Even rhodonite can not be visually identified unless you are knowledgeable of the conditions of formation - it might be pyroxmangite. So, visual identification requires additional means such as specific gravity, crystallographic evaluation, hardness, refractive index, reflected light properties, not to mention the array of scientific analytical methods. Most of the sulfosalts are similarly not identifiable in the massive form by sight only. Right now we have proposed listings for oxyplumboroméite, cuproroméite, dravite, melanterite, chalcocite (presumably massive), and other species with no other means of identification other than "visually identified." The fact that many species occur together in zoned crystals or as solid solutions (50% rule) (garnet group, tourmaline group, londonite-rhodizite series, and many others) is another complicating factor. In these cases the use of the group-level name should be used (e.g.) garnet group, tourmaline group), or a series name (grossular-spessartine series, tetrahedrite-tennantite series) if known.

Using the term "in the collection of______" or "self-collected by & in the collection of____" are similarly problematic. Many of our worldwide contributors are not known well enough, or not at all, except in their local area. Unless these contributors provide an adequate bio sketch in their Mindat registration for public viewing, the listing is virtually useless since almost no one will know how experienced and reliable that person is. Using the term "self-collected" alone is perfectly useless since Mindat users will have no idea of who "self" is. You must use your name here. The public only sees exactly what is included in the reference data field. Simply stating "dealer label" is also of dubious value. There are many fine, professional dealers who endeavor to accurately identify their merchandise; however, there are others who do not. If this option is the only method of identification documented, then a photo of the label should be entered as a related photo. Again, I have to remind everyone that Mindat is a global database used by users in many countries and speaking many languages we must be as clear as possible in our input.

If we continue to allow the questioned practices, the resulting data in the database will unavoidably be considered "inaccurate." One of the only means of minimizing the problem of visual identification is to use the category "unconfirmed" when proposing these occurrences. If you have more than simply visual identification you should include it in the description block for that proposed listing. If your identification is solely based on appearance and it is an obscure species or looks similar to many other species, it would be best not to list it at all.

The management staff of Mindat work on a voluntary basis and conscientiously attempt to keep the Mindat database as credible as possible. Everyone's cooperation in this regard is greatly appreciated. Pleased don't get offended if your input is not approved if the foregoing conditions were involved.

13th Jan 2016 20:10 UTCAmir C. Akhavan Expert

The mindat manual has recently been rewritten for reference formats.

Rules are explained here
http://manual.mindat.org/index.php/References

14th Jan 2016 00:24 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

Thanks Amir. We needed this.

17th Nov 2017 15:11 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

PROPER FORMATS FOR REFERENCES:

We continue to get input for mineral species occurrences that have incorrectly formatted references (traditional literature references). You may have noted that Mindat now has incorporated the ability to change the format for listed references within the individual locality pages. For this to work (sorting references by author's name), the references MUST have the author's family name (or the principal author's family name) FIRST. Other formats are incorrect and negate the utility of the sorting option feature.

17th Nov 2017 15:24 UTCJamison K. Brizendine 🌟 Expert

Erin, I think it would be useful if we had the reference formats in the updated Mindat Manual. These were the examples Amir gave, which I pulled from the Internet Archive:

Journal Articles

Goldsmith, J.R., Graf, D.L., Witters, J., Northrop, D.A. (1962) Studies in the system CaCO3•MgCO3•FeCO3: (1) Phase relations; (2) A method for major element spectrochemical analyses; and (3) Composition of some ferroan dolomites. Journal of Geology: 70(7): 659-688.

Book Sections

Palache, C., Berman, H., Frondel, C. (1944) The System of Mineralogy of James Dwight Dana and Edward Salisbury Dana Yale University 1837-1892, Volume I: Elements, Sulfides, Sulfosalts, Oxides. John Wiley and Sons, Inc., New York. 7th edition, revised and enlarged: 680-685.

Field Guides

Bailes, A., Rubingh, K., Gagné, S., Taylor, C., Galley, A., Bernauer, S., Simms, D. (2013) Volcanological and structural setting of Paleoproterozoic VMS and gold deposits at Snow Lake, Manitoba. Field Trip Guidebook FT-A2. Geological Association of Canada–Mineralogical Association of Canada Joint Annual Meeting, Winnipeg. Open File OF 2013-3, 73 pages.

Personal Communications

Jonathan, James R. (2015) Alaska Geological Survey, personal communication to James Prospector.

Unpublished References

Collected by James Prospector (2015) Material analyzed via EDS by Dr. Hubertus A. Goodfellow, Razzamataz University, Columbus, Alaska, USA.

Online References

On locality pages, references to websites and other online sources are entered in a separate field.

Resources to online sources use a different format: A URL, followed by a dash "-" and some text explaining what is found at the online source.

http://www.mindat.org/article.php/1408/Photos+of+Fake+Skeletal+Galena - Photos of Fake Skeletal Galena.

Anyway you can insert these as examples?

17th Nov 2017 19:58 UTCErin Delventhal Manager

The plan is to implement a form that will auto-generate the correct formats so this will no longer be an issue.

Please be patient and I'll continue pestering the powers that be about this.

17th Nov 2017 20:03 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

The most essential part is that the format must be

Surname, Initial (YEAR)....

The YEAR in parentheses is essential for the sort ordering. No months, no other additions, just a four digit year please.

17th Nov 2017 20:35 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager

I would also add that a FULL STOP and line break at the end of EACH reference is also needed. So often do we see references all merged to gether and it can be a pain to correct. Particularly when a new reference is added.

23rd Dec 2017 00:01 UTCJonelle DeFelice

It is annoying spending hours searching for, editing, and submitting information for local localities, only to find someone has deleted it all.

I do my best to be thorough, name source material, and provide links, and almost every time someone deletes it or changes it, and I am not talking small edits.

I recently found some very interesting and in depth texts regarding minerals found in my state, and added them to their respective pages. But almost everything I worked on and added is gone.

Wouldn't it be fairer for whoever does this to TELL the member WHY? If I am making a mistake, TELL ME so I don't waste hours of research again. This really puts me off wanting to add information to localities anymore...

23rd Dec 2017 00:45 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Jonelle,

Can you give me some examples of this gross editing?? I have reviewed your recent changes and may have made some minor edits but I surely do not recall and major deletions of data. Much of the data you are adding is great. Main issue as I recall is lack of adherence to our capitalization rules. Please read the Mindat manual to insure that you are familiar with our basic requirements.

Chet Lemanski

23rd Dec 2017 00:55 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Jonelle,

I went back and reviewed all changes made to the files you worked on through December 18th. I see only very minor edits (capitalization) or no changes whatever since you made the input. The only exception is one file where I placed your text that is quoted from a reference into a quote box and entered a footnote number (instructions on how to add footnote numbers are found in the manual). No deletions of data!

Pending your providing examples of the gross deletions, is it possible that there are files you worked on and perhaps didn't correctly submit the data?

Chet Lemanski

23rd Dec 2017 01:27 UTCJeff Weissman Expert

Perhaps cache needs to be cleared in order to display the updates?

23rd Dec 2017 15:23 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Not a cache problem.

23rd Dec 2017 15:52 UTCWayne Corwin

Jonelle

Did you keep a copy of your work/info so you could reinput it if nessary?

24th Dec 2017 18:24 UTCJonelle DeFelice

Wayne Corwin Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jonelle

> Did you keep a copy of your work/info so you could

> reinput it if nessary?

MAN, I hope so...

WAIT!!!!! HOLD THE PHONE!!!!!!!!!

Are my eyes broken or something???? I just took a new look and while the format has slightly changed here and there, some of my text IS INDEED still up!

Geeesh, NOW I feel like an absolute IDIOT. Could be that since the format was different, I jumped the gun (OR my eyes are broken, as previously stated).

Though I could have SWORN I added info to Betts Manganese Mines (Anson Betts Mine; Plainfield Manganese Mines), Plainfield, Hampshire Co., Massachusetts, USA .

Sorry about the confusion................................................. you may admonish me now... COAL in my Christmas stocking...........

24th Dec 2017 20:02 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

As I said initially, only minor formatting changes were made, no deletions of your data, which our records confirmed.

No changes whatever made by anyone to the Betts Mn Mine since 12 August, 2016.

We do sincerely appreciate your contributions to Mindat.org. Your many photos are enhancing our locality pages.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!

Chet Lemanski

24th Dec 2017 20:58 UTCJonelle DeFelice

MERRY CHRISTMAS to you as well! :-)

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