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GeneralSimple tests for minerals and reactivity

2nd Jul 2014 14:57 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

Would it be possible to add a section for each mineral where members could add information ( and photos) on the reaction of the mineral to various chemicals such as Super Iron Out or acids etc. without having to go through a manager? This could further be subdivided into sections such as flame tests, bead tests, magnetic susceptiblity etc. There is a lot of good old information out there on simple tests that are fading into history because of modern technology but can still be useful and inexpensive to use. There is also some erroneous information out there that needs to be exposed and mindat would be the perfect place to do it. I realize there is such information in the messages etc. but it is not easy to find and it needs to be systematically recorded and readily available.

Also there seems to be resistance to changes by Mindat in the basic information on individual minerals because the differences were not noted in the description for the type material. It would be nice to be able to post notes to these individual minerals without having to go through a manager so that others are aware of discrepancies with the understanding that they are not based on published data but observations by people familiar with the mineral species in question. For example information in mindat and the type paper imply that anilite has no cleavage/parting, but some of it has a very good cleavage/parting I think it is important to have that noted on the species page.

2nd Jul 2014 16:39 UTCDonald Peck

I am not so sure that "not going through a manager" is a good idea, although, a section under each mineral with tests and reactions might be. It would be a gigantic undertaking.

2nd Jul 2014 16:42 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Such additions to species pages would have to be vetted for accuracy before being allowed on the page. If someone describes a test result on mineral X, how do we know their mineral X was correctly identified and not really mineral Y? How do we know whether the test result is valid for all samples of mineral X, or is locality-specific for samples with a certain impurity or substitution? How quantified will the results be? If someone observes a reaction in a 25% acid at 30 C, will someone else be able to observe it with 10% acid at 15 C? Is the mineral X for which a test was described in 19th century literature still defined as the same mineral X today, or has it been discredited or split up into several new species? These things tend to be a bit nebulous, which is exactly why they've fallen out of favor in modern times, although I admit they are still very useful for troglodytes like myself who don't have much high-tech equipment ;-)


Perhaps the best way to handle it would be for anyone with a test they'd like to share to describe it on a "talk page". Open any species page and there is a button near the top to "Discuss Mineral X". That opens a "talk page" forum for that species where anyone can share this type of info and other users can comment on its accuracy and repeatability. If there is a general consensus that something works and that the species involved were correctly identified in the first place, then we can consider putting the info on the Species page. Meanwhile, the proposed info will still be accessible to anyone via this "talk page".

2nd Jul 2014 17:15 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

The talk page idea would be good, as long as it is something that is linked to a specific mineral and has everything in one place. As for possible mistakes that even happens if it is vetted by a manager. It would be up to members like me to make sure there are no bad mistakes, I really can't see anything wrong with that.

2nd Jul 2014 17:27 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

It's easier to just go out and buy Donald's book. He goes into detail about the tests along with the safety procedures that should be followed.

2nd Jul 2014 17:41 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

Hello Dave,


Aren't you supposed to be promoting Mindat? Besides, Donald's book may be good but it contains only a fraction of the information that is out there.

2nd Jul 2014 17:51 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

I don't like reinventing the wheel.

2nd Jul 2014 18:43 UTCPhil M. Belley Expert

It would be nice (and very useful) to have such information on mindat. What is the title of Donald's book?

3rd Jul 2014 01:20 UTCRock Currier Expert

If our programmers ever get around to organizing Mindat articles and making it possible for us to search easily for them, there could be articles about cleaning different kinds of minerals that would be easy to find. Well written articles will find their way to those who need them. Our articles are picked up by search engines on the net. The one I wrote about cleaning quartz has been viewed more than 150 K times. So all of you with experience in cleaning minerals, start writing articles about what you clean and how you do it. Eventually there will be a lot of them and we can put them all together in one big article that can be alphabetical by species.

7th Jul 2014 23:22 UTCDana Morong

Alfredo Petrov's comments are very good in this regard. There is a lot of old but useful information out there, but many of these tests need some experience and even judgment on the part of the user (for example, it is best to have experience with known species in the same test before testing for a suspected species). I would suggest to get Donald Peck's book (it is a great book anyway), and then I think you might find, on the CD in back, a sort of "Source Guide" which, somewhere within it, includes some comments about some of the older books, and even a few comments about a few of the older tests. The subject is too large and complicated to go into here, but that may help steer one in that direction. In any case, Donald Peck's book is one that should be included in a mineralogist's library, along with more classic works such as Pough, Sinkankas, and Dana. It is still available, I believe, from Mineralogical Record (see their website, then into Books).
 
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