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GeneralRecommendations for REE literature etc.

20th Feb 2015 08:36 UTCJoel Dyer

Hi folks,

I'm trying to learn and study REE-minerals in more depth and need some advise on good rare earth element (here I include the element Y etc) literature and possible other aid tools. Articles links are also welcome, but I need to get some decent books as well.

My aim is to understand the where, how & why of REE minerals, their occurences, and alteration products. If there are also some chemical aid methods / other tools that can help, recommendations for affordable (digital?) geiger counters etc, I'm all the more greatful.

I've found some books on the Internet, including the below, and opinions on these would be welcome as well.

- Rare Earth Minerals: Chemistry, Origin and Ore Deposits (The Mineralogical Society Series) 1995

- Rare Earth Element Geochemistry (Developments in Geochemistry) 1983

- Allanite and Other REE-Rich Epidote-Group Minerals Reviews in Mineralogy and Geochemistry, January 2004, v. 56, p. 431-493 (anyone have this & is it possible to email a scan of it?)

- Analytical Chemistry of Minerals - (some useful info on mineral chemistry & analysis methodology)

Used books would really be an added bonus to me, if available anywhere, but is not a requirement.

Oh, and I'm not keen per such on dry (=poorly written), difficult to read books chock-full of mathematical formulas & endless tables like too many supposedly-introductory [101 or 201 level] mineralogical college works nowadays. I'm used to reading long and reasonably technical books, so that's not an issue. Quality, realiability & readability is to me important.

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

20th Feb 2015 10:43 UTCJohan Kjellman Expert

Here is a classic:

Geochemistry and mineralogy of rare elements and genetic types of their deposits / K.A. Vlasov, ed. Transl. from Russian by Z. Lerman. 1966-1968

Vol. 1, Geochemistry of rare elements; Vol. 2, Mineralogy of rare elements; Vol. 3, Genetic types of rare-element deposits.

I see that there is presently one copy of volume 2 for sale at Amazon - run for it!

cheers

20th Feb 2015 15:20 UTCJoel Dyer

Hejsan,

Tack Johan, låter mycket bra! Jag brukar beställa mycket från amazon.co.uk, men gällande USA så måste man betala ofta betygligt mera i postnadskostanderna. Hela serien låter intressant. Jag ska se om man kan låna någonting t.ex. via GTK (Geologiska forskningscentralen) först...

Thaks Johan! Looks like a great set of volumes, let's see how I manage with this/these item/items. Older books are often written in a much more palatable way, too...

Cheers / MVH,

20th Feb 2015 19:28 UTCDon Saathoff Expert

Hello Joel,

I tried a couple of hours ago to add this to your thread, was told I couldn't because of some "possible hack" nonsense, so I sent you a PM. NOW, I can add to the thread!!! Check your PMs for my message - I don't know if email PM alerts are dependable any longer......

Don Saathoff

20th Feb 2015 19:48 UTCJoel Dyer

Hi Don!

Thanks a lot to you, too, for the great help. I sent you a PM.

I'd still be glad for any further suggestions & advise from other experienced Mindaters, who so often are very friendly and helpful.

Cheers,

21st Feb 2015 14:42 UTCLuís Martins 🌟

The Vlasov books seem excellent, but they are almost impossible to get. Anybody knows if there is a PDF version available?

24th Feb 2015 18:22 UTCRoy Starkey 🌟 Manager

Hi Joel

If you have not yet seen it there is a fairly helpful general review available free from the British Geological Survey here

https://www.bgs.ac.uk/downloads/start.cfm?id=1638

Regards

Roy

5th Mar 2015 21:32 UTCTony Albini

Joel, Fred Davis sent me an article from the Journal of Geochemical Exploration titled:

Niobium and tantalum in minerals: Siderophile, chalcophile or lithiophile, and polyvalent by Robert F. Martin, Pierre-Alain Wulser.

May be of interest to you.

Tony Albini

6th Mar 2015 03:41 UTCJoel Dyer

Roy, thaks for the link: I downloaded the document, read it am am storing it in my "archive"

Hi, Tony. Many thanks, I'm certainly interested in any REL / REE article and am thankful for any material I can get my hands on.

I managed eventually to "remote borrow" Vol I of Vlasov's Geochem. and Min. of Rare Elements etc. with the kind help of the staff of Geological Survey of Finland and am enjoying the opus right now. Hopefully, I will be able to borrow the other volumes too at some point. Living in a small town far away from big cities means one has to often improvise hobby-wise, too, as well as in other matters.

Another book I borrowed is vol. 56 of Rev. in Min. & Geochem: Epidotes, which has a chapter on allanite etc.

Thanks again for ALL the help and support that I've received so far, and any further tips or advise be always be very much appreciated.

Cheers!

6th Mar 2015 17:45 UTCLászló Horváth Manager

The Vlasov book was excellent when it was published in the 1960s and it is still a classic, but it is way out of date and it was never particularly good on REE minerals.

7th Mar 2015 05:22 UTCJoel Dyer

Hi László,

Thanks for your input, appreciated. Can you, then, counter-recommend more modern works for me? I will soon be borrowing a more modern REE book & have already read London's suprisingly well written pegmatite book as well, to speak of more general related stuff. All suggestions are welcome.

I always like to read older, perhaps more fluently written "outdated" books (Sahama etc), along with modern "currently accepted" works. If one keeps one's eyes open & wit about oneself, reading older works give more perspective and a lot of information that is lost among many very dry, very narrowly scoped books nowadays. Also, the style is often more fluent and entertaining and "civilised" old school type.

As we also know, science is continually evolving, as what is "absolute truth" today, will be outdated in even 10 years, and interestingly, some old theories, results and opinions, are frequently re-examined again later on, a bit in the style of " is coffee / red wine/ etc very harmful or not".

Many modern books, as mentioned, are full of endless formulas, charts, advanced theoretical terminology etc.if you get my drift. These books are also are "bombared" or backed up by references or defending one's theories or findings / refuting other people's work in every second sentence, it seems. Sometimes because of this, too, it is a bit annoying and tedious to quickly get the gist of what actually is pertinent. Time is precious and one's life so short!

Where has the ability to actually "write" and "tell a story" gone? As an aside, an extreme example of "science fo dummies" are Oliver Sacks' books, which personally one has enjoyed immensly & added to one's understanding.

My silly opinions or preferences are perhaps rooted in my former studies of literary history & theory at college...where I also got fed up with certain hair-splitting stuff...But seriously, I think that in universities etc, more weight should be put on training scholars / teachers / professors in writing texts, too, not just publishing results - I'm sure I'm not the only one who has tripped on poorly written texts with many mistakes as well. But with today's realities, economic pressure etc, well...

I'm also concerned *in general* with today's tendency to concentrate in just everything on "what is hot today" [ as well as light entertainment, too often]. Many at least young people don't seem to know - even want to know - much about many historical aspects, background information etc. Very sad, and not boding that good for the future of the world and mankind, or else I'm just ranting and rambling on...sorry, got off-track here.

Anyways, many thanks and sorry for the outpour,and hope I'm not opening a nasty "can of worms". I just want to understand things so I can utilize the information, and explain matters to myself and others, in form of discussions and articles that do not necessary require a PhD or 25-40 years of lab work.

I wait for further advise from kind Mindaters. And who, pray will take on the task of writing a fairly thick "REE for Dummies" ? - It might sell a few copies, too ;-)

Cheers,

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