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Techniques for CollectorsInevitable Advancement of Technoloty

22nd Apr 2016 19:34 UTCD. Peck

Well, I am eating my words . . . or database . . .or labels . . .or . . .

A few months ago, in a discussion on mineral catalogs and in another on labels, I brashly made the statement to choose a database or cataloging program that will be around for a while. Subsequently, I switched from MS Windows XP to Win 10. I had confidently stated that I used MS Access as the database on which I built my catalog and I expected it to persist. And . . .it is still here! But . . .in Win 7, 8, and 10 the wizards at Microsoft changed the database format. To add insult to injury, they did not include a means to convert the XP format to the 10 format. Alas, I am now rebuilding my catalog.

OK, I have removed one foot from my mouth . . .now for the other one (I suffer from "Hoof-in-mouth Disease") I have proclaimed the value of Labels Unlimited for printing micro box labels. But, it is apparently a 16 bit application . . . won't run under Win 10. So now I have to bite the bullet, and learn to program the new Access to print labels.

Mea Culpa Or whatever. How many cliches did I use in that self-immolating diatribe?

22nd Apr 2016 19:38 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

"Inevitable Advancement of Technoloty"

Does that apply to spell checkers as well?

22nd Apr 2016 22:50 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Do you still have the old access program running somewhere?

If so, you can export it to a csv file.

https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/d5432b8e-08f6-4b6a-b13d-fc7656970704/export-an-access-table-to-a-csv-file?forum=isvvba

Once you have it in this format, you should be able to import it to the modern access.

Have you tried running Labels Unlimited in compatibility mode?

http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/set-compatibility-mode-windows-10

22nd Apr 2016 23:11 UTCOwen Melfyn Lewis

David Von Bargen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Do you still have the old access program running

> somewhere?

> If so, you can export it to a csv file.

> https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/d54

> 32b8e-08f6-4b6a-b13d-fc7656970704/export-an-access

> -table-to-a-csv-file?forum=isvvba

>

> Once you have it in this format, you should be

> able to import it to the modern access.

Yes. All computer databases are constructed around the concept of records and, within records, data fields.

So. first choose your new database. It's rumoured that Microsoft will abandon Access,, so you might want to save more work just down the line by choosing a different database (such as Delphi). Again, you want you choose a new database that uses 64-bit rather then 32 or 16 bit coding.

Having selected your program of choice, you next need to construct a database in it that uses records with the identical fields to your current database.

Then export all records and their fields from your current database to a .CSV file (or even a comma deliniated file?). Then import that file to the new empty database structure you have prepared..

Me? I catalogue all my stuff, specimen data, images, graphs and links to actual specimens in Microsoft Excel.

23rd Apr 2016 00:01 UTCEugene & Sharon Cisneros Expert

Don,

There are ways to run 16 bit applications in Win 10. Here is one site that you may want to look at.
Win 10 16 bit apps

23rd Apr 2016 01:02 UTCRudy Bolona Expert

It's a great racket all these technology/software/computer wizards have devised. It's an endless, gushing river of money.

23rd Apr 2016 02:47 UTCPaul Brandes 🌟 Manager

Maybe we should all just go back to neatly hand-written labels.

As far as I know, that software hasn't changed in hundreds of years....... :-D

23rd Apr 2016 03:29 UTCDoug Daniels

The legibility sure has.....

23rd Apr 2016 04:16 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager

Don

That's one reason I have switched over to using minID for my data base use.

I have effectively moved from hand written cards to word templates and the like and now to minID.

Still moving specimens across - will take a while yet, but for all new items I am adding directly into minID. I figure that at least that way they are accessible and hopefully Mindat will keep up with changing technology.

I use Excel for my labels. Even if the whole Excel was changed - I can easily create a new label template from scratch.

Cheers

Keith

23rd Apr 2016 04:33 UTCD. Peck

Hi Steve:

>."Inevitable Advancement of Technoloty" <

> Does that apply to spell checkers as well? <

Touche! LOL

23rd Apr 2016 04:52 UTCD. Peck

Doug: You made my day!

And everyone, you are being most helpful. I am eager to try some of your obscure websites/applications. I hope they work.

I, too, have heard rumors that Access may be discarded. I tend to doubt it, because I believe it is too deeply embedded in business operations, particularly sales and manufacturing. And while Excell will work (used to use it), it is not really a database program and has limitations. Owen, I did a lot of programming in Delphi back from about 1985 to 2010 but somehow don't feel I can tackle an Access db with an unknown structure. Maybe it is my age . . . I am getting old.

Thanks everyone. If one or more of these ideas work, I'll let you know. Hell, I'll let you know either way. To friendship! :)-D

23rd Apr 2016 08:10 UTCUwe Ludwig

When I purchased my first computer around 25 years ago it included the old Lotus-smartSuite office programs. With the Lotus Approach I set up my first and only (!) collection data base. In the mean time I have some better PCs of course with windows system and microsoft office programs. However, I retained my old Lotus data base. Surprisingly it runs and runs at all windows programms without any problem (may be it is too old to be heeded).

With my Lotus Approach I have one record for each specimen including all information for the respctive piece. Now I can simply call and print all kindes of labels, file cards, lists per location, lists per mineral class etc. etc. And the advantage - it is my data program and I have not to follow any ideas of strange coders.

I fully understand the problem which Don characterized but for me it is no problem anymore.

Rgds.

Uwe Ludwig

23rd Apr 2016 10:18 UTCJoel Dyer

Ah, Don: too bad you weren't running the completely free LibreOffice: It should work the same, regardless of Windows versions...this is one reason I use L.O. myself, even though I have a licence for Office 2010...don't even like the last-named version.

Uwe, your story about Lotus brings back memories from, long long ago, before my career in IT even started in 1995.

As a matter of fact, I had a customer a couple of months ago, whose well over ten years old PC with XP finally gave up its soul & deserves its Rest in Peace now.

Well, you know, the customer had (to my great astonishment!) important Lotus spreadsheets on his HDD. I managed to import them into OpenOffice, via a disk adapter, on the customer's new PC & everything was fine and handy :-)). Not all cases are happy like this & some extremely old MS Works files can pose insurmountable problems if one doesn't have install disks for, say, version 5 or 6 lying around somewhre :-D

Cheers,

23rd Apr 2016 14:46 UTCOwen Melfyn Lewis

Don,

After 60 years, I imaging you have redundant, duplicated or no longer wanted mineralogical optical test gear squirreled away. You also need to port your specimen catalogue and labelling system to a database system that should take you forward for another 20 years or more but don't want to face the requisite learning curve.

JD is a young, thrusting and impecunious mineralogist, desperate for more optical (and other?) test gear than he has and who also happens to be software engineer. There really ought to be a deal made in heaven somewhere in this for you both.

Just a stray thought, you understand..... I shall now take a long walk in the Spring air and leave you two gentlemen to devise some mutual betterment :)-D

P.S. Joel is also hungry for a copy of your book! ;-)

24th Apr 2016 06:16 UTCJoel Dyer

Hi Owen,

Thanks for your efforts :-), I sometimes help rock hounds in Finland out with IT stuff as well, if a suitable occasion arises, but I live pretty far away from the 3 different clubs (to the East, North and South) I belong to. Of course, remote help has been familiar to oneself since 1999, working as a Remote Support Analyst level II for Shell ISS in Manchester. (PS: I'm not a Software Engineer: if I were, I could well afford fiber optics :-) )

Oh, and Owen: your "poking me" to go out and get (nice but expensive!) fiber optic lighitng gear forced me to do some more experimentation. I'll stick in one photo here, just to remind us that experimentation and adaptation works for both IT and scope / photo work. There's even a polarisation filter inside this adaptation ;-) .

Cheers,

25th Apr 2016 01:38 UTCDana Morong

Years ago my father (since deceased) wanted me to finish up his genealogy. we looked at various programs and decided that they were all too inflexible for our needs, so we used a word-based common program. Good thing, too, as word programs can be converted. Later, after I had gotten curation of an old micromount collection, I got to thinking what if I used a database program and someone changed it, or it wasn't compatible with a new system. So I have used Word for most of my stuff in electronic form. (I did once make a file using a program on a spreadsheet and later found out that it wasn't compatible with anything else - it had been a cheapy gadget by Microsoft - so I had to retype it into the newer spreadsheet. I now like to keep a paper copy in case they try the same trick again. And I won't go for the new system - the last time the thing wore out and the guy put in a new system, the printer would not work with it, and I lost the ability to modify certain things in the old Word program (I had turned off a lot of the maddening gimmicks so that I could type in peace! Fortunately it kept what simple modifications I had made), and it also lost the ability to store technical words (such as mineral names) in spell-checker (I only use it when I want it, when I turn it on) so now I have to check everything when I do it) and it also lost the ability to get a picture out of storage and paste it into a document (so I fool the machine by pulling it out of the back-up memory stick!). Microsoft is trying to sell version 10, but I won't bite, even if free - it's sure to have new problems, to wreck what I have, almost like malware. I won't even tell them what version of Word I use as they will be sure to want to wreck it for me, to force me to buy something new that isn't reliable. It is not hitched to internet so it is hard for them to get at it! But I really appreciate those little memory sticks, for back-up, taking home stuff in pdf format, and storage.

Incidentally, I have come to believe that a label glued (or painted on, if large enough) the back of a specimen is better than just a number that refers to some file lost in some computer somewhere. Heirs will never look at a computer system, and unless the label is stuck on, they tend to remove them and then lose them! Make it really hard to remove the label!

25th Apr 2016 13:57 UTCOwen Melfyn Lewis

Dana Morong Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> .... Heirs will never look at a computer

> system, and unless the label is stuck on, they

> tend to remove them and then lose them! Make it

> really hard to remove the label!

In my case, they'd darned well better (but they know this). As a collector only of micromounts, thumbnails and cut gems, fixing any label to the specimen itself seems to me a really bad idea. I have enough trouble removing blu-tac used for mounting by some previous owner!

All my specimens are stored in identical boxes of 50 x 1 inch dia. circular polystyrene containers. The label goes on the underneath of the container, and carried the following information only:

- The unique catalogue number of the specimen contained.

- Mineral species or variety.

- The weight of the specimen to three decimal places. Should several specimens of the same sort all be removed together from their containers, this accurate weight ensures that the correct specimen is returned to each container. It is an invisible label an unique enough to tie each specimen to the label on the container and, hance, to all the data on it in my records.

All other information is carried in one of three databases for :

- Cut gems

- Rough/natural crystals

- Simulants and synthetics

Each of these databases is actually a spreadsheet work-book made up of nine hyperlinked spreadsheets that record all observations, calculations and determinations in respect of each specimen per one of the three types above. Two of these pages contain only hyperlinks and notes to entries in external databases (dir/subdir/subsubdir structure) of photo images and spectrometry graphs. A third page is an index to the basic 'login' data entry sheet for each specimen where each new specimen is first logged in and its ID number assigned. There are many hyperlinks between the basic data entry page and the other pages so that there is no repetitive typing (and consequently no room for transcription errors in copying information such as specimen ID number, species, variety, colour etc.) across to the other pages where detailed observations, calculations etc. are added to each specimen's record.

This suits me very well as a gemmologist who spends a deal of time on identification and only has a relatively few specimens of any one mineral variety. Were I a specialist collector of a few mineral species, I'd organise the structure differently but use the same principles. When I used to deal, I devised a different design of workbook with three pairs of spreadsheets, one pair for each of 'cut' 'rough' and 'synthetic' and each pair of sheets dealing separately with the purchase and sale of every item, including all the financials.

Though I have built simple data bases in Access - and before that in the Smart database, I have always found it preferable to build systems using a series of spreadsheets (Excel and Smart). It is only when building a system to cope with several thousand+ records that database systems like Access really come into their own. Workbooks/spreadsheets are for small-ish data sets. Give 'em half a million records to cope with and maybe 50+ fields per record... well, you really don't want to go there with spreadsheets :-D

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