Learning Center What is a mineral?The most common minerals on earth Information for Educators Mindat Articles The Elements The Rock H. Currier Digital Library Geologic Time

Minerals by Properties Minerals by Chemistry Advanced Locality Search Random Mineral Random Locality Search by minID Localities Near Me Search Articles Search Glossary More Search Options

The Mindat Manual Add a New Photo Rate Photos Locality Edit Report Coordinate Completion Report Add Glossary Item

Mining Companies Statistics Users Mineral Museums Clubs & Organizations Mineral Shows & Events The Mindat Directory Device Settings The Mineral Quiz

Photo Search Photo Galleries Search by Color New Photos Today New Photos Yesterday Members' Photo Galleries Past Photo of the Day Gallery Photography

Discussions

💬 Home 🔎 Search 📅 Latest

╳Discussions

💬 Home 🔎 Search 📅 Latest

Groups

Recent Images in Discussions

Techniques for CollectorsThinking of ways to clean a new find

7th Jul 2014 00:20 UTCRyan Allen

7th Jul 2014 02:55 UTCBob Harman

So I am not exactly sure I understand what you want to "clean". If it is the "cap" example in your last several pix, I would NOT use Super Iron Out as it will both damage most calcites and, in any case, I don't see any significant iron staining. And I would also NOT use hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid) as it will promptly dissolve the calcite and most other carbonates as well. A strong stream of plain water seems good enough for this example.

If you want to "clean" the material still in the ground in your first couple of pix, I think you had better extract a specimen first and also see if it is calcite as above.

Not sure what you want to accomplish or if I have been any help to you. CHEERS…..BOB

7th Jul 2014 03:01 UTCPhil M. Belley Expert

A lot of the material seems weathered (i.e., cannot be rescued). Some of it seems good: if you can get deep enough you could get "fresher" (pristine unweathered) crystals.

Sometimes clay/dirt gets stuck on calcite crystals. I have collected calcite specimens that could only be completely cleaned using an ultrasonic cleaner, which removed the very thin veneer of clay off the surface of the crystals. You could give that a try.

7th Jul 2014 05:20 UTCRyan Allen

BOB HARMAN Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So I am not exactly sure I understand what you

> want to "clean". If it is the "cap" example

> in your last several pix, I would NOT use Super

> Iron Out as it will both damage most calcites and,

> in any case, I don't see any significant iron

> staining. And I would also NOT use hydrochloric

> acid (muriatic acid) as it will promptly dissolve

> the calcite and most other carbonates as well. A

> strong stream of plain water seems good enough for

> this example.

> If you want to "clean" the material still in the

> ground in your first couple of pix, I think you

> had better extract a specimen first and also see

> if it is calcite as above.

>

> Not sure what you want to accomplish or if I have

> been any help to you. CHEERS…..BOB

Sorry BOB for not being crystal clear. The cap material was just to show how the weathered side looked much different from the freshly exposed material. Even under sw uv the weathered side was dull while the newly broken edge was quite bright. The 2 last pictures of the "extracted" material only lit up in places i had scrubbed and blasted with a pressure washer which ended up breaking the piece. I did not add a day light picture so here is what it looks like after ive used water...
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20140706_203530_8_bestshot.jpg

That is my least favorite specimen so i have no troubles doing destructive testing to see what works....

These others im keeping till i can figure out what works
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20140706_203422_3_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20140706_203401_5_bestshot.jpg

Id love to try an ultra sonic cleaner but im in the middle of nowhere bc and it would be several weeks before i could get my hands on one.

Think im gonna try the acid next guys..... I will let you know how it works for me. I dont care if they come out smaller than when they went in as long as they take on a more crystal like look.

7th Jul 2014 06:04 UTCRock Currier Expert

I wonder if it might be a feldspar rather than calcite. check it with a drop of acid and see if it bubbles or see if you can easily scratch it with a knife blade. If it is calcite cleaning with with HCl will give it a rounded polished looking effect which might be be make the specimens more attractive for garden rocks where I am sure some of it will end up. It would be safe to use iron out on it and that will remove the fine grained iron oxide minerals.

7th Jul 2014 18:02 UTCD Mike Reinke

Your find reminds me of Glenn Rhein's find, a bit. but good crystalline shapes don't need pure cleanness ,imho . A good trim helps too. "Less is more", and you can fuss more with the best that you do keep. As you mentioned, keeping it awhile to figure out what to do with it will help; There is stuff I tossed because I can't have a rock garden here, that I wish I could have kept, 'for review'.

7th Jul 2014 21:43 UTCGary Moldovany

Great find! I would try the Super Iron Out on a couple of experimental pieces that you don't care about, just to see what happens. Those look like iron stains to me. I have cleaned quite a bit of calcite in SIO and I have not experienced any damage to the calcite, just don't leave it in for any longer than is necessary. If it is calcite, pure muriatic acid will dissolve it for sure. You could also try a diluted 50% acid/water solution, just watch it, shouldn't take very long before you start seeing results. Good luck! If possible, could you give us a general locality where your find is?

8th Jul 2014 04:50 UTCRyan Allen

Heres an update guys... I got my hands on a jug of muriatic acid(31.45%) and some super iron out from the local hardware store today. I mixed the iron out @ just over a third of a cup per 1 gallon of water and in a separate container used the acid straight up out of the jug.

Here are the 2 specimens selected for super iron out
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140707_151350_6_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140707_151512_3_bestshot.jpg

Here is what they look like after 1 hour in super iron out solution
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140707_154618_4_bestshot.jpg

After almost 2 hours i took them out and left them in a big tub of water for another hour to neutralize

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140707_172426_1_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140707_172327_3_bestshot.jpg

Now the muriatic acid:

before:
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140707_151930_5_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140707_151852_2_bestshot.jpg

After 30 min in
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140707_154601_4_bestshot.jpg

After 45 min i removed and this is how they looked:
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140707_160225_8_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140707_160141_4_bestshot.jpg

Then i decided to dunk my least favorite larger specimen pictured before into the acid. It only fit half way. Actually turned out ok and makes a great piece to show what a great job the acid did. This was soaked for a full 60 min.

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140707_172715_4_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140707_172619_5_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140707_172536_5_bestshot.jpg

Now i must say it worked out but makes me question my ID.... There was almost no fizzle in either iron out or acid baths... I mean it bubbled a little bit when i first put it in but maybe 20 little bubble came off in total. Not the foaming fizzle i was expecting...

8th Jul 2014 05:01 UTCRyan Allen

gary moldovany Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Good luck! If possible,

> could you give us a general locality where your

> find is?

This is in the rocky mountain trench. North of the mica dam bc canada(headwaters of the columbia river). I was also in the help ID section trying to get some id on another specimen i found at the same location. May have some relevance here :

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20140704_095807_1_bestshot.jpg

And at 10x
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20140706_165156_1_bestshot.jpg

9th Jul 2014 21:08 UTCRyan Allen

I cleaned up a few more specimens in the acid bath today... Was too quick to want to take pictures and pulled them out of the rinse early. They immediately started to weep bright yellow tears as they dried :( . Lucky for me a quick 5 second dip in super iron out removed the stains completely. I didnt realize that the rinse times would be so long. Am almost tempted to put the specimens in a large onion bag and hang them in a white water mountain stream for a week. At first i liked the muriatic acid way better than super iron out. After leaving some samples in iron out over night they came out almost as good as the muriatic acid samples without all the yellow staining tears.

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140708_151424_4_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140708_151310_8_bestshot.jpg

9th Jul 2014 22:04 UTCKen Doxsee

I strongly recommend a good soak in sodium bicarbonate solution (baking soda in water) to neutralize the acid. Watch out for aggressive bubbling at first! --Ken

9th Jul 2014 23:43 UTCWayne Corwin

Ryan

First soak the rocks in water for a couple hrs,,,, before you soak them in acid or SIO, it

helps keep the acids out of the inside of the rocks, makes nuturalizing easier after.

After soaking in acid,, rinse the rock good under running water, then soak in fresh water

for 1/2 hr, change the water and add some baking soda, soak for a couple hrs, then change

the water again, let soak a few hrs more. Then rinse good under running water.

For SIO you can do the same thing, but leave out the baking soda.

10th Jul 2014 01:09 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

A good rule of thumb is to neutralize for as long as it was in acid.

10th Jul 2014 02:51 UTCJoshua Frank

Hi Ryan,

I am just a novice field collector and novice of cleaning specimens, so everyone can rebuke me if my advice is off base!.

In my humble opinion , you gotta rinse and saturate that specimen before you subject it to the bombardment of SIO or acid. I use distilled water...am I right forum? (tap water is full of minerals where I live, probably where you are too) and soak for at least 1 day. Then do your testing. After that, let sit, rinse, neutralize lightly repeatedly, and change water often. Clean the bucket or vessel every time. Where I am, its so dry sometimes, that if I use my well water the minerals in the water show up as specimens dry, or so I think. It may take longer than you think to neutralize the SOI or acid you have subjected the specimen too. Maybe you are already doing this.

Looks like you have some crystallized minerals in your specimens and that is awesome (that is my passion) apart from my career. I have ruined some perhaps "mediocre worthy field collected specimens" doing this. I prefer a slow approach at cleaning things I have found. Let the excitement of the find quiet down a bit. Wrap it up, put it away and take it out again just for a day or too. I find that when I look at it again, I am seeing it in a new way. Getting the ultrasound cleaner is also good advice. Excited to see you find stuff in any case!

Hope my experience helps or inspires you in some way,

Best,

Joshua

12th Jul 2014 19:01 UTCRyan Allen

This is really great info guys :) A really big thanks to the mindat crew this last week for all your help.

I really should have presoaked in hindsight as im still getting yellow staining after 4 full days. Ive tried a soda water solution and a garden lime slurry to neutralize. What ever the green mineral is in these specimens it sure likes acid and even after a 24hr neutralization and another 48 hours rinse the yellow keeps on coming.

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140712_103911_2_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140712_103839_8_bestshot.jpg

Distilled water might be the key but its painfully expensive here as i live in a very small remote mountain town (700ppl) with great water so the only distilled i can find is in 1 gallon jugs and its tourist priced as is the baking soda. The nearest wallmart is a full 5 hour drive return trip so i will have to add it too my list. All in all im very happy with my first acid experiments. After spending the last 5 years scrubbing and sandblasting specimens with limited success i can honestly say "muraitic acid baby...where have you been all my life"

12th Jul 2014 23:41 UTCBob Harman

RYAN , A large part of your problem here is the general type of specimens that you are trying to clean. As I stated shortly after your first above posting and PHIL B stated above: these are corroding specimens that will just not clean up well. You need to have a cleaning plan and realistic expectations.

Many specimens are beyond good cleaning and just look artificial after cleaning attempts. Many specimens grossly looking like they have been obviously cleaned up have then probably been over-cleaned and largely worthless for either display or money to most other collectors or exhibitors.

The trick in cleaning up most worthwhile specimens is to make them look fresh and bright, but NOT cleaned or otherwise tampered with. From your pictures, yours just look overcleaned and artificially tampered with. NOT A GOOD RESULT IN MY BOOK AS LESS CLEANING AND PROPER CLEANING IS BETTER. Also, don't try to clean or expect too much from lo end specimens as they will never look much better….just tampered with. Acid…..neutralizing followed by acid …..neutralizing etc etc is just tampering with the specimens and NOT improving them in my book CHEERS……BOB

13th Jul 2014 08:34 UTCRyan Allen

Well first off im very glad i didnt use quality specimens for my first attempt at using iron out and acid. My cleaning plan consisted of not getting acid on me. Im all alone out here in the sticks mineral wise and the only way ill learn is to try and experiment. You see im not going out day after day to named locals digging with others threw tailings or already picked over grounds. Im not interested in buying minerals that were more than likely dug by a kid that lives in that hole. I head out in a small boat on a huge reservoir thats deemed so dangerous most insurance outfits will not cover your boat. Or i strap a rifle on my back and head into the deepest darkest bush i can find. And when i find something its important to me cause there is a 99% chance that no man has stepped there before and ive worked very hard to get to these places and expose these minerals. Maybe 1 in 500 hundred trips will produce a spot that has grade A stuff waiting for me. Until i hit that spot i have learn as much as i can with what im finding now. Thats why i come to mindat. I get great help from pros even though my stuff may seem of poor quality to them. Im grateful for the all the participation i receive except yours BOB HARMAN. Im not sure if your trying to come off negative and arrogant but im going to have to ask you to refrain on commenting on my future posts as your comments are not helpful and make a rookie want to get out of minerals instead of in. We all cant have top dollar stuff.

Well on that note these minerals did not come out like i had hoped but the acid sure made some awesome (to me) specimens for my sw UV display.

13th Jul 2014 17:42 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

Ryan, I'm sorry you found Bob's post negative. I'm sure he had no such intention. I and most others have found Bob's posts knowledgeable and helpful. By asking him to refrain from posting on your threads you are depriving yourself of the advice he can give from many years of field collecting. I wish you good hunting and the best of luck.

13th Jul 2014 20:39 UTCBob Harman

RYAN, I am sorry you interpreted my post as "negative". It really was meant to be constructive advice since you posted asking for advice on cleaning your specimens. I was not going to respond further, but since ROB WOODSIDE correctly (in my opinion) interpreted my actual intent (THANK YOU ROB !!). I will again reiterate my points. Hopefully in a more positive tone for you.

Any field collector…..and I have been one for over 20 years now…. over time and experience develops a philosophy of what he or she expects from their final cleaned and prepared mineral specimens……especially if they are to become displayable or of the quality to keep and show off to other collectors. Then there will become a realistic preparation plan for each collected specimen. This plan, in my opinion, should be individualized to each example and have realistic expectations that some examples will clean up really well and others just will never look so good. In my opinion, the final prepared specimen should not IMMEDIATELY look cleaned or otherwise tampered with when first viewed. It should look natural, fresh, bright and esthetically pleasing. Ideally, the viewer should have to ask you what was done to the specimen after it was collected to make it into its final condition. If the viewer immediately sees an example that has obviously been cleaned or otherwise treated, then, in my opinion, that is a negative first impression. In other words LESS IS BETTER.

So I will leave it at that. Good luck to you in your field collecting and learning experience of preparing your specimens. BTW, I believe you collected in Western Canada??……well if that is correct, when I lived in Spokane, Washington in the 1970s, I collected several times in the Nelson and Trail areas of SE British Colombia. CHEERS…….BOB

13th Jul 2014 21:15 UTCRyan Allen

Rob, This was not an answer i just blurted out do to a single post i didnt agree with. Ive been told on several occasions by members here that a particular material is not worth collecting and thats great! I dont want to fill my limited space with stuff that isnt worth the gas or calories to collect. Some times i find new material that may be of poor quality that i just want to experiment with. Its not hard to tell that this stuff is not premium collection quality when compared to a picture of some mindat grade A. The long winded reply that dodged my question about schorl being worth collecting that turned into a post about leaving the "crap" in the field and not collecting too much junk was also not needed. Finally the fact that he indirectly used the stuff i had recently posted in his thread "What really happens to many of the specimens pictured on Mindat threads?" as examples of the crappiest stuff that should find its way into a garden somewhere. I may be just an uneducated amateur but i honestly do the best i can with what ive got. And i surely dont need a purest putting down everything i try and learn about by posting here. That was not a post made in a quick forum rage moment. I pondered it while fishing and still felt the same way when i read it again with fresh eyes. Its unfortunate but i meant what i said......

13th Jul 2014 23:46 UTCAlex Earl 🌟 Expert

Hey Ryan, i have myself gone out and collected some calcite crystals that have had similar problems. I know this might sound bad but I tried using some vinegar, yes vinegar to clean off some of the dirty things on them. I tested a couple and found it wasn't making the crystals cloudy and tried it on some others I wished to clean. They came out really nice and almost free from the crud that was all over them. If you want you can try this, but I would highly suggest you use a couple of pieces to test on before you use this method on pieces you really like.

14th Jul 2014 06:26 UTCRyan Allen

Alex i will give this a try when i go back for some more specimens. That area is a no go zone till spring unless i want to dive for it now. I cant wait to get that big cap covering off that pocket and really hoping that the deeper i get in the better it gets. After seeing the test pieces reaction to acid (nil) and the fact steel will not scratch it im thinking its not calcite. Its all a learning experience. On my next batch i will be sure and trim everything up first as placing large fractured specimens in acid was a bad idea. I will also presoak for a several hours beforehand to try and mitigate the amount of acid that reaches the deepest cracks and crevices. Vinegar sounds like it would be worth a shot :-) The 12 hour SOI soak seamed to have the best results but the acid cleaned stuff shows up the best under sw uv. Im not done experimenting yet i just ran out of material.

14th Jul 2014 17:40 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

Ryan, Thanks for the clarification. On reading your posts I get the impression that you are an enthusiastic amateur, but with your equipment have been interested for some time. Finding things in unexplored places, possibly with economic value, is really what interests you and you are figuring out how to clean up your finds.

Since at least the 70's mineral collectors have been moving to prettier and more aesthetic crystallised specimens and tend to make the assumption that is the only thing anyone should want and any interest in cleaning is an attempt to produce such. Hence the caveat to try a cleaning technique on something you don't mind losing before trying it on something you hope will turn out to be great. While it is difficult to collect a rare killer specimen which most collectors assume to be the goal, your chances are greatly improved by collecting localities known to have produced them. Your desire to collect off the beaten path indicates to me that you have as much fun looking as you do finding. I'm sure like all of us you'd love to find gorgeous specimens, but that is not your primary goal and there's nothing wrong with that. Attitudes change with time and experience, but that is irrelevant. The point is to learn about the world and have fun doing it. That is what you seem to be doing. Keep it up!!!

14th Jul 2014 22:44 UTCAlex Earl 🌟 Expert

I feel the same way as Rob, I think you should keep doing what you love. I go out and collect once in a while, and when I do I promise I don't find Museum quality specimens (albeit I wish I had!). With me I love going out and finding something that not one single person has ever touched or seen for that matter and nobody can tell me it is junk because I think it looks great myself. I realize that others may not like what I have found but to me all that matters is I have something that makes me smile and have memories of when I went out and collected it by myself or with a friend.

Best regards, Alex

15th Jul 2014 02:04 UTCRyan Allen

Rob, Your impression is very correct. Ive been interested for a very long time. I spent a full decade or more living in edmonton working in and out of fort mcmoney and taking a 5 year apprenticeship as oil field heat treatment tech. During this time I had very little time off and could only dream of the things im currently doing. Several times a year i would head out for a 4 day trip that usually left me half dead. Trying to do too much with too little time. Spending a decade drooling over others finds will plant a seed that can only be grown by putting ones boots to the dirt. Having very little time and an oilfield pocket book did let me gather up some good gear though. In this trade you can literally make money that would dwarf a doctors wage the only trade off is you have to give up your old age years. Its play now pay later due to exposure to a multitude of hydrocarbon nastys. The average guy in my trade that actually makes it to retirement age draws no more than 16 monthly pension checks before they plant him the ground. So at aged 33 and not expected to make 65 i decided a major change was required. Sold the house in edmonton and moved to valemount bc. Bought a small house in town and 20 acres of mountainside bliss of hwy 5 in a small hamlet called albreda. With the land and all my toys paid for i have only a 258 dollar a month morgage + food/utilitys. This works out to be around 8 weeks a year i have to work. More if i want to buy extras. So these last 3(ish) years ive been making up for lost time. I mark an X on the calender every time i head out fishing or mineral collecting and last years calender had just shy of 250 X's on it. For the last 2 years and hopefully the next 2 im am pounding the ground as hard as possible looking for places that have good potential for minerals and metals. We all know that finding a museum grade piece just laying float or on surface bedrock is almost nil. Im looking for potential areas to stake in the future and possibly work with machinery. This is a great little town but its dying. When the american housing market crashed so did the lumber market which was the income for most here. Over half have left and the remaining people are desperate. So thats why i have to be so vague on my location descriptions. If word got out i found something or i staked a claim it would draw much attention and overnight all the area around my claim would be claimed by others. This would be fine if your sure you staked the right spot but would be very painful to find out the honey hole was actually on the adjacent cell block that blow joe just claimed because he heard about a local find even though hes never hounded a day in his life. There is more untapped wilderness here than i thought existed and if anything its very humbling to get skunked as many times as i have. Around here one goes by mother natures rules in hunting minerals. Winter is strictly lakeside as the water level lowers. Spring is time to check out mountain drainages before the underbrush and evil evil devils club comes up. High summer its time to head above the treeline cruising bedrock looking for pegmatites and fall i head back to alberta to earn my keep. So thats me in a nut shell and i fully intend to have a killer collection by the time its my turn to be planted. The biggest problem i have is there are so few locals around here it makes IDing anything much more difficult. This whole area is more of a heinz 57 (mix of everything) than a uniformed place geology wise. Almost anyplace around here you've got mica and garnet the rest is up to me to figure out. Im looking to buy an older mid sized excavator to flatten off some building sites on my land starting this year. I figure it will take a couple years to do all the work i want to do. After that ill own an excavator that will be needing something to do. I sure hope ive found worth digging by then!

Thank you for your good wishes and your help.

Ryan

15th Jul 2014 02:13 UTCRyan Allen

Alex, There is something to be said about a self collected specimen :-) . Im jealous as i wish i had friends that were into mineral prospecting. My buddies are mostly oil patch guys that are far more interested in expensive toys and trophy women than picking up rocks. Its not that i dont force them to come out once in awhile cause i do. They make great helpers and seem genuinely interested as long as i keep my bear rifle pointed at them lol. Bend down to pick something and they have all dissipated to another local. Too bad its the local bar:)-D Rock hounding is not for everyone but its horribly contagious so i try and plant as many seeds with friends as i can.

Good luck in your future adventures!

8th Feb 2015 16:21 UTCTim Jokela Jr

Looks like you have a remarkable pocket there, the kind that most collectors will only dream about seeing.

Personally, I'd cease worrying about cleaning the stuff. You need to camp at the site and get the thing opened up.

Maybe some nice beryl, or tourmaline, or at least some smoky quartz, but you have to dig it out asap.

Don't pack any more stuff out until you know what's good, and don't do anything else until it's cleaned out.

Pay attention to the small stuff, too. Start using a low-power binocular microscope. You'll find that a single nice little TN of bertandite, phenakite, helvite, or rare earth will be worth far more than five tons of unsalable feldspar.

Have fun, play safe, and please keep us posted!!!

8th Feb 2015 18:15 UTCOlivier Langelier

I've had bad experiences with leaving specimen in HCL for too long. Sometimes

it seeps into cracks and leaves yellow iron oxyde stains that just wont wash away

31st Mar 2015 00:07 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

Hello Ryan,

To me it looks like what you have are feldspar crystals not calcite ( a simple hardness test or acid will tell). Often they cannot be cleaned because the rust is embedded in the surface and protected from the chemicals. When you use acid or iron out often rust will reform when you dry the sample especially with acid even if you neutralize the acid. The only way that I know how to prevent the rust from reforming is to soak the sample in pure methyl hydrate for a while ( as a final stage after water) before you let it dry. The alcohol absorbs all the water and rust cannot form without water. Before cleaning your samples I would examine them under a microscope. When dealing with weathered specimens, sometimes the rare secondary minerals look like nothing special until you get them under the scope. Of course if you are not interested in micro material then don't worry about it. Best of luck.

31st Mar 2015 07:17 UTCRyan Allen

Wow thanks for the imput guys! Unfortunately im not into micro yet. I would like to be but am wondering how steep the learning curve is to try and self teach. As for my acid/SIO experiments i learned this before i ran out of unaltered material; The white (feldspar) xtls seem to be resistant to acid . The green material loves the acid and acts almost like a sponge, it becomes very pores kind of like a pumice when exposed to acid for more than a few hours and then bleeds yellow tears for eternity. Neither material seems to be affected by the SIO so the long term soak produced the nicest material. Am not sure if the large cap plate i loosened last year fell off during high water this winter. Ive found a way to drive much closer to this location than previously thought. It still requires a healthy boat ride on bad water but its doable. Mostly my problem will be time this year. I will be working away from home till second week of april and am committed to what might be the best black morel crop known to date starting may 1st. So that leaves only a 2 week window to get this spot cleaned out. I will probably get a quick 4 day excursion at best before the water claims it again. Rather than do another quick rookie smash and grab ive decided to wait till i can find someone who has a better knowledge of identification to join me and show me how its done. So if anyone in mindat land is interested in an excursion to a truly wild place for 3-4 days of rustic tent camping and more minerals than you can shake a stick at then i can ensure safe passage and even supply camping gear if required. If any of my spots turn out to be winners id be more than willing to split a mineral claim 50/50. One needs to be able to walk 100 yards on uneven ground and be able to withstand the elements for a few days but the constitution of an ox is not required. I supply the off road vehicle/boat/gas and you supply the big brain. Id be willing to make the 8hr round trip to pick up the right individual at airport in Edmonton or kamloops if required. I cant promise anything other than you will have enough good samples to cover your travel. If this particular area is not a producer i have some other spots within 20 miles to fill in the gaps. If any of this sounds interesting shoot me a pm.

Thanks and please overlook any spelling and grammar issues here as im trying to write this on my cell phone.

Ryan

8th Apr 2015 22:20 UTCJohn Oostenryk

Haven't read the whole thread-(will tonight) but just wanted to say: keep looking and having fun! The adventure is an experience, and ya gotta hunt to find anything!

You are finding some cool stuff~ not TOP- but I'd bring it home for sure if I had the transport.

Stuff only gets left behind when its overweight => nonportability;)-

Your processing is going ok- research and questions aside, you have to learn by experience at some point- which is what I see in the portion I read. Carry on!

As to HCl and permeability/neutralization... If you think you have soaked and resoaked(change the water a couple times- with aprox 5:1 greater vol of water than the object. If then as drying- you see that yellow? back into the water... I get that when etching calcite and dolomite off of barites in geodes. Basically the qtz/chalcedony is like a sponge(porous) and it takes time to get that back out of those micro spaces.

The weathered/fluid etched materials you are cleaning have that micro porous surface/structure too(to a degree) so will slowly bleed out the introduced fluid(hcl). No worry, just takes time.

Personally, teh stuff cleaned up nice for what it is. So it is not shiny per se, but it IS clean. Cool! I liked teh lil epidotes on the one piece(if that is what they are~) :)

Anyhoo-

Look forward to hearing more on your situ. Maybe drop me a PM when ya post-I'm an irregular viewer, lol.

Rock On as the opportunity presents!

Good luck on the specimen hunting and the morels too:)

Best Regards,

~JO:)

22nd Apr 2015 20:03 UTCRyan Allen

Made my first trip of the year to this spot. The road access is still limited because of avalanches. Boat travel is slower in the small recon boats but they make beaching a breeze and can be completely pulled from the water with ease in bad weather. I arrived in the late afternoon and decided to spend the last few hours of daylight scoping out the immediate area. About 25ft south of my main spot i found a vertical band of rock that looked dull but a boulder had rolled down and knocked a large chunk off and the unweathered material looks promising. I managed some good hand samples and some pyrite. I did find one nice sample and im glad i took a pic and a close up because i totally destroyed it trying to take it out and my loop fell out of my shirt pocket into the lake when pushing the boat off so unfortunately its the only close up of the trip lol.

[URL=http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/media/The%20Lake/20150421_114533.jpg.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150421_114533.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/media/The%20Lake/20150420_180318.jpg.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150420_180318.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/media/The%20Lake/20150413_135752.jpg.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150413_135752.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/media/The%20Lake/20150413_135508.jpg.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150413_135508.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

The first thing i noticed about my main xtl area is the large cap i had loosened the year before had fallen revealing the largest xtls i have seen of this type but alas they are pretty badly weathered.

[URL=http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/media/The%20Lake/20150420_180224.jpg.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150420_180224.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/media/The%20Lake/20150420_180440.jpg.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150420_180440.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/media/The%20Lake/20150420_180519.jpg.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150420_180519.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

The area is much larger than i thought. It consists of the weathered portion which is where i directed most of my attention this trip and the solid plate cover which is about 3-4X the size of the weathered stuff. The solid cap has only a few holes and is dense green followed my this super hard cap material totaling over 15 inches thick. Was almost too much for my 6lb hammer. To my amazement a larger hole in the solid plate side showed that there are multiple layers of xtls up to six feet down from the weathered stuff ive been working on. It suddenly dawned on me that this is going to be a long term project. With simple hand tools it will be several seasons before i find out whats deeper down the rabbit hole:-) I found a layer that looks like black/brown sand thats been roasted together about 2inchs thick. It contains tiny gemmy well formed green xtls but you will have to wait till i can get another 10X loop for the pics. Anyway here is some pics and couple short vids of what i was up too.

[URL=http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/media/The%20Lake/20150421_114810.jpg.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150421_114810.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/media/The%20Lake/20150421_121400.jpg.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150421_121400.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/media/The%20Lake/20150421_122342.jpg.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150421_122342.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/media/The%20Lake/20150421_124232.jpg.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150421_124232.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/media/The%20Lake/20150421_124241.jpg.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150421_124241.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/media/The%20Lake/20150421_125017.jpg.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150421_125017.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/media/The%20Lake/20150421_125024.jpg.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150421_125024.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

http://vid864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150420_181526.mp4

http://vid864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20150420_182328.mp4

25th Apr 2015 09:14 UTCRock Currier Expert

The specimens look to have suffered a lot of weathering and I rather doubt that you will be able to do much more than remove the iron staining.

Mindat.org is an outreach project of the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy, a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization.
Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2024, except where stated. Most political location boundaries are © OpenStreetMap contributors. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters. Founded in 2000 by Jolyon Ralph.
Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us / DMCA issues - Report a bug/vulnerability Current server date and time: April 27, 2024 03:22:25

Go to top of page