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Generalmassive copyright infringement

6th Dec 2016 08:28 UTCWolfgang Hampel 🌟 Expert

Hi all,


I have just come accross this site Rockstone where - much to my surprise - I have not only found one of my pictures featured here on Mindat but also hundreds of other copyright protected pictures from Mindat. No credit is given, neither to Mindat, nor the respective authors of the photographs.


The site is run by German mining analyst Stephan Bogner, based in Zurich, Switzerland.


Personally, I have nothing against the idea that any of my images are used elsewhere as long as I get asked beforehand and a copyright notice is given in the text. Quite a few journals (printed and online), as well as exhibitions and others have done so in the past and I have always been happy to grant permission free of charge.


What really annoys me the most in this case is the fact, that in the German Disclaimer he writes that:


“All contents (texts as well as tables, graphs, images & charts) are copyright protected“

(Original: “Sämtliche Inhalte (sowohl Texte als auch Tabellen, Grafiken, Bilder & Charts) sind urheberrechtlich geschützt)


I would call this a „hostile copyright takeover“. What are your thoughts about this?

6th Dec 2016 09:16 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager

Hi Wolfgang


I just took a quick look at the site and noticed several of Rob Lavinsky's photos had been used (I simply recognised them). What I also noticed was that there were at least 3 photos of my own specimens - photos that I had taken.


I certainly had not been asked permission.


I also note that there are several articles with such photos.


I will try and investigate further.


Cheers


Keith

6th Dec 2016 09:23 UTCPeter Trebilcock Expert

Hi Wolfgang


A quick browse of the site shows several of my pictures which are copyright, am I sure? , absolutely as they still have my catalog number on a couple of them, I will show them to a mineral collecting friend who is also a top lawyer who specializes in this type of breach and get his opinion.

On one hand I am quite proud that he thought my pics were good enough to include but a little disappointed with his lack of common courtesy.

Regards Peter.

6th Dec 2016 09:26 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

I would suggest that every poster on Mindat looks on this site.

I found a photo of a specimen in my collection and I didn't receive any demand of use.


Thanks Wolfgang.

6th Dec 2016 10:05 UTCWolfgang Hampel 🌟 Expert

If it was at least an educational / non commercial site, but this Rockstone Research site is 100% commercial and he claims to have the rights on all the images.


I don't know too much about copyright laws in your respective countries, but in Germany there are quite a few lawyers ("Abmahnanwälte" / "cease-and-desist lawyers") specialised in this type of copyright infringement. As far as I know, it does not take much effort and a violator of copyrights has to pay in the range of € 600 - € 1000 per image. I am seriously considering contacting one of these lawyers, and, if I win the case I would be happy to donate the compensation to Mindat.

6th Dec 2016 10:21 UTCRui Nunes 🌟 Expert

I found eleven photos of mine and I also did not receive any authorization request...

Rui


Edit: in a second visit I found fifteen!

6th Dec 2016 10:53 UTCFrank Craig

I haven't looked at this site yet (I definitely will), but I don;t take this sort of thing lightly. Individuals who have found thier photographs on the site without permission (make sure mindat didn't give permission) should contact the web master immediately and 'request' those photos be removed. The web master can then submit a request for permission to use the photographs (It would be up to the individual whether or not to grant the request) I would also consider legal action - depending on what the photos were used for (ie advertising or illustraions) and/or if the web master contests your claim.

6th Dec 2016 11:03 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

"make sure mindat didn't give permission" - We can't. The copyright belongs to the photographer unless they make it public domain or creative commons.


They have copied the photos to their website.

6th Dec 2016 12:24 UTCBruce Cairncross Expert

Out of curiosity I went to the Rockstore site (English translation) to see if any of my photos are there and I don't see any mineral photos on the home page nor any link to photos (unless I'm missing something). Has this site perhaps cottoned on to the Mindat copyright discussion and removed all the pictures?

6th Dec 2016 12:31 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

If you go to the link in the first message you will see the page. I think they may not have translated that page.

6th Dec 2016 12:35 UTCWolfgang Hampel 🌟 Expert

Hello Bruce,


The photos with captions are only available in the German version, his "research" is mainly meant for the German speaking investor community. I think he did not see the need to translate all (back) into English.


Wolfgang

6th Dec 2016 13:26 UTCBruce Cairncross Expert

Thanks Wolfgang/David: I accessed the original German home page and saw the mineral pictures. Seems that my Mindat images escaped the plagiarist!

6th Dec 2016 13:55 UTCJohn R. Montgomery 🌟 Expert

Thanks Bruce for asking the English version question... I was going nuts trying to find the page!

A quick run through and I saw A David K.Joyce photo of a forsterite specimen off Mindat.


John

6th Dec 2016 14:47 UTCHenry Minot 🌟 Expert

I just did a quick run through of the site and saw several of my photos. I most certainly did not give this guy permission to use them and am quite annoyed...


Henry

6th Dec 2016 14:56 UTCJeff Weissman Expert

Thank you Wolfgang for bringing this to our attention. If you need specific action from myself, please let me know. I could send the guy an e-mail, but I doubt that will have an effect.


I spotted at least 12 of my images, including several POTD, and many more that I recognized from Mindat. When asked, I usually give permission for non-commercial or academic use (I will sometimes ask for a small fee for for-profit endeavors). Certainly, this was not the case here, and I doubt I would have given permission for commercial use such as this without further discussion.

6th Dec 2016 15:11 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

I've had some experience with intellectual property theft of my teaching materials. Most time the web site owner will ignore requests to cease and desist, but you may be able to go after the web site hosting company. Of course the hosting company will say they are not responsible, but have your lawyer all their lawyer and see what happens.

6th Dec 2016 15:20 UTCDouglas Merson 🌟 Expert

I found one of mine, a baryte from the Rock Candy Mine in British Columbia.

6th Dec 2016 15:27 UTCBob Harman

I have a slightly different take on this.


Firstly, let me emphatically state that I fully agree with the posters stating that it appears to be copyright infringement.


But, the real problem, to me, is any discussions going along with the pictures.

For example, if a picture of a mineral specimen were shown and the accompanying comments were something like: "This is a great example of mineral ZZZ from XXX mine well worth looking for blah, blah, blah", I would not be too upset. The picture AND THE DISCUSSION would potentially enhance both my collection and value of the piece.

On the other hand, if THE DISCUSSION of the pictured specimen said something like: "This is a low end example not worthy of display etc, blah, blah, blah. I would be most seriously upset as it disparages my collection and potentially lowers any monetary value.


So, for me, the copyright infringement might be in any disparaging discussion of the pictured piece rather that than just the usurped picture per se. CHEERS.....BOB

6th Dec 2016 15:49 UTCDebbie Woolf Manager

It even has one of mine :-)

6th Dec 2016 15:58 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

I usually give permission when somebody ask but if he don't, I ask to remove my pic. Just a matter of reciprocal courtesy too.


It would be less annoying if, when clicking on the pic, it opens in Mindat. But this does not.

6th Dec 2016 16:51 UTCMark Heintzelman 🌟 Expert

Thanks Wolfgang for pointing this out. Yes, after already finding five of mine, I'm done looking . . . the guy is a thief, and a wholesale one at that.


I will also join the complaint list . .no permission was ever requested with me either, and I'm not sure I would have for this particular project (plenty of good field books out there).


But despite any otherwise good intentions, he has stolen a lot of hard work and years worth of effort, all of which had been contributed to the efforts HERE for this purpose.

None of us made this effort for this "rockstone" site, and likely many of us would not have, so yes I am pretty unhappy about this. The level of arrogance and/or ignorance is jarring.


MRH

6th Dec 2016 16:58 UTCJohn Betts

It is very easy to shut down a copyright infringing web site. Because the host company (where the server is located) is equally responsible for the copyright infringement, they will quickly remove the site if requested.


Search "Whois" for the domain, find the host company, and send them an email with evidence of where the original content was first posted. It is not uncommon for the site to disappear within a day.


Facebook also has a simple process for infringement claims at: https://www.facebook.com/help/contact/634636770043106


That being said, it appears this site is for educational purposes, which is a good thing. He does not appear to be making money from it.

6th Dec 2016 17:00 UTCSteve Stuart Expert

I found at least four of my images on this Rockstone site, all published without asking for my permission. Sign me up for any group legal action being planned. My images include a fayalite from Coso Springs, CA; spessartine garnet from Mont Saint-Hilaire, red zircon from Pakistan, and amesite from Russia. I'll keep looking!

6th Dec 2016 17:02 UTCSteve Stuart Expert

The link to the Rockstone site seems to be disabled as of a few minutes ago!

6th Dec 2016 17:18 UTCScott Rider

It does appear something is changing, the website link in the very first post isn't working for me. But I was able to view the "main" part of that website. I couldn't find the images in question, perhaps they have been contacted (they as in either hosting company, or the original poster)...

6th Dec 2016 17:19 UTCMark Heintzelman 🌟 Expert

Agree with John, it seems his effort is for educational purposes. but frankly it's an effort he could have, should have made here by joining mindat. Instead he chose to steal intellectual property for his own webpage. No, unacceptable . . .sorry.


A mindat field guide is NOT such a bad idea, for quick reference or general educational purposes on the subject, especially for the kids. This is a fairly daunting site for those with beginning interest on the subject, and frankly, if I had the time to initiate an effort, I would have booked this subject myself.


MRH

6th Dec 2016 17:47 UTCMaggie Wilson Expert