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Improving Mindat.orgAmphibole Group Errata

15th Dec 2006 03:42 UTCAlan Plante

Hi All


In going through the Amphibole Group pages to try to update my list of species I've found a number of minor things in them that could use some attention. I'm going through them more-or-less alphabetically, so I will post a quasi-alphebetical sequence of errata messages to this thread as I go along.


I note that most (all?) of the species pages have the recent paper by Hawthorne & Oberti (Can. Min. 44: 1-21 (2006)) listed as a reference. I think that this paper would be best listed only on the Amphibole Group page, since it does not really provide data on current species in the group. (It is a "conceptual" paper - noting problems and pluses with present research methodologies and the classification scheme presently in force, and posing some possible solutions - while asking for further input from the mineralogical community. It does NOT propose new species, discredit current ones, or redefine them. It is NOT a new, IMA approved, classification - it just discusses issues.) There is a problem where it is the only reference sited for a species, in that its mere citation would seem to suggest to anyone who has not read it that it provides validation for the species - which it does not. Those species need citations of the papers which validate them.


Another question arises when a species is noted as "Approved" but the date of approval is not stated. In some cases it is clear that the paper validating the species is not listed, and in other cases it is not clear whether or not the validating paper is cited. The designation "Approved" should always be accompanied by the date of approval, and the paper announcing the approval should always be cited. (It might be best if the citation appeared following the "Approved" designation, on the same line.)


As I go through the species and type them up below I will also include those for which the Mindat validation processes is completed, noting them to be "Okay" - meaning that no work needs to done on them in this regards. (Although this does not necessarily mean the entire page is complete and without fault: Missing data is another issue that needs to be addressed, wherever possible.)


I will present the information on each species as follows:


1) Species name (as it appears in Mindat)


2) Approval/Validitity Status (as it appears in Mindat.)


3) Date of approval (as it appears in Mindat.)


4) My notes regarding each species, in brackets, thusly: "<....>"


Information not appearing in brackets is Mindat information. Information appearing in brackets are my notes.


I hope someone can take the bull by the horn and upgrade the pages as needed.


Regards


Alan


PS: If I have time later, I will address the issue of missing information/data in the amphibole species paper.

15th Dec 2006 03:45 UTCAlan Plante

-Actinolite: Valid, grandfathered.


-Ferro-actinolite: Approved.


-Tremolite: Approved.


-Parvo-manganotremolite: Approved 2004

15th Dec 2006 03:50 UTCAlan Plante

- Anthophyllite: Valid, grandfathered.


- Ferro-anthophyllite: Approved.


- Proto-anthophyllite: Approved 2001.


- Proto-ferro-anthophyllite: Approved.


- Protomangano-ferro-anthophyllite: Approved.


- Sodicanthophyllite: Approved.


- Sodic-ferro-anthophyllite: Approved.

15th Dec 2006 03:56 UTCAlan Plante

- Arfvedsonite: Valid, grandfathered.


- Fluoro-magnesio-arfvedsonite: Approved.


- Fluoro-potassic-magnesio-arfvedsonite: Approved 1985.


- Magnesio-arfvedsonite: Approved.


- Potassicarfvedsonite: Approved 2003.


- "Potassic-magnesio-arfvedsonite":

15th Dec 2006 04:00 UTCAlan Plante

- Barroisite: Valid, grandfathered.


- Ferrobarroisite: Approved.


- "Aluminobarroisite":


- "Alumino-ferrobarroisite":


- "Ferribarroisite":


- "Ferri-ferrobarroisite":

15th Dec 2006 12:25 UTCJim Ferraiolo

It must be quiet in New England...

15th Dec 2006 12:34 UTCPeter Haas

ROFL

15th Dec 2006 16:09 UTCAlan Plante

LOL! :~}


We "hibernate" in our home offices, faces glued to the PC screen or TV.


:~}


Alan

15th Dec 2006 16:13 UTCAlan Plante

- "Cannilloite": Approved.


- Fluor-cannilloite: Approved.

15th Dec 2006 16:15 UTCAlan Plante

- Cummingtonite: Approved.


- Manganocummingtonite: Approved.

15th Dec 2006 16:16 UTCAlan Plante

- Dellaventuraite: Approved 2003.

15th Dec 2006 16:19 UTCAlan Plante

- Eckermannite: Valid, grandfathered.


- Ferro-eckermannite: Approved 1997.

15th Dec 2006 16:26 UTCAlan Plante

- Edenite: Approved.


- Ferro-edenite: Approved.


- Fluoro-edenite: Approved 2000.


- Parvomangano-edenite: Approved 2003.


- "Chloro-potassic-ferro-edenite": Not Approved, named amphibole.

15th Dec 2006 16:31 UTCAlan Plante

- Gedrite: Approved.


- Ferrogedrite: Approved.


- Sodic-ferrogedrite: Approved.


- Sodicgedrite: Approved.

15th Dec 2006 16:34 UTCAlan Plante

- Glaucophane: Valid, grandfathered.


- Ferroglaucophane: Approved.

15th Dec 2006 16:37 UTCAlan Plante

- Grunerite: Valid, grandfathered.


- Manganogrunerite: Approved.


- "Permanganogrunerite": Approved.

15th Dec 2006 17:57 UTCAlan Plante

- Hastingsite: Approved.


- Chloro-potassichastingsite: Approved 2005.


- Fluoro-magnesiohastingsite: Approved 2005.


- Fluoro-potassichastingsite: Approved 2005.


- Magnesiohastingsite: Approved.


- Potassic-magnesiohastingsite: Approved 2004.


- "Alkali-Hastingsite": Group name for Alkali-rich Hastingsitie varieties.


- "Ferrihastingsite":

15th Dec 2006 18:10 UTCAlan Plante

- Holmquistite: Approved.


- Ferroholmquistite: Approved 2004. <??? - Was this a redefinition that was approved in 2004? "Ferroholmquistite" is listed in Dana 8th (1997), so the name predates the stated approval date. (Actually, I think the status given is incorrect ; that it should probably be: "Valid, grandfathered" - but I'm not sure. It needs to be looked into.>

15th Dec 2006 21:08 UTCAlan Plante

- "Clinoholmquistite": Discredited 2004.


- Clinoferroholmquistite: Approved.


- Ferri-clinoholmquistite: Approved.


- Sodic-ferri-clinoferroholmquistite: Approved.


- "Ferri-clinoferroholmquistite": Approved.


- "Fluoro-clinoholmquistite": Not approved.


- "Fluor-sodic-clinoholmquistite": Not approved.

15th Dec 2006 21:09 UTCAlan Plante

- Kaersutite: Approved.


- Ferrokaersutite: Approved.

15th Dec 2006 21:13 UTCAlan Plante

- Ferrohornblende: Approved.

- Magnesiohornblende: Approved

15th Dec 2006 21:15 UTCAlan Plante

- Katophorite: Approved.


- Magnesiokatophorite: Approved.

15th Dec 2006 21:16 UTCAlan Plante

- Kornite: Approved.

15th Dec 2006 21:18 UTCAlan Plante

- Kozulite: Approved.

15th Dec 2006 21:21 UTCAlan Plante

- Leakeite: Approved.


- Fluoro-ferroleakeite: Approved.


- Potassicleakeite: Approved 2001.


- "Ferroleakeite": Approved.

15th Dec 2006 21:28 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Al,


Your write:


"I note that most (all?) of the species pages have the recent paper by Hawthorne & Oberti (Can. Min. 44: 1-21 (2006)) listed as a reference. I think that this paper would be best listed only on the Amphibole Group page, since it does not really provide data on current species in the group. (It is a "conceptual" paper - noting problems and pluses with present research methodologies and the classification scheme presently in force, and posing some possible solutions - while asking for further input from the mineralogical community."


This reference provides insight into the evolving evaluation of the amphiboles and is relevent to all species in the group since it presents the proposals for renaming/regrouping and addresses all current species. In the future, if and when IMA decides to adopt any or all of any proposal presented, this reference will provide insight into the reasons for any transition from the current names and groupings and whatever is in store for us in the future. (I entered the reference).


Chet

15th Dec 2006 21:47 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Thanks Alan & Co.


The Amphibole group may not be a glamorous part of our mineral world, but I appreciate the efforts in helping to clean it up.


Jolyon

15th Dec 2006 21:56 UTCAlan Plante

Chet


I used to feel like you do; but Joe Mandarino sort of beat it out of me when I was working on descriptions for the IEoM. He wanted references giving data on species on the species pages, and more general references on the Group pages - and that was that! :~}


He had a good point, and I finally came around to agreeing with him: When you are working on species you want data on the particular species at hand - not all the general info. When you are working on a Mineral Group, the specific data takes more of a back seat to general data. So from a literature research perspective it makes sense to organize the references that way.


Al

16th Dec 2006 04:33 UTCAlan Plante

- Nyboite: Approved.


- Ferrinyboite: Approved.


- Fluoronyboite: Approved 2002.


- "Ferronyboite":

16th Dec 2006 04:35 UTCAlan Plante

- Obertiite: Approved 1998.


- Ferri-ottoliniite: Approved 2001.

16th Dec 2006 04:37 UTCAlan Plante

- Pargasite: Approved.


- Chloro-potassicpargasite: Approved.


- Ferropargasite: Approved.


- Fluoropargasite: Approved 2003.


- Potassicpargasite: Approved.

16th Dec 2006 04:41 UTCAlan Plante

- Fluoro-sodicpedrizite: Approved 2004.


- Sodic-ferripedrizite: Approved.


- "Sodic-ferri-ferropedrizite": An alkali clinoamphibole in the glaucophane-eckermannite group.

16th Dec 2006 04:45 UTCAlan Plante

- Richterite: Valid, grandfathered.


- Ferrorichterite: Approved.


- Fluoro-potassicrichterite: Approved 1986.


- Fluororichterite: Approved 1994.


- "Potassicrichterite": Not Approved.

16th Dec 2006 04:47 UTCAlan Plante

- Riebeckite: Valid, grandfathered.


- Magnesioriebeckite: Approved.

16th Dec 2006 09:54 UTCJustin Zzyzx Expert

Amphiboles! My FAVORITE! Thanks for updating this section Alan! You Rock!

16th Dec 2006 16:39 UTCAlan Plante

Your favorites, Justin? - I know a good counselor who might be able to cure you of the maladay. "Might", I say, since amphibolitus is a tough one to cure...


:~}


Alan

16th Dec 2006 16:50 UTCAlan Plante

- Sadanagaite: Approved.


- Magnesiosadanagaite: Approved 2004.


- Potassic-ferrisadanagaite: Approved 1997.


- Potassic-magnesiosadanagaite: Approved.


- Potassic-sadanagaite: Approved.


- "Ferrisadanagaite":

16th Dec 2006 17:08 UTCAlan Plante

- Taramite: Approved.


- Alumino-magnesiotaramite: Approved 2006.


- Aluminotaramite: Approved 2006.


- Chloro-potassic-ferri-magnesiotaramite: Approved.


- Ferritaramite: Approved.


- Fluoro-alumino-magnesiotaramite: Approved 2006.


- Magnesiotaramite: Approved.


- "Ferri-magnesiotaramite":

16th Dec 2006 17:13 UTCAlan Plante

- Tschermakite: Approved.


- Aluminotschermakite: Approved.


- Ferritschermakite: Approved.


- Ferrotschermakite: Approved.


- "Ferri-ferrotschermakite":


- "Ferri-aluminotschermakite":


- "Ferro-ferritschermakite":

16th Dec 2006 17:15 UTCAlan Plante

- Ungarettiite: Approved.


- Ferriwhittakerite: Approved 2001.

16th Dec 2006 17:20 UTCAlan Plante

- Winchite: Valid, grandfathered.


- Ferriwinchite: Approved 2004


- Ferrowinchite: Approved.


- Parvowinchite: Approved 2003.


- "Ferri-ferrowinchite":


- "Ferri-winchite" (of Leake, 1978): Discredited.


THE END!

16th Dec 2006 22:11 UTCJim Ferraiolo

...time to find my amphibole binder...

16th Dec 2006 22:22 UTCAlan Plante

Just one binder, Jim? - How'd you manage to condense it all down to fit? :~} - Al

17th Dec 2006 03:48 UTCJim Ferraiolo

There's also the PDFs, the Excel spreadsheets.....

20th Dec 2006 04:27 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

I'm not sure I'll ever be able to pronounce half of these names, let alone interpret the analyses!

Can't we just boycott the group?

:-)

Ralph

20th Dec 2006 12:47 UTCJim Ferraiolo

I've tried, Ralph, but the species keep coming....

20th Dec 2006 16:42 UTCAlan Plante

Hi Ralph


I started a "No More Ampiboles!" campaign here several years ago. It doesn't seem to have slowed down the boys 'n' gals with their high-tech toys any...


:~}


Alan

20th Dec 2006 19:46 UTCJim Ferraiolo

There were no bumper stickers or buttons for the campaign..

21st Dec 2006 04:12 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

I'll start working on the t-shirts!

21st Dec 2006 12:50 UTCJim Ferraiolo

Have to send one to Frank Hawthorne!

22nd Dec 2006 00:54 UTCAlan Plante

I've got the big banner for protest marches ready and waiting. - Just let me know where and when to show up. (Maybe the next IMA convention?)


:~}


Alan

27th Dec 2006 22:24 UTCAlan Plante

Oh no we don't: If anyone thinks we're going to let this thread sink into obscurity before the corrections are done, think again! - I didn't do all that work just to exercise my fingers and my mouse! :~}


Alan

28th Dec 2006 00:17 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

I added kozulite references.


Alan, is ferritschermakite really "approved"? We show no type locality for it; no localities whatsoever in fact.


Neither do ferrotschermakite or ferropargasite have a type locality.


Alfredo

28th Dec 2006 03:33 UTCAlan Plante

Hi Alfredo


The honest answer is: "I don't know." :~}


In fact, I'm hoping that the process of adding initial description references and dates of approval based thereon will resolve those questions - and a few others that were raised in my mind as I went through the amphibole pages. We can only hope...


This problem is the main reason I recommend that the initial description citation be included with the approval and date under "Status." It would then be easy to check and make sure something said to be approved is really approved. - No hunting through the references listed at the bottom to find out which of them, if any, provides the answer.


KOR!


Alan

28th Dec 2006 12:47 UTCPeter Andresen Expert

Both ferrotschermakite and ferropargasite are mentioned in my Nickel & Nichols (1991),first as granfathered the second as approwed. Both are also on the IMA list as redefined (Canadian mineralogist 1997). But no TL is listed.


I got a ferrotchermakite, from Lindenfels, Oswald, Germany. I think I got it from Tim Jokela...

28th Dec 2006 14:22 UTCPeter Haas

"Lindenfels, Oswald, Germany" ?!?


Odenwald ?

28th Dec 2006 16:06 UTCPeter Andresen Expert

Thanks Uwe. The label is corrected.

28th Dec 2006 22:27 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

What's the status of "fluor-magnesiokatophorite"? We do not have this name yet on Mindat either as a species or variety, but there is a photo of an alleged specimen on the Bear Lake Diggings page.

1st Jan 2007 01:25 UTCJim Ferraiolo

Fluor-magnesiokatophorite, along with fluorotremolite and fluororichterite, from the Bear Lake diggings, Bancroft area, Ontario, Canada, has crystal structures described in "Short-range order in amphiboles from the Bear Lake diggings, Ontario" F.C.Hawthorne, R. Oberti and R.F.Martin, Can. Min. 44, 1171-1179(2006).


Fluor-magnesiokatophorite, and probably fluorotremolite, would fall under the new category of "named amphiboles"
.


Not approved, but valid.


Fluor-magnesiokatophorite is also mentioned on several dealer related websites.

1st Jan 2007 01:34 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Thanks, Jim. I've added the three amphiboles you mention above to Bear Lake. Any info about whether the older amphibole entries for this locality (edenite, hornblende, katophorite, magnesiokatophorite) should be struck out? (I suspect they're equivalent to some of the newer studied material.) Having lost a liter of blood to the mosquitoes and black flies at this locality, I have a special attachment to it :-((
 
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