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Techniques for CollectorsMineral trimming tips?

26th Feb 2008 03:41 UTCMichael Roarke Expert

I am hoping that some experienced members would be willing to share their experience regarding equipment, techniques, and pitfalls involved in mineral specimen trimming. If this thread has been previously run, please let me know...

27th Feb 2008 01:02 UTCThomas Henderson

Get used to the idea of breaking some good specimens? It happens. I made a pretty serviceable hydraulic splitter out of a Harbour Freight log splitter (that bent when I tried to use it for it's intended purpose). I shortened the length of travel as far as I could and screwed a piece of maple into the ram side where the rock can bite in as pressure is increased. Be advised that tougher rocks will fracture with explosive force, and some type of confining system is needed. I use a cardboard carton over the top and bubble wrap underneath to catch the fragments. It ain't pretty, but it works and I'll at least get some use out of my investment!

27th Feb 2008 04:10 UTCMichael Roarke Expert

Thanks, Thomas.

Most of the specimens I would trim are already cabinet size or smaller, and a log splitter would presumably be for larger specimens.

I expect that there will be hesitation on the part of most to give advice in this area, and I know there is risk (certainty?!) of specimen breakage, but I would like to know more about what "not to do" based on members' misadventures, and get some general info on equipment one would use.

Mike

27th Feb 2008 05:21 UTCTom Trebisky

Well, here is a tip. Do not buy one of those giant C-clamp

"Wydar" trimmers. I have one right here, and I can tell you

that it is all but worthless, even on the smallest pieces.

It did handle the chalky soft rhyolite tuff from Utah that

has the holfertite and topaz in it just fine though.

27th Feb 2008 05:27 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

Get a Zuber trimmer. Five hundred bucks, but mine paid for itself in one day. Trimmed several flats of material that broke other trimmers.

27th Feb 2008 16:49 UTCThomas Henderson

Actually, the modified log splitter works well on trimming up my miniatures. But it definately is an attempt to turn a sows ear into a silk purse! I have one of those Wydar trimmers, also. Only works for smaller pieces.

27th Feb 2008 18:35 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

My Wydar is now a paperweight. I much prefer the Zuber. For very small, more precise trims that are beyond the Zuber's precision I use tile nippers.

27th Feb 2008 19:12 UTCTom Mortimer Expert

I defense of Wyder trimmers, I have used one extensively for over three years. It still works as well as the first time I used it. I have found it to be most satisfactory. I do not abuse it. Small cabinet size specimens are about the largest I attempt to trim with it.

27th Feb 2008 19:18 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

I'm not saying the Wyder is useless, but instead, the Zuber is more useful and more versatile than the Wyder. When I didn't have a Zuber, my Wyder was used heavily. Now that I have the Zuber I don't use the Wyder. (How many people would drive a Yugo when they have a Benz?)

28th Feb 2008 17:53 UTCDon Saathoff Expert

Michael...I know I'll get yelled at for this, but I've been using a small (6 inch) trim-saw w/ a water-cooled diamond blade for many years. I have splitters but my losses w/ the saw are far fewer. It's a fact that many micro, thumbnail and miniature collectors don't like the aesthetic of a saw cut, but, for me, it's whatever gets me down to the crystal!!

Don S.

6th Mar 2008 16:42 UTCDonald Peck

For trimming small specimens (tns to micros), long handled end nippers work pretty well. I inherited some that my father used to trim horses hooves. They are about 30cm in length and easy to control.

13th Mar 2008 17:31 UTCDon Saathoff Expert

Hello Don P.....aren't those old hoof trimmers great!!?....I've got three pair, all different w/ regard to length of handle (leverage), size & shape of blades, and hardness....one pair inherited, other two flea market....I also use electrical side-cutters

Don S.

21st Mar 2008 16:56 UTCDonald Peck

Don S., I have three different sizes and could not get along without them!

Don P.

25th Apr 2008 04:23 UTCmike sanders

Dont waste your time with Chinese knock-off trimmers. You want reliable tools, youll just have to pay for quality. I have a Zuber MP-5 purchased from Mikon about 10 years ago at the TGMS. Its a really tough tool, and well worth paying for.

So go ahead all you bargain hunters, buy that el cheapo zuber chinese knockoff, save a few bucks, but you'll really pay in terms of $$, and major frustration. You know the excellent quality zuber is a rip off and there is something better for cheaper from Harbor Freight, so go for it. If you are serious about prepping specimens, youll be sorry, trust me.

Mike Sanders

Albuquerque, NM

5th May 2008 03:08 UTCMark & Linda Mahlum

I bought a Zuber MP-5 a year and a half ago and it is awesome. I collect Colorado's San Juans and that means hard quartz. I've trimmed a couple of hundred pieces and have only ruined one. And I am a rank amateur. The Zuber has stood up perfectly to these hard quartzes.

Mark Mahlum

13th May 2008 00:31 UTCMike Sanders

Get a Zuber trimmer, forget the Chinese Wydar knock-off. Good tools will cost 3 times as much as the cheap crap, but they'll last at 10 times as long, or longer. You get what you pay for, Harbor Freight fans. I've had my Zuber MP-5 trimmer for about 15 years now (purchased from Mikon at the Tucson show), and have really put it thru the paces. This is one very well made German tool. If you are serious about trimming rocks (I am), get the Zuber, end of story.

Mike Sanders

13th May 2008 20:06 UTCAnonymous User

Hello!

Here are some tips from my experience.

1-Examine the specimen several hours/days or even weeks/months before trimming.

2-Make a diagnosis of all mineral species present.

3-Plan your work.Write down a project.Describe mechanical and chemical work.

4-Use a small drill (one of those used by dentists,i know they are expensive,but...) and remove small parts.This lowers the possibility your specimen gets trash.

5-Make sure you keep clean the specimen and the desk you work on, while you work.Dust hides details that are important.Be sure to be able to see what you're doin'.

6-Better remove slowly a crystal by polishing than violently drawing to remove it from matrix/cluster.

7-Do not harry.Better slowly and safe.

8-Practice on cheap samples of the same or similar material.

9-If the piece is too expensive, let the professionals do it.There are labs that trim mineral specimens against money.

10-Don't touch a piece that you couldn't live without.

Hope I helped.

-Kostas.

25th May 2008 03:14 UTCEd Godsey

It looks like Shannon & Sons Minerals sells the Zuber MP-5 in the USA. Their web site lists it for $537.95.

25th May 2008 05:06 UTCDonald Vaughn

don't trim in the field, and expect to lose some. last year I shattered

a four or so inch pink tremolite crystal in fowler new york if I had waited I would have either left it as is or at least done it gingerly almost cried

25th May 2008 07:15 UTCChris Wright

I have 11 trimmers including Zuber and Wydar. I find that the Wydar with the hydraulic C has less vibration for more fragile but sturdy items. I have had very good luck with this trimmer.

25th May 2008 14:26 UTCDavid K. Joyce Expert

I use a couple of hydraulic splitters, one a Chinese knock-off and one a home made splitter. I OFTEN trim in the field, usually successfully. It makes it a lot easier to pack the good ones well and to reduce volume for transport.

My secret weapon, though, is a non-hydraulic that can handle very large pieces of rock. I have not met a rock matrix yet that it cannot split. PLUS it can handle pieces of rock 18" across and 7" thick! Look at the blades on this thing in the attached image!! It is made in Italy by a company called Monolit but I got mine from a distributor in Toronto. You can often rent them at rental outles that cater to contractors. It is known as a "block cutter" workes soley on leverage and is intended for use by building contractors. It is very heavy and not intended to be very portable, in the context of mineral collecting. It stays at home for the bigger splits. It is incredibly accurate, due to the wide blades.

David K. Joyce

26th Aug 2016 02:00 UTCLokoman

A friend of mine bought a Zuber MP5...looking great. Somehow he never got to using it as circumstances changed etc etc. Now he's finally ready and keen as mustard to work on his collection. The Zuber however won't do a thing you can pump all day long ....I have opened it up and can't for the life of me understand how it can work at all...no relieve valve to let the piston down

Or to bleed the air out, I tried the centre bolt and the one on the side......could you or any get us going. I emailed the Zuber Co. ..but get totally ignored. Thanks heaps.

Lokoman.

26th Aug 2016 03:09 UTCWayne Corwin

i think that one,, just pump lever 1/2 way to move ram,, hold all the way down to release.

20th Sep 2016 23:40 UTCDaryl Keller

I found a good deal on rose quartz rough, so I bought a couple of buckets worth. The problem is that I have to trim them to a "consistent" size - hopefully, rectangular - like the prepackaged stones I've been buying. When I try to trim the large rough stones, most of the pieces end up in sharp chips or triangles - not rectangular like I want. The batches I have bought in the past come from Brazil and each stone is nearly uniform. How do they do it? Is there a rock crusher that produces such a uniform size? Or, perhaps a specific trimmer? Any help would be appreciated.

21st Sep 2016 00:53 UTCGary Moldovany

Darryl, I use an angle grinder with a diamond blade (Home Depot) to cut a groove where I want the rock to break. Top and bottom. After the break, you almost can't see the cut. Doesn't work every time but it's fairly effective. I have a hand-made mineral splitter, screw type, that I purchased from a friend. Search the net, you may find one used somewhere.

21st Sep 2016 01:57 UTCBob Harman

DARYL, At least one problem with your massive rose quartz is that most of the rock has a myriad of internal weak points or incipient internal fractures. When you try to trim the pieces they preferentially break along these weak fracture planes and not exactly where you want them to break.

In Brazil, or wherever, they probably have a similar problem with some of the material, but that is largely discarded as waste and you only see the pieces that trimmed up well.

What GARY M has suggested will be of some help, but I suspect you will still have considerable wastage. CHEERS.....BOB

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