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Mineral ShowsNewbie collector-should I go to the Denver Gem show?

1st Sep 2023 11:00 UTCChrissy Astin

Hi, I'm new to collecting (mostly spheres, palm stones, and raw specimens). I've heard that after the pandemic that the prices at the Denver show have gone up a ton and the uniqueness of materials available has gone down tremendously. Is it worth the cost/time to travel there or would you recommend buying online/local? I would love to see some really cool stones in person...just curious if it's worth the cost of getting/staying there (as that alone is not cheap). Thanks for the advice

1st Sep 2023 11:15 UTCChristian Auer 🌟 Expert

Hello Chrissy, welcome to mindat!
I never was at Denver - I guess the costs from Europe are a bit more than yours.
I still could advice you to go - not for the costly minerals but for the people you will get to know!

1st Sep 2023 12:07 UTCChrissy Astin

Thanks, Christian! I love this site! I'm learning so much!

Definitely considering going....just trying to work out the logistics and costs of getting there!  Thanks for the advice!

1st Sep 2023 11:31 UTCFrank K. Mazdab 🌟 Manager

In part it depends on where you live.

If you live in Denver, yeah, you should probably go to the show.

If you live somewhere where you have to hike 10 km from a small village to a town with a bus that can take you on a 10 hour journey to a city with an airport that can take you via two or three inconvenient connections with obnoxiously long layovers finally to Denver, then eh, maybe not worth the effort, even if show prices are cheap (and show prices essentially never are). In part you're paying to cover dealers' expenses to potentially make that same trip, with all their merchandise in tow.

But as Christian pointed out, there are many positive intangibles to be gained from attending a show in person, schmoozing with others of course, but also not the least that minerals in photos never look quite same in real life... you never get to see them from every imaginable angle. I'm pretty sure there's more buyer's remorse with online purchases than with in-person purchases.

1st Sep 2023 12:06 UTCChrissy Astin

Thanks, Frank! It would be a 12 hour drive for me so definitely not close.....I'm in Missouri and haven't found anything big in my area--there is a show in KC in November, which would only be a 4 hour drive, but it doesn't look nearly as big as Denver.

And yes, I've had lots of buyer's remorse from my online purchases  :( 

1st Sep 2023 12:14 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Well, it is the second biggest in the US. I have been going to it probably for over15 years. The Hard Rock show has top end dealers and good displays. The club show has dealers with more modest prices. There are also about 4-5 other venues around the city. Some of these have a very much more lapidary bent. (National Western Complex  )
In general it is a bit cheaper to attend than Tucson, but there are still significant numbers of dealers. You can wander around for 3-4 days and not see everything.

For eleven days in September, Denver, Colorado, hosts 11 separate shows featuring 900 vendors and exhibitors displaying and selling rocks, minerals rough  

I have a report from the show last year that covers some of what happens there.


1st Sep 2023 13:51 UTCChrissy Astin

Wow, that is a great post from last year, David! Thanks so much for sharing that link!  It looks like there are so many great things to see in person (even if I don't end up buying a lot)!

1st Sep 2023 12:52 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Living near the Tucson show, an hours drive, we went for years and years.  Main thing I try and tell any newer collectors, be aware of pricing.   The prices on specimens and anything else related to the shows can be all over the place so be aware of this.
I suggest, if you do make the trip, do a whole lot of looking before you start spending on things that catch your eye.
One big example, I saw a specimen I liked at the first room at one of the motels at the Tucson show and purchased it.  Knowing prices it paid off since the piece was forty dollars and I knew it was a steal, a number of rooms later the price was several hundred for the same thing.   If one had gone into the other rooms first and purchased there, it would have been a real bummer.
So, be aware of what things should sell for before you spend your money.
Those big shows are worth going to and getting an idea of what all is out there to add to ones collection.   
Other expenses also add up, lodging and all is raised higher for the shows too.
Above all, have a great time to see so much in one place.

1st Sep 2023 13:30 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Rolf Luetcke Expert  ✉️

lodging and all is raised higher for the shows too.
 That mainly applies to Tucson. Denver rates during the show doesn't go up. Metro area is 2.5 million, Tucson is 500,00 and Tucson has a lot of snowbirds in February.

1st Sep 2023 13:39 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

David,
I had heard from some Denver friends that prices had gone up during the show but I have only visited Tucson since it is so close to us.  Sorry if I got the price hikes wrong and good news for the gal who posted the thread.

1st Sep 2023 13:50 UTCChrissy Astin

This is great advice, Rolf!  I definitely need to do my homework to make sure I don't over pay for anything!

1st Sep 2023 13:56 UTCFrank K. Mazdab 🌟 Manager

David Von Bargen Manager  ✉️

Tucson is 500,00
 Tucson metro area is 1 million. But yes, hotel rates are higher in winter, independent of the show, simply because winter is the tourist season here. And while there is no doubt some additional price add-on gouging during the core weeks of the show, the bigger challenge is just finding a room... places book up fast.

1st Sep 2023 13:48 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

I live in the St Louis area and have regularly gone to Denver for the shows, so I'm well aware of the trek across Kansas that you'll endure if you drive!   I'm not going this year (conflicting obligations).

I'll add a little to Rolf's advice about knowing prices.   Mineral specimens are unique, so if you see a piece that you like, and the price is reasonable to you, buy it!   There are a LOT of collectors at the larger shows, and there's a good chance that someone else may buy the specimen that you left to go comparison shopping.   Some dealers will allow you to "set back" a specimen for a couple of hours so you can shop around, some won't.   If you do this please be sure to go back to the dealer within the specified time and either buy the piece or tell them that you don't want it.

Also, especially since this will be your first time going to the Denver shows, make note of where you saw something that you may want to go back to.   Write down which venue you were at, which floor and room/booth number, and the dealer's name.   Use a piece of paper, send yourself a text/email, it doesn't matter as long as you can find the dealer again.   Some of the venues are BIG, and they're miles apart.   You can easily forget where you saw something.

One last thing, if you go to Denver take the time to go to the Colorado School of Mines museum in Golden.  Their displays are superb!   Make sure that you park legally, the parking police will definitely give you a ticket if you don't.   https://www.mines.edu/museumofearthscience/

1st Sep 2023 13:57 UTCChrissy Astin

Thanks, Kevin! This is great info! I planned on printing out a map and then making a list of where I saw things I like. If I go, I plan on being there in the latter half of the show so maybe I can get good deals on the last couple of days when people are trying to get rid of everything (versus taking it back home).

That is good advice about not waiting if I really like something, as I have had some things even online sell out while I was trying to make a desision.

I am an hour outside of STL so yes, I would be driving across Kansas (not looking forward to that part, LOL).

Have you gone to the show in KC in November?  That one doesn't look nearly as big but I can't find out much info on it so not sure if it would be worth going to.  

Thanks again for the help, and the recommendation for the museum!

1st Sep 2023 13:58 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

04827920017060965303160.jpg
Kevin,
You are right about the one you may like being gone if you shop around, this is why I mentioned knowing prices and why I purchased a specimen first room at the motel in Tucson, knew it was a deal and later it was shown whoever had the specimen just wanted to get rid of a group of them cheap.
Above is the siderite with chalcopyrite we purchased knowing pricing.  The room had a dozen of these for $40 each, should have gotten them all.  This piece is 7x5cm in size and I had to have it.

1st Sep 2023 14:07 UTCChrissy Astin

Rolf, this is such a cool specimen!!  Do you have any resources you recommend for finding what different things should cost or is it more about just doing research to see what different vendors are selling for?

1st Sep 2023 14:08 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

Chrissy Astin  ✉️

the show in KC in November
Yes, I've been to these shows.   The November shows typically don't have nearly as many mineral dealers, and display cases, as the March shows.   However, there are good dealers at both, and I've found plenty of specimens to bring home at both.   That said, the March shows are my favorites.

Here's a report on the show earlier this year:

The November show: 

2nd Sep 2023 11:24 UTCChrissy Astin

Thanks, Kevin! I'll see if I can make it to one, or both, of these!

1st Sep 2023 14:12 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

One thing about the Denver traffic. There can be traffic jams any time (accidents) or just plain weird backups. Also check to see where there is construction going on.

1st Sep 2023 16:17 UTCAdam Kelly

David,
I lived in the mountains of Colorado for years, and our saying was: 
Did you know that Denver is only an hour from Denver?
Traffic pops up for no reason sometimes, and can disappear as quickly.
Chrissy,
The Denver show is great. Even though it is huge, it is a bit more manageable for a "Newbie" than the Tucson show, which is mind boggling.
The KC show is pretty good for what it is. I often find bargains there, since some of the dealers there do it more for fun than a full time job.  Of course there are some of the heavy hitters there as well.
Have fun!

1st Sep 2023 17:19 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

I've been to Denver enough that I know where all of the shows are, but I still ask my phone for directions.  The reason is to check the traffic situation.  Sometimes it's faster to take the side streets and drive a little farther.

1st Sep 2023 14:19 UTCEric D. Fritzsch 🌟

Its always worth going to the big shows and you should attend local shows as well.  Before you go, set yourself a strict budget and keep to it.  It's too easy to go "overbudget" at a big show.  With 900 vendors bringing an average 1000+ specimens you can't possibly see a million specimens.  Buying on-line is fine, but you'll really get a sense of what is out there by seeing it all.  You can often see hundreds of the same mineral from the same mine and sometimes only 2 or 3 of them "speak to you" as what you would like for your collection.  It's like grocery shopping for fruit--you can use the service of the grocery store or amazon to order fruit, but it's much better to check it out in person at the grocery store or farmers market .  We can't always go to the orchard.

Check google flights for cheap air fare.  I just saw $63 roundtrip from KC to Denver (Sept 12-16).  Denver is easy to get around with the train, bus, or Uber.  For Tucson you can buy tickets round trip from KC to Phoenix for as low as $118.  Perhaps you can split up your 12 hour drive with a fellow collector or planning short stops along the way such as the small geology museum at Fort Hayes.

I don't think specimens were necessarily cheaper during the pandemic and I've been going since 1984 and all through the pandemic.  They always go up every years, but everything else does too.  You'll see plenty of specimens with high price tags, but there are also always bargains at the big shows too.  I think it surprises many buyers but dealers are under pressure to keep prices low too because if they don't sell, they don't eat.  They have a lot of competition at large shows and I don't know many dealers who live in mansions.  Also keep in mind that many dealers can't afford to put $5 specimens out anymore because the cost of the space, time to make the transaction, transportation costs, can destroy their profit margins. 

My motto is  "collect what you like and like what you collect."  Yes we all like the transparent, polychrome 12 inch sharply terminated tourmalines, but most can't afford them.  Don't sell yourself short by getting specimens you don't like either.  Once you've seen 10,000 spinel crystals you'll understand what makes a good specimen, do you even like spinel, and what a good price is for a specimen.  Pricing is always subjective and often doesn't make sense until you've been at it a long while, and then there is always some irrationality to it.  Mineral collecting is a verb and therefore an action or activity that isn't really completed by clicking on a mouse in front of a screen.    

2nd Sep 2023 11:26 UTCChrissy Astin

This is great advice! Thanks, Eric!

1st Sep 2023 15:01 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

One other thing is that all is a learning curve and to get to understand prices and what is a good deal takes a lot of time.  Nobody figures it out the first time to a big show.
We have been going to the Tucson show since about 1972 and we have gotten our share of bargains and rip offs too.  So, as stated, the learning experience is fun.
One other hint, take the money you are willing to spend and don't do much credit card buying, it is budgeting.   
The most important, you meet a great number of people at the shows and then slowly get familiar with what the shows have to offer mineral wise.
Enjoy and hope you find some nice things.
My wife just suggested to go with someone who knows pricing.  Case in point, my cousin came to the Tucson show for the first time and asked if they could tag along with us  since we knew the shows.  They did this for about three years visiting and then did the future shows on their own.   

2nd Sep 2023 11:27 UTCChrissy Astin

Unfortunately, I won't be going with anyone knowledgeable about this stuff, but maybe I can meet up with someone from Mindat, like Herwig suggested below, or learn through trial and error! Thanks for all of the help, Rolf!

1st Sep 2023 19:44 UTCDean Allum Expert

As Kevin mentioned, there are fantastic museums that you can visit in Denver. There is also the possibility of collecting some pretty fantastic rocks yourself in the nearby mountains if you can stay the extra couple of days that it would take to find them and return. A lot of CO sites can be found on Mindat

2nd Sep 2023 11:27 UTCChrissy Astin

Ooooh, that sounds fun! I'll look into it! Thanks, Dean, for the suggestion!

1st Sep 2023 22:33 UTCEd Clopton 🌟 Expert

Another travel option:  drive up to Omaha (or one of several stations in southern Iowa, depending on where you are in Missouri) and take the train--it's overnight both ways, with morning arrival and evening departure in Denver.  You control your own luggage, so less chance of damage in TSA inspections.  Besides, you get to ride a train instead of having to deal with airports and airplanes!  There are pros and cons to both, but you can tell where my preferences are.

2nd Sep 2023 12:47 UTCChrissy Astin

Thanks, Ed.  I definitely didn't want to fly in case I buy something fragile, as I don't want anything broken by TSA, and I dislike flying in general.

30th Sep 2023 07:46 UTCUdo Behner

when i did the denver show as a dealer i always drove with a van from los angeles or temecula  flying i would have missed the fantastic landscape and the trip over the rocky mountains and would have paid a fortune to a forwarding company and with the good chance that my freight would have arrived late or damaged

3rd Oct 2023 12:03 UTCChrissy Astin

I did end up driving to Denver (it was about 12 hours)....It was a bit much doing it solo and the landscape was a bunch of farm lands, so not as nice as a trip over the Rocky's but it was nice not to have to worry about putting my specimens in my luggage and worrying about damage in checked luggage or from shipping. 

2nd Sep 2023 05:12 UTCHerwig Pelckmans

Dear Chrissy,
First of all: welcome to mindat! I know Christian (from Austria) already welcomed you, but that does not prevent me (from Belgium) from doing it once more! :-)

FYI: your question is actually a very big one, for people could write a book just by answering it. Okay, I agree, more likely a few books. Why? Because most mineral collectors also buy specimens, and being able to do so at one of the major mineral shows in the world, is something special. People from all over the world fly into Denver just to attend the show! And no, that's not exagerrated, I know a few of them personally.

So my straithforward answer to your question: yes, do go. There's a zillion reasons to go, and only a few for staying at home. One major reason to go: you'll never be able to experience something similar at home, no matter how good a virtual visit to the shows might be.

Your visit to the Denver shows will have multiple advantages: you will learn more about minerals (and the people behind them) in a short time than you can imagine. So it's not only about buying, it's also about learning more about the hobby. There will be free talks, so make sure you know where and when, most of those talks are really worth (the time) attending!

Also, there will be displays at some of the shows, and those are temporarily, so make sure to see them too. Consider photographing them instead of looking at them in detail, it will save you precious time.

While at the shows, check out the stands of the mineral magazines. Talk to the people present: they are always happy to hear from a new collector. Marie Huizing, the editor of Rocks&Minerals, is a joy to talk to, and is one of the persons I would go to with any questions while in Denver.
Make sure to page through a few of the latest issues of R&M: IMHO the best magazine for people who want to learn more about the hobby, with lots of different articles in every issue. It's not a coincidence this is the oldest mineral magazine around (for it's wide alive and kicking!).

Since you have a car, and it's only a 12h drive, no need to think about a different way to go. It will also allow you to go where-ever you want to go. Make sure to sample the international cuisines present in Denver: the whole town has lots of great eateries. Ask Marie for some of her favorites!

My final suggestion: ask a seasoned collector (here on mindat) if (s)he will be willing to spend a few hours visiting one of the shows together with you. One who is willing to talk about the specimens on offer, about their prices, about their "rarity", etc etc. 
I would not mind at all to do so, but I will not be at this Denver Show. However, I will be at the Tucson shows next year, and would be happy to assist you there. So you've got a standing invitation!
Cheers, Herwig

2nd Sep 2023 05:44 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Hardrock talks - https://hardrocksummit.com/2023/06/23/lecture-program/
personally I like talks by Ed Raines  and  Mark Ivan Jacobson  

While at the shows, check out the stands of the mineral magazines.  
Rocks & Minerals and the Mineralogical record will have booths just outside the main entrance to the show. They will be on the far left. I tend to hang out at the R&M booth.

Sort of an oddity is that the Hardrock show is open Friday to Monday.

Also, there will be displays at some of the shows,  
These will be at the shows in the Convention Center (hardrock and club shows)

Club show:

The 55th Annual Denver Gem & Mineral Show® (DGMS) is partnered with Hardrock Summit and preparing for another exciting year.  This year’s theme is “Gem Minerals: Nature’s Bling”. Amber Brenzikofer is the 2023 DGMS Chairperson, who is supported by a Show Committee and more than 100 volunteers from the member clubs. 

 

  • Special Exhibits: Enjoy exquisite displays from the Denver Museum of Nature and Science, the Jim and Gail Spann Collection, and the Gene Meieran Tourmaline Slices.
  • World-Class Fluorescent Mineral Room: Step into a radiant world of glow-in-the-dark minerals, hosted by Conrad Noth and Brian Walco from the Fluorescent Mineral Society.
  • DGMS Dealers: Don’t miss out on the unique buying opportunities provided by 35 diverse dealers. This year, DGMS is also introducing a Miner's Coop for small local miners to showcase their finds.
  • Educational Experiences: From gemstone cutting demonstrations to gold panning opportunities, DGMS offers hands-on learning experiences for both kids and adults.
 


You can also get tickets and register online - This solves one of my biggest complaints from last year.

3rd Sep 2023 11:20 UTCChrissy Astin

Hi Herwig!  Thank you so much for the info and offer. Don't know that I will be able to get to Tucson but if I do, I'll definitely let you know....shadowing someone in the know would be a great way to learn!

Do you know where I can get copies of the most recent issues of R&M magazine? I'd love to learn some more before I head out to the show!

3rd Sep 2023 11:21 UTCChrissy Astin

Thanks for the info, David!

3rd Sep 2023 11:49 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Chrissy Astin  ✉️

Do you know where I can get copies of the most recent issues of R&M magazine? I'd love to learn some more before I head out to the show!
 It's probably too late to get copies mailed to you. They do bring older issues to the show if you are interested in anything in particular. (you can look at the various table of contents at their website https://www.tandfonline.com/toc/vram20/current?cookieSet=1 ). They also have show specials when you subscribe at a show. If you really find an issue you want, I would contact Marie so they can make sure they have it available.

2nd Sep 2023 12:29 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Crissy, sent you brief PM on your page about visiting shows and expanded a bit to the Tucson show as well.
Have a great time at the Denver Show.

2nd Sep 2023 19:48 UTCKeith A. Peregrine

Chrissy,

Yes!  Visit the Denver show.  Was there 4 years ago and had a great time.

My only piece of advice is to stay off the Interstates downtown, take the city lanes.  Was quicker when I was there.  To travel out of downtown, then I'd take the Interstate.

They've rearranged things quite a bit in these past few years, so I can't tell you where the venues are these days.  If you can get a copy of the Denver EZ-Guide, that would make your getting around more organized and hopefully simpler.

Keith

3rd Sep 2023 11:04 UTCChrissy Astin

Thanks Keith!

3rd Sep 2023 04:47 UTCDan Polhemus

Chrissy –

I have been going to the Denver show for about 10 years now, since I have a house in Denver, and have watched it steadily expand and change venues over that time. My impression is that prices have not really gone up much more than the basic rate of inflation over time, except perhaps for the high-end specimens offered by the marquis dealers, which most humans cannot afford anyway. The trick is to check out the smaller individual dealers, such as those in the Miners Coop section of the Coliseum show, where some good deals on interesting specimens from offbeat localities can often be had.

The show (actually a whole set of shows) is big, and mostly rather spread out across the east side of the city, except for the finale which is in the convention center downtown. As such, you definitely need a car to get around between the various sites, most notably the Crowne Plaza out toward the airport, and the Denver Coliseum complex closer in (both are just off I-70). The latter show goes all over the place, so be prepared to walk, a lot. Also bring a magnifying glass, a small flashlight or headlamp (not all the dealer tables are that well lit), and a UV flashlight to check for good fluorescent specimens. And wear comfortable walking shoes.

The other consideration is timing. The shows this year go for 11 days, but that is more time that many folks have to spend in Denver. The Crowne Plaza and Coliseum shows start on the first Friday and run most of the week, while the show at the Convention Center runs for only the last four days. During the past few years, I have gone to the first two shows, and given the latter a miss, because I was finding better specimens at better prices by hitting those two shows early (and they have no entry fees, and lots of free parking).

As far as how to search out good specimens at good prices, if you are into haggling then the Moroccan dealers can often be talked down, but this can take some time, and they will want cash. There are also dealers at the Coliseum show with big piles of aquamarine, spodumene, and such from Afghanistan and Pakistan that they sell by a set price per gram, with some piles consisting of higher-grade material that goes for more. But the sorting is not always so good, and if you take the time to root around you can often come up with very nice specimens in the supposedly second-rate piles where things go for less. As noted before, the Miners Coop is also worth a look, as those are smaller individual dealers who tend to price things to sell. Also stop by Michael Shannon’s booth, as he has consistently offered a huge variety of interesting and unusual specimens are quite reasonable prices, and also carries a wide range of supplies and display boxes for housing your purchases once you get home; there is no one else quite like him. At the Crowne Plaza, although there are dozens of booths in the ball rooms, also make sure to go check out the dealers in the individual rooms down the halls off the atrium, a faint echo of the way things used to be when the show was at the Ramada Inn (in those days one guy even used to rent out the laundry room and set up in there); the Russians tend to be back in these rooms, and under current circumstances are often willing to negotiate good prices for nice things.

Overall, I would definitely recommend a visit to the Denver shows. They are not quite as big and overwhelming as Tucson, and in a way that is a good thing, in that you can get a feel what a big mineral emporium is like, but at a scale that is still somewhat comprehensible. And you will probably have a lot of fun overdosing on beauty.

 

3rd Sep 2023 10:58 UTCChrissy Astin

This is GREAT info, Dan! I had planned on brining a light, UV light and scale but the magnifying glass is a FANTASTIC idea.

I had no idea that there were multiple shows! I thought everything was at the National Western Complex but I see that there are so many options.....a couple of questions (if you don't mind)

1. Some of the shows listed say Wholesale only. Does that mean I can't even go look if I'm not a wholesale buyer or that I can't purchase anything (but can window shop)?

2. Is there a difference in quality or what vendors carry between the National Western Complex shows and Crowne Plaza shows?   I looked at the vendor lists but it's hard to say just from that what they will be bringing. I'll only be in town for a few days and trying to plan my time so I can see as much as possible and prioritize getting to vendors that carry things that I can afford.

3. If I come, I'll be staying about 30 miles from the venues (in Parker). People above mentioned traffic issues. Since you are in Denver, do you have any advice on navigating from Parker to the venues?

4. Do you know the name of Michael Shannon's booth? Is that Shannon Family Minerals?

Thanks so much for your help!

3rd Sep 2023 11:32 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

2. Is there a difference in quality or what vendors carry between the National Western Complex shows and Crowne Plaza shows?   - Crowne plaza dealers tend to have better mineral specimens. In the arena, about 1/4 of the dealers carry mineral specimens. The entire upper level is gemstones. 

4. Do you know the name of Michael Shannon's booth? Is that Shannon Family Minerals?  
Yes

1. Some of the shows listed say Wholesale only. Does that mean I can't even go look if I'm not a wholesale buyer or that I can't purchase anything (but can window shop)?  
Crowne plaza and agta (denver convention center) you need a state tax resale document to enter those areas. in the National Western Complex there are wholesale dealers, but they seem to be a little more relaxed. The checkout for them can lead to very long lines.  

By the way if something is labeled keystone, those are half the price on the label.

3rd Sep 2023 11:40 UTCChrissy Astin

David--so I can't get into Crowne plaza at all without a resale document?

Thanks for the info on "keystone" label.....I had not heard about that!

3rd Sep 2023 11:57 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

No, there is a small section of the Crowne plaza that is wholesale (maybe 20 out of some 200 dealers). 

3rd Sep 2023 17:04 UTCDan Polhemus

Chrissy –

Staying in Parker, you are actually in a good spot to reach the Denver shows. Just go north on Parker Road to I-225, then take that north to I-70. For the Crowne Plaza show, exit east on I-70, then stay far right and take the first exit to Peoria St. (comes up fast), and then go left at the top of the ramp. The Crowne Plaza is right there on the east side of the road (you will see signs for the show). For the Coliseum show, go back west on I-70, which recently had a major rebuild. Note that this is a busy road with a lot of large trucks. As you come out of the long underpass section, stay right and take exit 275B, which is well marked and indicates the Coliseum and Brighton Blvd. Parking is usually easiest by going under the interstate highway viaduct and over to the left (coming from Crowne Plaza direction), where there is a huge lot, then walking back to the venues north of the highway. If you decide to go to the legacy Club Show at the downtown convention center I suggest getting there on the light rail system, which drops you off at the door, and saves on parking hassles and expense. That show is a good place to meet and talk to people, but not necessarily a place to find great deals on specimens, since it is expensive to rent a booth space there, and the prices reflect this.

At the Crowne Plaza show there is one room that is wholesale only (you need to have a business and a tax number from some state), but 95 percent of that show is open to everyone, and there is a lot to see (including tents and individual dealers in the small rooms). At the Coliseum all the booths are open to everyone, but at many you can get a vendor discount (keystone) if you show your tax number. As noted by others, the upper ring of the Arena tends to be the lapidary, gem and crystal healing section, but the floor of the arena (where Shannon sets up, among others) is full of regular mineral dealers. These also spill out into the extensive outdoor tent section beyond, where you will find many dealers from Mexico, India and Morocco. The weather is predicted to be warm and dry, so the outside shopping should be great (but bring a bottle of water in your day pack). The Miners Coop has in recent years been in the livestock halls next to the Arena (this complex is used for the stock show later in the fall), along with a lot of other bulk lapidary dealers, and the gems-by-the-gram folks. The Coliseum is a venue where you just have to walk and poke around, but it is worth it to do so - sort of like a giant mineralogical scavenger hunt.

Another show that you might consider checking out is the Just Minerals and Crystals show off Sable Blvd. This is a new addition to the Denver shows ensemble, but has good potential. When heading back down to Parker on I-225, just exit at 6th Ave., go left (east) a block or two, then right (south) on Sable and you are there. There were nice specimens there at good prices last year, and I made a few buys. Since it is right along your way home anyway, it is probably worth a look.

Have fun.

 

3rd Sep 2023 17:33 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

I can only second what Dan wrote. Very good information and advice.

4th Sep 2023 18:47 UTCChrissy Astin

Thanks for such precise directions! Really appreciate all of your help, Dan!

7th Sep 2023 01:10 UTCChrissy Astin

Dan, one more question for you. I will likely not be arriving until Tuesday next week. You mentioned going to the shows early. Do you think there will still be plenty of inventory next week?

Thanks again for your help 

7th Sep 2023 05:04 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Most dealers would be ecstatic if by the end of the show they had sold 10% of their stock.
It's only new finds of good material that tends to move fairly fast.

7th Sep 2023 09:30 UTCChrissy Astin

That totally makes sense! Thanks, David!

4th Sep 2023 02:37 UTCHerwig Pelckmans

Another interesting thing, already touched by Dan: it is important to bring a good amount of cash. I know more and more dealers will accept plastic nowadays, but cash is always better when negociating prices. Lots of dealers still prefer cash because it does not leave any traces.

And while on the subject of money: normally there is sales tax on everything you by in Colorado, but (in general) at the shows the prices are final prices (= sales tax included). Shannon FM might be the only exception (he was a few years ago), so make sure to ask him or read the signs in his room.

As David already mentioned: some tables or eventually whole rooms might have "keystone" signs. That indicates the prices you see on the specimens will be cut by 50%, so you'll pay half.
Sometimes there is even "double keystone", and yes, then you'll only pay 25% of the original prices.

Another tip: bargaining will always work better when buying more than one specimen from a dealer. Sometimes real bargains can be had when minerals are sold "by the flat". A "flat" is the general word for a cardboard box that holds 36 (or 48?) beer/soda bottles/cans and is only about 3 inches high. These flats can be easily found in supermarkets and collectors used to pair them so they would have a bottom and a lid. They would take them into the field and would fill them with the specimens they collected that day. And so "the flat" became an important storage unit in the mineral collecting world. Later on, companies started making "high end flats", from sturdy cardboard, with nice white exteriors and brown or white interiors, and in different heights. The Denver Box Company is famous for making such flats.

So it is a very common use to ask for a flat when you notice a dealer has many specimens that are of interest to you. The dealer will give you an empty bottom and that'll help you to move around more easily while hunting for specimens in his/her room. It will also let other customers know that these specimens have been chosen by you and so, even though some people may look at them, they will know the specimens are put aside and will not be taken by someone else. And at the end, if there are many specimens in the flat, the dealer will put a lid on top and you'll be ready to go with your specimens already boxed up.

Another important thing to bring: your personal (business) cards. It's very common to exchange cards with dealers and other collectors, and it might even be the spark of a lifelong friendship. So make sure to have plenty of them (say 30 or more), because they can go fast. And another use for these cards: put one or two very visible in the flat the dealer gave you (see paragraph above). That makes it even more clear specimens have been put aside while shopping.

All for now ... as I told you, books can be written about this! :-)
Cheers, Herwig

4th Sep 2023 11:03 UTCChrissy Astin

Thanks, Herwig! This is fantastic info!  I really appreciate all of the help so I can have the best experience possible as a newbie!

For the Keystone pricing, is that only for wholesalers or is that for all customers (or does it just depend on the shop)? Do vendors usually only have that kind of pricing the last few days or do some vendors do keystone pricing for the whole show? It's just crazy to me that they would give you 50% or even 75% off of the marked price (unless they are marking it up that much and then making it seem like a discount by marking it down, LOL)....so much to learn!

4th Sep 2023 11:22 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Chrissy Astin  ✉️

Do vendors usually only have that kind of pricing the last few days or do some vendors do keystone pricing for the whole show?
 depends on the dealer. Some want to get rid of specimens at the end of the show and others would just like to get rid of them throughout the show. They probably have them marked up or they have had them so long, they just want to get rid of them and get some money back.

4th Sep 2023 19:54 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

About 'keystone pricing': Be aware to dealers who double, triple, etc. their prices before the show then advertise 'spectacular' keystone deals....which are of course just their normal prices.

Experience will help you recognize this deception. Seeing more dealers and visiting more shows helps you develop a better idea of appropriate pricing for specimens in particular size/quality ranges.

Also be aware that with some dealers - I won't mention any names here - have higher prices for equality quality simply because they have a reputation and can get away with it. This is really great reason to shop the 'lesser' dealers.

5th Sep 2023 10:30 UTCChrissy Astin

That's disappointing but I have seen that, even from seller's online. They are popular so they charge way more for a piece that other sellers sell for much less.

If you wouldn't mind sending me a message of who you recommend or who you would be cautious of, I would really appreciate it--if that goes against any rules of this group, then please disregard my request (just trying to learn as much as I can before I go and not get taken advantage of as a newbie who will be there solo)

5th Sep 2023 21:38 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

"If you wouldn't mind sending me a message of who you recommend or who you would be cautious of "

Because I am a dealer myself such a list would be unprofessional.

6th Sep 2023 09:26 UTCChrissy Astin

So sorry, Steve! I didn't know and totally respect that!

5th Sep 2023 02:59 UTCHerwig Pelckmans

Another tip: try to buy from the "source". For example: if Chinese minerals are of interest, then buy from Chinese dealers.

What happens every show, is that dealers look at the stock of other dealers. New material is especially of interest to anyone, so in general the person who is selling new material (for example a new find of nice fluorite crystals from a locality that has not produced such things before) will have good sales, and among his first customers there will be other dealers. Those other dealers will, after adjusting the price (upwards, of course),  put those specimens for sale at their room/in their booth. So in order to get such specimens at the best price, you need to find "the source".

Sometimes prices can go up dramatically and quickly. About 20 years ago, a friend of mine had a single crystal of benitoite, nicely prepped (by himself), for sale in his room in Tucson. He had it priced at 800 dollars, which was a very fair price for the quality of the specimen.
Moments after he had put it out for sale, a befriended dealer walks into the room and starts looking around. Not 5 minutes later the benitoite was sold (for the full price).
The next day, my friend walks into his room, all excited, and tells me: Do you remember my benitoite? It's for sale by my friend who bought it yesterday, for 1800 dollars!

The (true) story did not end there, to our surprise. Because that same day, the benitoite was sold to a "high end dealer" (I will not mention his name here, but he is still very active) who, most likely, already had one or more potential customers in mind for this rock, and who wanted to sell it online. We were informed about this because the "intermediate dealer" told us. So we kept an eye on the website of the high end dealer, and indeed, the next day, that very same benitoite was offfered online for 8000 dollars! And guess what: it sold within a week!

Since it is free to ask any price for any specimen, there is indeed a lot to learn about "the actual value of a specimen". I'll elaborate on that tomorrow!
Cheers, Herwig

5th Sep 2023 10:54 UTCChrissy Astin

Thanks, Herwig!  I truly appreciate all of the help!

I've seen the kind of stuff you mentioned above in other collectors' items, but to buy the item and mark it up at the same show is INSANE!!!  Kudos to your friend for selling at a fair price and it is a shame that the other vendors profited off of his kindness.

I don't have the money to spend crazy amounts so that will limit me purchasing some things and I'm ok with that. Just being able to see things in person will be a cool experience!!  

Looking forward to your take on the "actual value of a specimen."

5th Sep 2023 11:00 UTCDale Foster Manager

Chrissy Astin  ✉️

I've seen the kind of stuff you mentioned above in other collectors' items, but to buy the item and mark it up at the same show is INSANE!!
 
It is business and if people are willing to pay the prices asked then it will happen.

As a newcomer, I would suggest setting yourself a budget of what you are prepared to spend on a specimen, as it can be very easy to get carried away.

Bear in mind a small specimen that you can appreciate best using a loupe or microscope is likely to be more modestly priced than larger 'showy' pieces, although this may not automatically hold for any really rare minerals.

Anyway, enjoy the experience and learn as much as you can.

5th Sep 2023 21:28 UTCUdo Behner

go ! there are many good dealers in Denver and do not hesitate  to ask questions   even if you think it might be  a stupid question you will meet other rockhounds who can give you advice

6th Sep 2023 01:23 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

Experience and very good observations will guide you when deciding what is a good price vs. a high price.   It's important to compare equal quality and size specimens from the same locality.

An important thing about quality: perfection, perfection, perfection!!!   When looking at a mineral specimen, think of it as if you were buying something like a new windshield for your car.   Would you want one with chips and cracks, glass that has cloudy areas, one that is wavy (not correctly shaped) so when you look through it things look distorted, and/or just doesn't fit your needs?   Hopefully "no"!   Above all, buy something that will give you joy every time that you look at it.

A note about the dealers that have high prices...  The vast majority of them are selling specimens that are rare and/or top quality.   Even though you may not buy anything from them, look at the specimens very carefully.  This will help you learn what "the good stuff" is.

That said, one year I was looking at the booth of one of the high end dealers at the main show in Tucson.  They were known for having excellent specimens, and sometimes extremely high prices (even for the quality of the minerals).   A German friend of mine walked up and asked me "Are these prices or phone numbers?".

6th Sep 2023 04:18 UTCHerwig Pelckmans

Kevin Conroy Manager  ✉️

A German friend of mine walked up and asked me "Are these prices or phone numbers?".
 Thanks for my morning chuckle, Kevin!
Cheers, Herwig

6th Sep 2023 09:29 UTCChrissy Astin

That is funny, Kevin! 

And thanks for the analogy about the car. That totally makes sense!

7th Sep 2023 03:03 UTCHerwig Pelckmans

Kevin Conroy Manager  ✉️

Experience and very good observations will guide you when deciding what is a good price vs. a high price.   It's important to compare equal quality and size specimens from the same locality.
 Dear Kevin,
Allow me to quote you as the start of my reflections on "actual value of a specimen". Of course you are right in what you wrote. But, as you also know, it does not always work that way.

My favorite example of mineral price evolution is the mineral cavansite. As one can see from the mineral page, this mineral was first described from a find in Oregon:
Even though the typical blue color was already obvious in the Oregon specimens, the material found at the start was very small: in Goble, OR, they never found enough for scientific studies, and so it was the material collected in a roadcut near Owyhee Dam that finally allowed mineralogists to describe the then new mineral cavansite (first description was published in 1967).

The material first found near the Owyhee Dam was very humble: single crystals up to 0.2 mm!
The best material was collected a few years later, in 1972, by Rudy Tschernich, also near the dam: crystals to maximum 2 mm, in sprays to max 4 mm across, and at best covering a large part of the matrix. In his honor (Rudy was a great collector!), here's a link to one of his photos: 
and this photo gives an idea of what a larger specimen looks like (fov = 6 cm):

As you can imagine, the best specimens were sold quickly to mostly American collectors, since it was a new US mineral and a colorful one as well. On the other hand, for collectors of specimens with large crystals, the OR specimens were "on the limit of being acceptable", since the crystals were so small. 

Fast forward to 1989, when cavansite was found for the first time in India. The find was of general interest for it was the second locality found for cavansite. But most of all it was of major interest because the specimens had much larger crystals and crystal clusters, and consequently the color was darker and even more electric blue. When that material first came to the US, the collectors of large specimens went crazy, because it was so much better than the OR material. Almost everyone wanted a specimen, and so demand was very high, and there was only so much found in India. Nobody knew if there was going to be more, so prices went up like crazy too. Needless to say quite a few collectors paid dearly for those first cavansites.

As it turned out in future years, India was able to provide a lot of cavansite from a number of different localities, ...
...  so much, that the market got satisfied. Consequently, prices for cavansites went down considerably, and some mineral dealers, who had bought their material when it was truly expensive, even had to (try to) sell their specimens at a loss.

So with new finds, you will never know how long the material will be for sale, and so you'll have to decide yourself whether the rock is worth the money or not. As proven above, the actual value of a specimen does not always increase, sometimes it can go down as well, depending on availability, for example.

All for now, hope you enjoyed the above...
Cheers, Herwig

7th Sep 2023 04:56 UTCDan Polhemus

Although the thread here is straying a bit from the original Denver Show theme, I will note that I have cavansite specimens in my collection from both Owyhee Dam and from India, and in both cases they were acquired at very reasonable prices after the first rush of novelty wore off.
 
The underlying message for new folks going to Denver and other shows is that it may not be wise to chase the new finds on any given year, as they command high prices initially. In some cases, they truly are rare, and the price holds up, but in many other cases if you wait a few years and keep track of things, such attractive novelties come down in price as more of them hit the market, and I have acquired many nice specimens at good prices by exercising such patience. So just like stock market investing, research pays off. Cruise the web and understand what you want to find at a given show, and whether it was something new last year that may be more affordable this year because more of it has hit the market in the interim.

Also define what it is that really interests you and what you want to collect. My wife likes wulfenite specimens, so each year I try to find a nice one for her as a present. So I do background work and determine what competitive prices are for specimens from particular localities. When I see something that falls in that range, I buy it. But I already have a frame of reference for the transaction, because I know what specimens like it have traded for in the recent past. Like any other commodity, mineral specimen prices reward those who have done their homework. This might seem like a burden, but in fact it is a fun part of the hobby, because you get to learn about individual mines and the people who have collected there and brought specimens to market. In some cases, no more will be forthcoming, so get what you can now if the price is right, whereas in other instances, the first few specimens are an indication of far more to come, so it pays to wait a year or two for the price to come down.

9th Sep 2023 13:49 UTCDan Polhemus

Chrissy -

     I wanted to provide you with some updates to my previous advice, since the Denver shows have started and you do not arrive until Tuesday.

     First, the Just Minerals and Crystals show had to move its venue since the other one it was going to use closed. It is now at the Marriott Denver Airport at Gateway Park, which is just down 40th Ave to the east of the Crowne Plaza show, and bit to the off the road to the south. Just like with the Crowne Plaza, take I-70 to Chambers Road, turn north at the top of the ramp and you are in the general area - just look for the signs. However, that show only runs Saturday through Monday this year, so it appears you will just miss it if you come in on Tuesday.

   All the other items noted earlier post in this thread still hold. In addition, Gunnar Farber from Germany is back once again at the Coliseum show after a 3-year hiatus, having set up on the ground floor of the Event Center near Shannon. He has a vast array of mineral species, arranged alphabetically - almost like a  mineral museum, but with everything for sale, and at reasonable prices. If you have particular mineral species you want to add to your collection, he is definitely worth checking out. And at the Crowne Plaza, both Russian and Ukrainian dealers are in the individual rooms, often right next to each other (but co-existing peacefully there). They also have good prices for nice things.

19th Sep 2023 12:49 UTCChrissy Astin

09089490017060965317021.jpg
Thanks to everyone's advice about attending this event! I had such a great time and found a bunch of cool specimens to add to my collection!!

Here are a few of my favorites (feel free to correct me if I got any of these wrong)
Top row- lonsdaleite, botryoidal hematite with quartz and wavellite, specular hematite
Middle row- gobi desert agate, malachite, vivianite
Bottom row- ammonites and staurolites

19th Sep 2023 12:50 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Glad you enjoyed this and found it worthwhile. It was a blast.
 
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