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Susannite : Pb4(CO3)2(SO4)(OH)2, Cerussite : PbCO3

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minID: 2J6-8M9

Susannite : Pb4(CO3)2(SO4)(OH)2, Cerussite : PbCO3

This image is copyrighted. Unauthorized reproduction prohibited.
Field of View: 1 mm

Yellow translucent crystals of Susannite displaying excellent development of stepped habit, with some Cerussite on a Quartz matrix. And is the cover feature photograph on The Minerals of Frongoch Mine book.

Collected by: S Rust

This Photo was Mindat.org Photo of the Day - 28th Jul 2021

This photo has been shown 767 times
Photo added:22nd Feb 2020
Dimensions:3565x3566px (12.71 megapixels)

Data Identifiers

Mindat Photo ID:1032272 📋 (quote this with any query about this photo)
Long-form Identifier:mindat:1:4:1032272:2 📋
GUID:08326dd0-2052-418a-b0bc-7f13287209c6 📋
Specimen MinID2J6-8M9 (note: this is not unique to this photo, it is unique to the specimen)

Discuss this Photo

PhotosPOTD

28th Jul 2021 00:49 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager

Nice specimen and photo

And the locality … quite a tongue twister for pronunciation unless of course if you are Welsh.

28th Jul 2021 02:00 UTCHerwig Pelckmans

Just wondering: how was this specimen IDed ?
In other words: is it sure this is not a leadhillite, for example?

In any way, if the ID is correct and it IS a susannite, then I would suggest making this photo one of the lead photos of the suzannite page.

Cheers, Herwig

28th Jul 2021 02:34 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

Herwig, I agree that this specimen and photo is superb.  Even though I saw several outstanding susannite specimens in the National Museum of Scotland, and I'm a fan of specimens from the Leadhills/Wanlockhead area, this is the most aesthetic crystal that I know of.

28th Jul 2021 02:42 UTCHerwig Pelckmans

Yeah, I fully agree. And knowing the photo and specimen are Steve's, I don't have much doubt about it being susannite.
But I feel it should be mentioned how this was IDed.
You can not visually distinguish between susannite and leadhillite.

And yes, I would love to be corrected if I am wrong. Make sure to add the "how"! :-)
Cheers, Herwig

28th Jul 2021 07:28 UTCSteve Rust Manager

All I am going to say is all the specimens of this type of crystal habit and other variations have all been confirmed as Susannite so far rather than Leadhillite (or Macphersonite). As is true from several other mines in the Central Wales Orefield. Only one specimen of Leadhillite was confirmed from the area, this was as replacement of a possible Lanarkite crystals.

28th Jul 2021 08:33 UTCHerwig Pelckmans

Steve,
Is it so hard to specify HOW this was confirmed?

If somebody else submits a photo of a fairly rare mineral [that has polymorphs that can not be IDed visually], all managers would ask for the same information.

I don't see why the photos of a Mindat manager should be treated differently.
Cheers, Herwig

28th Jul 2021 09:10 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Herwig,

28th Jul 2021 10:30 UTCTom Costes Manager

I would also like to add that Steve made the excellent desicion to use this photo on the cover of his book about the minerals of Frongoch, a must have for everybody who had an interest in Welsh mineralogy or lead-zinc mineralogy.

28th Jul 2021 10:32 UTCHerwig Pelckmans

Uwe, 
Nope, but I stand my ground.
Unless I'm mistaken, there's many many photos that need approval of experts/managers.

If these experts/managers , besides looking at the photo, also have to search around to see if somewhere some kind of analysis can be found, I think that to be counterproductive.

The other way around: if the person submitting the photo would mention something like 
"[Similar material has been] identified by XRD", 
that would make any approval a piece of cake, and at the same time would make the subject of the photo so much more valuable (scientifically speaking).

Adding such a small sentence takes only a few seconds, and saves a lot more time.
Cheers, Herwig

28th Jul 2021 10:40 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager

Doesn't stop someone saying - Oh identified by Herwig !!  Might still not be right !! ((-:)

Such as your comment: Yeah, I fully agree. And knowing the photo and specimen are Steve's, I don't have much doubt about it being susannite.  

That really still wouldn't let us off the hook if indeed it was ultimately incorrect. 

28th Jul 2021 10:41 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

I have to agree with Herwig here. There is a need for everyone, especially managers, to include information about ID methods in photos. I know for certain many of my images lack this information and i should go back and update this.

For exceptional photos such as Steve's this is even more important though, and all it needs is a line such as "Visual ID based on previously tested similar material".

However, Herwig, even though I agree with your point I do think you need to be careful with your tone when addressing other mindat users (or managers) as it can come across more aggressively than you may think.

Uwe.  The information in the locentry page indeed explains how susannite at the locality was verified but does not tie that to the specific crystal morphology being discussed here. That information is new (to me at least) from the discussion in this thread.


28th Jul 2021 11:53 UTCHerwig Pelckmans

Jolyon Ralph Founder  ✉️

I do think you need to be careful with your tone when addressing other mindat users (or managers) as it can come across more aggressively than you may think.
 I'm sorry if people read my messages with a tone different from the one I had in mind. I do try to stick to the facts but at the same time bring them "raw". 

I do know I tend to be very open and straightforward, and to some people that transpires as aggressive, because they are not used to people being that way.

Nevertheless, I'll keep an eye out for my "tone". And to the managers: if you feel I'm crossing the line, please let me know asap. Like Jolyon did now. No offence taken, not at all.
Cheers, Herwig


28th Jul 2021 12:18 UTCDebbie Woolf Manager

Tenacious yes, aggressive is misinterpreted.

29th Jul 2021 00:33 UTCGabriel Plattes

Aye, there is not one aggressive bone in Herwig - in my noggin' I've got him categorised akin to Poirot, a Belgian gentleman through and through. 
As a counter-balance, there is something to be said about overly sensitive people, who mistake something they do not like to read or hear, with rudeness. In Belgium such reactions are referred to as 'lange teenen' - 'long toes', easily trod on... ;)
 
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