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Carnegie Museum of Natural History, Pittsburgh

Last Updated: 19th Oct 2023

By Jolyon Ralph

This is a LIVE report, keep this page loaded for live updates - new images will appear as they are added.





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Another new museum to explore, this time the historic Carnegie Museum of Natural History



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Pittsburgh is famous for coal mining.



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Let's explore the Hillman Hall of Minerals and Gems



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The front wall of the display contains larger aesthetic specimens along with a few killer pieces, such as this Ilmenite from Norway. Note that, sadly, most pieces have poor locality attribution



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Siderite and Galena from Romania



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The Stargate - Stilbite on quartz from India



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A large historic slice of septarian nodule from Weymouth, Dorset, England.old Wards label



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Twinning display



There's a radioactive mineral turntable



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Properties of minerals



Turn the wheel to see how double refraction is visible through a polarised filter.



And pleochroism



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Pegmatite gem pocket reproduction



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Close up



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Mamures district of Romania



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Gypsum with a tip included with jamesonite



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Nice big calcite



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Minerals of the former Soviet Union



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Emerald and ilvaite



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Bertrandite and rhodochrosite from Kazakhstan



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Really good calcite (for the locality) with Dioptase from Altyn Tube, Kazakhstan



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Pennsylvania minerals



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Clinochlore



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Malachite from an iron mine in Berks Co.



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Old beryl



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Natrolite



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Bulgarian minerals



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Pyromorphite. This display had better locality names for some reason, maybe it's newer.



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Back to PAxminerala, a Chester Co. Fluorapatite



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And now let's look at the systematic collection



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Native elements



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Gold and arsenopyrite from California



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Classic copper crystal from Michigan. Again labelling is really insufficient.



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Mercury from California



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Moving along to sulfosalts etc. Bournonite from "England" (of course from Herodsfoot mine, Cornwall)



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Bolivian cylindrite



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German proustite



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Stibnite and berthierite. Romania



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Moving on again, fluorite on sphalerite from Illinois



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Tsumeb cerussite



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Dolomite and magnesite from Spain



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South African Rhodochrosite on manganite



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Phenakite, Brazil



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Pyromorphite from Zambia



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Campylite from Dry Gill, England



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Ludlamite from Idaho and Mexico



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Mexican wulfenite



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Picromerite on halite from Germany



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Linarite from New Mexico



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Hedenbergite from Sweden



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Uvarovite garnet from Finland



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The Gem Hall. Photos aren't allowed here



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But I snuck one anyway



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A display about the silver mines of Laurium, Greece



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A cast of smithsonite after a wooden timber.



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Replica of Corinthian style helmet



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Do you want to see the masterpiece gallery?



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Of course you do. Here's some gold



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Gold from Breckenridge, Colorado



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California gold



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Gold from Calaveras Co., California



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Nugget from California. No weights are given.



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Fluorite on Galena from Mexico



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South African Rhodochrosite



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Brazil tourmaline



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Wulfenite and minetite from Mexico



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Hemimorphite after calcite from Missouri



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Pyrargyrite from Mexico



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Tourmaline going hairy, on albite, Brazil



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Goethite from Lancaster Co.



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Weird beryl from Delaware Co., PA



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Berks Co., PA Goethite



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And finally, a Sweet Home Rhodochrosite plate! Now to the dinosaurs...



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The prep lab is visible to the public, as is the fashion these days.



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Some of their current work



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Camarasaurus lentus from the Jurassic, showing death pose. The tail is not the original orientation however.



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Ceratosaurus nasicornis abou to much on a Dryosaurusvaltus.



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Diplodocus carnegii on to he right, Apatossurus Louise on the left.



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Apatossurus



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Sinornithosaurus sp.



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T-Rexes and a triceratops in the rear



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Mosasaur



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Fish attack. Xiphactinus audax attacking a Pachyrhizodus caninus.



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Tylosaurus proriger



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Dolichorhynchops bonneri



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It's Mammal Time



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Big box of bones



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The library!



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We found another cabinet with rocks in the kids area



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Including this ugly thing



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And with that we exit through the gift shop. Thank you for watching and I'll next be reporting on the New Mexico Symposium next month.





Article has been viewed at least 3671 times.

Discuss this Article

19th Oct 2023 15:12 UTCMatthijs Hellinghuizen

I really appreciate the interactive exhibits showing the optical properties of some minerals (birefringence & pleochroism). These are not so well-known to the general public but are a really interesting part of mineral collecting to me.

19th Oct 2023 16:19 UTCDonald Lapham 🌟

Does anyone know the more precise location for the Stargate stibite on quartz?

19th Oct 2023 16:29 UTCJamison K. Brizendine 🌟 Expert

00934470016017593929057.jpg
The "Stargate" is from Jalgaon in Maharashtra State.

19th Oct 2023 16:35 UTCDonald Lapham 🌟

Thanks!

19th Oct 2023 16:35 UTCJamison K. Brizendine 🌟 Expert

It was nice seeing some "old friends" here. I visited the museum a few years ago and the exhibits were really well lit and well maintained. I agree with Jolyon that the labeling is extremely poor, which is one my biggest criticisms here. When I visited in 2018, I took hundreds of pictures of specimens and uploaded these to Mindat, so we can all enjoy them (though Jolyon's are much better thanks to advancements in digital photography).

The museum had a working online catalog called a widget ( https://carnegiemnh.org/emu_widgets/mineralogy.html ), which is where I got my information for precise locality information, approximate size, and past ownership. Each specimen I uploaded, I had linked to the widget so a viewer could get some more information, but sadly it appears the widget hasn't been updated (it wasn't always reliable either), nor is it compatible with most smartphones.

19th Oct 2023 16:53 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

The hemimorphite after calcite is one of my favorite pieces in any museum.  In my opinion it's one of the top mineral specimens in the world!   It's hard to tell from the photo but that thing is BIG.

19th Oct 2023 22:15 UTCGabriel Plattes

I love this series. :) :)

19th Oct 2023 22:21 UTCGabriel Plattes

Is the Carnegie Library, from which all those books were stolen (an extraordinary story a little while back), near this building (solid digs, by the way, solid, - very nice indeed)?

19th Oct 2023 22:55 UTCDana Slaughter 🌟 Expert

Hi Kevin,

I'm sure that we've both lauded the MO hemi after calcite here before but I don't want to miss any opportunity (no particular prodding needed!) to fawn over that particular piece--it is indeed my favorite mineral specimen of any kind. I've met perhaps a half dozen others that have nodded in agreement when discussing this particular piece.

By the way, the piece measures 54cm across (!!!) and was entered into the collection on February 3, 1897. I made a trip to Pittsburgh from Grand Rapids, MI with the sole purpose of seeing this piece in person (about 420 miles one way!).

20th Oct 2023 04:16 UTCEd Godsey

Kevin - Is the hemimorphite after calcite from the Tri-state district?  If so, any idea which locality? 

20th Oct 2023 13:49 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

Ed Godsey  ✉️

hemimorphite after calcite
Hi Ed,

As the link that Herwig provided states, it's definitely from the Tri-State District.   I've heard a few guesses as to the exact locality, but amazingly none of these hemimorphite after calcite specimens (that I know of) seems to have an original label with the exact location.   They have a generic Granby Field, Newton County or Joplin Field, Jasper County label.   I'm sure that these pseudos were found in both counties, but the origin of the amazing specimen that the Carnegie Museum has will probably remain an mystery.

19th Oct 2023 22:47 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager

Yet another museum to add to my "bucket list" although will probably never get to see.

Looks like you could spend days there taking it all in.

Thanks so much for sharing.   

20th Oct 2023 15:23 UTCKnut Eldjarn 🌟 Manager

Great museum report! Nice exhibitions and many fine specimens. But even if the reading ability of the public is in decline, I think they would have managed to read more detailed locality descriptions.
Thanks for sharing!

23rd Oct 2023 14:25 UTCbob kerr

I chatted with Wilson's about the labeling issue brought up herein.  Here's some of their feedback:
The labeling results from decisions made during the initial design considerations of Hillman Hall.  The Hall was conceived as a gallery where beautiful and top-quality minerals and gems would be displayed as art TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. This is consistent with Andrew Carnegie's vision of "Free to the Public".  Labeling was to be kept at a minimum so as to not detract from the artistry of the specimens. It was considered that those advanced enough to truly care about the specimens would already know why the specimens were important; those who weren't just wouldn't care.
 
For my taste, to both maintain the above design philosophy and also provide the additional detail that some (many?) would like, it seems to me that inconspicuous QR codes could be placed on the glass in front of the specimens that would take the user to the additional locality and history info.

bob

23rd Oct 2023 14:45 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

I don't think the answer given is reasonable - It's a bit like an art gallery putting up the Mona Lisa without putting the artist's name next to it.

In fact, most art galleries go further giving the years the artist was alive and often a short explanation of the piece and what it is meant to represent. 

Art is not about seeing pretty things. Art is about understanding them, and the labelling in the Carnegie fails entirely at this - sorry.

23rd Oct 2023 14:46 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

On the positive side there were some great exhibits that did this well, especially the Laurium exhibit.

23rd Oct 2023 15:12 UTCDavid Carter 🌟 Expert

bob kerr  ✉️
Labeling was to be kept at a minimum so as to not detract from the artistry of the specimens. It was considered that those advanced enough to truly care about the specimens would already know why the specimens were important; those who weren't just wouldn't care.
 

Sounds to me like a simple case of dumbing down.

The venue in question is called the Carnegie Museum of Natural History, a natural history museum being defined as “a scientific institution with natural history collections that include current and historical records of animals, plants, fungi, ecosystems, geology, palaeontology, climatology, and more, with the primary role to provide the scientific community with current and historical specimens for their research to improve our understanding of the natural world, and a secondary role to have public exhibits to share the beauty and wonder of the natural world with the public”.

To me, the Hillman Hall of Minerals and Gems, being within the Carnegie Museum of Natural History, should not be oversimplifying matters with some misguided belief that a portion of their visitors wouldn’t care!

Also, surely art should both entertain and educate us?

24th Oct 2023 05:00 UTCDale Foster Manager

Jolyon Ralph Founder  ✉️

don't think the answer given is reasonable - It's a bit like an art gallery putting up the Mona Lisa without putting the artist's name next to it.
In fact, most art galleries go further giving the years the artist was alive and often a short explanation of the piece and what it is meant to represent. 

Art is not about seeing pretty things. Art is about understanding them, and the labelling in the Carnegie fails entirely at this - sorry.
 
I agree, whilst I am not an aficionado of art, I concur that if I were to view a piece of significance, knowing something of the background to it would enhance my understanding of it.

To just wave off proper location data under the auspice of:

"It was considered that those advanced enough to truly care about the specimens would already know why the specimens were important; those who weren't just wouldn't care."

Is just downright lazy and to my mind merely encourages the dumbing down of society and reduces an interesting exhibit to just vacuously looking at a bunch of pretty rocks then moving on to the next piece of ephemeral eye-candy.

23rd Oct 2023 16:02 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

If you go to a museum, it is to learn something.

It seems a hype that everybody MUST have an I-phone. So a QR code could help.
But what do you do with people who DO NOT have an I-phone? About 75% of us have one. The other 25% do not.
You just tell them, go home, there's not to see here.
Many restaurants do not have a menu card any more. Scan the QR code.
I'm perhaps old fashion but if you don't have an I-phone, you can't read the card.
That still's my hunger right away.

Keep safe.

23rd Oct 2023 16:30 UTCDebra Wilson Expert

The "Minerals as Art" was only part of the explanation that was communicated to Bob. Here was the entire explanation from Marc:

Thanks for sharing this, Bob! Jolyon gave the hall a very nice review. It is interesting to note the specific exhibits/specimens he highlighted. It is obvious that he has a real interest in historically and mineralogically interesting specimens - a true connoisseur. His criticisms on labeling are true but result from decisions made during the initial design considerations (i.e. requirements) of the hall. Hillman Hall was conceived as a gallery where beautiful and top-quality minerals would be displayed as art. Labeling was to be kept at a minimum so as to not detract from the artistry of the specimens. Several points are pertinent: 
  • * minerals were presented with minimal labeling because the hall was intended to be an art gallery for the general public: those advanced enough to truly care about the specimens would already know why the specimens were important; those who weren't wouldn't care anyways
  • * the computer kiosk that would allow visitors to look up all information on every specimen exhibited was defunded and cancelled at the last minute of the recent renovations
  • * the interactive database that allows visitors to look up additional information on all of the exhibited specimens online has been non-functional since last December
All of these are beyond the control of Section of Mineral personnel.

Over the years, I was able to gradually sneak more science, cultural and locality information into the exhibits and specimen labeling in order to improve their cultural and geological context including: changing the graphics to include images to show that specimens came from mines and quarries; creating locality suites where I could get away with adding mine or associated towns of origin; including types of occurrences to labels for specimens in the Pennsylvania exhibits (i.e. "roadcut," iron mine," etc.); creating special exhibits emphasizing the cultural significance and historic importance of the specimens; etc. These efforts always included arguments with "The Powers That Be", often including exhibits staff who had their own agendas, during the justification process.   

And might I add to Marc's explanation, the on-line database will HOPEFULLY be up and running again soon so people can have access to more complete information on each specimen on exhibit...at least I have been promised it will. As far as QR codes go, there would be over 1,300 of them on the glass and in many instances it would be impractical to have them placed inconspicuously.

24th Oct 2023 15:28 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

You would only need 1 QR code per cabinet, and that would then list the pieces within that cabinet to click on for further details. It shouldn't be too hard to do.

24th Oct 2023 04:20 UTCHerwig Pelckmans

Debra Wilson Expert  ✉️

As far as QR codes go, there would be over 1,300 of them on the glass and in many instances it would be impractical to have them placed inconspicuously.
Debra and Marc, thanks for the supplementary information. I hope both of you are doing fine. It's been ages since I last met Marc, and I don't think I already had the priviledge of meeting you.

IF the database also has the floorplan (= the complete 3D layout of the minerals on display) incorporated, then specimens should be easily located using the software and consequently it should be easy to "find" the specimen in the database and get access to more complete information.
Having it that way would avoid to add the many QR codes (that, Paul, are readable by any cell phone that has a QR app, not just by I-phones).

Finally, I would suggest the presence of at least two printed (yes, on paper) catalogs of the specimens on display. [Ideally those catalogs should have both the minerals arranged by the floorplan and an alphabetical list of all the specimens (by species).] Those will become very important whenever the database goes down unexpectedly, and those would have been very useful since last December, if they had existed.

24th Oct 2023 08:25 UTCClosed Account 🌟

"A cast of smithsonite after a wooden timber."

This is of course BS. The labelling on this specimen should have been kept to the (below) minimum generally employed in this "museum" in this case, saving the visitors so many layers of wrong information.

First of all, the ancient Greeks did not use timber for support. They mined in marble that generally did not need support timbering as evidenced by the good condition they are in today, after 2500 years of missing maintenance.

Second, the ancient mines hardly ever filled up with water (due to their construction and "water tunnels" to remove excess water), and if they did, the deposits generated was aragonite and calcite, but not smithsonite.

What we can clearly see is a cast of smithsonite after gypsum crystals (see the secondary former gypsum crystals at the right side) which are quite common in the Kamariza area. Since it is so common there, I hesitate to give a more precise locality, but if my life depended on it, I would say it is from the 3rd Level of the Jean Baptiste Mine.

The baryte (and not barite!) to the right of the smithsonite is one of the ugliest pieces I´ve seen (definitively not fit for a museum) and is from the Paleokamariza Mine No. 18. (see the photo above what a good specimen looks like)

On the photo below ("Replica of Corinthian style helmet") it should have been mentioned that the decadrachm is also a replica and was most likely minted 467 B.C. (466 - 468).

If the curator of this exhibit wants some help, including loans of specimens, he is welcome to contact me.

Branko


24th Oct 2023 16:20 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

Branko Rieck ???? Expert  ✉️

baryte (and not barite!)
To be fair, "barite" is the spelling used in the USA, and it's an approved synonym.

24th Oct 2023 17:27 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Thank you Branko, I bow to your knowledge on this of course, it seemed reasonable to me, but now this clearly calls for the case to be revisited.

24th Oct 2023 15:37 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

I want to readdress my criticisms of the labelling at the Carnegie to make it clear that this is not a problem unique to them, this is a common problem with mineral displays worldwide, and I see this again and again. 

Part of the problem is the sheer amount of work needed to do the labelling in a way that we would consider "appropriate" within this audience, and the design requirements and problems with layout this would entail.   We have situations for example the new display outside the mineral hall in the Natural History museum in London where is a display of classic mineral specimens with absolutely no labelling whatsoever! Not even the species name! That's simply because it was decided to do something as a visual attractor for people to bring them into the galleries - but for me this is an absolute crime (although it is quite nice for me to be able to show off my identification skills to others by pointing out what they are).

There aren't any real standards about how minerals should be displayed and what information should be made available, and that's something perhaps the SMMP and/or the IMA Museum Commission could look into.  For me the most important thing is being able to access that information if needed.  So the absolute minimum for me would be the specimen catalogue number and a way to look that up on my phone within the museum database.   The catalogue number could be presented via a QR code as mentioned previously, and that could be one QR code per cabinet.    

If you want to make collections have scientific and educational value beyond the "here's some pretty rocks to justify the museum entrance fee" you do need to do this as a minimum.

I hope my comments can help drive things forward to improve the displays here and elsewhere in the future, and I'd be happy to be involved in any committees or discussions going forward on that with my (maybe unwanted) advice.

24th Oct 2023 16:49 UTCKnut Eldjarn 🌟 Manager

This important discussion about the lack of appropriate labelling in the Carnegie museum (and many other modern mineral exhibits for that matter) is part of a much larger challenge to educators and museums in general.  Simply walking through a museum can be uninspiring and isolate those who do not feel a particular connection with the exhibit, or those who lack sufficient understanding and prior knowledge. Some years ago I read that our senses are bombarded with an increasing amount of inputs at a rate that has resulted in the average attention span dwindling to less than 8 seconds - or that of a gold fish. When displaying an object of any kind in a museum the aim should be not only to attract the attention of the visitor for a brief look, but to induce some addition reflections and thoughts that could substantially increase the potential for a real learning experience. It is evident that information in text or pictures about the object that can be seen at the same time as the object is of greater value to the general visitor than some additional information that can only be found at another location in the museum or online. It is great when such information is available, but they would probably only be of interest to a small minority of the general public.
I believe curators and museum designers should focus not only on which design and displays that attract most visitors, but also the time spent when viewing the different objects. With modern tools this could be tested with and without relevant locality information and additional information presented with the objects. The aim should be for the visitor to leave the museum with more than just a short lived impression of "pretty rocks". Only then can museums advance and become spaces of active learning.
 

24th Oct 2023 18:42 UTCTravis Olds Expert

We appreciate everyone's criticisms, truly, there will always be a need to make improvements on labeling and to provide new and updated information about the pieces in collections, including their social & technological relevance - but the money or people-power to make it happen is not always there, or to be able to direct money and time specifically for labeling instead of new specimens, updated lighting, other collection needs is difficult... QR codes are just one solution to our labeling problem, and I agree including one to cover each case is a good approach. We're actively trying to make improvements and labeling is at the top of the list. Branko, despite your aggressive and combative comments, we appreciate your insights into the Lavrion case and we do want to make sure it is accurately labeled and depicted. But to say that wood was never used, or that smithsonite cannot be a species that forms casts in the flooded mines, is just not at all realistic. We'll be sure to make note of your thoughts on the possible locality for it in the catalog – it's an old piece from the Jefferis collection, so we have no reason to doubt it's a cast from timber, rather than a very large gypsum crystal. And yes, about the barite, it's surely not the star of the exhibit, but does have nicely formed sheaves with Fe-oxide stained/included tips. We'd be happy to exhibit any loaned specimens, since it sounds like you have access to much better examples. 

-Travis

24th Oct 2023 19:48 UTCTravis Olds Expert

And again, about the purported smithsonite cast after wood, I imagine it actually contains a mixture of layered of calcite/aragonite +/- smithsonite or Zn-rich calcite. When we open the case next for cleaning, I will test it to confirm.

24th Oct 2023 22:19 UTCClosed Account 🌟

Travis,

thank you for commenting here.
On last Sunday I have returned from my 72nd stay at the Lavrion Mining District (LMD), having spent there totaling nearly four years of which was probably more than one year underground - just to give you some reference.

You are right, saying wood was never used is incorrect, as it was used as steps, in lifts, and other mining facilities. I still stand with my comment that it was not used as support beams (as stated on the label), especially not wood with the diameter that would have been the source of the purported cast. Wooden sticks with that diameter would have been useless as support. Also, the wood used in the mines was generally not split, but had a round cross section, which I feel is not the case with your specimen (the photo is unclear for the main through, but the parts on the right side are clearly not casts of round objects).

The label on the photo claims this specimen to be smithsonite. I assume this to be correct, with the smithsonite being Fe-bearing. You will probably also find layers of Fe-bearing calcite and thin layers of Fe oxides/hydroxides. Smithsonite has indeed deposited from aqueous solutions at the LMD but not in the timeframe of the last 2.500 years to form a specimen like the one we are discussing. There simply is not enough Zn in the water to form so much smithsonite in such a short time.

As to what I think the initial mineral in the cast was, for me it is clear that it was gypsum, like this 110 cm piece here:
There were (small) sections in the mines of the Lavrion Mining District, where huge gypsum crystals were used as crossties for the tracks of the mine trams.
Big gypsum crystals are often found as the inside material of casts, sometimes with parts or wholly removed by later activity. Romanechite casts after gypsum are also famous from the Lavrion Mining District (e.g.: https://www.mindat.org/photo-356115.html ).

as a loan. I have sent you a PM with my email address for further discussions.

Best wishes,

Branko

24th Oct 2023 23:23 UTCTravis Olds Expert

Wonderful information, Branko. I do not doubt your expertise on the region. Thank you for the photos and insights that put the initial comments into better context. I then agree, if the Zn is low, it is rather thick to be a post-mining cast of only smithsonite, and after seeing your photos I am more convinced the core was likely gypsum. I further agree, if it was wood, it was definitely not any kind of support. We will add this to the list of needed label fixes. I will post a photo down the tube tomorrow and perhaps some symmetry will be obvious, but from what I remember, the hole is roughly cylindrical.

And thank you for offering the upgraded specimen loan! It's a beautiful piece. I'll message tomorrow.

 
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