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GeneralHoly Grails

14th Apr 2016 16:08 UTCDanny Jones Expert

I am a long time collector and have heard the term Holy Grail applied to rare minerals but have never see a list of what is considered a Holy Grail. Can any one help me out?

14th Apr 2016 16:34 UTCD. Peck

Hi Danny,

I am a micromounter. Our holy grail seems to be crystallized greenockite. I have one not very good specimen.

14th Apr 2016 16:59 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

I like etched gem crystals, so in my case I seek the holey grail.

14th Apr 2016 17:09 UTCPavel Kartashov Manager

Hi Don,

in this case you should to pay great attention to samples from Kudryavyi volcano - http://www.mindat.org/loc-10264.html

Previous year I sold lot of perfect greenockite xls from here.

For me Holy Grail is good (really good) sample of thoreaulite, foordite, changbaiite, trimounsite-(Y), yftisite-(Y) and similar things. For somebody it able to be transparent rhodochrosite xl 5 cm size, for others big (and ugly from my point of view) concretion from Indiana sedimentary rocks...

14th Apr 2016 17:15 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Did anyone ever find the Holy Grail in the King Arthur legend? Maybe it's unobtainable? So how about a well-crystallized native rhodium?

14th Apr 2016 17:35 UTCPavel Kartashov Manager

Aha, Alfredo, and transparent!!!:-D:)-D

14th Apr 2016 17:46 UTCVik Vanrusselt Expert

What about Unobtainium, Impossibrium or Hardtofindium? ;-)

On a more serious note, my "holy grail" would probably be any of the so-called "rare" species, including an irrefutable written analysis.

Then again, when can a mineral species be considered "rare"?

How many specimens of a species should there exist, or how many (micro?)grams should the entire supply of a species weigh for it NOT to be "rare" anymore?

Vik

14th Apr 2016 17:56 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Minerals with undetermined crystal structures: any specimens with suitable crystals.

(E.g. gilalite, sieleckiite, tertschite, yaroslavite ...).

14th Apr 2016 17:57 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

Alfredo, Indiana Jones found the Holy Grail.

The definition of Holy Grail in mineralogy is the specimen you never found ............................or never could afford.

For me, it's a bournonite from Herodsfood with an 8 cm cogweel.

A steep blue wulfenite from Tsumeb would fit very nicely in my Tsumeb cabinet, for sure.

Or a very fine Tsumeb alamosite. Oops, I already have one:-D

Cheers.

14th Apr 2016 19:04 UTCRonnie Van Dommelen 🌟 Manager

When I started collecting, one I heard described as a Holy Grail a lot was jeremejevite. Then a big find was made and I've never heard it since. Phosphophyllite is often described as a Holy Grail. For me a small cabinet phosgenite or catapleiite would be up there.

The good thing about being a field collector is that nature always surprises and seems to have a better imagination than I have!

14th Apr 2016 19:11 UTCMark Heintzelman 🌟 Expert

Ask my wife. She seems to feel I have a lot of "holy Grails" on a fairly regular basis. ;-)

Speaking of, I would rather imagine it's a fairly specific quest for everyone. My only Phosgenite specimen would probably be much more of a "Holy Grail" for a concentrated Tsumeb collector than it is for me, who would happier to have a nice classic Italian one.

Phosgenite - Tsumeb Mine , Tsumcorp Mine, on Otavi, Namibia. 1993 pocket, 3rd oxidized zone. 1 3/4" long

15th Apr 2016 00:34 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager

Hi

I think for me the holy grail would be a self collected specimen of one or more of the various type locality minerals found on ............. The Moon !! Such as Armalcolite, Oxycalciobetafite, or Tranquillityite.

Maybe I can collect one in the next life !!

Cheers

15th Apr 2016 01:05 UTCPavel Kartashov Manager

Hi Keith,

while you are still alive in this life, you may to try collect tranquillityite in Australia - http://www.mindat.org/loc-235899.html. ;-)

15th Apr 2016 02:46 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager

Hi Pavel

But that wouldn't be a "type- locality" !! ...and ........ The journey's not the same either !!!!

Cheers

Keith

15th Apr 2016 12:40 UTCPaul Stephen Cyr

For me... TL petersite (y), a lush small cabinet group.

A large M'fouti wulfenite.

A suite of rare and well crystallized Sterling Hill minerals.

Blue wulfenite & willemite from Tsumeb.

Ichinokawa stibnite. A NICE one!

And finally, huge matrix plates with sprays of either Milpillas brochantite or Pederneira tourmaline.

Painite used to be a rare commodity. I could see gemmy manganotantalite falling in a similar category.

15th Apr 2016 13:04 UTCPeter Andresen Expert

The "Holy Grail", that must be a new and not discovered mineral... And then another new one... and the adventure continues... :-)

15th Apr 2016 13:40 UTCJamison K. Brizendine 🌟 Expert

As someone who likes to collect fluorite, my personal "Holy Grail" would be a nice large Alpine fluorite from either France, Switzerland, Austria or Italy. In the mean time I can look at pictures of Vinzenz Eller's Austrian fluorite or Robert Brandstetter's fluorite from Chamonix, those would certainly be nice in my collection!

15th Apr 2016 14:46 UTCPaul Stephen Cyr

Peter, is that a familiar situation? ;)

The first micro I ever found and deemed worthy of mounting is a greenockite crystal! Good to know I'm on the right track.

15th Apr 2016 16:24 UTCGrzegorz Słowik

For me nice and big Thortveitite xl and like Jamison - red Alpine Fluorite.

Blue Garnet I think, would be "Holy Grail" :D

15th Apr 2016 16:39 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

Yes, A cube of blue garnet!!!

15th Apr 2016 20:13 UTCMatt Ciranni

Xenotime- one of those rare minerals you hear about, but NEVER see at rock/gem shows or at rock crystal shops. The only place I have ever seen specimens for sale are on E-bay, where decent examples can cost hundreds, even thousands, of dollars. I like it because of the interesting rare-earth (Yttrium) composition and for its beauty. I've never seen a Xenotime specimen in person other than in pictures.

Same with the ruby-silver minerals. (Proustite, Pyargyrite, etc.) Even on the extremely rare instance when you see one for sale, they are usually small and uninteresting specimens with tiny crystals. Good examples are impossible to find, and unobtainably expensive when you do find them.

But I like to field collect specimens, and obviously neither mineral will ever turn up in the field- at least, not in my corner of the world. For a "holy grail" of self collected specimens, I'd settle for a nice aquamarine...

15th Apr 2016 20:19 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Matt, Go to minfind.com - http://www.minfind.com/search.php?qs=xenotime&cform_is_valid=1&cf_searcher_page=1 - Plenty of nice xenotime crystals for sale for less than $60. You don't need to spend thousands ;-)

15th Apr 2016 22:23 UTCPeter Andresen Expert

Paul, I'm still hunting! :-)

Matt, what a coincidence, I was just breaking up some samples to look for xenotimes, and found about ten, micros of course. Horrible quality, I'll be happy to even get rid of those not going into my own collection, but the locality is an uncommon one; Kjerulfin mine. The rock is very altered, with lots of clay minerals, so the breaking was done by hand... :-)

16th Apr 2016 00:15 UTCHarjo Neutkens Manager

For me the holy grail would be a mineral named after me but having it published misspelled by the IMA as Neukensite.

Dutch natives or those who understand Dutch will understand why that would be a blast :-)

16th Apr 2016 02:08 UTCRudy Bolona Expert

Zimbabweite,

18th Apr 2016 06:33 UTCPhilip Persson Expert

I am with Pavel on this one.... large crystals of such ugly and rare things as stibiotantalite, microlite and pyrochlore-group species, euxenite/samarskite-group species, thortveitite, behierite, thorianite, loparite, davidite, ixiolite, etc. I was lucky to briefly see a very large, gem-orange willemite crystal from Franklin, New Jersey while in Tucson this year which almost made my heart stop... I am also a sucker for anything really good from Mont Saint Hilaire, the Kola Peninsula, or Langban Sweden. Sure, I like neon-colored gemmy Sweet Home rhodochrosites and Brazilian tourmalines like 'normal' collectors, but such things are unobtainable for me in general, so I need to turn to my knowledge of geochemistry to appreciate a mineral... ;)

-Philip Persson

Denver, Colorado USA

20th Apr 2016 02:34 UTCBob Jackson Expert

An amethyst sceptered Japan Law twin with a moveable bubble!

20th Apr 2016 03:01 UTCRanger Dave

A nice crystal barite specimen from the El Portal Mine in El Portal, CA.

20th Apr 2016 14:01 UTCLászló Horváth Manager

More new species from Mont Saint-Hilaire to get the number of type minerals up to 70 in my lifetime.

20th Apr 2016 14:17 UTCJamison K. Brizendine 🌟 Expert

I had to chuckle at Bob's request. All four of the things he wants in one specimen have been accomplished successfully in an autoclave (well the V-twins resemble Japan Law twins):

Now I wonder if all four things could possibly be done in one specimen! A lot of engineering, calculations and pure luck would make this a very difficult accomplishment!

20th Apr 2016 16:06 UTCJuan Ángel Tort Figueroa

This because I never see other like this.

From ojuela mine.

20th Apr 2016 17:34 UTCJyrki Autio Expert

A rock sized 10 cm or smaller with 8 or more different minerals in size above 1 mm in it.

20th Apr 2016 18:06 UTCRonald J. Pellar Expert

Bob, does this come close? :-D

3 out of 4 ain't bad!

20th Apr 2016 18:08 UTCPavel Kartashov Manager

Hi Jyrki,

there are a lot of situations where such rocks forms.

For example this specimen http://www.mindat.org/photo-501727.html consist of quite visible by eye calcite, ferrodolomite, strontianite-aragonite, cordylite-(Ce), biraite-(Ce), ferriallanite-(Ce), tornebohmite-(Ce), niobochevkinite-(Ce), sodic actinolite, talc. And about 10 more small invisible on photo rare-metal phases.

This is sample another type http://www.mindat.org/photo-72748.html - http://www.mindat.org/photo-72749.html containing ZrNb-bearing narsarsukite, leucosphenite, manganoneptunite, lomonosovite, zorite, raite, aegirine, magnesioarfvedsonite, natrolite, microcline and about 5-6 minor invisible by unequipped eye phases.

This rock http://www.mindat.org/photo-512645.html also isn't so simple as it looks.

Samples with 15-16 visible minerals are more rare of course. But 1 gram of Lunar regolith powder able to contain over 70 mineral phases,

particularly up to 18 native elements and intermetallides.

20th Apr 2016 18:45 UTCJohn A. Jaszczak Expert

A 2-cm sphere of graphite perched on willemite crystal from the Sterling Mine, Ogdensburg, NJ. Ok- 1 cm would be good enough.

20th Apr 2016 19:31 UTCJyrki Autio Expert

Hi Pavel

Those specimens of yours are amazing. I have never found more than 8 in one normal sized sample from local rocks. Though not too many alkaline pegmatites here.

20th Apr 2016 20:11 UTCPavel Kartashov Manager

Dear Jyrki,

your samples from Pyoronmyaa pegmatite are also very cool and quite polymineral. Such pegmatites are completely absent on this side of border (what is very strange for me). For enjoying with something remotely similar we here needs to visit Tuva or Cherskii range (without any guarantees). But you able to see this classical classic under your feet. ;-)

20th Apr 2016 20:37 UTCJyrki Autio Expert

And just counted 10 from Viitaniemi piece when phosphates I'm not sure are counted in! Forgot those.

22nd Apr 2016 21:14 UTCFlorian Baur

I think a Holy Grail would be something that either hasn't been found (so far) or is so rare that buying one is out of the question. But what that is, probably is different for everybody.

The Holy Grail from Artus is (as I remember from school ;)) just a metaphor for something unobtainable but highly desired.

For a while I was really looking for great Francevillites. Now I have a nice large green one and a nice not that large red one. Still looking for more, but not as fervently. So it's not really a Holy Grail as they can be found.

Dutch natives or those who understand Dutch will understand why that would be a blast

Best if found in association with the yet to be discovered Keukenite.

edit: I thought of something. A field-collected Shinkolobwe specimen. It's something that can't be easily bought with money. Though it is possible, I guess. Has anybody ever considered going to Katanga and visit Shinkolobwe? Last I read is that there's a lot of artisanal mining. Makes me wonder where the specimens go... hopefully not to the concentrator.

22nd Apr 2016 21:37 UTCPavel Kartashov Manager

Yes, changbaiite is more match to the description. And don't look at the headphoto on page http://www.mindat.org/min-968.html - I personally investigated identically looking sample from the locality. No any Nb phase at all, of course. Yellow spots here are REE-carbonates.

I am suppose, nobody besides its authors saw it.

22nd Apr 2016 21:49 UTCJamison K. Brizendine 🌟 Expert

Another "Holy Grail" I would like is a snowball garnet...I can't seem to find any for sale!!

I described what they were here: http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,6,312654,page=8

23rd Apr 2016 10:39 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

Florian,

The rumors go that the Shinkolobwe minerals are transported by road to South Afrika. Don't know if this is true.

I think it's not a good idea to travel to Shinko. There are a lot of clans working the deposit and jalousy could be an issue.

To be sure to leave the deposit safely, you should buy from all of them.

Anyway, did you see some " new " specimens on the market lately.

Neither do I so think they are digging in the massive heterogenite topping the deposit.

I hope this helps.

Paul.

23rd Apr 2016 15:01 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Hi all,

For everyone this holy grail of specimens is different so for me there are a couple, one already mentioned, blue wulfenite from Tsumeb. My other is a markascherite. I have seen one that is micro but spectacular and as Mark said, he was never able to find more. I think there are less than 10 known.

Rolf

23rd Apr 2016 17:06 UTCSusan Robinson

I, and a lot of collectors I know in New York State, would love to have a millerite specimen from the Sterling mine, Antwerp, NY, nearly the size of the one in the Smithsonian. I know this is "dreaming in technicolor", but it's fun to imagine finding a specimen like that, whether it is bought or collected in the field.

24th Apr 2016 15:07 UTCDoug Schonewald

I was born and raised in the Silver Valley of northern Idaho. The Holy Grail(s) for me would be anything from the defunct Silver Valley mines of northern Idaho (if I can ever afford any of them). Particularly the Bunker Hill, Star, Sunshine, and Crescent mines (but also anything from now-defunct historical mines). I worked those in my younger years prior to becoming a collector (wish I was more interested in collecting then instead of only earning a buck).

I still grimace: when I think of opening the adit to the Golden Chest mine near Murray, Idaho and looking at the mineralized veins as I installed timbering and not bothering to chip off a bunch of samples, standing on the crusher grizzly at the Bunker Hill watching boulders with gorgeous ore veins too large for the grizzly being broken up to go to the crusher, of being shown, and offered, beautiful ore samples from the Star, Crescent, Bunker Hill and others now gone and not taking any, of watching tons of mineralized drill cores from a variety of prospects in the Silver Valley and beyond tossed into the trash.

Woulda-shouda-coulda. heartbreaking.....:-)

24th Apr 2016 16:06 UTCMilan Lidmera

Hi everybody,

for me is "Holy Grail" every new piece in my collection, last beatiful otwayite (pseudo after millerite).

Milan

24th Apr 2016 16:22 UTCBob Harman

If you are a calcite or geode collector here are 2 very hi quality examples. Both about 20 cm in max dimension. Holy grails being close, but no cigar as they are out of reach and cannot be extricated from the surrounding limestone matrix. CHEERS.......BOB

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