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Mineral ExchangesBotryoidal sphalerite

5th Feb 2015 22:32 UTCPhilip Bluemner Expert

Hi,

because the term "Schalenblende" isn't known by many people and I've found many references calling it botryoidal sphalerite I'm asking here for samples of botryoidal sphalerite from all over the world.

I know there are several occurences in Canada and the USA. If someone has botryoidal sphalerite from

there or from Australia for instance (Cadjebut Mine, Broken Hill ("brunckite")) or from anywhere else except

-Bleiberg, Carinthia, Austria

-La Calamine, Belgium

-Liege, Belgium

-Seilles, Belgium

-Pine Point, Canada

-Wiesloch, Baden-Württemberg, Germany

-Lahr, Baden-Württemberg, Germany

-Stolberg, Germany

-Raibl, Italy

-Beuthen (Bytom), Poland

-Olkusz, Poland

-Mezica (Miess), Slovenia

-Racine, Wisconsin, USA

-Reocín, Spain

please let me know. I'm very very interested in this variety of sphalerite and it's really hard to find something.

Best regards

Philip

9th Feb 2015 09:51 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Yellow globular sphalerite was described from the Clara mine, Black Forest.

KOLITSCH, U. (1997): Uranosphärit und weitere neue Mineralfunde von der Grube Clara im Schwarzwald. - Mineralien-Welt 8 (3), 18-26.

Sorry, I don't have a sample available.

9th Feb 2015 13:35 UTCKarel Bal

Hi Philip,

I have following specimens available:

- 2 pieces from Dörnberg Mine, Ramsbeck, Germany

- 1 piece from Palomo Mine, Peru ( Galena with botryoidal sphalerite)

Schalenblende

Dörnberg Mine, Olsberg, Hochsauerlandkreis, Arnsberg, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

Galena, etc.

Palomo mines, Castrovirreyna Province, Huancavelica, Peru

Best Regards,

Karel

9th Feb 2015 15:08 UTCPhilip Bluemner Expert

Hi Uwe,

oh really? I just checked the photos at mineralienatlas.de and there is a photo of this kind of sphalerite:

https://www.mineralienatlas.de/lexikon/index.php/Bildanzeige?pict=1288652796

Hi Karel,

thank you for your offer. The Ramsbeck piece would interest me alot. Are you sure it's sphalerite on your Palomo piece? Many of the botryoidal aggregates are orpiment and/or the new anorpiment in yellowish, greenish, brownish.

Best regards

Philip

9th Feb 2015 15:49 UTCBill Cordua 🌟 Manager

Philip

I can't help you much with specimens, but I could expand your locality list. Botryoidal sphalerite is known from the Ives Quarry, Racine County, Wisconsin http://www.mindat.org/photo-555194.html

Globular clusters of sphalerite known as "raspberry ore" is found at several spots in the Upper Mississippi Valley zinc-lead district, such as in Lafayette County, Wisconsin. http://www.mindat.org/photo-555194.html I might be able to provide some of this, but don't think it is exactly what you want.

9th Feb 2015 16:03 UTCKarel Bal

Hi Philip,

When I posted the Palomo pics on my Mindat Home Page as galena covered by orpiment, I received an email from Jaroslav Hyrsl (Peru Paradise of Minerals) that the brown, botryoidal mineral wasn't orpiment or an-orpiment but sphalerite.

Best Regards

Karel

9th Feb 2015 19:23 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

https://www.mineralienatlas.de/lexikon/index.php/Bildanzeige?pict=1288652796

Yes, that looks like the stuff I had analysed. It was found in an assemblage with stibnite(!).

9th Feb 2015 19:37 UTCJames McGuire

Sphalerite

Burgin Mine, East Tintic Mining District, Utah County, Utah, USA

Botryoidal sphalerite also occurs in some specimens from the Burgin Mine, East Tintic District, Utah:

9th Feb 2015 23:33 UTCBen Grguric Expert

Hi Philip,

I have some sliced (not polished) pieces of schalenblende from the Cadjebut mine and some pieces of secondary cream-white brunckite with spots of secondary galena from Broken Hill. They are more like research pieces than display specimens, is that the sort of thing you are looking for?

Ben.

13th Feb 2015 13:31 UTCPhilip Bluemner Expert

Hi everyone,

thanks for the many replies. I don't get notified per e-mail for some reason :-( Yes, in my profile it's checked that I should.

@Bill Cordua

interesting, the Vulcan Materials Company Quarry has been renamed to Ives Quarry. Then yes, I know there's botryoidal sphalerite from there. The specimen shown there under "Schalenblende" is mine. What a beauty!

I wouldn't mind having a piece of that peculiar looking sphalerite. I also like many other sulphides, this thread was dedicated to schalenblende/botryoidal sphalerite. I'll contact you.

@Karel Bal

I'll contact J. Hyrsyl and then get back to you

@Uwe Kolitsch

I'll contact Edgar Müller, perhaps the collection owner has a piece to give away - and perhaps there's even stibnite on it (tu)

@James McGuire

Thanks, I'll contact Dan Weinrich to get some infos about the piece.

@Ben Grguric

Yes please! I'll contact you!

Best regards

Philip

13th Feb 2015 15:28 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

"I don't get notified per e-mail for some reason."

It's a known bug.

13th Feb 2015 22:24 UTCPhilip Bluemner Expert

Thanks, Uwe. Then I'm not responsible.

Btw: there was only one botryoidal sphalerite specimen from the Clara Mine. So it's unique and unreachable.

Have a nice weekend

Philip

14th Feb 2015 08:55 UTCBen Grguric Expert

Botryoidal sphalerite intergrown with wurtzite also occurs at the Lockridge mine, Devon, England. I once wrote a short paper on it with Ernie Nickel. Example photo is http://www.mindat.org/photo-341319.html

I don't have an exchange specimens, but some of the UK dealers might.

14th Feb 2015 12:58 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

Ben,

Are you sure these are schalenblende because they don't look at all like the Schmalgraf or Polish ones.

Philip, good luck with your quest. If you have any spare, please let me know.

Schalenblende is also one of my favourite mineral species.

Paul.

15th Feb 2015 11:11 UTCBen Grguric Expert

The request was for botryoidal sphalerite localities, and several of the Lockridge specimens look botryoidal enough to me. They have a radially fibrous microstructure, and if cut normal to the fibre growth direction and polished, they would probably look a lot like classic schalenblende.

15th Feb 2015 15:27 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

If I had known there was an interest in botryoidal sphalerite I wouldn't have thrown away all the samples I found here over the years, it was very common at one time :-( http://www.mindat.org/loc-256684.htmlu: This is the only piece I kept http://www.mindat.org/photo-428946.html

15th Feb 2015 23:38 UTCPhilip Bluemner Expert

@Paul

Schalenblende from Poland can look like that, too, if the surface layer also is sphalerite. The look doesn't guarantee colloform/gel/botryoidal sphalerite underneath but definitely is a hint.

@Ben

They might, but the prices will be horrendous, I bet.

@Reiner,

No! How could you? I never knew botryoidal sphalerite occured at Dundas Quarry. When was it common? Oh boy...*crying*

Best regards

Philip

16th Feb 2015 00:03 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

Hello Philip,

It was common in the old quarry http://www.mindat.org/loc-254042.html in the 1960's. We were looking for crystals and had no interest in massive botryoidal sphalerite. Some of the sphalerite had vugs in it that contained unusual hollow galena crystals like this http://www.mindat.org/photo-299466.html. Small amounts of botryoidal sphalerite occassionaly showed up in the newer parts of the quarry but never in large pieces like in the 1960's.

16th Feb 2015 11:34 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

Thanks you all for the specifications.

Philip, if it can comfort you, I am crying too.

Nick Carruth used to find these specimens. Mine are coming from him.

But he retired and sold his collection to Ian Bruce of Crystal Classics. http://crystalclassics.co.uk/

Give it a try.

Reiner, do you think it is still possible to collect some there?

Or are there some collector who might have some left ?

Ben, you think this is schalenblende

and :

Schalenblende

Lockridge Mine, East Tamar Consols, Bere Alston Mines, Bere Ferrers, West Devon, Devon, England, UK

I do not doubt a second on your expertise about this but Schalenblende is a mixture of sphalerite and wurtzite and these specimens seems that the sphalerite is not intermixed with the wurtzite. They form layers of sphalerite atop a layer of wurtzite.

Sensu stricto : botryoïdal sphalerite is NOT schalenblende because it mis the intermixed wurtzite.

What do you think ?

Cheers.

Paul.

16th Feb 2015 12:39 UTCPhilip Bluemner Expert

Hi Paul,

I wouldn't call that schalenblende because it's not a compact/dense/amorph gel-type mass but fibrous crystals visible.

Schalenblende does not have to contain wurtzite. In Wiesloch for instance, which is famous for its schalenblende, wurtzite is absent.

Best regards

Philip

16th Feb 2015 13:36 UTCDale Foster Manager

Paul De Bondt Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

But he retired and sold his collection to Ian Bruce of Crystal Classics.

Sorry this is a bit off topic, but Nick would somewhat strongly disagree with your above statement.

He sold his personal collection to a local collector who kept what he wanted out of it and then moved the rest on to the dealer you mention.

16th Feb 2015 17:40 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

Oops Dale, this isn't the story I heard. Sorry to you and Nick.

Philip, these pieces where found on the dumps and are weathered since almost 150 years.

I hope this helps.

Paul.

16th Feb 2015 23:25 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

Hello Paul,

"Reiner, do you think it is still possible to collect some there?

Or are there some collector who might have some left ?"

Unfortunately the quarry is now closed to all collecting and where most of the botryoidal sphalerite came from is under a road ( has been for 30 years). Unfortunately I don't know of any collectors who have any. However there may be the odd piece in an old collection some where and if it is available I will attempt to acquire it. I will let you know if and when that happens.

17th Feb 2015 07:13 UTCDale Foster Manager

Paul De Bondt Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

Oops Dale, this isn't the story I heard. Sorry to you and Nick.

No worries, I have just e-mailed you a letter Nick circulated on this matter.

19th Feb 2015 23:44 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

Thank you Dale.

Reiner, thank you but give Philip the priority as this is his request.

Cheers.

Paul.

20th Feb 2015 09:40 UTCJohn Oostenryk

If you are looking for schalenblende localities, I have seen examples at the dump for the prior, Black Jack Mine, S of Galena, IL. The current owner controls access.

Naturally- now I cannot locate the small specimen I know I kept! Grrr. The material I saw was interesting but tangential to my hunting that day- so did not pursue it. I don't recall it being thickly layered material(in cross section- like Spirifer has from Poland). We were just surface looking, no digging. Much of the rock openly exposed was crumbling due to an unknown long period of freeze thaw- but I would suspect some dedicated inspection and sledge work would expose decent samples.

Earlier in the thread someone noted the drusy, spherical xtl aggregates from this district. I'd heard them called 'strawberries' by one old timer. I collect them from Dubuque, IA area when I can find them flawless:) They do not seem to be layered, per se, in broken cross section. I snapped a quick pic of a favorite specimen to represent the type. Pic does no justice to the whole piece;)

Lastly, I have a single field specimen from the Fletcher Mine in Missouri which I collected during a college field trip underground. I snapped a rough pic now to show the form. It is capped by a bunch of small galena xtls. This was from an area where they were actively mining, Spring 2013. Our group really enjoyed and appreciated that opportunity to tour their operation there!

If you are interested in material from Galena district- send me a PM and we can figure something out.

Best regards,

John O:)

21st Feb 2015 12:35 UTCPhilip Bluemner Expert

Hi,

first of all I want to say thanks that this thread has become so alive. I'm so happy that there have been so many responses.

@John

interesting. So you don't have a Fletcher Mine schalenblende specimen for me? It was Bill Cordua who spoke or "Raspberry Ore". Clusters of several tiny sphalerite crystals of reddish color. Nothing botryoidal or amorphous, but pretty. Your "strawberries" don't resemble strawberries at all, but you gotta give the thing a name, right? The specimen looks really nice, together with the marcasite.

Sending you a PM.

@Paul

That's very kind of you :)

Thanks

Philip

21st Feb 2015 15:38 UTCRoy Starkey 🌟 Manager

This fine specimen (formerly in the NHM) was obtained by the late Richard W. Barstow by exchange in January 1977 - it is accessioned as Botryoidal sphalerite, Fowey Consols mine, Cornwall, and is part of the R.W.Barstow Collection now in Plymouth Museum. Reg. No. PLYMG NH 1986.11.861

The specimen measures 95 x 60 mm and featured as fig.78 in UKJMM No.31

Hope that is of some interest.

Regards

Roy

21st Feb 2015 16:00 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

Hi all,

John, the first specimen looks like schalenblende to me.

So if you have 2 specimens, think of me please.

Philip, if we can't be kind to each other, what would be our purpose on earth ?

Mineral collecting is not a race or competition as some may believe, it's a pleasure to do.

Roy, yes, that's a schalenblende IMHO. Look at the right where a little piece is broken off the botryoïds. The zoning is clearly visible.

I have a small one because my wallet was not strong enough and I never had a good one offered.

They seems pretty rare.

I hope this helps.

Best regards from Belgium.

Paul.

2nd Mar 2015 00:52 UTCJohn Oostenryk

Hello Guys- I apologize for the slow reply.

I knew there was a notification issue with PM's, I didnt' realize it was also with following a topic!

Phillip- I got your note- check the reply:)

I agree, they look more like a blackberry to me!

Paul- I am sorry, it is the only one I have. I do know my professor had a bunch of material. Let me look in collections, maybe there is some in there? Don't hold your breath though, :)

Honestly- embarrassing- I didn't remember having this bit... I saved it for the little galenas on top I guess- and found it the other night looking for that Blackjack piece....

Paul- if you are serious fan, I can certainly look into material at ol' BlackJack Mine.

Also embarassingly, I SWEAR I have one, but it is just NOT coming out of hiding. I spent an hour looking the night I posted pics, to no avail... but I may have given it away:( I don't have THAT much stuff to sort thru, but it is thumb, and I am in midst of construction phase so stuff is all boxed. I know where it WAS, that is the annoying part, LoL!!

Just have to wait till spring melt- mid April at this rate.

If I had my way- I would go tomorrow! Ha- but nothing to see except snow:(

I will keep ya posted~

4th Jun 2016 13:38 UTCPhilip Bluemner Expert

Hi,

anyone have too much schalenblende to give to me? :)

Cheers

Philip

31st Dec 2016 08:41 UTCPhilip Bluemner Expert

Hi,

my newest purchase. If the sphalerite is Fe-rich due to its color?

31st Dec 2016 12:48 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

The more iron the darker the sphalerite.

31st Dec 2016 20:49 UTCPhilip Bluemner Expert

What I thought. There isn't much Fe-rich schalenblende

1st Jan 2017 05:39 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Philip, there is an amorphous botryoidal ZnS from Bolivia called Gumucionite - http://www.mindat.org/min-1775.html

English references (including Mindat) call this (probably wrongly) a "variety" of sphalerite, based on a comment by Michael Fleischer that he thought it was just sphalerite colored reddish by realgar inclusions. Fleischer did no tests on the material, but nevertheless his comment became a sort of "unofficial" discreditation of Gumucionite.

As Mindat says: "The colour is thought to be caused by admixed realgar throughout." ... Isn't it amazing how a 1-sentence opinion by a mineralogist (Fleischer) who, as far as I know, had no access to a specimen, and did no testing, has been extrapolated to "it is thought"... a fuzzy grammar that implies lots of people think so?

3rd Jan 2017 17:09 UTCAdrián Pesudo

Hi Philip,

are you interested in samples like this:

http://bbdd.minval.org/foto.php?foto=7_272_20091204135910G.jpg&min=Esfalerita&tamanyo=6x5%20cms

it is from Hozor del Regajo mine, Villahermosa del Río, Castellón Province, Valencian Comunity, Spain

or like this sample of brotoidal sphalerite:

http://bbdd.minval.org/foto.php?foto=6_254_20091203185600G.jpg&min=Esfalerita&tamanyo=4%20x%203,5cm

it is from San Vicente Ferrer mine from Lucena, Castellón Prov. too.

Have a new year 2017!,

Adrián

4th Jan 2017 17:31 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Just uploaded photo of globular sphalerite from the famous Clara mine:

http://www.mindat.org/photo-794328.html

5th Jan 2017 10:01 UTCPhilip Bluemner Expert

Hello Alfredo,

the photo of Gumucionite shown on mindat is my specimen. the label says it has a low As content. I can give the specimen for analysis if that helps.

Why isn't a variety?

Hello Adrián,

thank you for your reply. The first specimen from Hoz del Regajo looks very interesting to me. This is what I'm looking for. The second piece from San Vicente Ferrer looks like a more or less spherical looking sphalerite crystal. If the sphalerite underneath is crystallized and not amorph, then it's not for me here.

Hello Uwe,

you showed me that once. Nice piece, but unreachable. :D

Best regards

Philip

6th Jan 2017 14:01 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

These specimens came in just before Christmas.

They come from a locality that has not been precised yet.

I will update the schalenblende page when I have all the detail.

Schalenblende

Chipping Sodbury Quarry, Sodbury, South Gloucestershire, Gloucestershire, England, UK

Zenjoy.

Paul.

6th Jan 2017 15:34 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Philip, it would be interesting to x-ray your gumucionite and see whether it gives a sphalerite pattern or is amorphous. At least some of the Siglo XX gumucionites are amorphous ZnS and so don't match sphalerite.

31st Jan 2017 07:35 UTCPhilip Bluemner Expert

Hello Alfredo,

I've sent my specimen to Günter Blaß to have it analyzed.

Philip

4th Apr 2017 20:25 UTCPhilip Bluemner Expert

Hello Alfredo,

I received results. It is crystalline sphalerite without any impurities.

Best regards

Philip

4th Apr 2017 20:37 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Thanks, Philip! That certainly looks perfectly crystallized. Do those very tiny peaks match realgar lines?

4th Apr 2017 23:05 UTCScott Rider

I'm surprised that no one mentioned Washington, as there are numerous locations that have excellent samples:

Spokane, Spokane Co., Washington, USA : https://www.mindat.org/loc-4575.html

Silver Lake Railroad Trestle, Silver Lake, Cowlitz Co., Washington, USA: https://www.mindat.org/loc-15037.html

Coulee City Marina, Coulee City, Grant Co., Washington, USA: https://www.mindat.org/loc-267449.html

Dixie area, Dixie, Walla Walla Co., Washington, USA: https://www.mindat.org/loc-19302.html

4th Apr 2017 23:29 UTCPeter Nancarrow 🌟 Expert

Regarding the comment earlier in this thread that "the higher the iron the darker the colour" of sphalerite.

Whilst that is generally true, a darker colour isn't invariably due to higher Fe. I once did some microprobe analyses of banded sphalerite from North Wales and found that the darker bands correlated with a higher Cd:Zn ratio rather than higher Fe:Zn.

Pete N

4th Apr 2017 23:34 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

It's also possible to get zoned sphalerite crystals with zones rich in metallic microparticles of chalcopyrite, roquesite, etc, which would presumably make the spalerite look darker without necessarily any chemical substitution in the sphalerite itself.

5th Apr 2017 08:57 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

Scott, I think you are mixing sphalerite and sphaerosiderite.

Peter, do you have perhaps a pic of such a banded sphalerite from Wales, and the localities where they occur, please.

Would like to ad these to the schalenblende page.

Thanks.

Paul.

5th Apr 2017 11:08 UTCPeter Nancarrow 🌟 Expert

Paul,

The specimen wasn't mine, and I don't have any photos of it. The analysis was one of many I did for BGS regional geochemical surveys, and was done about 30 years ago.

I remember that the specimen in question was from The Snowdonia district, but I can't find my copy of the report (buried somewhere in the back of the attic somewhere I suspect!), so I cannot be absolutely certain about the precise locality, but I think it was the Britannia Mine, even though I see that sphalerite is not on the mineral list for that mine.

When I find my report files (an attic clearout is on this spring's "To-Do" list!) if I can confirm that it was The Britannia Mine, I will add sphalerite to its mineral list.

Pete N

5th Apr 2017 16:35 UTCScott Rider

Indeed, I see that. However isn't that considered a varietal of sphalerite? So wouldn't that count? Just asking, not trying to be argumentative...

5th Apr 2017 17:06 UTCThomas Lühr Expert

Scott

No. Sphaerosiderite is a variety of siderite. It is related to the siderite in the same kind like the schalenblende to sphalerite(wurtzite).

5th Apr 2017 20:45 UTCPhilip Bluemner Expert

Hi Alfredo,

I can't tell, I'm not so familiar with such diagrams.

Günter Blaß examined my piece, so you might want to ask him or I can ask him for you.

If all gumucionites from Siglo Veinte look like mine (I've seen more when they came out, but noone else seems to have a specimen photogtaphed), then they might all be just plain sphalerite?

Best regards

Philip

1st Apr 2018 16:37 UTCTim Jokela Jr

Reiner gives good info on the Dundas quarry botryoidal sphalerite.

The sulfide vein that produced it is long gone, alas.

I've collected there since the nineties, and found botryoidal sphalerite to be exceedingly rare; I have perhaps two somewhat decent pieces, and nothing like the polished layered specimen Reiner has. They were etched from under a calcite coating.

A sulfide vein was exposed in the floor of the quarry, sometime in the nineties if I recall. It never produced anything like the material Reiner found, but it was cool stuff. Magnificent variety of micro pyrite, marcasite, but sadly afflicted by the voracious pyrite disease. Silver lining: at least five different interesting micro minerals formed from the decomposition.

I've begun culling my Dundas collection; if I find a botryoidal sphalerite I can part with, I'll keep you in mind.

The quarry used to be friendly to collectors, but the multinational aggregate company that owns it now are a pack of bastards. Collectors are banned, and they gleefully send countless magnificent celestine, fluorite, calcite, sphalerite, and marcasite crystals straight to the crusher.

Oh, the fun times we used to have at Dundas!

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