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Improving Mindat.orgIrradiated smoky quartz?!

31st Oct 2007 16:46 UTCGiorgio Bogni

I think this is an irradiated smoky quartz: http://www.mindat.org/photo-108995.html or not?! Better is write on the descriptiom the nature of the color!

1st Nov 2007 13:13 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Agreed - it's not a natural colour.

Jolyon

1st Nov 2007 15:12 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Complaint sent.

1st Nov 2007 17:22 UTCBryan Davis

This is not natural? I see specimens similar to this at shows all the time (always well out of my price range), but none of the dealers have ever told me that they were irradiated. I can see why they do it, it really brings out the color of the dolomite, but i would hate to have bought one and later found out it was not natural. Are there any specimens of smoky quartz like this coming out of romanian that are natural?

1st Nov 2007 18:30 UTCMark Wrigley Expert

No definitely not - all the contemporary specimens of this habit started life as ordinary white quartz from Maramares (Cavnic, Baia Sprie etc) - then appear to get irradiated in Hungary.

There is naturally occuring "morion" in some of the Maramares mines but is a pale smoky colour and most of the pieces I have seen are just quartz.

Also some of the localities in the Brad - Sacaramb gold areas produced smoky quartz, but I have only seen specimens in old collections - usually with rhodochrosite......

2nd Nov 2007 08:38 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Comment added by uploader.

2nd Nov 2007 10:11 UTCFerdinando Giovine

But, if it is irradiated, I think necessary to eliminate "var. Smoky Quartz"

2nd Nov 2007 11:03 UTCGiorgio Bogni

Very appreciated the comment about the treatment added at the specimen description. regarding to delete the name of the mineral species (var.Smoky Quartz) this is a smoky quartz at all, even if the smoky colour appears by others reasons and not natural. I think that aspect about treatments in mineral specimens bears a deep discussion from the scientific world, as happened for "slag minerals".

3rd Nov 2007 04:45 UTCDon Saathoff Expert

Giorgio, in my personal opinion, I don't feel there can be a comparison between 'post-mining' minerals, 'slag' minerals and intentionally 'treated' minerals. Granted, post-mining occurrances and slag occurrances are the product of human activity but they are both un-intentional....AND quartz usually gets it's smokiness from local natural radiation, but to intentionally irradiate quartz for the effect is like intentionally painting a bar of lead w/ gold paint to achieve the effect of elemental gold. Only my opinion!!

3rd Nov 2007 07:39 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

These fake smokey quartzes have no place on mindat except in a "fake" gallery, in my opinion, and I would also argue they have no place in a serious mineral collection, except for the same reason, to demonstrate a common fake.

There are a lot of these quartzes here at the Munich show.

Jolyon

3rd Nov 2007 08:47 UTCGiorgio Bogni

And not only in a Munich show, Jolyon!!! In every mineral show and in a lot of collection there is irradiated quartz (smokey), heated amethyst (citrine), painted agate, gypsum in all colors, the "new" heliodore from tadjkistan, some suspect spodumene...is a very jungle with this mineral!!!

I'm agree, the smoky quartz irradiate is fake, but this tretment is stable and irreversible, for a gemmology is only "smoky quartz"!

Different question is paint in gold color...or sintetic/artificial crystals!

For my personal collection is "fake smoky quartz"!

I think is necessary create a fake gallery for help the collector, now this part of "mineralogy" is a drammatic reality!

3rd Nov 2007 10:12 UTCSimone Boscolo Expert

I quote. It should be very important create a "fake minerals gallery" to preserve every collector, young collectors in paticular and the reputation of true mineral's sellers.

Sorry for my english.

Simone Boscolo

9th Nov 2007 11:55 UTCZbynek Burival Expert

Yep, once money came into business this will happen more and more. Specimens are extremely overpriced, local miners got just few % of the final price on the market etc. Many dealers are even more greedish and produce fakes, I really have no mercy with this. Its simply cheating and thats it.

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