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GeneralWhat are YOUR priorities for mindat in 2017?

9th Dec 2016 18:26 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

It's getting close to the end of the year (although the mindat.org "work" year begins and ends with the Tucson show) so it's time we start to plan what I am going to work on over the next year to make mindat.org even better.

So... now everyone has their say. Whether you're a regular or have never posted before your comments are just as important.

Is there something new you'd like to see here?

Is there something you would like to see done better?

Please comment away! I can't guarantee to respond to every suggestion, but I'll try to summarise all of them at the end and let you know what we will be trying to do.

Jolyon

9th Dec 2016 18:40 UTCAntonio Nazario

Fix the photos questioned bug

9th Dec 2016 18:55 UTCKelly Nash 🌟 Expert

The search function on the home page is almost useless for finding localities. The original one worked well, but can only be reached through Advance Search>More Search Options.

9th Dec 2016 19:05 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Kelly, can you explain with examples what doesn't work and exactly which other script it works from

9th Dec 2016 19:20 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

I use the locality and mineral search on the home page. No problem. Often i time 1 name or word and my result shows. Sometimes there are more common names and i have results in a couple countries. Sometimes a common name in a region results in many mines per state.

9th Dec 2016 19:28 UTCKelly Nash 🌟 Expert

This seems to have gotten better, and I wish I had saved some examples from past unsuccessful searches. The most common issue for me is when the locality name is a word in the glossary. For example, "Keystone" is a town in South Dakota and is on a lot of mineral labels. Entering that in the search window only gets you the definition of the word keystone, no localities.

9th Dec 2016 19:30 UTCScott Rider

One thing I would like to see is a slightly better search, when it comes to misspelled words. Somewhat like what Google does if you misspell something...

If I don't have the locality's correct spelling, 9 out of 10 times I won't be able to find that location. I am not the best at spelling foreign words, so searching for stuff can be difficult.

9th Dec 2016 19:44 UTCAlex Homenuke 🌟 Expert

I agree about locality only. "Apex Mine Utah" comes to mind as a recent search. Much of the world showed up

9th Dec 2016 20:02 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

i can see the glossary thing being annoying.

Similarly if you're searching for a mineral name and it goes directly to the mineral page but actually you wanted a list of all mineral names containing that name it isn't great (note: the search at the bottom does things that way).

I have an idea for this. Let me think about best way to implement it.

Jolyon

9th Dec 2016 20:02 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

When anyone comes up with bad search examples do let me know here! this really helps a lot.

9th Dec 2016 20:06 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

"The search function on the home page is almost useless for finding localities. The original one worked well, but can only be reached through Advance Search>More Search Options." - If you use the locality search on the bottom of the page, you in essence are using the old search routine.

"One thing I would like to see is a slightly better search, when it comes to misspelled words. Somewhat like what Google does if you misspell something..."

We do look for slightly misspelled words. Your best bet would be a single word and not multiple words (we would match the properly spelled words and not go into the routine that checks for misspelled words).

The first pass looks to find the search string in the locality strings. If there is no match and you have multiple words, we go in and try to find the localities that match the most words in the search string. If it is a single word, then we go in and get the lowest levenshtein string distance matches.

9th Dec 2016 20:25 UTCJeff Weissman Expert

There used to be a feature in which for any given mineral-locality combination, only the top 10 would be displayed when looking at photos in that particular locality, with an option to see the remainder. Would like to have something similar brought back.

9th Dec 2016 21:09 UTCThomas Lühr Expert

I would like to have a button at the photo upload that alowes me to EXCLUDE a photo from the species gallery but let it show up in the locality galleries.

As a regional oriented collector (in a relatively narrow area) i want to show at least one photo for each mineral entry for a certain locality. Of course some species may be only (known) in poor quality and would be worthless in the species gallery.

As a level 2 member i'm concerned to contaminate the species galleries with such photos. On the other hand it's a loss for the site galleries.

Furthermore i think that less photos would end up as "user only" if there were a "locality galleries only" option for the managers to put a photo in (following the suggestion of the uploader or not).

Thomas

9th Dec 2016 21:24 UTCJamison K. Brizendine 🌟 Expert

There is one improvement that I would like to see: A symbol next to a mineral that was found at a locality that is not native to the local geology.

For example, the mineral list for Cleveland, Ohio (http://www.mindat.org/loc-55051.html) lists Diamond as the only mineral found there (in fact all diamonds found in Ohio are of glacial origin). E. Carlson (1991) also made it clear that the diamond was found in a creek bed, south of Cleveland. On Mindat's mineral list, though, it gives the impression that diamonds are native to Cleveland.

My suggestion would be to add a simple asterisk or another symbol next to a mineral (similar to the silver and gold stars for "exceptional quality") that could be used to note that the published mineral that was found in a locality was not native (i.e. of glacial origin) to the locality.

9th Dec 2016 22:00 UTCBecky Coulson 🌟 Expert

In regard to the Cleveland list, why are photos of marcasite and halite/anhydrite shown, but only diamond listed? I have noticed this for a few other localities - photos of minerals shown but not listed. Should we mention this to managers when we notice the discrepancy?

I have liked most of the changes to Mindat, but there is one change that I find poor - the new map symbols indicating multiple localities. The symbols are large and intrusive, whereas the old Mindat crystal symbol did not obliterate so much space on the map. When I click on the new symbol, say blue for example, the area is then shown in blue (even in the satellite mode), which makes it difficult to view the overall area on maps. If you click on a single locality, this goes away, but is annoying if you want to see a view incorporating the few nearby sites.

PS - this is the description given for Cleveland!! "Creek a few miles south of town in Wisconsian gravels"

9th Dec 2016 22:03 UTCKelly Nash 🌟 Expert

David - Slapping forehead, in the hundreds of times I've been on the home page, I don't think I've ever scrolled all the way to the bottom and seen that locality search window - thanks!

9th Dec 2016 22:39 UTCGeorge Creighton

No more forum updates in 2017

Until we forum minions ( non computer literate ) get used to the 2016 ones

Regards

9th Dec 2016 22:46 UTCTomas Husdal Expert

More options under "Search catalogue", making it possible to display only samples with for example beryllium, zeolites, tetragonal minerals and so on.

9th Dec 2016 23:46 UTCDouglas Merson 🌟 Expert

I would still like to see an option on the photo upload page to designate a photo as intended for my catalog catalog. It would be nice to have a photo for each entry but do not want to clutter photo pages with many similar photos.

admin would still have option to make photo available site wide.

10th Dec 2016 00:09 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

> I would like to have a button at the photo upload that alowes me to EXCLUDE a photo from the species gallery but let it show up in the locality galleries.

This is actually a very good idea

(not that the other ideas are bad, but this one is something that I certainly want to start thinking about)

10th Dec 2016 01:16 UTCBeth Heesacker

When I do a search for a location and then look at the mineral photos, maybe I get down 3 or 4 (or more) pages into the photos and want to go back to the location page. I cannot do that as far as I can see without backing up pages.

My example:

Search for Tonopah-Belmont. Look at the mineral photos. Get in a few pages and in the top of the page can only click and go to Belmont Mountain unless I back up however many pages I have looked at. Why not also link to the original Tonopah-Belmont location page?

Also when I forget to log in, but try to post a message, I get the error that I need to enter the author name. Why not just say, "log in, stupid" or just some other clearer notification. :-)

Thanks.

10th Dec 2016 02:35 UTCBill Cordua 🌟 Manager

Expand the ability of the editors to correct or delete misleading “regional geology “ sections added by “bot fiat” to certain localities. Two examples of sites where I have done research and find the errors particularly frustrating: http://www.mindat.org/loc-27704.html and http://www.mindat.org/loc-170915.html

10th Dec 2016 07:04 UTCPhil M. Belley Expert

A proper article system where things are easy to search and find.

Maybe have article Tags, and they can show up under some main categories (Science, locality, specimen mineralogy, geology, show report, specimen prep, history). I'd actually consider writing articles here if it had a comprehensive system. Otherwise, what's the point?

A little work, I think, would go a long way into bringing new exciting content from more authors, and more traffic on existing articles.

10th Dec 2016 11:51 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Lots of great ideas here. Thank you all for your contributions!

As for the article system there are two different ways this needs to be addressed.

Firstly, there is strong demand for a system that allows people to upload PDF format articles - I have been resistant to this in the past for many reasons, but I also understand benefits this can give. So this will happen over the next year.

Secondly, we have already done some work on expanding the article system to allow some level of interactivity for interactive educational articles. This is going to be fun, and useful!

Jolyon

10th Dec 2016 12:51 UTCGary Moldovany

The option of entering PDF format articles is particularly of interest to me, since I had to re-write my last article entirely, even though I already completed it in PDF and Word. I was somewhat dismayed to see the finished article in Mindat format. The sentence structure was all wrong, paragraphs were not indented, etc. That was not the way I had written it, although it was correct in the draft. I think this area needs work. I agree that the advanced search option needs some overhaul too. Gary

10th Dec 2016 12:54 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Pasting article content from Word or a PDF into a mindat article does need some attention to remove any unwanted line break characters and to insert them where you want them to actually be.

10th Dec 2016 13:20 UTCJoshua Chambers

Perhaps adding the ability to search for fluorescence in the 'minerals by properties' search.

Also, spellling minerals or localities wrong (even if only by one letter) when using the search bar often doesn't bring up the locality and takes a very long time to load. Perhaps implementing a drop down list of' minerals/localities that are spelt similarly to your misspelt word, like Google and other search engines have.

Josh

10th Dec 2016 13:55 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

"Why not also link to the original Tonopah-Belmont location page? " A workaround for that is that all the photos have a link to the locality page for that particular locality. You can click on that to go to the location. (also most browsers also give you the ability to skip back several pages in the history - for chrome, you get there by holding on to the mouse click button.)

10th Dec 2016 15:04 UTCVik Vanrusselt Expert

A way to have "My catalogue" automatically generated from "My Photos", and to have both synchronized whenever I add a specimen in either one.

That way (when I finally get round to adding the specimens in my personal collection to "My Catalogue"), I won't have to add everything manually all over again, but just the information on the specimens that are not yet in "My Photos".

I discussed this idea with you, Jolyon, at the 2016 mineral show in Ghent, Belgium, and you told me you would consider it ;-)

Vik

10th Dec 2016 16:27 UTCD. Peck

I don't know if this would work here, but the U.S. Federal Census developed the Soundex Coding System that locates items (names) by the way they sound, not the way they are spelled. I applied it to the list of mineral names, and it worked for me with about 4000 names. Might be worth looking into.

10th Dec 2016 23:48 UTCEd Clopton 🌟 Expert

Thanks for soliciting input!

Please provide a way to look up a photo by photo ID alone in one step.

As it is, to find a photo by ID I go to Advanced Search > Search For > Photo where the only options are Mineral Name, Locality Name, and Keyword. The Photo ID is not recognized in the Keyword field here, so I just enter some gibberish which fails and directs me to a very helpful "Search For Photo" screen (wherever that comes from) with lots of options including a field for Photo ID. Then I can enter the photo ID I'm looking for and it takes me right to it.

Maybe change the current Advanced Search > Search For > Photo to accept "Keyword or Photo ID" in the last field?

11th Dec 2016 13:10 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

When looking at the mineral photo gallery for a given locality, it would be nicer if the order they appeared in would default to "mineral name A-Z" instead of the random, useless, mysterious "rating" order. Thanks!

11th Dec 2016 16:04 UTCDoug Schonewald

I would like to be able to choose a class in the chemical search, i.e. Carbonates (nitrides), and click search minerals and be able to see all the minerals in that class. Maybe that is supposed to work, but unless you choose elements you get nothing. It is a pain to click every mineral to get something to come up. Not every element would be found in every class but it would be nice just to be able to view all those minerals in a single group. I believe there is some value in that.

11th Dec 2016 18:23 UTCBecky Coulson 🌟 Expert

I've mentioned this to a couple of managers, but will suggest it here as well. I think we should have a "New Books" or "Book Reviews" section, perhaps under the literature section.

As it stands, Mindat has a fundamental rule - stated in a couple of places in the manual - that absolutely no advertising is allowed unless the poster is paying to advertise. It further states that any such post will be removed. Yet occasionally, new book information has been posted, along with contact information (for purchase), price, and a description. I had no objection to this, but it was in direct contradiction to your stated rules and I objected to that - allowing some advertising gave the appearance of whimsical approval, depending upon the manager.

Mindat is now an "outreach program", with the goals of informing and educating. I think that Mindat should allow new mineralogical books to be posted, along with the description, price, and how to purchase. Informing the public about new material, and making access to those books easy, is a natural progression for an outreach program. Critical reviews, if available, could be added to the information.

11th Dec 2016 19:54 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

Jolyon, there has been a lot of discussion about goals and priorities on the management forum, should we summarise some of this here? It would probably help if you gave a summary of accomplishments over the last year, and what is in progress, and in plan?

11th Dec 2016 20:00 UTCBarry Flannery Expert

Can you implement a batch photo uploader? I know that you can't open multiple browser windows as the server rejects you as it unfairly uses too much resources for a single user. However, it is possible to implement a sequential batch uploader so that I can leave a series of photographs uploading and then come back an hour or two later and fill in all of the data at once? It would significantly streamline the upload process for me.

I'm also still anxious to see support for photogrammetry. Sketchfab has simple embedded viewer technology that's straightforward to implement.

12th Dec 2016 18:53 UTCJim Robison

Maybe it's my browser, but there is inconsistency in going from a summary link to the most current comment. Sometimes it happens, but for multiple page items it doesn't.

It would sure be nice to have the Mindat home page symbol at the bottom of a thread page as well as the top. Would make it much easier to get back to home at the end of a long page of comments.

12th Dec 2016 20:44 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

I like the idea of a bulk photo loader, but it may need limits, someone will try to upload their whole photo album!

I would like to see the mineral/location search bar presently on the bottom at the top of the scree, as thats what i use most of all.

12th Dec 2016 22:59 UTCDana Morong

A "book review" section would require that contributors compose and post reviews that are complete and objective. Unfortunately I have seen too many book reviews (in mineralogical literature) that were not objective. There have been some good ones in American Mineralogist, and there have been some subjective ones in another magazine which I shall not mention (I like to read it, but I realize that its reviews are simply not objective enough). And I have seen, in amazon.com, some very positive reviews (very subjective, which made me wonder if they ever actually read the book) for a book which I thought was just terrible. So there lies the problem - it takes time and work to produce a review that is designed to help others know what is in the book and whether it can be useful to them. Just a bunch of comments such as 'great book' or 'it stinks' is not going to help others know what is really in it. Perhaps, if no separate book review section is made, then the literature section be made to include book reviews? Just an idea.

12th Dec 2016 23:53 UTCDebbie Woolf Manager

Ed Clopton Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks for soliciting input!

>

> Please provide a way to look up a photo by photo

> ID alone in one step.

>

> As it is, to find a photo by ID I go to Advanced

> Search > Search For > Photo where the only options

> are Mineral Name, Locality Name, and Keyword. The

> Photo ID is not recognized in the Keyword field

> here, so I just enter some gibberish which fails

> and directs me to a very helpful "Search For

> Photo" screen (wherever that comes from) with lots

> of options including a field for Photo ID. Then I

> can enter the photo ID I'm looking for and it

> takes me right to it.

>

> Maybe change the current Advanced Search > Search

> For > Photo to accept "Keyword or Photo ID" in the

> last field?

Ed, when I want to find a photo that I know the ID of I usually open up any photo and change the ID numbers (www. mindat. org / photo-523968.html), its the quickest way I know :-)

13th Dec 2016 03:43 UTCD. Peck

I think a book review section is a good idea and I agree with Dana's concerns. Maybe this is one area where the reviewers should be invited rather than having it as an open forum. Or perhaps short comments could be allowed following the review.

13th Dec 2016 05:01 UTCBruce Cairncross Expert

My comment on book reviews might be seen to have conflict of interest (as an author), but it would be a useful addition to Mindat. It might also be a way for Mindat to build up its library. Publishers would be required to send a copy of the book, either hard-copy or PDF, to Mindat, and then Jolyon or one of the managers could then forward this to a suitable Mindat member to objectively review. This is the standard procedure for most reviews. I know the publisher of some of my books in Cape Town would happily donate copies for review. Yes, they might benefit from the advertising, but the authors of mineral-type books don't get rich from this sort of publicity ;-) And I agree with Dana that there is currently a grey area surrounding this topic as I've already posted something (not a review) about my books when the post has deemed to be for educational and not financial reasons.

13th Dec 2016 05:22 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

"directs me to a very helpful "Search For Photo" screen (wherever that comes from) with lots of options including a field for Photo ID. Then I can enter the photo ID I'm looking for and it takes me right to it."

To get there

Advanced Search

More Search options

Original Photo Search form

13th Dec 2016 05:50 UTCJoel Dyer

A wish for 2017: that Mindat is able to gather together more Managerial resources for photo approval: I think I've wished this before already.

I believe I'm not the only person using Mindat that is frustrated by having to wait often 2 weeks or so for having even pictures of 100% clear cases like quartz or other common minerals approved into any galleries. That is one reason I personally post much of my pictures elsewhere nowadays: it's such a "turn-off" sometimes. Difficult cases where rare minerals or minerals extremely unlikely for a locality are involved I do understand, truly.

Surely is is not impossible to find more qualified persons to help Mindat with the job of approving photos? As always, the upploader can be requested via PM or email to state why the photo is posted as claimed, so teh uploader can get cracking ans supply satisfactory answers.

I really wonder why simple, common minerals cannot be approved for localities by perhaps some less-than-world's-best experts, who are always over-loaded with work from their toenails, to the top of their heads...Is there any such delegation or work sharing system in place already?

Anyways, a Big Thanks for the approvements made in 2016 & I wish another successful and happy 2017 for Mindat & co-members!

Cheers,

13th Dec 2016 08:19 UTCBecky Coulson 🌟 Expert

Dana and Donald,

I agree that reviews for books can be problematic, and I was thinking along the lines of reviews we read in our peer-reviewed journals, not Amazon-type reviews. Peer reviews would require volunteers, and that may not be possible because of the time required of them. This is also why I suggested either a review section or a "New Books" section, which could simply describe/advertise the book and make it easily available. The books would also need to be approved by managers to avoid "new age" type nonsense.

13th Dec 2016 10:36 UTCBruce Cairncross Expert

I agree with Becky. Reviews should be of the type that appear in the professional journals. I purchased a copy of the latest Namibia II book at the Munich show recently and would be happy to volunteer to objectively review this for Mindat (if a Section is created for such purposes).

13th Dec 2016 11:18 UTCSteve Sorrell Expert

Bill - what is "bot fiat"? Neither I or Mr Google knows :-D

Regards

Steve

13th Dec 2016 11:22 UTCBruce Cairncross Expert

Is it possible to sort the locality references into alphabetical order based on first author name rather than date order as is the current format? This is a more generally accepted style in most publications. I know the latter gives one a good idea of what's old and what's current, but for some localities with many references its a bit frustrating scrolling around to look for a particular article when you have the author's name.

13th Dec 2016 11:29 UTCSteve Sorrell Expert

Jim Robison Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It would sure be nice to have the Mindat home page symbol at the bottom of a thread page as well as the top. Would make it much easier to get back to home at the end of a long page of comments.

Jim - there is a link "Go to top of page" at the bottom under the Privacy Policy link :-)

Regards

Steve

13th Dec 2016 11:58 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

I agree that streamlining the photo and location approval systems would greatly help managers and thus everyone.

13th Dec 2016 12:00 UTCUwe Ludwig

There are a lot of comments to the search tools of mindat. However, I would like to dicuss one thing which has influence of the mindat rules.

I fully understand that the users of this site shall not be a competion to the big mineral dealers which are main sponsors of mindat. But why shall we not have the possibilty to make our offers to this main sponsors only? I know that is a difficult thing to realize but possibly it should be checked. May be a thread which is only visitable for selected dealers and for the respectiv seller.

The background of my question is the fact, that in this time and in the next time some of the old miners in our region (Erzgebirge) will pass away but for their mineral collections there is often nobody of their family who is interested in. I‘m the chairman of a local mineral club and often I am the first contact person of the remaining family.

The local market is mostly full of local specimen resp. the local dealers are not willing to accept a reasonable price (below 50% of the market price). On the other side I see (looking to minfind) that for example the prices in the US are abt. 300 to 400 % higher than here. At last it could be a win-win situation for both sides. The sponsors get new interesting materail and the potential seller get a fair price.

Best Regards

Uwe Ludwig

13th Dec 2016 13:03 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

We need to remove this confusing and misleading "erratic" section from the Location pages and replace it with a more detailed geology section, incluing actual ages and relationships of host rocks, ores, etc.

We should think about having more expandable sections, as for locations on mineral pages, for things like rocktypes, geology, etc., to make them more readable.

13th Dec 2016 14:07 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

"its a bit frustrating scrolling around to look for a particular article when you have the author's name."

In that case you could use the search function of your browser (usually CRTL+F).

13th Dec 2016 14:16 UTCBruce Cairncross Expert

"In that case you could use the search function of your browser (usually CRTL+F)."

OK, got that, but it requires two further "mechanisms" - pressing CTRL-F and then entering the name and then seeing where it is highlighted in the list. Maybe I'm just too used to using the references / bibliographies of journals and books where one can go direct to the alphabetical name one is looking for in the A-Z list...

13th Dec 2016 14:53 UTCRonnie Van Dommelen 🌟 Manager

My suggestion (but I haven't thought through potential pitfalls):

Have a database of journal references. Right now the references are a mess with many different styles being used. And many are used multiple times around MinDat. If we had a single list, then when adding a new reference, the user could check an existing list (similar to the locality/mineral finder when uploading pics) and if it is not there it can be added new. And on that same entry page, a reference to the proper style would be available. This would improve consistency across the site.

13th Dec 2016 15:25 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Ronnie, this is something I am actively working on now. I have a bit of reluctance from contributors used to entering references in the old way because they feel it will slow them down, but I believe this is essential for us moving forwards.

13th Dec 2016 15:43 UTCBruce Cairncross Expert

As a regular user of, and someone who adds to the references, one centralized reference database would be ideal. Jolyon: would it be alphabetical or chronological? I hope the former but not sure how other users feel about this?

13th Dec 2016 16:09 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Once we have a database of references you'll be able to switch between alphabetical (by author), alphabetical (by journal) and chronological at will.

13th Dec 2016 16:11 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Ronnie & Bruce,

I use a bibliography list (Word documents) when I am working on the localities in the individual states in the USA. I construct the lists as I encounter the references and list them in alphabetical order (traditional manner). A single list would probably be prohibitively huge. My California document in over 400 pages (12 pitch font) alone! I am now using Windows 10 and Chrome and find it very, very easy and fast to search the bibliography list to find, copy & then paste the references into the Mindat files reference block spelled out in full (our policy now). I will be posting this document when I finish California files.

There are the caveats though. This/these documents, once posted, would require diligence in updating them as new references are found & used. This could be another formidable task. If each manager, expert and other users volunteered to initiate and maintain such reference lists for their particular areas of expertise/interest, it might become a reality.

Chet

13th Dec 2016 16:20 UTCEllen Faller

Correcting all the inaccurate American Journal of Science references. Somehow, the relevant series, volumes, and issue numbers for many references have become inaccurate.

13th Dec 2016 16:39 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

I believe what Jolyon is talking about for the references would have the reference entered into the following separate fields (and different fields for books and chapters in books)

Author(s)

Year of publication

Title

Journal name

volume

issue

page numbers

So if you are copy pasting into this (less error prone than typing), instead of a single copy/paste, you are going to have to do 7.

14th Dec 2016 02:58 UTCJim Robison

Steve

After diligent looking my tired old eyes found the really tiny go to top of page link, but it is really obscure, and in any event doesn't do what I often want after looking at a page, and that is to go back to the Mindat home page. Granted I can find, eventually, the top of page link, buy why do that just to get to the home page graphic link. Having that link also at the bottom of the page is what I am looking for. If I want to go back to the last page of the forum index I simply hit back, but that doesn't take me still to Home.

14th Dec 2016 08:00 UTCSteve Sorrell Expert

Noted Jim :-D

Jolyon, one suggestion from me regarding photo pages (eg http://www.mindat.org/gallery.php?loc=1782&min=2714) would be an option to view as side by side thumbnails thereby seeing more per screen. Perhaps with only species and locality. This particular example only has 81 images, but some have thousands.

14th Dec 2016 10:51 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

David.

Yes, it will be slower to enter. Bui once entered the data are far more useful to us.

And in those many cases where you have to create the reference yourself rather than copying/pasting from an existing list of references (for me at least this is the majority of the time) it's actually FASTER because I don't have to think about getting the reference format right.

So, some negatives, but big positives.

14th Dec 2016 12:57 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

Once we have a database of references you'll be able to switch between alphabetical (by author), alphabetical (by journal) and chronological at will.

Great idea, sorting by author is probably the usual default, but the others can be useful.

Chet I use a bibliography list....If each manager, expert and other users volunteered to initiate and maintain such reference lists for their particular areas of expertise/interest, it might become a reality.

Many of us have such lists we could add, but I’m not sure how many of us would relish further responsibilities, we need to automate things AFAP. We should use such a master list for broad areas, eg country state, mining district, that can be selected from for subordinate locations. Then if you add a reference to a subordinate location it should automatically be added to higher regions.

Its imperative we MUST make this all very easy for data entry, manually filling in hundreds of such forms can drive most people nuts. Not to mention converting the millions of existing entries. We could probably develop a function to take a list and automatically parse the authors and dates from the rest, but the last part can be messy, we can have book chapters, conference abstracts etc. So we need to ask ourselves, what do we really want? A professional looking database thats too complicated for most people or something simpler that ordinary people may actually use, with more limited functions? I think mostly we want to search on author & date and a free text search will suffice for the rest. What we dont want is another beautiful looking dead end application that doesn’t get used.

14th Dec 2016 13:37 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Personally I much prefer the current format with references in historical order. Makes it much easier to see when something was first described, and to find the most up-to-date info.

14th Dec 2016 14:03 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

"Great idea, sorting by author is probably the usual default, but the others can be useful." - This only works if you use a last name/first name format for the authors. (American Mineralogist, Canadian Mineralogist and Mineralogical Magazine don't)

Actually sorting by author is a pretty straight forward program. The references (at least for localities) are fairly easy to break into separate references and sorting arrays is pretty standard.

If this is supposed to be a start lo linking to the articles, my question is who would keep these up. We already have about 3K bad links on our pages. If you want to find an article on-line, it is usually easier to just copy the title and put it into Google search. This way you can also sometimes find the entire article instead of just the abstract from the journal pages.

My hand entering references or constructing references is probably on the order of 1% of my entries.

14th Dec 2016 15:04 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

> "Great idea, sorting by author is probably the usual default, but the others can be useful." - This only works if you use a last name/first name format for the authors.

> (American Mineralogist, Canadian Mineralogist and Mineralogical Magazine don't)

Another good justification for having things in a structured format so that we have control over how these are displayed and sorted.

> If this is supposed to be a start lo linking to the articles, my question is who would keep these up. We already have about 3K bad links on our pages.

In cases where a DOI: is provided this complication is avoided because the journal owner can direct DOI:s to correct pages should their site be restructured.

However, even when we have a direct link the benefits in having this easily available outweigh the inevitable danger of it becoming unavailable (something which is pretty easy for us to automatically check anyway.)

> If you want to find an article on-line, it is usually easier to just copy the title and put it into Google search.

And no-one is going to stop you continuing to do just this, I'm not sure what problem you see here. We can even automate it within the link system.

Let me be clear. Structured references are coming. It is too important for us NOT to do it and the longer we leave it the more legacy data will need to be converted in the future.

My job is to do it in a way that is as smooth and easy as possible for everyone working with existing references. A big part of this will be to try to have some level of intelligence in being able to pre-populate the form from a copy/pasted text reference with the aim being in the vast majority of cases you'll be able to just check it is ok, hit submit and be done.

Imagine if we had decided years ago that our mineral lists at localities would just be a text list of minerals, because that was easier to copy and paste in from other sources. Maybe we'd have more entries now. But probably not, because the overall benefit that the structured system brings us increases usage, popularity and involvement by others. The more useful that the references system is for people (rather than being simply a decoration to pages that few people use) the more involvement and the more contribution it will generate.

So, yes, I expect some of you to be grumpy about this. You've been grumpy with me before, and you know how that usually works out :) As usual, please trust me on this.

Jolyon

14th Dec 2016 16:40 UTCMatt King

How about something really simple? Like the most recent messages appear first in the list. In this new format it takes a lot of scrolling to get to the bottom every time. Not a major issue for pcs but a lot of finger scrolling on mobile devices. Cheers. Matt

14th Dec 2016 16:59 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Just click on the new flag. It takes you to the unread messages.

15th Dec 2016 11:56 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

Re references (maybe this needs a separate thread?)

Well at least a fully structured reference database may slow Kim down a bit!

The intelligent entry form sounds very good, if tricky.

We dont mean to be grumpy but we are just concerned this is properly tested by managers with a wide range of references including Company reports, book chapters, maps, etc. We just dont want another rushed fiasco like the Regional geology that looks flash but is mostly unusable. I have had lots of experience with helping design forms and databases and know the trouble you get if things get too complicated and people just dont enter data; if it takes more than a couple minutes to add or convert a reference, it will exasperate both uploaders and managers. We look forward to seeing the new system take a complicated list and convert it into a structured database.

15th Dec 2016 14:01 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

"if it takes more than a couple minutes to add or convert a reference"

Ideally, the conversion should be automatic, i.e. the software recognises the format of any complete or incomplete copy-pasted literature reference, and automatically extracts author(s), title, journal in separate, computer-readable fields. I am sure commercial software already exists, but maybe also freeware. The underlying algorithms are certainly advanced and complex because so many formats exist.

Some fields should probably be compulsory: journal or book name, journal volume, year (journal title and authors are often missing).

15th Dec 2016 14:49 UTCJeff Weissman Expert

Hopefully the conversion will take into account source type - journal article, book, proceedings, newsletter, etc...

16th Dec 2016 01:01 UTCPeter Tarassoff Expert

This has probably already been covered, but the advanced search app needs improvement. An example: type in Ilmen Mountains for locality, and Russia as a keyword, and what comes up? Two localities, one in Colorado and one in Massachusetts, both containing the words mountain and ilmenite!! Problem: in the site for the Ilmen Mountains, mountains is abbreviated "Mts". Obviously the search app doesn't know the meaning of the abbreviation. I suggest that all abbreviations should be avoided in Mindat locality names. Mindat users whose first language is not English may not know the meanings of some abbreviations.

Peter

26th Dec 2016 04:16 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

Maps could be improved. We should have a scale, as we do for nearest localities.

Also, when adding locations, it needs to be easier, I often know the location on the map or satellite image but not the Lat/Long, and we can move the location by hand but its slow and cumbersome. You have to zoom right out, which takes about 10 clicks, move to the general area and zoom right in again, about 10 more clicks. It would be good to have a button to zoom right out and another one to move to your present location, and/or to the next level up in that location hierachy.

26th Dec 2016 05:52 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager

Hi

My thoughts:

Referencing - an easier or more absolute style is definitely required. Creating a data base of references is a real need. I have already started creating a list of references - albeit small at this stage - for all references I am using / updating / reviewing etc. It is very easy to make mistakes when entering lots of entries and when a small errors are found it can take a while to fix (my own included).

I have already started adding Ronnie's print references to my list and some I've used already.

The biggest problems for referencing, as far as I am concerned, are web addresses/links and the like. So many do not work, you also have no idea what the reference is about or the date of the reference. If an on-line reference is used then there has to be a [square bracket description] plus a year for reference.

I also consider that if the reference is no longer accessible/links broken and it has been broken for some time - e.g.: 12 months - and so unlike to get fixed, then I think that they should be deleted.

Book reviews

I think that this would be a good addition to Mindat. Perhaps if one book was provided for the Mindat library and one for review, the review copy could be passed to various interested volunteers for review.

I already get probably a 1-2 dozen new mineral related books per annum so I would be happy to provide a review of them as and when I receive them.

Bulk photo uploads

No, please no, there are already so many photos pending review, bulk upload would be unbearable!!

Although, perhaps if that was permitted, those photos only go to a users personal list and not all of Mindat. Those photos that a photographer wants to be universal, then updates those through the current channels.

Cheers

Keith

26th Dec 2016 06:05 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

I agree with everything Keith said above, except the part about deleting broken links. A "reference" only tells us where a piece of data came from and, depending on the source, might give us some idea of how (un)reliable it's likely to be, and it's important to preserve that, even if the source is no longer accessible (although it often is still accessible, via archive.org's "wayback machine"). If a reference were an old paper book, and all known copies of that book were burned, we'd still keep the reference.

26th Dec 2016 11:24 UTCGünter Frenz Expert

My wish for 2017 is that the Javascript used by this website would be mostly coming from mindat itself again as before and not from sites as jquery.com. For security reasons I don't want to open my browser for Javascript from any website. I have enabled it for mindat.org because I trust the people working for this website. I don't trust everyone on the internet.

Cheers

Günter

26th Dec 2016 14:47 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

To have local copies of JavaScript such as jquery slows down page loading for most users and adds to the bandwidth we need to use, this is why we use external delivery networks for much of our third party javascripr. Additionally some, such as the google maps code, cannot be hosted locally. You are only allowed to call it from Google's servers.

Unfortunately therefore we won't be able to change this.

26th Dec 2016 18:51 UTCMichael Hatskel

Hi Jolyon

Re: the Mineral Association Search -- it looks like, unlike the general search function, it uses the exact mineral specias names. Would it be possible to change that to "includes" option, so that when, for example, "tantalite" is entered, it returns locations that have "tantalite", "columbite-tantalite", tantalite-(Fe) and tantalite-(Mn)?

One more thing about the searches:

In many cases it would be nice to be able to save and/or download the search results. Something similar to the searches for references in the scientific magazine websites: you run the search, you go through the search results and checkmark the entries that are of interest, then you can save and/or download the list of those checkmarked entries with or without annotations. I think it can be done in Mindat in such a way that it does not become a way for some to steal the db content. In some of the advanced search options, saving the list can be very helpful.

Thanks, and Happy Holidays!

Michael

29th Dec 2016 18:12 UTCTony Albini

I continue to have problems looking up a particular mineral at a locality listed on Mindat. Sometimes I am able to quickly find what I am looking for, other times it takes 30 minutes to find the item or get 0 entries. Hopefully Jolyon can guide me to the best way to find this information. As an example, I may type in------spessartine, Amelia, Virginia. Do capital letters or commas affect the search?

29th Dec 2016 19:22 UTCWayne Corwin

In the search at the bottom of pages?

I often just do location,,, then go thru the mineral list,,, goes faster ;-)

29th Dec 2016 21:59 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

I find the top search bar fails most times for locations and cannot cope with misspelt minerals but the bottom bar usually works. I usually find it quickest to use one word for the locality then select from the list.

29th Dec 2016 23:27 UTCTony Albini

Wayne and Ralph,

Thanks for the suggestions.

29th Dec 2016 23:33 UTCTony Charlton

I miss the "return to message list" button at the bottom of the thread page.Do not like scroling back to the top of the page to get out.

30th Dec 2016 09:01 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Do capital letters or commas affect the search? - no, all non-letters are eliminated from the first search for a locality ie first pass would look for "AMELIAVIRGINIA"

It isn't going to find anything since the string in the database is actually AMELIACOVIRGINIA

In general in searching for localities you are best off using the most distinctive words in your search - Amelia would be found faster (with more hits)

Amelia Virginia as an entry goes to the second search phase and searches for the individual words in the location search and lists the best matches.

30th Dec 2016 15:49 UTCTony Albini

David, thanks for your information.

31st Dec 2016 15:00 UTCFred E. Davis

I believe 2017 would be a great time to start displaying more meaningful decimal coordinates. Take, for example, Wheal Coates ( http://www.mindat.org/loc-1168.html ). At a latitude of 50 degrees, each degree of longitude spans 71,695.73 meters. So each second of longitude spans 19.9 meters. On that locality page, the location as DMS is given only to the nearest second (with no indicated fractions), so that specified location is good to +/-19.9 meters. Now look at the decimal coordinates on that locality page that extend to 10 digits to the right of the decimal point. This provides a longitude coordinate position down to +/-7.2 microns. Not only is this meaningless to an area the size of Wheal Coates, it cannot be measured with, for example, a >US$10,000 GPS (at best good to about 1 cm).

I suggest the rounding be set at 6 digits to the right of the decimal. Granted this is still small, but it would agree with the displayed values on high-quality hand-held GPS systems. At 50 degrees latitude, that's about +/-7.2 cm, and at the equator about +/-11.1 cm. Small (a fraction of my boot length), but much more realistic than units given in microns.

31st Dec 2016 17:22 UTCD. Peck

Fred, I agree with you. But, I would round it even more, at 4 or maybe 5 decimal places. Nearly all of these are referring to places that span from two or three to hundreds of meters. So even an 11 cm precision is a bit over the top.

1st Jan 2017 11:22 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

Locations really should show the precision - some locations will be +/- a few km, some a few m, and the given coordinates dont reflect this.

2nd Jan 2017 13:18 UTCSamina Gulzar

Hello,

I am new to Mindat. I think its design should be changed and more user friendly.

Thanks,

Samina

2nd Jan 2017 20:50 UTCNicholas J. Rose

I was wondering if it would be possible to have a link at a given locality page to questions (and answers) pertinent to that locality that have been posted on the messageboard. So one would not have to search the messageboard for each individual message posted concerning a specific locality or the minerals found there.

2nd Jan 2017 21:57 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

Good idea Nic!

3rd Jan 2017 06:13 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

"I was wondering if it would be possible to have a link at a given locality page to questions (and answers) pertinent to that locality that have been posted on the messageboard. " - That is what the "Talk Pages - Localities" are for. Unfortunately people don't use that option all the time.

3rd Jan 2017 12:18 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

True Dave, maybe we should move such discussions to those pages?

But firstly we have to have links to the appropriate discussions from the mineral and locality pages - this only seems to work for photos.

3rd Jan 2017 12:50 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Locality pages work

see for example http://www.mindat.org/loc-107286.html

3rd Jan 2017 21:21 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

OK Dave I discovered that you cannot see the discussion if not logged in. I know I should always be logged in but on the ipad half the new pages I open are logged out. But should you need to be logged in to see discussions? Also many of the entries on the Locality forum are more general discussions on minerals, not just locations, eg augite, tremolite, purpurite, etc.

4th Jan 2017 16:13 UTCJamison K. Brizendine 🌟 Expert

There are two other features that I would like, the first should be doable, but the second may not be, for various privacy issues.

Before the major update a few years ago, there used to be a drop down menu that allowed a user to see only photos that were included as Photos of the Day. Perhaps replacing "Top rated images" with "Photo of the Day" would be a better use for this.

The second thing I would like to possibly see is an option when you click on a locality to see which manager is in charge of approving photos for that locality. I understand this might not be doable, but I think it may beneficial for some of our users to see this option.

4th Jan 2017 19:00 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

Jamison, I like your idea of seeing the manager of a region and the sublocalities withing. That way, a person if they have a question, they might be able to ask the manager directly about the issue. I know I have seen a few mines or quarries that have messages in the description not to add or delete certain minerals or details without talking to whomever is an expert on the said quarry. Perhaps they are someone that had worked the quarry or studied it extensively and they are a member of the mindat community.

4th Jan 2017 19:49 UTCNicholas J. Rose

My reasons for desiring a link on a locality page to pertinent questions discussed on the messageboard concerning a given localities are that as Dave pointed out there are Talk Pages - 36 of them at this point, most of which discuss problems or maintenance issues. So say, as an example,you want to search information concerning the Mission Mine. There is a discussion concerning a Mission Mine (again maintenance related), but not the Mission Mine in Pala CA. It would be much more convenient to access questions about a locality from the locality page your interested in exploring. Personally, I consider a pertinent question something like : Has anyone ever actually seen a green herderite crystal from the Blue Chihuahua Mine. or What is the largest serandite crystal of quality found at the Poudrette quarry, and where might one see it. etc. etc. Questions concerning problems and maintenance issues don't need to be linked to the locality, and again the editors could screen what is or isn't linked. (Since they don't have enough to do as it is:-))

4th Jan 2017 22:09 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager

Hi

Re the talk pages: Yes the link that David mentions, works but it might be helpful if the talk page button was in the top blue line of buttons rather than under Discussion and then diverted to a talk page (not intuitive enough for me !!). Or perhaps rename the discussion button to talk.

Can you have multiple talk topics on the same locality? If not then only the upper button is needed. I think I have only seen one talk topic per locality and they can get somewhat long (eg California) and difficult to navigate.

If you can have multiple talk topics on the one locality perhaps we need to consider some form of structure for them. eg: collecting tips, access, contacts, mineral associations, historical chit chat etc etc.

Cheers

Keith

5th Jan 2017 07:16 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

"Can you have multiple talk topics on the same locality? " - No. The link on the locality page either allows you to start the talk pages in the forum or go to the talk page for that locality.

5th Jan 2017 12:28 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

I agree this could be made more obvious and used better.

5th Jan 2017 13:29 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

It would seem that this thread has drifted OFF TOPIC! If I were Jolyon I think that I would find it hard to pick out the suggested improvements from the background noise.

5th Jan 2017 20:41 UTCDana Morong

I have noticed that when I click on a post on the Recent Messages box (on the main page), that it comes up on the top of the list (the earliest post). For short threads, this is fine, but for long threads, such as those several pages long in which posts keep being added over time, this isn't quite so convenient. Is there any way to go directly to the last post when in the Recent Messages box? Just wondering. Enjoy it anyway.

6th Jan 2017 00:36 UTCWayne Corwin

Click the red flag

6th Jan 2017 16:47 UTCDana Morong

Sorry, I had used the wrong terminology. I had meant the "New Discussions" box on the main page (coming to top of the list, the earliest post). When I use the actual "Recent Messages" pages (and there are several pages of these), then it does come up on the latest post.

7th Jan 2017 15:06 UTCTony Charlton

Tony Charlton Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I miss the "return to message list" button at the

> bottom of the thread page.Do not like scroling

> back to the top of the page to get out.

Was just reviewing this thread and there is no method to scroll to the next page without returning to the top of the current page.

http://www.mindat.org/mesg-6-253403.html

What a waste of time Mindat is becoming.

7th Jan 2017 15:17 UTCWayne Corwin

The "next Page(s)" used to show up at both the top and bottom of pages,,, but no more on bottom now?

9th Jan 2017 21:29 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

Yes these changes/omissions can be annoying, and I also miss the buttons for next and previous topics.

9th Jan 2017 21:50 UTCWayne Corwin

I was the one who asked to have them added to the top.

Now I'll have to ask to have them added to the bottom again :-S

10th Jan 2017 03:30 UTCMatthew Stanley

When you are on a mineral page for a specific locality, for example Smozonite from Lake George, CO (http://www.mindat.org/locentry-119969.html), there is a section labeled "Associated Minerals Based on Photo Data." When you click on the linked mineral name, it take you to that mineral page. Logically, I would think it would take you to the photos that have those two mineral species from that given locality. For example on the previously mentioned amazonite page, the last associated mineral listed is goethite, and it says "1 photo of Amazonite associated with Goethite at this locality." When I click that link, I expect that I should see that one photo!

Thanks for seeking our input!

10th Jan 2017 12:56 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Good suggestion. We probably will add a camera icon to show the photos as you suggest next to each mineral name

11th Jan 2017 00:08 UTCMatthew Stanley

One other thing, not a suggestion really, just an observation... On the homepage, the list of supporters says 2014/15. I'm hoping there have been supporters since then! ;-)

17th Jan 2017 19:48 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

I don't know if this is possible but this morning I was looking up a location on the mindat maps in Cochise county Arizona. I found the mine symbol was about 30 miles away in a different mountain range.

Chester fixed it and then also placed the mine symbol for one mine I had collected often right about to the correct spot. This made me think about something.

With the zooming in on the satellite map I zoomed right to where the mine was. At the closest zoom I saw the mine and the mine symbol in the same view but the symbol was still about 50 feet from the mine itself. Now I wondered if there is a way that one can place the curser onto the mine symbol and move it to the exact location of a particular mine. Not for a member but maybe for a manager?

Sure would be great to be able to place the mine symbol right onto the actual spot you see the mine on the satellite map. Now that would be a cool thing to be able to do. One could zoom into small mines and prospects and to the foot put the symbol in the right spot.

I have been trying to place symbols as close as I can but even with the lat and long it is often not "exactly" on the mine.

Something to think about.

Rolf

17th Jan 2017 20:13 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Field collectors might kill me for saying this, but I think accurate mine coordinates aren't sporting... No thrill of the hunt. When you already know exactly where it's going to be, it's like hunters going to the zoo to shoot animals in their cages. Not sporting at all, old chap :-D

17th Jan 2017 20:26 UTCJyrki Autio Expert

That is only the treasure hunt thrill part. Us hunter gatherers enjoy also identifying. trimming and classifying.

There is a point though. It is much too easy for next generation to find the right place. On the positive side, they will not be able to enter it.

17th Jan 2017 22:16 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

When you edit locations you can actually move the site with your cursor.

Maybe with Alfredos favorite locations we could move them well away from the actual site to give him more challenges in life? :-D

Personally even when you know an old mine site +/- 100m on a map in the bush it can take all day to find it sometimes!

17th Jan 2017 23:12 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Ralph,

I don't normally change things on the site desctiptions but will have to try on the one that brought this to my mind.

Alfredo never would have found the place that brought this to mind since the symbol was about 35 miles away when I saw the problem. Nobody would have found that location originally.

I know what you mean though with finding actual locations. One friend called on his cell phone three different days to try and find one mine in the middle of nowhere. On the third trip he used us again and as we looked on the map here we could guide him there and he finally found the place. In this case steep canyons hid the dumps very well.

18th Jan 2017 14:25 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

"With the zooming in on the satellite map I zoomed right to where the mine was. At the closest zoom I saw the mine and the mine symbol in the same view but the symbol was still about 50 feet from the mine itself. Now I wondered if there is a way that one can place the curser onto the mine symbol and move it to the exact location of a particular mine. "

As Ralph said, you can move the location on the locality edit page (in the lat/longitude section). It is best if you add the satellite view in so you see imagery on the map. You just then drag the map symbol to the proper locality. The accuracy is only about +- 15m so there can be variations in the locality.

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