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Identity HelpKidwellite, Hagendorf?

1st Feb 2017 09:33 UTCHartmut Hensel Expert

I have a micromount of "Kidwellite" from Hagendorf-South pegmatite which I acquired in 1984 from a well-known German dealer.

Now according to mindat and other Hagendorf lists this mineral is not known from the locality. So I guess that maybe in 1984 Kidwellite was assumed to exist in Hagendorf but was later proved to be a misidentification.

Does maybe an experienced Hagendorf collector have an idea what this could be? In the sense like "Oh, yes, the former Hagendorf-Kidwellite later turned out to be mineral xyz..."?

Any help would be appreciated. And sorry, but I cannot provide a helpful photo but there is some similarity to kidwellite photos in mindat like for instance this one.

Thanks for any help

Hartmut

1st Feb 2017 10:52 UTCStephan Wolfsried Expert

Hartmut,

could be probably Beraunite.

Stephan

1st Feb 2017 14:35 UTCTom Tucker

We need to get away from the concept that if a species isn't listed at a locality then it must not be there. This is somewhat like proving a negative. Both dufrenite and rockbridgeite are noted at Hagendorf, so I would expect that kidwellite was very possible also. If it looks like kidwellite, I'd accept that identification before going looking for something else. Or, have it identified by XRD.

1st Feb 2017 15:04 UTCHartmut Hensel Expert

Stephan, Tom,

thank you for your feedback. I also had Beraunite in mind, it is definitely a candidate.

Tom, I completely agree with you. I wouldn't take this approach for many localities listed in any internet database. But I think that Hagendorf is a very well documented locality in mindat. I would be surprised if a typical phosphate mineral like kidwellite would be missing. In addition I checked the book from Kastning and Schlüter from 1994 ("Die Mineralien von Hagendorf und ihre Bestimmung") which gives a complete listing of all minerals known at that time. It also does not mention kidwellite and my sample was already bought in 1984. So, I would expect it to be listed in the book.

Hartmut

1st Feb 2017 16:45 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Some time ago, we had identified kidwellite from Hagendorf by PXRD and SEM-EDS analyses on old samples from Hagendorf. A publication about this and about 14 other new finds is in preparation. The manuscript will probably be sent to "Der Aufschluss."

AFAIR, kidwellite was also mentioned (but without any details) in one of the recent articles on new species from Hagendorf.

1st Feb 2017 19:32 UTCHartmut Hensel Expert

Very interesting news, thank you Uwe. So, for the time being I keep my sample as kidwellite.:-)

I am looking forward to reading the mentioned publication that is in preparation.

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