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Identity HelpBlue spinel with graphite from Afghanistan, but where?

14th Sep 2018 17:39 UTCNick Gilly

Does anyone know where blue spinel and graphite are found together in Afghanistan? I bought a specimen from one of the dealers in Peshawar (wrongly IDed as sapphire), but the only location listed was Afghanistan. Maybe Badakhshan province somewhere?

The crystals show a slight colour-shift, from a teal blue in daylight to a more sapphire blue in artificial light. There is also off-white calcite present. The colour must be due to iron.

I'll take a pic or two tomorrow when the light is better.

Thanks for any info on this.

14th Sep 2018 20:32 UTCOwen Lewis

Nick Gilly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Does anyone know where blue spinel and graphite

> are found together in Afghanistan? I bought a

> specimen from one of the dealers in Peshawar

> (wrongly IDed as sapphire), but the only location

> listed was Afghanistan. Maybe Badakhshan province

> somewhere?

>

> The crystals show a slight colour-shift, from a

> teal blue in daylight to a more sapphire blue in

> artificial light. There is also off-white calcite

> present. The colour must be due to iron.

>

> I'll take a pic or two tomorrow when the light is better.

>

> Thanks for any info on this.

I can't help with a suggested locale for you but you raise another couple of interesting points along the way.

- What tests did you use to determine spinel as the correct ID?

- Had you determined the ID to be sapphire, I'd be guessing that the mild colour shift you see is pleochroic in origin. But spinel is never pleochroic (plus pleochroism is a directional effect not governed by the illuminating wavelengths).

- I don't seem to have any reference to an association of blue spinel with graphite in the Tadjikistan/Afghanistan/Pakistan area but it's reasonably well known in such stones from Sri Lanka.

Anyway, let's see your pics and then perhaps chat some more.

14th Sep 2018 20:51 UTCNick Gilly

Hi Owen.

The crystals are clearly octahedral in habit and have that compound/parallel octahedral faces thing going on that seems to be typical for the species. It's definitely not corundum, as all the pseudo-octahedral crystals of corundum I have seen have characteristic striations on the crystal faces. The crystals are sharply formed too.

I read that the gem markets in Peshawar were often started by refugees from Afghanistan, and so maybe they also trade on eBay and so have access to specimens from remote parts of that country. They certainly have some very interesting and nice specimens for sale.

15th Sep 2018 09:50 UTCNick Gilly

Some pics below. The camera 'sees' the crystals as a more intense blue than my eyes do, and doesn't capture the teal element at all:

15th Sep 2018 09:52 UTCNick Gilly

- shows the graphite

15th Sep 2018 13:42 UTCOwen Lewis

Interesting piece. What might you think about gahnite?

15th Sep 2018 14:16 UTCNick Gilly

Hi Owen.

It doesn't match the pics of gahnite I've seen on Mindat. Gahnospinel may be a closer match as that can be gemmier and less dark, but I don't know of any gahnite or gahnospinel from Afghanistan or Pakistan. Most of the gahnite I've seen looks pretty much black.

I know blue spinel is found in Pakistan, in the Hunza valley, and I'm wondering if the same deposit resurfaces somewhere in Afghanistan, like the connection between the rubies in Jegdalek and Hunza.

I also suspect the colour-changing property, even though it is slight, is the reason that the camera is not displaying the colour correctly, and also partly why the specimen appeared a more vivid blue in the eBay pics. My photos make it look like a tanzanite blue.

16th Sep 2018 13:08 UTCNick Gilly

I messaged the seller again and apparently my guess was correct; the specimen does appear to be from Badakhshan province, but he couldn't be any more specific than that. If so, it must be a new find of blue spinel, as I've not been able to find any references online about blue spinel & graphite from Afghanistan.

I'm guessing there could be more interesting finds from there in the near future.

19th Sep 2018 14:31 UTCAymeric Longi

Indeed, blue spinel is something new for Afghanistan, very nice piece!

I have a pink spinel specimen with some graphite which comes from Badakhshan, probably the Koksha valley purple spinel occurence.

19th Sep 2018 18:02 UTCNick Gilly

Thanks Aymeric. Maybe we'll see more blue spinel out of Afghanistan. I missed another one on eBay which was a single gemmy crystal perched on albite, with a very pure saturated colour, similar to the specimens coming out of Vietnam.

I also bought a lot of 7 small gem quality lilac/lavender spinel crystals, also from Badakhshan province, earlier in the year. I'm guessing they may also be from the Koksha valley location.

You have some gorgeous specimens from Afghanistan and Pakistan in your collection. The eBay dealers in Peshawar have some really interesting and beautiful specimens from that part of the world. I'm keeping an eye out for more interesting spinel and others from them.

20th Sep 2018 02:02 UTCJosé Zendrera 🌟 Manager

A graphite occurrence near Sar-e-Sang is listed in Mindat Istrombi graphite occurrence nor far from the Purple Spinel Occurrence so Nick's sample is likely to be from anywhere between these places. A very plausible hipothesis but hard to confirm.

For many reasons, miners and dealers from this area prefer keep their sources under secret. That's why most of the large number of specimens coming from Afghanistan and Pakistan, mostly distributed via Peshawar, arrive to market with an imprecise location when not erroneous. Those of us who have traveled there we know how hard is to obtain information in situ. And to insist asking often only serves to get an invented answer. Personally, I acheived to locate more mines in Afghanistan and Pakistan "flying" in Google Earth than after had spent two months there...

21st Sep 2018 17:11 UTCAymeric Longi

Hey Nick,

I think we might have stumbled upon the same specimen as I saw one a couple weeks ago, nice deep blue crystal perched a the top of a white matrix, pretty neat!

Oh, thanks for your comment, that's very nice of you to say. I focus most of my collection on minerals from the Af-Pak region actually, haven't had, yet, the chance to eat the dust of Afghanistan's roads and trails, but I had plenty enough already of Pakistan's to be deeply in love with the country and its minerals, and anything good coming out of there as a matter of fact.

If you take the time to browse there are definitely many gems and oddities to be found among the Peshawri dealers on ebay. One of my latest acquisition is an association of epidote, diopside and actinolite, with some pseudomorphosis of diopside replaced my actinolite, gorgeous!

Cheers!

22nd Sep 2018 10:43 UTCNick Gilly

A very quick pic taken of the lilac/lavender spinels, bought in the spring:

I'm guessing that these are also from the Purple Spinel Occurrence somewhere in the Koksha Valley?

22nd Sep 2018 15:47 UTCNick Gilly

Aymeric Longi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hey Nick,

>

> I think we might have stumbled upon the same

> specimen as I saw one a couple weeks ago, nice

> deep blue crystal perched a the top of a white

> matrix, pretty neat!

>

> Oh, thanks for your comment, that's very nice of

> you to say. I focus most of my collection on

> minerals from the Af-Pak region actually, haven't

> had, yet, the chance to eat the dust of

> Afghanistan's roads and trails, but I had plenty

> enough already of Pakistan's to be deeply in love

> with the country and its minerals, and anything

> good coming out of there as a matter of fact.

>

> If you take the time to browse there are

> definitely many gems and oddities to be found

> among the Peshawri dealers on ebay. One of my

> latest acquisition is an association of epidote,

> diopside and actinolite, with some pseudomorphosis

> of diopside replaced my actinolite, gorgeous!

>

> Cheers!

Definitely! The diverse range of minerals coming out of both Pakistan and Afghanistan is fascinating. They really are blessed with amazing natural resources.

There's also a dealer who we always check out at the Rock & Gem shows at Kempton Park who goes under the name of 'Precious Gems', who is from Pakistan and he always has interesting specimens from there at excellent prices. I bought a couple of large epidote specimens from him last time we went, the largest weighing >500 grams. A lot of the specimens he has are of large cabinet or cabinet size. He also has jewellery & cut gems for sale.

I'm intrigued by some of the 'unknowns' that the Peshawar eBay dealers are selling. I'm sure there must be some real bargains hidden in them!

24th Sep 2018 14:22 UTCAymeric Longi

Hi Nick,

That's a very nice set of crystals you got there!

Haaaa, yes, between the "unknowns" and mislabelled, there are some real nice curiosities to find out!

Definitely! The diverse range of minerals coming out of both Pakistan and Afghanistan is fascinating. They really are blessed with amazing natural resources.

You should go and visit Pakistan, you'll love it!

Cheers!

21st Aug 2019 22:58 UTCNick Gilly

I've won another lot of blue spinel from Badakhshan, and have included a pic from the seller. They are translucent to transparent, and I'll be interested to see how the colour compares with my original specimen I bought last year. The weight of this lot is approx. 16ct/3.2 grams.

4th Sep 2019 20:23 UTCNick Gilly

Well, the spinels arrived today, and as it turns out that photo is pretty accurate. They are crystals or fragments of a deep inky blue colour and the the two smallest pieces are transparent. The blue shows up as more lively than the original specimen with graphite as those crystals are more-or-less opaque. There is no fluorescence under UV and no obvious colour shift.

I'm not sure if these are 'standard' spinel or whether they may be zincian, as the blue colour reminds me of pics I have seen of gahnospinel.

Anyone else obtained deep blue spinel from Badakhshan recently?

5th Dec 2019 21:37 UTCNick Gilly

Anyone? I'm not sure if the newer batch is from the same area as the original specimen. The crystals do look a little different.

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