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Identity Helppetroleum included quartz
23rd Mar 2007 14:41 UTCElizabeth McRorie
This particular stone has a three phase fluid inclusion..gas bubble, black stuff (anthraxolite?) and petroleum. Both the bubble and the black stuff move, and there is another moving bubble on the back side, and several smaller bubbles with in the stone. All of it easily seen without the aid of a loupe.
It's about 20mm x 15 mm x 15mm
23rd Mar 2007 14:43 UTCElizabeth McRorie
23rd Mar 2007 15:08 UTCPete Nancarrow
As to positively identifying whether you have "anthraxolite", even if you extract some of it, I suspect there are few reliable techniques available outdside organic chemistry laboratories.
Pete N.
23rd Mar 2007 16:08 UTCAlan Plante
Just as a "heads up" to you, double-terminated short prismatic quartz crystals from localities other than the Herkimer area of New York should not be called "Herkimers." It is a localized nickname, not a general term for such crystals. You could say that such crystals from elsewhere are "Herkimer-like"; but it will only cause confusion if such crystals are called "Herkimers" or "Herks".
A collector (miner?) from Pakistan or Afghanistan came to this board some months ago to ask about this, and it was pretty clear people here did not think it was correct to use the term "Herkimer" for the crystals he was finding in his area.
The current issue of Rocks And Minerals magazine has an interesting article on the mis-use of localized or regional terms for similar materials from other areas. I don't fully agree with everything said in the article, but I agree with the general idea the author is trying to get across: Local nicknames should not be turned into more generic varietal names. (Species named after localities are, of course, a different story.)
Finally, while I can't claim any particular expertise regarding bituminous inclusions in Herks and other Herk-like crystals, I have collected a few over the years and seen the inclusions "up close and personal." The "anthraxolite" found in Herks is a bituminous, tar-like, substance - not a liquid. While it is hard to tell for sure in your photo, the inclusion in your specimen looks like a liquid bubble to me, and would therefore not be "anthraxolite."
Regards
Alan
23rd Mar 2007 18:10 UTCElizabeth McRorie
Right.. the anthraxolite would be the dark solid, not the liquid. The liquid is petroleum. At least that is what I was told it was. There is both liquid and solid in the inclusion.
23rd Mar 2007 20:40 UTCPeter Andresen Expert
I got some quartz crystals from Berbes, Spain, which have inclusions of gas, oil and bitumen. That is what I put on the label - since it's all probably complex hydrocarbones, and not minerals... All samples are put in the "quartz drawer"...
Regards
Peter
26th Mar 2007 15:23 UTCSpencer I. Mather
26th Mar 2007 17:26 UTCAlan Plante
I hadn't realized, looking at the photo, that there was any solid material in the bubble. In that event, the only way you can be sure of its identity is to have it analyzed. (I seriously doubt if even the tar-oil experts can visually distinguish between different bituminous materials. They'd need to do lab work to know what they have at hand.)
Just because "anthraxolite" has been identified in Herks does not mean that any and all bituminous materials found in similar crystals from other localities will be the same thing. Making that sort of assumption might mean that the true identity of a material could go undetermined for a long time.
Regards
Alan
26th Mar 2007 17:49 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager
26th Mar 2007 21:16 UTCAlan Plante
That's a good point.
I'm not an expert on the bituminous inclusions found in Herks - I don't know if they have been determined to be a particular organic compound, or if the term "anthraxolite" is generic - or even just a localized nickname that the stuff got tagged with. It wouldn't hurt to know; so maybe someone who is familiar with the stuff will click in and tell us.
Alan
29th Mar 2007 23:11 UTCJorge Dascal
"Regarding the yellow color in the Herkimer area the anthraxolite inclusions can have two forms: 1. A pale yellow variety which melted at 70º to 80º C, and; 2. A brown variety which melted at 200º to 220º in contact with the yellow one". Should be the same for Pakistan Herkimer-like crystals?
In Argentina Herkimer-like quartz crystals some of the yellow fluid inclusions are hydrocarbons of an asphalt and paraffin mix base. Others are an aqueous liquid with an important methane proportion. And it comes in different yellow-amber color alone or with other inclusions.
30th Mar 2007 02:40 UTCAymeric Longi
whatever, these "herk-like" quartz are called "diamond-quartz" in Pakistan (included or waterclear), and often labelled as "golden enhydro" by the few internet shops who sell them. They come from Baluchistan but I don't know from where exacty. I'll be in Pakistan next May, so I'll ask my wholesaler. but yeah, it is rather rare stuff and good pieces can fetch pretty high prices.
eheh, no Alan, me no miner, but collector and future seller from France hooked on Pakistan !
Cheers !
Aymeric
30th Mar 2007 16:25 UTCJorge Dascal
Since I cannot read the article it seems that it is similar to the Argentina Herk-like, or vice versa?
As I see it (joking), Patagonia Minerals now need to market two kinds of "quartz crystal diamonds": Argentina Herk-like and Argentina Herk-Baluchistan/Pakistan-like.
Mr. W.D. Grimm (1962) made a study of 150 world localities of these idiomorphic crystals. So it will be nice to see in the market in the next years more Quartz Crystal Diamonds disregarding if they are from Up State New York or from other sources.
3rd Apr 2007 20:13 UTCElizabeth McRorie
I have more of these crystals. I will try to take some more photos to share.
Thanks again!
Beth
10th Apr 2007 04:43 UTCBay Kilpatrick
Ive been searching for good golden included quartz as per your photo. Where did you find such a beautiful piece? May I ask what the ball park figure is for such a rare and unusual crystal?
Thanking you in advance
Bay
16th Apr 2007 17:09 UTCRobert Szep
16th Apr 2007 17:21 UTCPeter Haas
18th Mar 2014 07:36 UTCP.J.
I just wanted to provide you with an answer to your Petroleum Quartz question!
~1 The black inclusions are actually Asphalite -(AKA~Asphalt)!
~2 The Yellow inclusions are methane!
~3 The clear inclusions are either water, or air!
~The unique quality of these gems is that the Methane produces a "STRONG BLUE GLOW", under incandescent lighting!!
~4 This gem has only recently been "UPGRADED" from a mineral specimen to a Gemstone, & as a result, the market has REALLY taken off!!
~5 You may find that a static Asphalite inclusion will liquify & start to move simply by holding the stone in your hand & allow the gem to "WARM UP!
~6 Finally you need to be EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS if using tools or heat around this stone! Drilling a small hole to place a "jump ring" can actually cause the stone to "EXPLODE" if the drill touches or passes close to a Methane pocket!
Hope this gives you the answers you were seeking, but if not, PLEASE feel free to contact me with other questions!!
GOD BLESS!!
~~P.J.~~
16th Mar 2019 01:55 UTCSue Marcus
https://goldschmidtabstracts.info/2016/2337.pdf
16th Mar 2019 12:37 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert
16th Mar 2019 21:05 UTCJason Evans
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Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us / DMCA issues - Report a bug/vulnerability Current server date and time: May 15, 2024 02:59:15