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Field CollectingCurrent collecting trends in the USA

31st May 2018 23:06 UTCBob Harman

On a concurrent Mindat thread ERIN D asks about possibilities of collecting in an Iowa mine known for currently producing many hi quality collector specimens. She is not alone. Many novice and newer collectors in the US still have this long enduring idea of being able to find hi quality collector specimens (!) in well known localities, just "going in" with a few tools and "finding the specimens".

I submit that, in the USA today, this is just no longer the case. I suggest that virtually all collector sites producing really good quality specimens (!) have become large rather expensive commercial type operations. Examples can be seen all over; in the Colorado rhodochrosite operations, the amazonite with smoky quartz ventures, the Jackson's Crossroads amethyst site and many other sites. Today, in the US, these expensive commercial type operations for collector specimens are the rule rather than the exception.

Recently shown several examples of low key personally collected specimens, of various types, I was polite, but they weren't really even close to high quality. Can anyone prove me wrong, bringing up current US "low key, inexpensive collector sites" producing truly higher quality examples? CHEERS.......BOB

31st May 2018 23:37 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

All depends how hard you're willing to work. High-quality, large and valuable specimens are not common anywhere in the world; if they were common, they would not be so highly sought after. So how many you find depends on how many tons of rock you move. How many people are willing to move literally tons of rock? If you move enough rock, you stand a chance of finding a world-class specimen even in New York's herkimer strata, but most people will only move a few kilos of rock, find a few nondescript scraps and then declare to the world that the locality is finished, or "not what it used to be".

1st Jun 2018 02:47 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

I have been surprised more than once where a newbie

to both the location and collecting has come up with one of the best specimens from very highly collected

local quarries. A sharp eye seems to be a common denominator. I have also learned to disbelieve that any location is truly dead-if it is still open, working and not yet remediated.

1st Jun 2018 03:09 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

It’s a matter of perspective. It depends on how long you’ve been interested in the hobby, and what kind of specimens interest you.

When we all first got our start in collecting, were we not thrilled just to find a specimen or crystal that REALLY appealed to our aesthetics or scientific curiosity? As our experience in collecting lengthened hopefully this “rush” stayed with us. Otherwise, unless someone is collecting purely as an investment, what’s the point?

I’ve known Bob for a long time, and appreciate his love for geodes. I can only imagine the excitement he feels when he finds a geode that perhaps has a mineral in it that he’s never encountered, or maybe a nice geode from a location previously unknown to him, or perhaps one that just strikes him as absolutely beautiful. That doesn’t mean that another collector would have the same emotional or scientific feeling with those same specimens.

I fully admit that I’m a “magpie collector”, one who almost exclusively goes after stuff that I think is pretty. While I do have a number of rare uglies, those who collect species or ore specimens would probably find my collection boring. I also have very few specimens that would appeal to micromount enthusiasts, or those who collect specimens from specific localities (for instance, I don’t have anything from Langban).

As to “high quality collector specimens”, again, it’s a matter of perspective. I’ve had the privilege of seeing truly world-class private collections. By this I mean every specimen in the collection is as good or better as those in (insert your idea of any top mineral museum here). Specimens in my collection that I think are outstanding are definitely NOT when compared to this level of excellence.

So, does this mean that I can’t go collecting and find something that I think is good? No! I still enjoy going to the Salt Flat Flats in Oklahoma to dig the selenite crystals, or to the Keokuk, Iowa area for geodes, or even just roadcuts and mine dumps for whatever they offer (which sometimes are really fine specimens!). One thing’s for sure: if you don’t go out and look, you’re not going to field collect anything.

1st Jun 2018 04:07 UTCPaul Brandes 🌟 Manager

Alfredo took the words right outta my mouth!

I can still go to the Keweenaw and with a little hard work and patience (something most people serious lack these days) usually come back with a few nice things. Is the Keweenaw played out? Most people would say yes, but I disagree if one works hard, knows where to go, and what to look for. The problem I see is that too many people lack the patience and knowledge of true field collecting and would rather "silver pick" their way to a fine collection.

1st Jun 2018 16:08 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

I generally agree with Bob regarding where high-quality specimens in the US typically come from these days, but before that they came from commodity mining operations, which also were not really accessible to amateur collectors. But there have always been specimen mining operations, too. I think there are more now because more of the former have closed and were converted to the latter based on what they yielded during ore mining and as prices for great specimens have climbed.

And to Alfredo's comment, yes if a place is still accessible, then good pieces depend on how hard you work, combined with how smart you work (picking the right spot and working the rock the right way to lessen the labor) and how many times you go there. Experience is a great teacher. The more times, the smarter you get and the easier the work, or the better the yield. But you still have to get past the fact that only in very rare circumstances is it lying on the ground waiting for you to pick it up!

Some places, like the Bristol, CT copper mine, no matter how hard or smart you work you will not find anything like the fabulous chalcocites from the 19th century, even if the place were still open. Those came out of the underground mine, now all flooded and inaccesible. There are a zillion similar places like that.

But I agree with Steve, if a place is re-openable and worked hard, with help from some power equipment and excavator, a long dormant place like Hewitt gem quarry in Haddam, CT can yield fine specimens like these elbaites

https://www.mindat.org/photo-760608.html

https://www.mindat.org/photo-760611.html

Look at all the great stuff found at the Sterling Mine/Passaic Pit since it became a museum open to fee digging. Finding a fabulous piece is still a rare and difficult thing for any individual, but that makes it all the more enjoyable and memorable. And isnt that what it is all about? It's the same reason people go gambling.

Your best chances are at active quarries with fresh rock that are open to legal collecting. But they are a minority of places. And usually only 1 day a year are they open, so that brings the odds down again. No free lunch. Just treat this collecting activity as recreation and education and you wont be disappointed...

1st Jun 2018 17:54 UTCKyle Bayliff

Paul Brandes Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The problem I see is that too many people lack the

> patience and knowledge of true field collecting

> and would rather "silver pick" their way to a fine

> collection.

I would argue that it isn't necessarily patience or knowledge that are the root of it. This is anecdotal, but I know that for myself at least, the limitations are primarily time and geography. I would come back and dig the same areas over and over if I had some indication that I'd find something good there eventually, but especially as a graduate student, I have so many other obligations that I can't spend the time necessary to do that. Moreover, I live in a region that is geologically speaking, pretty boring. I have to travel to find anything decent, and that requires a long weekend at the very least, which just doesn't happen that often.

As far as knowledge goes, it does take some time to accumulate that as well. Mindat is a wonderful place to find info on minerals and interact with people who are experts in the field, but it doesn't provide everything. You spend so much time learning how to identify minerals, learning how to dig them up without damaging them, learning how to process and handle them once they're out of the ground, and every time you want to go collecting somewhere new, you spend time researching the area, finding contact info for places to dig, and just figuring out the logistics of getting there and getting things back. All that time adds up pretty quickly. It's not that people would rather use the "silver pick" to find specimens (I know I'm much more attached to the specimens I've found myself and it's more fun to share with other people when there's a personal story to tell), it's simply that sometimes that's the only way you can get what you want when you don't have the time to go through the process yourself.

1st Jun 2018 21:38 UTCScott Rider

I think Alfredo is correct. From my experience digging with clubs and friends, most people are unwilling to do the exceptionally hard work to obtain some of the better specimens, as they are more surface diggers and sifters. And some people I've taken complain about the distances you have to hike to some of the better spots in Colorado. So I think lack of serious motivation are the reasons... For the most part, you will NOT get good or better specimens without a TON of work, .

I found an abundant amount of topaz in Devil's Head, when I found a couple tiny crystals in a spot I didn't think would have anything. After about 4 straight days of intense, exhausting digging I following what vein I thought could yield some topaz, I hit a decent pocket with about 30 crystals of topaz. This was after 3-4 years of searching prior to that. And then, after that I spent 2 more years (off and on) searching that same area to no avail..

Of course, you can be like a gentleman in a club I'm a member of, where he hit a very good pocket of large smoky quartz and big (for the area) fluorite combo's, right off the surface with almost no hard work. This situation is extremely rare however. Lucky strikes do not happen often, are quite rare occurrences. I still hope to find more topaz, they were what I'd call high-end. Sherry (peachy-pink pleochlorism) crystals up to 160 grams and good crystal form (some etching), a couple with cassiterite embedded in the terminations. Very unique considering most topaz from Devil's Head is very rare, and also usually colorless.

2nd Jun 2018 04:57 UTCHolger Hartmaier 🌟

When I was 11 years old, my parents gave me a copy of Fredrick H. Pough's book "A Field Guide to Rocks and Minerals" as I had been collecting rocks and minerals for about 4 years by field collecting on our vacation trips. One the guiding principles for field collecting is spelled out on page 3, the first page of Chapter One, entitled "Your Mineral Collection".

I quote Pough, " Ask permission before visiting private property if you can, and go easy on the ore piles you may find at a mine or quarry. Even a few pounds of some minerals, like beryl, are valuable and the quarry owner is not likely to be pleased to find his hoard stripped on a Monday morning after leaving it unguarded over a weekend. When you have the owner's permission do not abuse the collecting privileges granted you, for one bad experience will put the whole mineral collecting fraternity in a bad light. Do not clean out a locality or batter up crystals you cannot take out yourself; there will be other collectors after you."

I would tend to agree with Bob's assertion that most known collector sites that produced shall we say "marketable" mineral specimens have been stripped. Based on the replies to this thread, serious mineral collectors will put in the necessary effort and work hard to turn over what is left there to find any remaining elusive specimens. Under these circumstances, Pough's collecting principle is ignored. Any material recovered by the collector will likely be removed and very little would be left over for the next collector. For the average collector, lacking the resources to develop new ground or move large quantities of material, collecting at these sites becomes an exercise in diminishing returns for greater levels of effort. However, we can all benefit from a day outside collecting, even if we turn up nothing. There is still the thrill of the hunt that keeps us going!

Cheers and good luck to all fellow field collectors!

Holger

2nd Jun 2018 10:01 UTCDon Swenson

For many years it was possible to find world-class uraninite crystals in Maine and world-class staurolite crystals in New Hampshire simply by walking into certain sites and doing hand digging for several hours. Certain restrictions now exist but the sites are still there.

2nd Jun 2018 10:28 UTCアーロンベリル

The earth is constantly turning over new material for us to dig, prod and sift through. Typhoons, erosion, landslides, earthquakes, floods, snow melt, construction, new road cuts... the list goes on. I find enjoyment in the hobby by keeping my expectations low, yet I'll climb the ravine or brave the thorny bramble to look where no one else wants to look. So far my efforts have been fruitful! Best of luck to all of you!

2nd Jun 2018 13:30 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

I completely agree with Aaron. As old localities are worked out, covered over or otherwise put out of reach, the Earth is constantly yielding new localities. I rarely consult guides to classic localities, but rather spend most of my field collecting time searching out new localities. Who wants to go digging in a famous spot which hundreds of other souls have already picked over? Anyone with a little imagination and spirit of adventure can easily find still unknown virgin localities, whether it be in a fresh landslide scar, a new construction site, or a recent volcanic eruption.

2nd Jun 2018 14:12 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

In SE Arizona, I just got contacted by a couple of novice collectors asking where they could go and collect nice mineral specimens.

I told them of a spot or two where some specimens can be found but told them that only extensive work digging would bring out anything one would be happy to put in a display case. I find so many, as already stated, will putter around and find little. Good example is a friend I took to the same location I just told the young couple about and I showed the place in the dump I had found good material in the past. I had found what I wanted from this location and had no more interest in doing the major work I did years ago. My friend was young and energetic and when he stopped by a few days later to show me his finds, it was as good as any I had found in the past. Now he did the work and came up with nice things. Another friend went to the same mine and looked around and said he found nothing.

There is the contrast talked about above, with the right amount of work, specimens one would put in a display are still out there.

I do remember about 45 years ago, going to many places in SE Arizona and it was easy to find good things lying on the surface but those days are pretty much gone and now material has to be dug from the old dumps. Fortunately many dumps are large and most has not been dug up.

I try to tell people that toning down their expectations is a good thing but it is possible with work to come up with nice things.

Underground is an entirely different matter so in my above statements I have only referred to above ground, dump collecting.

2nd Jun 2018 14:57 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

Pough's words were wise. I would not say his advice is ignored, but most of the places I can go these days, including where the elbaites came from, are fee collecting sites so taking as much as you want is the norm. Fresh material is always made available by the operators. New locations are always out there, but I just finished a mapping project at a place that has been collected at for 200 years and found a 120-year-old dump in plain site that has not been touched, probably because it was not shown in the last guidebook written about collecting there. When my guide comes out that spot will be available - and some were shocked that I would mention it and not dig it myself! I said, hey this place is public and what's the point of writing an incomplete guide. I am happy that collectors will have a new place to dig and it will be fun to see what turns up there. It wont even be hard work!

But as Rolf mentions, I was once the kid who walked around a dump looking at the ground and not finding anything until an experienced old collector said, "Kid, you gotta dig down to the bottom!" Been doing it ever since...

2nd Jun 2018 15:01 UTCDavid K. Joyce Expert

I've found, over the years, that when someone says a site is "all worked out" or "finished", it is often not true. I have often found excellent specimens worthy of going into my personal collection, at "worked out" sites, which is always my main goal when field collecting. Of course, some localities do end, for various reasons: change of ownership, bona fide being "worked out" or being paved or built over. There are always new spots to go to, however, and old "lost" locations to re-discover. Many of them require very hard work, effort and skill that many people seem to take for granted or are not willing to do. Creativity, perseverance and "chutzpah" (or some combination of these)are sometimes required to convince owners or companies to allow collecting, where it has been previously denied. Certainly, often, many trips to the same locality are required to "figure it out", to understand the geology, in order to accomplish finding the right or new spot where the excellent specimens are found.

Many years ago, I remember hearing something that Bart Cannon, a superb NW field collector, said, that resonated for me throughout my collecting career. He said, paraphrased, "I have an idea of what calibre of specimen is possible at a certain location, so I keep going back until I find one. Then I start all over again at a new location". Or something like that. I gather that, often, he made many trips to the same locality before finding what he thought was possible. He has/had a great personally-collected mineral collection!

Anyway, these words reflect my outlook.

David K. Joyce

2nd Jun 2018 16:42 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

A number of good points have been made and I wanted to add the factor of going to a site numerous times to find the right place to dig has been important in my field collecting. The Hilltop Mine in Arizona is a prime example. The dumps are huge but in digging here and digging there I came across a spot where apparently a whole ore car of rich galena material had been dumped. In digging, everything was coated by red iron mud and only the weight told which chunks were galena and which just iron ores. The galena here happened to produce what are still my favorite anglesites ever found. The crystal pockets were in the galena chunks and were nearly invisible because colorless crystals in silvery broken galena were hard to spot. The specimens were all for under the microscope but still best crystals of anglesite I ever collected.

Took a friend to the dump and let him dig since I had plenty in my collection. He found the best piece yet, a nearly 30 pound chunk of galena and anglesite with plenty of the colorless anglesite crystals. I was "almost" envious but I had mine so why not let him find great stuff too.

My point here is the dump is huge and I found one great spot where very rich material had been discarded. There may just be other spots just like it in the big dump but I got what I hoped for and leave others to find those spots. Can't even imagine digging to the bottom of the dump at Hilltop but maybe a few generations from now people who look for old places will still have plenty to look for.

2nd Jun 2018 16:45 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Figure I may as well post a photo of the anglesite I have been talking about.

2nd Jun 2018 21:53 UTCAndrew Debnam 🌟

I would 100 percent echo Dave Joyce's remarks. I have read this thread with some curiosity and to be honest disappointment with some of rather negative our at the very least less than optimistic views. To be certain the modern world has made it harder on some fronts to find great specimens. Hard and perseverance however never go out of style and still work. To any newbies out there, keep the faith as that great specimen is still out there for you.

2nd Jun 2018 23:51 UTCDoug Schonewald

I'm not sure what the trends might be elsewhere but I've yet to see a single person collecting in the areas I hunt for specimens (central Washington away from the Cascades) . Perhaps it is because the areas are not in guides, nor are they renowned locations. Perhaps it is because even when I go to locations in a guide I stay on the periphery of where everyone else goes. Perhaps it is because my chosen areas are far from any population areas and there are few mineral collectors (there are plenty of lapidarists and they seek out specific and known locations to gather their specimens) in the area. If I see any trend it is that more and more mineral collectors have been in contact with me and someday I hope I can get together with some of them to collect some of these obscure Central Washington locations before I am too old to do so.

3rd Jun 2018 03:48 UTCD Mike Reinke

I prefer to 'putter around' as Rolf said, because I'm "older" now. But micros do it for me. Some pretty ones can be found in the weathered grounds as well as in tailings. I recently found in old tailings nearby, a tetrahexahedral Fluorite micro. Very tiny, but under the scope, all lit up, it's...huge!...Anyway, who wants to run out of room that quickly?

3rd Jun 2018 05:37 UTCJon Aurich

Goldfield Nevada is a great collecting spot for Famatinite, Bismuthinite, Goldfieldite, Alunite and many other minerals, including Native Gold. The district is a great place for these high acid Sulphides. In 1904, Goldfield was world famous because of the fabulously rich Gold Ore that was encountered there. Today, there is a lot to see of this district from heavily stained tailings from the Sulphides to the head frames that still mark the famous mines.

3rd Jun 2018 16:10 UTCDonald B Peck Expert

I agree with Mike (and I am older than he - - 88) I love the micros: they are beautiful; often cannot be found as macros; not expensive; comparatively easy to find; usually don't require a lot of hard work; don't require a lot of space for the collection; and did I say they are beautiful (they have their "uglies", too). When I was field collecting, I mostly just looked at what the macro collectors threw away.

3rd Jun 2018 23:22 UTCPaul Brandes 🌟 Manager

Personally, I believe the future of mineral collecting is in fact micros for all the reasons you mention, Don. Many people just don't realise what a wonderful world can be found in a micro.

Reading the above comments, I should have prefaced my own comment with the statement that location is everything. I too live in a very mineralogically boring part of the country in SE Texas. For me, just to get to any decent collecting areas is a four hour trek (and that's if Austin traffic is light). So, when I finally reach a site, I have to be very well educated on the area and know exactly what to look for, otherwise I've wasted a lot of time. The one exception is the Keweenaw where I was raised and can usually spend 3-4 weeks there at a time. I have background knowledge, know where the best sites are, and know what I'm looking for, so for me collecting there is easy and straight forward. But, I realise that for many people, that simply isn't the case, and no fault of their own. The logistics of spending that much time for most people is not an option. Yet, time and patience is required to give one the best opportunity for finding the best material, even in areas that are so called "played out".

4th Jun 2018 19:49 UTCMatt Ciranni

I think, as mentioned, it's all about discovering sites that are "off the books," so to speak. That is, not listed in any guidebooks. I've found some of my best crystals and mineral specimens at such sites.

Of the top four quartz crystal producing sites in Idaho, one of them (Lolo Pass) was closed to digging by the forest service after someone died when their digging pit collapsed on top of him. Another one (in the foothills east of Cascade/McCall area) got closed when the land changed ownership. Sold to two Texas billionaires, as it turns out. While a third spot, Dismal Swamp north of Featherville, is technically still open but it has been mined out/cleaned out, and is no longer producing specimens.

The fourth spot has never been mentioned in any collecting guidebooks, and consequently is the only one (that I know of...) where you can actually find anything by digging. And I'm assuming, or hoping, that there are plenty of other spots in my state that are yet to be discovered that will produce many fine specimens. This is where it takes a lot of work and research, a lot of exploring, a lot of "who you know" insider knowledge, and a lot of luck.

4th Jun 2018 21:37 UTCScott Rider

All is not lost in the states, but it can be with a few bad people... A few tidbits to help some of the newbies out there. Join a gem and mineral club and/or societies; be friendly with locals when you visit new areas, talk to them. And respect them and their land. I have had success in just talking to land owners, townspeople, etc. and being friendly with them. It goes a LONG WAY!! And if you do gain permission to one's property, make SURE YOU RESPECT HIS/HER LAND.

By this, I mean DO NOT LITTER. Fill in the holes and try to make it look as close to the original land as you can, within limitations of one's self. Make sure you tell them what you found, how and where... Be honest. Be respectful... These will not only help you access the land but also set it up for future prospectors/rockhounds that may want to come visit.

Part of what causes closures are people who do not give a damn about what they are doing. I've seen many littered holes with junk and crap all over. I have seen monster digs that were not filled in. I've heard of people who lie and don't tell landowners what they have found. These all will make the landowner NOT want to let anyone else dig there... And guess what... They tell their neighbor's and friends, whom may own land, and they too will refuse people to dig. In some areas, its too late. People abused the grateful wishes of landowners, WHOM ARE DOING YOU A FAVOR BY LETTING YOU DIG ON THEIR LANDS. It can be a domino effect, one bad experience can cause issues for other locations because of word-of-mouth...

Since that #*$#* Prospector show, I've seen so many new holes and trash all over my favorite digging areas. That will piss of the Forest Service as well, whom have closed down many access points because of people abusing what they have... I really don't have a solution for that, other than to educate others to respect the land... Unfortunately, here in Colorado and just in the last year, I have heard of 4 road closures in Lake George and Saguache Co. that has made traveling to the sites much more difficult or impossible.

Positive side of things though: Joining a club will give people much more access to land, and usually club members will educate others on how to find stuff, but also how to clean up the site so that it keeps the outdoors looking beautiful. I truly believe that there can be harmony between diggers and nature if we can somehow get people to respect others and nature... (Probably wishful thinking though)

But to beat a dead horse here... YOU GOT TO RESPECT THE LAND AND THOSE WHO OWN THE PROPERTY... Not doing so screws yourself, but everyone else.

4th Jun 2018 22:55 UTCJon Aurich

That’s right Scott, I am a land owner of about 50 acres of prime Epithermal Sulphide deposits in the mining district of Goldfield. I have given permission to certain people that have detected great specimens of Sulphide rich Gold at the tailing piles. Thinking that the Visitors were using the specimens to enhance their collections, they were selling them on the internet and also leaving holes for me to fill at the tailing piles !! Nowadays, it’s hard to allow visitors to access our property, always worried about liability from a fall or some type of accident.

23rd Jun 2018 18:37 UTCUwe Ludwig

Sometimes I watch here in Germany a TV movie series named “Rocky Mountain Miners”. A movie team accompanies some commercially collectors digging in some mountain areas in Colorado. Does anybody know this series?

Because I’m curious whether the shown situation is a fake or the defacto situation there. These movies agree the apprehension of Bob Harman that it will be very hard to be a hobby collector in the US. It seems the ground where they dig is no private properity. However, the collecting teams defent their location sometimes with firearms agains other collectors.

The second thing which makes me astonished is the fact that the finds are in my eyes mostly a little bit humble to cause the exultation and the efforts of the teams. There is only one team which recover high end Amazonite/Smoky Quartz specimen but the finds of the other teams are little single smoky quartz and quartz crystalls and small single Aquamarine pieces far away to are specimen for a collection. They say that they can exist by their finds. I can not belive that - or are I wrong?

I will not come in the postion to look for minerals in the US but I am interestd whether the situation is really so as in the a.m. movie series.

Rgds.

Uwe Ludwig

23rd Jun 2018 19:35 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

This sounds like the show called "Prospectors" in the US. Please see if this is the same as “Rocky Mountain Miners” : https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=prospectors+season+1

24th Jun 2018 09:32 UTCUwe Ludwig

Yes Kevin, that are these series. It is very spotfull and I like to warch it (and it is a really pretty woman ) but is this the real situation in Colorado?

Rgds

Uwe Ludwig

24th Jun 2018 10:07 UTCKevin Hean

Uwe. Every prospector I know is as rough as a bear's bum in cold water,

and the women certainly don't dress as they do on the TV show :-)

24th Jun 2018 13:29 UTCChris Rayburn

Hi Uwe,

Like several fellow Mindaters, I'm a mineral collector based in Colorado and have personally collected for many years in the localities featured on Prospectors (Rocky Mountain Miners). I assure you that what you see on TV is highly dramatized. I have never been chased from a collecting site by an armed claimholder. As in other areas of the US, the richest and most productive areas are often covered with mining claims, and may contain tracts of private property. Information about mining claims and land ownership is readily available. I have had good luck over the years approaching claimholders and land owners for permission to collect, and there are still many unclaimed areas on public lands that are open for prospecting. That's not to say that all mineral collectors respect claims and property rights. As others have pointed out, a few disrespectful collectors can make it more difficult for the majority of us that try to do the right thing. My point is that the scenarios you see on Rocky Mountain Miners are staged entertainment, not reality. Please feel free to contact me if you ever have the opportunity to visit Colorado, and I'll happily demonstrate this in person!

Cheers

Chris

24th Jun 2018 13:35 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

In regard to the land status. Most Federally owned land (640 million acres) is open to "claiming" under the 1872 Mining Act with approximately 400,000 active claims. This allows one to claim up to 40 acres of mineral rights either by doing annual assessment work or paying a fee to the Bureau of Land management. In the past, one could apply for a patent to the mining property which sold the surface and mineral rights to the mining company. Thus the richer mines have passed into private hands.

24th Jun 2018 15:21 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

I wanted to add something that Alfredo had said earlier and that is the amount of work one would be willing to put into collecting.

This is a little bit of a side trip but at some of my favorite collecting places, smaller mines and prospects, I have always looked at the collapsing shafts and wondered what has been left underground since most of the early working was for "metallics" that were the prime ores. Since a lot of mineralization is adjacent to the main ore veins, Red Cloud is an example, there are probably a few things still down there in the ground that would be very nice quality specimens. There I have discussed with my wife that if I were "rich" I would buy a property if it was still available and then do what the above mentioned private collecting locations have done, go after nice specimens.

There are a number of these locations I would love to do this but the costs are waaaaaaay to high or the access is restricted by various laws and mining allowances by state or government higher up. Same example with Red Cloud, the overseeing government agencies made the outfit follow all the standards of a major mining operation and virtually drove the collectors out of business.

So, it will remain a dream but I am sure Alfredo is right that there are still a number of things down in the old mines that are yet to be found.

Dreaming is fun.

29th Jun 2018 11:51 UTCUwe Ludwig

Thank you Chris, that is so as I supposed. Normally I know the US-Americians (met some by business trips) as friendly and helpfull guys.

Rgds.

Uwe Ludwig

29th Jun 2018 16:40 UTCHolger Hartmaier 🌟

The average collector is limited to mainly surface collecting from bedrock exposures and shallow rock cuts either on public lands or private lands with permission. Unfortunately public land access is gradually diminishing with increasing legislation restricting collecting activities and creation of new parks. Rare public access is granted to active mining operations these days due to liability issues. Weathered, near-surface bedrock exposures lack the potential to yield the better quality specimens that could be produced from underground or deeper open pit mining operations.

I recall that when the Caland iron ore mine in Atikokan, Ontario was in operation, they used to periodically dump a truck load of mine-run ore next to the public viewpoint overlooking the open pit so people could grab some samples of freshly-mined ore grade material. Current mining regulations require closure planning, typically requiring mine operations to be completely decommissioned and reclaimed, ideally to "walkaway" condition. Unfortunately this usually means waste rock dumps, particularly those containing sulfide minerals, being encapsulated and covered. Open pit excavations are usually allowed to flood and slopes need to be stabilized and covered to prevent erosion. Therefore collectors have decreased access to host rocks mined at greater depths, possibly containing associated minerals, many that might not normally be found in surface exposures.

As Rolf notes, those abandoned mines across North America which remain un-reclaimed may still yield associated minerals of interest to collectors, but the average collector puts themselves at great personal risk to enter some of these areas. Getting the safety requirements in place to re-work these old mines for specimen-grade material does mean meeting certain government standards because the safety of workers (and the public) is at risk. If it was possible, I would welcome mining companies consider reclaiming their mining operations to leave public access to certain mine rock waste dumps for collecting purposes, or at least consider mineral salvaging operations before closure to recover specimens of mineralogical interest, such as was done by Cominco with the University of British Columbia when the Bluebell Mine in Riondel, BC was closed in the 1970's. I commend those "specimen mining" ventures that were able to bring material out of old workings into the collector market, requiring a great deal of up-front investment to drain or pump-out, rehabilitate and stabilize surface and underground excavations, provide ventilation and stabilize new workings.

3rd Aug 2018 22:03 UTCEdward R. Tindell

I have been collecting for over 50 years now and I have a very large collection, maybe 70,000+ specimens. Whenever I go collecting I only look for two things: new and better. Most every site you could ever go to has already been visited by somebody else and there is usually a list of the things that have already been found at that locality. So when I am out collecting, say at the Crater Of Diamonds, I don't just look for diamonds. Over 40 rocks and minerals have been found there and I look for all of them. The new ones I've never found and better specimens of what I have already found. New and better. It's important to keep you eyes open for whatever is available. When the Chinese were mining tourmaline in Southern California a hundred years ago they were throwing away anything they found that wasn't green so there is not much elbaite to be found in some places but there is lots of rubellite. I hear the same thing is true of opals at Coober Pedy. I run into too many people who either think "I can't do anything with that!" because they are only looking for big pieces of lapidary material that they can cut and slab or they see no "value" in a rock because they couldn't get much for it if they sold it. I like hunting with those folks because they leave a lot of good stuff for me to pick up. I used to lead field trips and I always loved to walk behind the fastest moving person in the group. i was just waiting for them to inevitably pass up a great find because they were going too fast to look so I could stop and say, with a loud voice, "Who left this here? Now I have to pick it up!" And i always love to go to big collecting sites, like the ranches out in West Texas, where everybody else quickly rushes off to the horizon to be the "first and farthest" than anybody else because they always left the front of the site untouched and that is where I made many a great find. Enjoy your collecting trips and remember the golden rule: if you put a rock in somebody else's hand, it's theirs.

6th Feb 2019 17:06 UTCWes Haley

Well said posts here, good reading, thanks!

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