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GeneralAsbestos Piles or Pile of BS?
8th Jun 2010 07:53 UTCEzekiel Hughes
Swift Creek, Everson WA Sumas Mt.:
http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/jadadara/SIGNS/038.jpg
It is private timberland, and being now posted is officially off limits. i realize that I will have to try to get special permission to collect on the creek now, but that seems unlikely as this probably has more to do with liability than public safety. My question is this: REALLY? Are we now going to start shutting down public access to all natural hazzards? I say, block off all access to the Grand Canyon....you might fall!
8th Jun 2010 10:41 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert
8th Jun 2010 12:22 UTCFrank de Wit Manager
It's the only sign that I know of with a mineral-name in it :)
8th Jun 2010 13:26 UTCMark Gottlieb
8th Jun 2010 15:14 UTCJim Daly
8th Jun 2010 15:29 UTCFranz Bernhard Expert
But avoid the bed under all circumstances! About 98% of all people die in the bed. So beware!
Franz Bernhard
8th Jun 2010 15:37 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager
8th Jun 2010 16:29 UTCGreg Kokolus
Perhaps you may want to quietly ask a few questions as to why this sign was posted.
Someone within the Health Department might be willing to talk.
I'm guessing that an engineering firm or surveying team identified this area as having asbestos.
The words dredge piles suggest that something was going on with this area of the river and that they were moving material.
The members of Mindat tend to be a savy lot and we don't run screaming when we hear about asbestiform minerals or radioactivity.
That's because we understand what they are and the safeguards for handling such materials.
If there were heavy concentrations of naturally occuring Asbestos in the area, I don't think it isn't necessarily imprudent to point out the risks,
especially if people could play with rich samples found lying on the ground. "Look Mommy at the fuzzy rock I found, can I take it home?". You get the idea.
Regards,
Greg Kokolus
8th Jun 2010 19:50 UTCEzekiel Hughes
8th Jun 2010 20:41 UTCAnonymous User
Unfortunately, a symptom of our lawsuit-happy culture. The landowner is not necessarily at fault - rather the legions of people eager to get their settlement.
Best of luck jade-hunting round your new place.
Ken
8th Jun 2010 23:13 UTCColleen Thomson Expert
i just LOVE your warning sign! :D
9th Jun 2010 00:17 UTCEzekiel Hughes
http://yosemite.epa.gov/r10/cleanup.nsf/sites/swiftcreek
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Creek_Landslide
swift creek
Wikipedia
So it is an over-reaction by the Whatcom County health dept. based on an EPA report. Sure, don't play on the dredge piles (the piles are on Farmland....I recall seeing them now heading toward Nooksack/Everson.)
I have an asbestos rated mask...maybe they'll let me in if I promise to wear it LOL! So this is REALLY about flooding, not asbestos...someone just jumped to the wrong conclusion when they heard the A word.
9th Jun 2010 06:54 UTCcharles kraft
From: http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/hollister/clear_creek_management_area.html
Based on the results of the Environmental Protection Agency’s CCMA Asbestos Exposure and Human Health Risk Assessment, the Bureau of Land Management Hollister Field Office has issued a Temporary Closure, effective May 1, 2008, to all forms of entry and public use for approximately 31,000 acres of public lands in the Clear Creek Management Area (CCMA) to protect public health and safety.
9th Jun 2010 07:02 UTCRay Hill Expert
26th Jun 2010 01:13 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager
The town of Wittenoon in Western Australia has literally been "removed" from maps becasue of the tons and tons of blue asbestos lying around. The asbestos was even used in road construction. But the exposed ground itself and related mine dumps are not sealed. The wind blows this dust everywhere. There are also numerous abandoned asbestos mines in New South Wales and those dumps also are exposed to the elements. When the wind blows the asbestos dust spread around very easily.
When we note that some outback dust storms have resulted in dust being blown across the Tasman Sea to New Zealand then I am sure that most of us in NSW have been exposed to some amounts of asbestiform dust just from NSW mines. I'm sure that everyone on the east coast of Australia also have been exposed to radioactive dusts blown from Maralinga in South Australia where they carried out nuclear testing.
All of these mines and of course Maralinga rightly have signs advising of the dangers.
I don't think that the signs or in particular the sign to which Ezekial refers is BS or in deed as later mentioned, an over reaction.
It is unclear from the comments whether mining has actually been carried on there in the past, only current dredging of the creek. The sign merely informs that the area is unsafe and potentially dangerous. I guess if there is landslippage then that itself is a major danger which also should have been mentioned on the sign. If there has been any asbestos mining carried out in the area in the past then that will inevitably have created crushed asbestos, exposure to which you don't want. If naturally occuring asbestos has been exposed to the elements and has been eroded away due to either to the forces of nature or the impact of man then even those amounts of dust could potentially cause harm.
Is it an overaction ? ,,, maybe, but whether as just an average uninformed citizen or an experienced collector I would want to know or at least be advised of the potential dangers.
And Yes, before anyone chips in, all mining is dangerous and care needs to be taken, irrespective of above ground or below ground collecting. You could even slip over in a river while collecting and drown!.
The bigger problem is that of asbestos mines that have ceased and have not been fully remidiated. That just leaves a problem for some future generation.
Cheers
26th Jun 2010 01:30 UTCEzekiel Hughes
No mining, just a land slide at the headwaters.
And a correction...there are dredge piles on the creek past the sign as well as below it...I just didn't notice them before. They were selling for fill, cement and what not at first...now I guess it's just going to sit there.
26th Jun 2010 13:19 UTCEric D. Fritzsch 🌟
"(3) ELONGATED MINERAL PARTICLE- The term `elongated mineral particle' means a single crystal or similarly elongated polycrystalline aggregate particle with a length to width ratio of 3 to 1 or greater.
(4) BIOPERSISTENT ELONGATED MINERAL PARTICLE- The term `biopersistent elongated mineral particle' means an elongated mineral particle that--
(A) occurs naturally in the environment; and
(B) is similar to asbestos in--
(i) resistance to dissolution;
(ii) leaching; and
(iii) other physical, chemical, or biological processes expected from contact with lung cells and other cells and fluids in the human body."
This act, if passed, could outlaw the sale of many asbestos-like mineral specimens, but also non asbestos minerals like tourmaline (3:1 ratio, resistant to dissolution, etc). We could all be stuck only collecting isometric water-soluble minerals.
Yes, asbestos containing building materials did and does cause a lot of health problems. But when riebeckite is outlawed, then only outlaws will have riebeckite.
26th Jun 2010 15:30 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager
26th Jun 2010 16:20 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert
These fears obvioiusly has been created by politicians and a compliant dumbed down media who sit in their studios in major cities, insulated from trom the real world. I live in a country in which most people don't care what they pump into their bodies but yet they panic when they hear the words asbestos, radon, radioactivity, coal and oil. The entire approach to these issues is contradictory and hypocritical with no critic offering any alternative to getting rid of these hazards. Artificial fertilizers, for example, are always on the list of to be banned products yet bureaucrats in Washington want to fine farmers in the state of Pennsylvania for using MANURE as a fertilizer because they contend the use of same is contaminating the Chesapeake Watershed which, of course, drains past Washington, DC.
I spoke with a couple of these bureaucratcs recently and was shocked and aggravated by their flippant attitude relative to the contradictions in their beliefs and the economic disaster that would occur. Do you recall the media created hysteria surrounding the approach of year 2000? Planes were supposed to fall out of the sky, ships would stop, power plants would shut down and all sorts of computer programs would crash. Recently, the media was obscessed with the bird flu and pumped out thousands of hours and pages of stories about an epidemic (according to them) that would kill millions. Fox News, with its dyed blonde headed bimbos, was the worst offender.
Recently the media reported a story about a suggestion to put a dome over a volcano in Hawaii to prevent gasses from affecting the surrounding vegetation. This is proof (in my humble opinion) that science and logic will never win. The boogey man is alive and well in the United States, so as Jolyon suggests: stay at home!
Best wishes,
Joe
26th Jun 2010 16:58 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert
For your viewing pleasure, from the civilian and media outlets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUbpuIJZu90. Civilian visitors to Asbestos, Canada.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Baq7DvGUjsU CGC report.
Best,
Joe
26th Jun 2010 17:32 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager
26th Jun 2010 20:55 UTCGord Howe
Gord
27th Jun 2010 03:07 UTCJim Bean 🌟
I haven't heard what they will decide to replace it with.
27th Jun 2010 04:27 UTCMichael Hatskel
27th Jun 2010 05:00 UTCEzekiel Hughes
-------------------------------------------------------
> If people are selling beads with the healing
> powers to treat/prevent anything including breast
> cancer (saw that on a mineral show earlier this
> year), why couldn't those guys come up with the
> asbestos risk-mitigating beads?! People would
> gladly wear such beads when they need to enter any
> areas where ultramafic rocks are present. B)
LOL! Put me down for two. I'm sure the health dept. will find this an acceptable compromise...bad science countered with pseudo-science!
here are the new OSHA guidelines for rockhounding in easy to understand pictiures:
OSHA approved rockhounding:
http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/jadadara/dig.gif
Non-OSHA approved rockhounding;
http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/jadadara/asbestos.jpg
OSHA SAYS:
http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/jadadara/asbestos_guy.jpg
ARE YOU READY TO ROCK?
27th Jun 2010 12:39 UTCAndy Givens
i collected a bunch of really nice serpentine, with thin layers of chrysotile in it......
is this dangerous to be collecting????
should i stop?????
...andy
27th Jun 2010 16:06 UTCVandall Thomas King Manager
27th Jun 2010 16:29 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
>ok, so now im not sure on what to do......
>i collected a bunch of really nice serpentine, with thin layers of chrysotile in it......
>is this dangerous to be collecting????
>should i stop?????
No-one here is qualified to give health advice about such issues, it's up to you to make your own decisions or consult an expert. The risk from asbestiform minerals is from inhaling of fibrous particles, so there is no risk for example from specimens in sealed plastic boxes.
27th Jun 2010 16:29 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert
Great information; now I can discuss the issue with my paranoid friends.
Go to this link and you will see the list of sponsors and co-sponsors in Congress;
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-742
Not being judgemental, but I wonder what these people would say if they found this crystal structure in pot? Do you remember the formaldahyde in beer scare from a few years ago?
Best,
Joe
29th Jun 2010 18:08 UTCEd Godsey
-------------------------------------------------------
> Go to this link and you will see the list of
> sponsors and co-sponsors in Congress;
>
> http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110
> -742
>
> Not being judgemental, but I wonder what these
> people would say if they found this crystal
> structure in pot? Do you remember the
> formaldahyde in beer scare from a few years ago?
Being a resident of Washington state I'm not surprised that Patty "mom in tennis shoes" Murray attempted to get this POS passed. She was voted the second dumbest member of Congress by the whole Senate staff a couple of years ago. Also note that 20 of the 21 co-sponsors were Progressives, the current term for Socialists.
29th Jun 2010 22:07 UTCLinda Smith
30th Jun 2010 03:33 UTCEzekiel Hughes
In regards to Swift Creek, the simple fact is, is that the owners have the right to post thier property however they want. That's a conservative value is it not? These issues of access have nothing to do with weather you are a conservative or a progressive. I'm personally sick and tired of hearing about the 'tyranny' of government...and even more tired of having to hear it on forums where one would hope folks would be a little more cerebral...this is the U.S.A...you are the government.
However, I have no reservations giving bureaucracies a hard time. We all know they are thier own beast that need constant monitoring by the public.
I should know better than to respond to a partisan post, but my comrades might take me out to the quarry and shoot me if I don't respond on a thread I started ;-)
And in regards to changing the state rock in CA...yes, that's just asinine.
30th Jun 2010 16:07 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager
14th Jul 2010 09:54 UTCEzekiel Hughes
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Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2024, except where stated. Most political location boundaries are © OpenStreetMap contributors. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters. Founded in 2000 by Jolyon Ralph.
Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us / DMCA issues - Report a bug/vulnerability Current server date and time: April 27, 2024 00:53:45