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GeneralArizonal locality

20th Nov 2016 19:59 UTCR. Peter Richards Expert

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I have some microcrystal samples of vanadinite, short prismatic yellow with orange-red pyramidal terminations, from Bill Hunt materials. The locality is listed as Black Buttes Claim, near Constellation, Maricopa Co., AZ.


I can find nothing about this locality. The only Constellation I can find is in Yavapai County, not far to the north of the northern border of Maricopa County. No apatite group minerals are listed from there!


Does anyone have any information about an appropriate locality for these crystals?


Thanks,

Pete Richards

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20th Nov 2016 20:12 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

I certainly don't & I am quite familiar with Arizona localities & material. There are "new" named claims & mines that haven't made it into the literature yet. The fact that Constellation is close to the county line is a clue that someone may have given it a scientific wild ass guess of its actual county.

20th Nov 2016 23:27 UTCgeorge stevens (2)

From Wickenburg take Constellation Rd. north up past Monte Cristo and Gold Bar mines to O'Brien Gulch, go right about 1/4 mile. Corner Spring shows on topo on hill above,,there is a road that goes up past it to a tunnel. This is it, there is a incline shaft and several prospects there. About 29 years ago I found Galena,Vanadinite, Cerussite, Willemite and Descloizite there. Rooad at bottom of hill is washed out. Good Luck George Stevens

21st Nov 2016 03:25 UTCR. Peter Richards Expert

That's interesting, George. Did the vanadinite you found look anything like what I pictured?


Pete

21st Nov 2016 03:36 UTCR. Peter Richards Expert

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OK, I will now make this wild goose chase even wilder. I perhaps should start a new thread, but this is related to the previous stuff and I hate to proliferate threads.


1) The previous inquiry was prompted by discovering that the locality for one of my specimens did not seem to make sense.

2) I was looking at that specimen because I got a new sample recently that had no locality information at all.

3) The new sample is similar to the specimens I started this thread with in being an apatite group mineral with yellow prisms and orange tips, though the new ones are really elongated crystals, and characterized by their splitting at the ends where they turn orange.

4) Preliminary EDS seems to indicate that these are mimetite with a vanadinite core - more work on oriented cross sections is needed....

5) EDS also indicates that tiny associated crystals are descloisite.


So what I REALLY want to know is where these elongated crystals come from. Most likely from the southwest, possibly Arizona but maybe not.


Any offers on this one?!!! The crystals shown are about 1 to 2 mm long.

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21st Nov 2016 03:38 UTCDana Slaughter 🌟 Expert

I believe that there existed at least one Black Butte claim specimen in the historic Arthur L. Flagg (1883-1961) collection donated to the Flagg Mineral Foundation by the Flagg family of Tucson. The name is familiar to me and I think that perhaps a Flagg catalog entry is what I remember...I may be wrong. I'll have to check the over 5000 entries in the catalog and will respond in time.


George is a veteran AZ field collector and has been to more AZ localities than almost anyone imaginable---his response here can certainly be trusted.

21st Nov 2016 15:48 UTCR. Peter Richards Expert

With respect to the second set of images I posted, of "matchstick" mimetite, a search for all mimetite images led me to one that seems a near match to these. It is from the Sammy Dog Mine, Silver Bell District, Silver Bell Mts, Pima Co., Arizona, USA and has minID 140-Y0P (though I could not figure our how to search using this ID). If you're interested, I invite you to check it out and see if you agree that this is a likely match!

21st Nov 2016 16:04 UTCR. Peter Richards Expert

Thanks! Is there a "button" for this within the Mindat pages?

21st Nov 2016 16:39 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

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It's a button under when you click the Advanced Search button

21st Nov 2016 22:32 UTCgeorge stevens (2)

My specimens were only half a crystal not doubleterminated like yours. There is a old specimen from this mine with micro crocoite crystals on it.

Also in Amazon Wash there are prospects with very bright vanadinite and Wulfenite, not sure just where in the wash its a pretty big area. Your Sammy Dog Mine Mimetite has several other mine names Gods Claim,Copper Point prospect and the actual mine name is the Ironwood Mine located west of Silver Bell Mine several miles in Pima County.

22nd Nov 2016 03:10 UTCR. Peter Richards Expert

Thanks, George. This is very helpful!


Pete Richards

3rd Dec 2016 03:16 UTCR. Peter Richards Expert

Having now managed to mount a few crystals and get cross-sections perpendicular to the long axis (c-axis), and having looked at them with EDS, it is clear that at least my crystals are about 90% vanadinite with a skin of mimetite on the outside. The transition is not marked by a color change in the actual specimen, or by a conspicuous change in contrast in the EDS image, but spot analyses and analyses along transects from exterior to interior clearly show an abrupt composition change.


Though I'm not sure my sample is really from the Sammy Dog Mine, it might be worthwhile to check other examples. Vanadinite is not listed from there.

23rd Sep 2017 15:15 UTCGöran Axelsson Expert

Dana Slaughter Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I believe that there existed at least one Black

> Butte claim specimen in the historic Arthur L.

> Flagg (1883-1961) collection donated to the Flagg

> Mineral Foundation by the Flagg family of Tucson.

> The name is familiar to me and I think that

> perhaps a Flagg catalog entry is what I

> remember...I may be wrong. I'll have to check the

> over 5000 entries in the catalog and will respond

> in time.


A bit off topic from this discussion, but is there an online source of the Flagg collection?

The reason I'm asking is that I have three specimens that came from the Flagg collection and I was curious if there was some more history to find out about them. For example where he acquired them and when.


The specimens are :

3455 Berzelianite, Skrikerum, Sweden

3466 Högbomite, Routevara, Jokkmokk, Sweden

3487 Ludwigite, Tallgruvan, Norberg, Sweden


Göran

23rd Sep 2017 17:40 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

Göran, you may want to contact someone at the Flagg Mineral Foundation.

26th Sep 2017 07:35 UTCGöran Axelsson Expert

Thanks Kevin, I'll do that.

27th Sep 2017 08:45 UTCPhil Richardson

Goran,


I am the chairman of the Flagg Mineral Foundation and came across this topic. I was also involved in the Foundation acquiring the collection, and in the dispersal of the portion of the collection which didn't fit our focus.


In checking Mr. Flagg's catalog, specimens 3455 and 3466 match his entry, and there is a note indicating that specimens 3451 through 3474 were purchased by gift certificate from Wards Natural Science Establishment, gift from members of the Mineralogical Society of Arizona. No date is given, but it would have to be between 1935 to 1961. With these two specimens, you are lucky to have that much information, because the majority have no notes associated with them.


Now a problem exists with 3487, as the catalog lists red stilbite and laumontite, Prospect Park, New Jersey for that number. The closest catalog entry, for that species, is 3462, ludwigite & magnetite, Phillipsburg, Montana.


In the catalog there are only two listings for ludwigite. 3462, as previously mentioned, and 4784, Dog Lake mine, Big Cottonwood, Utah.


Phil Richardson

21st Oct 2017 15:03 UTCGöran Axelsson Expert

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Thanks for the answer and sorry for my late response.


It was very interesting to hear some background on these specimens. I have added them to my catalogue and pictures are coming soon. I'll include some in this thread meanwhile.




I have dug down a bit more in my notes from when I acquired these specimens. They were all bought in 2013. The last tricky one is quite rough on the surface so I might have misinterpreted the number on that one. It was also sold as "Fluoborite (TL), Ludwigite - Tall mine, Norberg, Sweden".

The correct number might be 3467. It definitely isn't the "Ludwigite and magnetite" specimen as there are no magnetic minerals in this one. The surface is a bit weathered except for one side that is cut. I don't feel confident that the minerals are what the label says so I have filed this under questionable specimens requiring more testing.


Is there an entry for #3467 and what does it say?
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And here is the other two rocks.
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