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GeneralManganese Nodule

22nd Sep 2017 14:25 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

I came across this manganese nodule in a box stored in my shed the other day and wondered about it a bit.

It is more interesting because of where it came from than any beauty. I looked on mindat and nothing about them there. Wikepedia mentioned both the locality and the nodules. Alfredo said they are found in the Pacific also and they even considered mining them but it was not economic.

I think the piece might be of interest to the people on mindat but I have no idea how and where to put a few photos. Would like some input on this so I can add photos.

22nd Sep 2017 14:44 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

A locality page for Blake Plateau could be created under the Atlantic Ocean page.

22nd Sep 2017 15:23 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Refs.:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17739590

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-68344-2_22

22nd Sep 2017 15:32 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Uwe,

Thank you for the references. I had read about these a while back and nice to see papers on them.

Kevin,

Looked under the Atlantic Ocean and I see that there is one on the page under Manganese Oxides and I could put it under this and then give the location in the explanation.

Seems you answered my question as to where to place it.

If someone later does do a sub locality I can move it easily.

Thanks all.

Rolf

22nd Sep 2017 15:41 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Thank you and I posted the photos of the nodule and the original label. Now only need to await approval.

Rolf

22nd Sep 2017 15:58 UTCDon Saathoff Expert

We've got two or three (will have to find them!) found on a Texas beach....I don't remember which beach. I'm surprised the UFOlogists haven't claimed that the Blake Plateau is the proof of a "base of operations" for our extra-terrestrial visitors (LOL!!) It is obviously large enough for a major installation!!

Don

22nd Sep 2017 16:14 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

No one ever seriously considered mining these. That was a cover story for the CIA recovery of a Russian sub and its codes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian

23rd Sep 2017 03:23 UTCJim Allen

Rob Woodside Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> No one ever seriously considered mining these.

> That was a cover story for the CIA recovery of a

> Russian sub and its codes.

My first job out of college, in 1984, was as a research engineer in a federal Bureau of Mines lab in Utah. I was part of its ocean mineral development program. We worked on processing methods for manganese nodules, cobalt-rich manganese crusts, and other deep-sea resources. I remember that the lab had about 1000 lb of pacific nodules, which we identified as having been recovered by the Glomar Challenger, the CIA recovery ship. As we understood, the ship had actually dredged this material to bolster its cover story. There was also a much smaller quantity of Blake Plateau nodules, which looked exactly like Rolf's specimen, above. They usually had a snail in the center. The Pacific nodules has a rough, earthy exterior unlike the Blake Plateau material.

Kennecott and Sumitomo both had R&D programs aimed at mining sea nodules, as did the University of Hawaii. The Bureau of Mines was also doing R&D on mining technology. I remember a chain-bag dredge that was pretty successful, and a suction dredge (think of a 5000-meter garden hose) that was not. Nothing was ever shown to be economic, though it was closer than you might think.

The impetus for this research was the Reagan administration's concern about reliance on foreign sources of metals critical to the defense industry. A secondary driver was Reagan's declaration of a 300-mile Exclusive Economic Zone off shore of all U.S. territory.

It was interesting work. When the lab closed in 1996, I suspect all that material was taken to the landfill.

23rd Sep 2017 16:43 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

Thanks Jim. I think it was a cover story that caught too much imagination. Now Nautilus Co. is preparing to mine black smokers and all the mining heavy weights have invested in this project. This will probably happen in the next couple of years, unlike mining asteroids.

24th Sep 2017 14:17 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

I was doing a bit of looking today and on the mindat Atlantic page under sub localities I saw the "Black Plateau" listed and it seems to be right where the "Blake Plateau" is on the other internet maps. Is this the same place with more than one name?????

I am curious if anyone has noticed this and could give any information on it.

24th Sep 2017 15:06 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Rather than 2 names, it is likely that one is the real name and the other was a mistake by somebody with bad spelling or bad hearing.

25th Sep 2017 01:52 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

From the description text and references, it should be Blake. fixed.

26th Sep 2017 13:48 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

I had a small partial one I got while in college in the early 80s, but no specific location. We discussed them in geochemistry and oceanography classes because, before the discovery and understanding of the ocean floor vents, the origin of these was a real mystery. But later it was apparent that the Mn from these vents could travel in solution a long way (further than the more chalcophile elements) before the water conditions were right for its precipitation on the ocean floor where the nodules would build up around something, like concretions do in sediments. These distal Mn nodules are probably the origin for stratiform Mn deposits found in metamorphosed pelagic sediments here in New England (Betts Mn mine, Jail Hill Mn deposit and various so-called garnet coticule rocks).

26th Sep 2017 14:56 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Thank you everyone and I now placed it under the correct Blake Plateau.

Harold,

Thanks for the added information on the nodules. Fun to learn new things.

26th Sep 2017 15:01 UTCDana Morong

Thanks for the bit about the 'distal Mn nodules are probably the origin for' as I like to hear the origins of deposits and how they formed from previously recycled materials! I have some ideas on pegmatites and where some of the triphylite, apatite, and such came from (along with the black tourmaline) but I don't know whether these ideas have any real basis (if they do, I may have read something in some technical paper some time). I recall reading old geology books years ago, wondering why they said there was a sea here once, and forces pushed things up, but it was boring as they never told how and why. Now, with the understanding of plate tectonics, it explains how and why! It really brings some zip into one's life to understand how some of these things worked.

26th Sep 2017 15:25 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

Yeah, beware the old geology books...they go from sediment deposition to metamorphism in so-called "mobile belts" without any clue as to why that happened!

My geochem/oceanography professor wrote a big paper on ocean chemistry flux and it was published just before the papers on ocean floor spreading/volcanism came out in the 1960s, which completely negated all the assumptions and conclusions in his paper! That was a real game changer, so throw out anything that old, or even from before 2000 at least, as many, many details of tectonics and the interior workings of the earth, plus effects from asteroid impacts and the origins of ore deposits have changed considerably. And geochronology keeps getting more precise by the year. The Triassic/Jurassic boundary age has recently changed again, too, for example.

26th Sep 2017 18:32 UTCTony Nikischer 🌟 Manager

We acquired a large number of similar nodules some years ago, extracted from the Clarion-Clipperton Fracture Zone in the Pacific Ocean from a depth of approximately 5000 meters(!!). These were comprised primarily of birnessite and todorokite (confirmed by XRD), plus other MN-oxides, as well as a wide range of trace elements. I'll post some images eventually after figuring out how to properly phrase the locality in Mindat.

26th Sep 2017 18:36 UTCTony Nikischer 🌟 Manager

I see that Jeff Weissman has already posted images from our old stock for this material under teh locality of "Clarion-Clipperton Fracture Zone", so no need on my part to add more images of these ugly little black nodules!

26th Sep 2017 21:54 UTCDana Morong

I am not going to "throw out anything that old" as much of it contains good information, even general principles at times, only the understanding has been refined since then. As metals get refined (starting from minerals), so does understanding become refined. Sometimes it is useful to know what was understood long ago, and compare it with what is understood now. In a few cases, some of the ideas of old books are still valuable. For example, reading Townson's "Philosophy of Mineralogy" from 1798, shows that he was familiar with the theory that in general, when veins cuts across layers, those veins were generally younger than the layers that they cut across. And there are several other little gems of wisdom in his book, too, that I have enjoyed reading.

26th Sep 2017 22:01 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

Well, Dana, it's getting off topic. I meant that if you are trying to learn geology, stay away from the old texts until you have enough current knowledge and perspective that you dont have to unlearn what you read first in old texts. Many new texts will cover a history of earlier thinking, too.

23rd Oct 2017 14:20 UTCMichael Harwell

Good day or night all, I have a question regarding the white material in the center of the nodule. Does this material have anything to do with the identification of the nodule?

I have a stone, that I’ve been curious about for a while, and it has a similar center or clay like material positioned in the center much like this one. I’ll post a picture later after everyone wakes up and gets to school. But it has no manganese that I see.

I found my nodule on the coast near Fern Canyon in Humbolt county CA.

What maes this manganese nodule stand out compared to other purple-colored stones? But, I am more interested in the dull white material in the center especially if it has an important role in identifying the nodule.

Thank you in advance.

Mike

24th Oct 2017 02:07 UTCDoug Daniels

Yes Michael, we need a photo or two. What you are describing is not a manganese nodule (these are found deep in the ocean). Your's was found on the coast, so it is something from "uphill". And, manganese nodules aren't purple, they're black. Kinda ugly, but possibly very pretty economically, if one can figure out how to mine them profitably (so far we haven't).

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