Home PageAbout MindatThe Mindat ManualHistory of MindatCopyright StatusWho We AreContact UsAdvertise on Mindat
Donate to MindatCorporate SponsorshipSponsor a PageSponsored PagesMindat AdvertisersAdvertise on Mindat
Learning CenterWhat is a mineral?The most common minerals on earthInformation for EducatorsMindat ArticlesThe ElementsThe Rock H. Currier Digital LibraryGeologic Time
Minerals by PropertiesMinerals by ChemistryAdvanced Locality SearchRandom MineralRandom LocalitySearch by minIDLocalities Near MeSearch ArticlesSearch GlossaryMore Search Options
The Mindat ManualAdd a New PhotoRate PhotosLocality Edit ReportCoordinate Completion ReportAdd Glossary Item
Mining CompaniesStatisticsUsersMineral MuseumsClubs & OrganizationsMineral Shows & EventsThe Mindat DirectoryDevice SettingsThe Mineral Quiz
Photo SearchPhoto GalleriesSearch by ColorNew Photos TodayNew Photos YesterdayMembers' Photo GalleriesPast Photo of the Day GalleryPhotography
╳Discussions
💬 Home🔎 Search📅 LatestGroups
EducationOpen discussion area.Fakes & FraudsOpen discussion area.Field CollectingOpen discussion area.FossilsOpen discussion area.Gems and GemologyOpen discussion area.GeneralOpen discussion area.How to ContributeOpen discussion area.Identity HelpOpen discussion area.Improving Mindat.orgOpen discussion area.LocalitiesOpen discussion area.Lost and Stolen SpecimensOpen discussion area.MarketplaceOpen discussion area.MeteoritesOpen discussion area.Mindat ProductsOpen discussion area.Mineral ExchangesOpen discussion area.Mineral PhotographyOpen discussion area.Mineral ShowsOpen discussion area.Mineralogical ClassificationOpen discussion area.Mineralogy CourseOpen discussion area.MineralsOpen discussion area.Minerals and MuseumsOpen discussion area.PhotosOpen discussion area.Techniques for CollectorsOpen discussion area.The Rock H. Currier Digital LibraryOpen discussion area.UV MineralsOpen discussion area.Recent Images in Discussions
GeneralMindat articles - can we get them restored to prominence?
12th Dec 2018 23:09 UTCRoy Starkey 🌟 Manager
I am wondering if I am the only person who misses the short list of recent Mindat articles which used to be on the Home page? I think that the loss of this is greatly to the detriment of the site and the community. Previously a list of maybe 5 or 6 article titles remained visible on the front page, generally for a couple of weeks - plenty of time for people to notice and view them. Now, that space is occupied by a so-called 'live report' which is generally far from 'live', and is mostly rather static and out of date.
Here's a Xmas wish for Santa - let's restore the article title list to its former glory.
In the last few days we've 'missed'
https://www.mindat.org/article.php/2901/33.+Macro+Photography+with+Photo+Stacking+and+Tutorial
https://www.mindat.org/article.php/2900/Bakewell+Mineral+Show+-+2018+-+and+the+Royal+Cornwall+Museum
https://www.mindat.org/a/fersman
https://www.mindat.org/article.php/2894/The+Mines+and+Minerals+of+Lavrion+-+Actinolite
How about it Jolyon?
Thanks and Merry Xmas to all!
12th Dec 2018 23:22 UTCErin Delventhal Manager
This is a thing the management group has actively been working on - but I'm glad you've said something about it, because I absolutely feel the same!
Erin
13th Dec 2018 01:02 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager
I think I've been subconsciously awaiting its return before uploading more articles.
There has been some nagging in the background so I'm sure (hoping) it's not far away.
Nice snow by the way. Christmas here probably will be 40C plus as usual, so not expecting any snow !-:))
Cheers
13th Dec 2018 08:47 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
We need a system of approval and review before articles can appear on the home page. This will come, it's something that is in progress, but actually the biggest block to this is not technical but is the manpower required to review articles.
We will need to set up an article review team to ensure articles comply to certain standards, and we need to prepare this list of standards first. What claims can or cannot be made in an article? How do we deal with articles that describe collecting in areas where collecting is possibly restricted? How much of an article is opinion rather than factual (opinion isn't itself wrong, but it must be clear what is opinion and what is factual).
Added to this we have to review for factual accuracy, for grammar, we have to have some consistency with layouts and formatting, etc.
ie, all the jobs that a normal editor of a magazine does.
We could certainly do with some volunteer reviewers who would be happy to review and comment on other people's articles. This can be done as a peer-review type process where when someone writes an article, they can submit it for approval and once approved it gets published and listed on the home page. Alternatively you can skip this process and just publish without it going to the home page if you have something minor you're working on and approval/home page listing isn't important.
Ideally the volunteer reviewers shouldn't be the same as those already volunteering to review photographs as that is already a time consuming task, but as with photographs we many need reviewers who are experts in particular regions to be able to properly review articles from their areas.
But before all that, we need to define the rules. This is a task I have to lead probably within the management group, but if you or anyone else has strong views on this I would be delighted to have you involved.
13th Dec 2018 08:54 UTCVolker Betz 🌟 Expert
thank you to mention articles. In my opinion there is room for improvement. With the present situation posting an article is not encouraged.
Addtitional to the fact that formatting an article for mindat is laboriously compared to a pdf document.
Volker
13th Dec 2018 11:44 UTCLarry Maltby Expert
I see the point that there should be an approval system similar to the approval system for photos.
Personally, I am very happy with the tools that Mindat provides for formatting articles. The only improvement that I would like is the addition of a “quote box – left” and a “quote box – right” so that a photo could be shown to the left or right of a column of text.
The person that benefits the most from writing an article is the author. It channels your research and you learn from it.
13th Dec 2018 12:19 UTCWoody Thompson Expert
Perhaps somebody could take a quick look at each article to detect obvious deficiencies, but is that really necessary? The list of recent articles suggests that most of them are serious efforts to post worthy information on localities, minerals, museums, shows, etc. The work involved in submitting an article tends to deter careless, opinionated or otherwise frivolous postings. As Larry just pointed out, there are some topics on the front page that seem less important. As it stands now, with all of us being so busy, new articles are buried on "the back pages" and we are less likely to see them.
Happy Holidays to all!
Woody Thompson
13th Dec 2018 16:15 UTCKevin Conroy Manager
Regarding volunteer reviewers, I'm not a manager but I would be willing to help out. By far I'm most familiar with Missouri, USA minerals.
13th Dec 2018 16:45 UTCDoug Daniels
13th Dec 2018 16:55 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager
https://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,6,290335,290347#msg-290347
13th Dec 2018 17:03 UTCDoug Daniels
13th Dec 2018 17:20 UTCRoy Starkey 🌟 Manager
Jolyon, thank you too for considering the request and setting out the issues from a Mindat management standpoint.
A few thoughts below
The old system meant that any new article published appeared on the home page. This is quite risky for us now as articles published by mindat will seen to be coming from us. We need a system of approval and review before articles can appear on the home page. This will come, it's something that is in progress, but actually the biggest block to this is not technical but is the manpower required to review articles.
Previously there was a noticeable delay before an article was posted - I assumed that was a moderation process - was that not sufficient?
We will need to set up an article review team to ensure articles comply to certain standards, and we need to prepare this list of standards first. What claims can or cannot be made in an article? How do we deal with articles that describe collecting in areas where collecting is possibly restricted? How much of an article is opinion rather than factual (opinion isn't itself wrong, but it must be clear what is opinion and what is factual).
These are all fair points, but as other posters have mentioned articles require a lot of effort - the system is very 'clunky' and hard work. I think the risk of 'rogue posts' is very low.
Also, as Volker mentioned, it would be much preferable for people to be able simply to upload a PDF (again, via moderation / editorial process by all means), but infinitely easier, and I am sure would attract more contributions than does the current very onerous system.
Added to this we have to review for factual accuracy, for grammar, we have to have some consistency with layouts and formatting, etc.
ie, all the jobs that a normal editor of a magazine does.
OK, but again, as Woody pointed out, this is not 'Canadian Mineralogist' or Min Mag - I think that a fairly 'light touch review' is all that is required.
We could certainly do with some volunteer reviewers who would be happy to review and comment on other people's articles. This can be done as a peer-review type process where when someone writes an article, they can submit it for approval and once approved it gets published and listed on the home page. Alternatively you can skip this process and just publish without it going to the home page if you have something minor you're working on and approval/home page listing isn't important.
OK, I volunteer to become a reviewer for UK and general articles. I would not consider myself to be competent to review articles relating to overseas localities.
But before all that, we need to define the rules. This is a task I have to lead probably within the management group, but if you or anyone else has strong views on this I would be delighted to have you involved.
Great, sounds like the ideal job to do after Xmas lunch! :)
Seriously, I am more than happy to help where I can, and I am sure that many others will be also. But, let's keep it simple, not too onerous, and preferably let's migrate the article system to accept uploading of a PDF file which is far easier for a contributor to prepare. That should encourage more people to make the effort, and more contributions for site visitors to read and enjoy, and increased educational value - which is what we are about - right?
Best wishes to all
Roy
13th Dec 2018 18:42 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
I always thought that the approval process for most articles would be a very simple read through and "Yes this is ok". But `i also think there is room for a more formal peer review process for certain articles - but that would be a very small percentage of articles submitted and possibly those articles would be promoted and presented differently.
Light touch is absolutely right. A simple set of rules that can be clearly understood by reviewers to allow them to read an article and decide instantly whether the article is a 'home page' article, or not (equivalent of the 'user gallery only photos), on in extreme cases not allow it to be published at all.
So. One set of rules (the most important) would define what we would not allow in an article. Obvious things include
* Potentially libelous statements
* Offensive material (note, there may be occasions where it is important for vulgar words to be allowed, eg when quoting something that was said - so no outright ban on this.
* Commercial postings which would include obvious commercial postings and less obvious (eg trying to promote some trade name for a new mineral/rock) - If in doubt let managers decide.
* Anything promoting crystal healing or other metaphysical properties. Theses issues can be discussed if the article is fair and balanced, but articles clearly aimed at pomoting that belief system won't be acceptable.
* Copyrighted material used without permission
Then, the next set of rules are more difficult - what we decide are the rules that determine whether an article deserves promotion on the homepage. Those members who put in a lot of work to polish their articles probably deserve their articles promoted a bit differently to those who just write a couple of paragraphs, don't add any photos, and hit publish. But then again that can't be a hard and fast rule if those two paragraphs are exceptionally important.
We do not want to upset those who contribute articles, but we also need to protect our reputation and we need to try to encourage the best quality of contributions.
13th Dec 2018 18:44 UTCLarry Maltby Expert
13th Dec 2018 18:45 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
13th Dec 2018 18:47 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
Can all of you who write articles do a couple of things:
1. Go through your existing articles and select the correct category - this will help when finding them in searches. Just selecting a category and saving will NOT reset the publishing/updated date.
2. If you think there are any categories that should be added please do propose them!
Jolyon
ps Roy, yes, this now includes Book Reviews as a category!
13th Dec 2018 18:52 UTCLarry Maltby Expert
13th Dec 2018 19:01 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
13th Dec 2018 19:07 UTCTony Nikischer 🌟 Manager
I, too, would like to see recently submitted articles on the mindat.org home page as before. Re-purpose some of the space devoted to "mining companies" which adds little to informing or educating. Rather than reinvent the wheel with an onerous editing process, I believe most submitters do a decent job presenting their work to the collector community to the best of their personal ability. Management certainly reserves the right to remove any inappropriate article, but let's not create an entire bureaucracy for every submission. Mindat readers can certainly point out problems, just as they do with inappropriate posts.
Let's just preface the articles section with a general disclaimer and get submissions back on the front page!
13th Dec 2018 19:37 UTCDoug Schonewald
Cheers
Doug
13th Dec 2018 19:54 UTCRichard Gunter Expert
13th Dec 2018 20:22 UTCWoody Thompson Expert
Arbitration between these types will lead to hard feelings, as situations arise in which one author gets front page real estate and rewarded by lots of hits, while another person's reasonably good article is put in the back pages. I find well-done reports on shows, museums, and other places and events can be just as interesting as, for example, articles on crystallography (and sometimes a lot more so). Many readers don't have the time or interest to dig for "more articles" to find what they would otherwise be missing.
I support putting all articles on the home page for a short time, as before, but with a quick approval process if deemed necessary to weed out any bad ones.
13th Dec 2018 20:53 UTCRoy Starkey 🌟 Manager
Jolyon - I've duly been through and added categories to my previous articles.
It is good to see that there is vociferous support for articles and hopefully Jolyon and the management team, will soon be able to agree and publish the 'rules' and policies and we can look forward to many more interesting show reports, 'how to...' descriptions and news and announcement items.
Roy
13th Dec 2018 21:20 UTCBecky Coulson 🌟 Expert
I proofread photo captions whenever I can and have done the same for several "Best Minerals" articles.
Over time I have read many members' articles which are interesting but would truly benefit from having them proofed; if anyone would like their article proofread, I am happy to help...it helps the author but also helps the quality of Mindat content. Just an offer!
13th Dec 2018 22:29 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
However, If we do ever do a fully peer reviewed professional section on mindat then yes, that will allow PDF submissions of course.
13th Dec 2018 22:35 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
You may wonder why stuff like this is at the bottom and not the top, and the reason for this is that the top section is meant to clearly give an indication as to what mindat is and how it works to those who stumble across the site for the first time. Too many options and links to more detailed content are just confusing at this point. Once you become a regular user you'll know to scroll down to get to the things that are important.
13th Dec 2018 22:39 UTCRoy Starkey 🌟 Manager
Great to see it back on the Home page.
Cheers
Roy
14th Dec 2018 00:16 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager
Jolyon you mention above:
"Can all of you who write articles do a couple of things:
1. Go through your existing articles and select the correct category - this will help when finding them in searches. Just selecting a category and
saving will NOT reset the publishing/updated date.
2. If you think there are any categories that should be added please do propose them!"
I can see how to search but I can't see anywhere where you can categorise articles ???
Cheers
14th Dec 2018 08:02 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
14th Dec 2018 12:18 UTCLarry Maltby Expert
1. The return of article titles to the front page and the sorting by categories.
2. The addition of rock types to the data base enabling a better discussion of geology.
3. The addition of the Macrostrat geological maps to the location pages. I know that there is a disclaimer but I find the information very useful.
14th Dec 2018 15:38 UTCRichard Gunter Expert
14th Dec 2018 17:26 UTCDonald B Peck Expert
I have been doing a lot of writing for mindat this past year. When I started, I wanted to upload a Word or PDF file, and Jolyon said, "Please don't." I now appreciate why he said that. All of mindat is HTML code. Word and PDF are not, and that causes problems. It did not take long for me to figure out how the mindat editor and mark-up languages work (with some help and a big Thank you to Erin Delventhal). I really believe the advantages of using the mindat editor with the availability of the databases is superior. A writer can do things that cannot be done in a Word document, like enlarge a photo, jump to a mineral or locality page, and return to the article. And in my case, I think the ability to use the rotation models of mineral crystals added something. (Again, Thank you to Erin and Jolyon) My vote is to stay with the current system.
I missed the short list of recent articles on the front page . . .and I am happy to see its return. Thank you, Jolyon,
One suggestion. When uploading illustrations, photos or artwork, there is (as far as I know) no way to organize them. They are simply filed sequentially. That makes finding one of them in a large file difficult. Is there any way that a user defined folder system is possible? It has become very difficult to find a particular item in my "Other" photo file.
14th Dec 2018 17:37 UTCLarry Maltby Expert
14th Dec 2018 17:54 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
It's a good suggestion! My initial thoughts are the simplest way to do this is to allow you to add 'tags' to a photo (hidden from sight) so you can assign photos to any categories you wish and then those category tags would be listed in a search when you search your own gallery.
The question would be whether these categories should also be shown to other users searching your photos or whether it's only for your own use?
14th Dec 2018 17:57 UTCLarry Maltby Expert
14th Dec 2018 18:51 UTCTony Nikischer 🌟 Manager
I've put mine in the "News" category, but they deserve a category of their own, particularly for well-known individuals such as Dick Bideau, Rock Currier, Pete Dunn etc..
14th Dec 2018 19:14 UTCDonald B Peck Expert
Should others be able to see the tag? I don't know, but I put hundreds of hours into the construction of the crystallographic forms (Art) and as far as I am concerned, they are in the public domain. (quality? that is another question).
15th Dec 2018 01:21 UTCErin Delventhal Manager
15th Dec 2018 02:10 UTCDoug Daniels
15th Dec 2018 03:01 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager
You must be logged in first.
You need to go to the mindat Manual.
Under the About Mindat in the top bar, click on that button and then that should bring you to the User and Contributor Manual;
There you will see a number of features listed.
Under Mindat.org Features Click on Mindat.org Articles; where you will find some general notes an Articles.
(Or you can go here: https://www.mindat.org/a/articles)
At the end of the first block of text there is a sentence: Information for help with writing an article can be accessed in the Messageboard forum under the Mindat Articles section.
In the next para there a line that reads: Before writing your first article you should read our section on using Mindat Markup Language (which is highlighted). Click on that link and that will give you the Basics of HTML as used here in Mindat.
(or you can go here) https://www.mindat.org/a/mindat_markup
I have referred to external sources re HTML at times but only because I had a little understanding of HTML in a past life.
It is a little convoluted to get there. I would also suggest copy and paste the relevant bits and pieces from the Mindat notes to a word document to keep as a reference point to save having to keep going back and forth.
Create an article in Word first - add the HTML tags and then create a new article page in Mindat, copy and paste your document into it. Make any necessary adjustments and do a preview. If it gets screwed up at that point - ask for some help.
I would always keep a copy of your article in a word doc so you don't lose it when creating your article and if something goes wrong (including the server 'freezing" etc).
Those little buttons at the top of every message that you create in Mindat are also HTML formats that can be used in your messaging - you probably just haven't used them.
As Erin said - if you need help once you get started, you only need to ask.
I know that Don was a bit concerned when he first started with his articles but now look at him go. Don has produced some of the best here on Mindat.
15th Dec 2018 03:28 UTCDonald B Peck Expert
Write a throw away article and add the features to it. Experiment. You don't have to upload it nor keep it on your list of articles . . .there is a delete button on your article page.
Keith, thank you for the kind words!
15th Dec 2018 04:12 UTCDoug Daniels
15th Dec 2018 11:24 UTCLarry Maltby Expert
“Write a throw away article and add the features to it. Experiment. You don't have to upload it nor keep it on your list of articles . . .there is a delete button on your article page.”
That is exactly what I did when I started writing Mindat articles except I didn’t delete it. My first article was titled “Learning Code”. I used it to experiment. I tried all of the code that Keith mentioned especially that given in the middle of the “Article Edit Page” at the link in blue “Click here to learn more (new window)”. I tried everything, learning how to paste text written in word into the code and how it looks in the article. Also, how to position and size photos and how to fit 2, 3 and 4 photos across a page. Of course, I did not publish this article. It just sits on “my page, articles under construction” and on occasion, I use it for reference.
The bottom line is that I have come up with a format that I like and I have about eight lines of code on a word document stored on my computer that I copy and paste to write articles. When I stated I was terrified but now it seems like “old hat”. I think that Mindat has a brilliant method that allows many diverse members to upload articles.
We also need to thank Don for his tremendous contribution to Mindat regarding his articles on crystallography. The illustrations are superb!
15th Dec 2018 13:07 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
15th Dec 2018 16:48 UTCDonald B Peck Expert
I produced the crystal form figures in Microsoft Publisher, another program that has a learning curve. I did not want to get into a copyright problem and I wasn't successful in finding what I wanted in the public domain. Al Ostrander had worked out the mathematics of the projection and I was able to use it to build the figures. They are all done with the standard, adjustable, geometrics that MS supplies. I am going to go back and edit a few of them to improve the shading.
15th Dec 2018 17:49 UTCLarry Maltby Expert
quote box, float left – photo, float right
photo, float left – quote box, float right
quote box, float left – quote box, float right
Leave out the lines for the quote boxes. This would provide complete control of word wrapped dialog to the right or left of a photo. It would also facilitate writing in columns.
15th Dec 2018 19:06 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
15th Dec 2018 21:04 UTCAntoine Barthélemy Expert
18th Dec 2018 13:05 UTCNiels Brouwer
Also, on the article overview page (articlelist.php) there's a small misspelling: Catgeory.
Mindat.org is an outreach project of the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy, a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization.
Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2024, except where stated. Most political location boundaries are © OpenStreetMap contributors. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters. Founded in 2000 by Jolyon Ralph.
Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us / DMCA issues - Report a bug/vulnerability Current server date and time: May 9, 2024 22:12:33
Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2024, except where stated. Most political location boundaries are © OpenStreetMap contributors. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters. Founded in 2000 by Jolyon Ralph.
Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us / DMCA issues - Report a bug/vulnerability Current server date and time: May 9, 2024 22:12:33