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GeneralCollected a clunker. What should I do?

17th Jan 2009 22:53 UTCJason B. Smith Expert

Got a rare chance today to do some collecting in the old pit at the Foote Mine with permission from FMC. For the first time since 1991 a vehicle was once again down in the old quarry.

I am a micromineral collector of course. Today I got on a seam that was producing apatite, rhodochrosite, and fairfieldite. It was pretty cold today (about 14F when we started collecting) and so by the late afternoon I was ready to go strip off several layers of clothing. I was trimming up everything and most of what I was keeping would be traders at best, nothing I didnt already have. The last piece however, was a winner. Struck it with the crack hammer and a 2" cavity opened up revealing perfect fairfieldite clusters to about 1cm on apatite. Now being that I am of the micromineral persuasion I am up in the air on what to do with this guy. Trimming it much further would be dangerous at best. These thin fairfieldites are very fragile but in this state it is a clunker. It is much to big for me to add to my catalouged collection but definetly the best fairfieldite I have ever personally collected. What should I do with it? I am confused.

17th Jan 2009 23:18 UTCChris Stefano Expert

personally, I'd trim it with a band saw.

17th Jan 2009 23:24 UTCDana Slaughter 🌟 Expert

Hi Jason,

You lucky dog!! Trim it down a bit and send it over to me. Kidding aside, what a great find!!!! Certainly you might be able to trade it for a boat load of choice micros, but I would keep the brute. Actually, I would probably sell it as I no longer collect for myself. It is tough to sell choice self-collected pieces but it does the heart good to see good rocks go to good people. I'll just have to add the Foote mine to my list of SE collecting spots that I'd love to visit. Top of the list is Graves Mountain but I'm sure that I could work a few locations into a possible vacation someday! Great job on the find...I've read your posts about the locality and know that it must take more than just luck to consistently find choice specimens. Well done!!

Dana

Queen Creek, AZ

18th Jan 2009 00:14 UTCAdam Kelly

Rhodochrosite from the Foote Mine? Traders at best!

I know this should be under the trade thread, but what would you want for a little Rhodo?

Adam K

18th Jan 2009 01:11 UTCJason B. Smith Expert

Ha! Thanks for the comments guys. I guess my question is more of a philosophical one. It is always interesting when you collect these sorts of things. I was immediately excited of course but then I thought, well, what the hell am I gonna do with this thing? Plus, I have umpteen fairfieldites from here anyways. I could saw trim it but that always looks awful but selling it like this would probably not be productive. I already have too many paper weights at work....... Can you see my problem! Haha. I am sure many of you have collected something like this too. Feel free to share.

Adam, contact me through PM. They are micros but I have a few.

18th Jan 2009 01:32 UTCGreg Slak Expert

Jason...

I have had good luck with some similar trimming problems by filling the area around the fragile crystals with clear nail polish before trimming. Once the trimming is done it can be readily removed by soaking in acetone. Of course, this assumes that the minerals in question are not soluble in acetone. The same can be done with wax and hot water if the minerals are not very heat sensitive. My fear of course is that one of these days I'll dissolve my primary mineral. May be worth a try.... especially if it may become a discard anyway.

greg slak

18th Jan 2009 02:03 UTCAndrew Kruegel

It's not that big! Personally I think it's a great specimen as is and still displays nicely even though its only a small mineralized area. I have no problem with such specimens with lots of matrix if the crystallization is nice. -Andrew

18th Jan 2009 02:31 UTCJason B. Smith Expert

Well it is definetly a clunker from a micromounters point of view!

18th Jan 2009 02:37 UTCStephen Rose Expert

Jason,

There is no reason to be confused.

This specimen is clearly an over-sized, mature breeder. Under current Federal Statute related to Collecting and Preservation of Species, Section (A) Mineral, Subsection (1) Foote, this rock must be returned to the wild.

Do your duty.

Steve

18th Jan 2009 03:36 UTCJason B. Smith Expert

Yes Stephen! I thought of that. But I thought better of it because I was hoping on starting a breeding program since the quarry is actually an endangered environment. :P

I have actually used clear gelatin to fill cavities before and then washed it out later with hot water after trimming. Acetone is detrimental to most phosphates.

18th Jan 2009 05:04 UTCStephen Rose Expert

Jason,

Not a bad Idea. The gelatin, that is. Petroleum jelly works well if things are ok with warm water followed by other solvents.

You really are fortunate in that if you had collected this in another part of the country the discovery might have been categorized under an entirely different set of law, the Bigfoote Statutes, and you could well have been tied up in bureaucratic red tape for years. >:D<

Cheers,

Steve

18th Jan 2009 14:09 UTCAnonymous User

Keep it. Field collectors should not have severe size limitations for personally collected material! You never know what you will find and what size it will be. The only specimen that was too big for me was a ~60 x 20 x 30 cm one that was just too heavy and large for any kind of storage at home.

If you absolutely do not want to keep it, a. give it to a museum who wants it b. trade it

Philippe.

18th Jan 2009 20:18 UTCJason B. Smith Expert

Thanks Phillipe but I have to impose size restrictions on myself. My collection is getting up near 7000 specimens so if I started collecting bigger pieces now, I would be out of room by tuesday. I only really collect microminerals but I do have matrix sizes up to 7cm or so. As long as the specimen will fit in a box, I will generally keep it if I am too nervous to trim it further. If they make a box for this specimen it would look pretty darn goofy inside it.

18th Jan 2009 20:23 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

I accept mineral donations in cases such as this :)

Jolyon

18th Jan 2009 21:38 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

I agree with Phillipe, a museum would appreciate this without having to worry about unnecessary matrix removal.

Jolyon

18th Jan 2009 22:34 UTCJustin Zzyzx Expert

Jason...

I only came here to say...

"It's ON Like SIMON LaBON! WHOOO"

Nice specimen!

18th Jan 2009 22:40 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Jason,

If you are coming to Tucson, bring it along - I keep a 6 ton hydraulic rock splitter in storage out there. We can trim it for sure with a good degree of accuracy if you are so inclined.

Chet

19th Jan 2009 03:49 UTCJason B. Smith Expert

Hi Chet! Thanks for the offer but I will not be in Tucson.

I have a good sized trimmer. I have decided to trim it and the gelatin is setting in the fridge now. Wish me luck!\

And Justin, ROTFLMFAO!!

19th Jan 2009 08:57 UTCRay Hill Expert

Good Luck with the Trim, Jason.

Please post the AFTER, since we have all seen the BEFORE now.

19th Jan 2009 09:10 UTCEddy Vervloet Manager

Good luck!

Hopefully this will not have to be moved to the 'How often have you trimmed too far' thread! :D

20th Jan 2009 01:58 UTCJason B. Smith Expert

Ok guys. I filled the cavity with gelatin last night (which is the first time I have ever used this technique on a larger piece and it worked wonderfully!) let it sit in the fridge overnight. I took it over to a friends house (thanks Jim!) to use his large rock saw. Several big cuts and cut/trims later and this is the end result. The cuts just look awful to me and the specimen is still larger than I like.

And the micromounter in me just will not die. Down in the vug are several very nice custers and single xls of fairfieldite that need to be freed! The only one you can really see with it like it is is the largest one. One easy trim should split the vug in half producing two nice specimens with many visible xx.

So here is the deal. I am putting this up to a vote. Silly I know but whatever, it was collected so there is no risk for me. 10 votes, yea or nay on trimming it further. Majority rules. Simply state "trim it" or "dont trim it". I value my comrades' opinions.

20th Jan 2009 15:33 UTCAnonymous User

Don't trim it. It's a cracker just the way it is.

Craig.

20th Jan 2009 15:43 UTCAnonymous User

Looks too risky for further trimming, IMHO.

Philippe.

20th Jan 2009 15:49 UTCjim potterf

Carve a wood base for it that hides all the cut parts. And mount an LED into it. Lined up right in the back where the vug opened. That specimen with a sml. back light might be outstanding.

He forgot to tell you the last trim he got right to the back of the vug. Some reflected light will shine into the vug from the back.

Also there are more sml xls showing in back.

Don't split it as it is a fine example of the total vug. Split it and you will loose that prospective totaly.

Jim

Edit; Jason... Direct a back light into it and send us another photo.

20th Jan 2009 16:38 UTCWoody Thompson Expert

Don't trim further! (td) It's wonderful as-is, and additional trimming would be risky.

Woody Thompson

22nd Jan 2009 13:17 UTCBill Gordon

Don't trim

22nd Jan 2009 14:08 UTCGordon Derry

Don't trim,

I am a nervous enough person as it is without this extra worry hanging over me!

Gordon

22nd Jan 2009 16:20 UTCJason B. Smith Expert

OK, the nays have it. Looks like this one will find a new home!

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