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Identity HelpPoudrette Ancylite?

3rd Nov 2009 02:16 UTCBryan Manke

I am pretty sure this spray is ancylite-ce from Poudrette, but by no means an expert in MSH minerals. Can you provide suggestions or visual confirmation? Almost a salmon-pinkish color and appears orthorhombic. This is the best pic I could get with the equipment I have.

3rd Nov 2009 18:53 UTCRonald John Gyllenhammer Expert

Hi Bryan,

I think you are on the right track and you may be right. If you can, you should check for fluorescence, Ancylite_(Ce) is a sort of pale grayish green under fluorescent light and Calcioancylite-(Ce) is listed as usually more of a blue gray under both SW and LW. I think maybe it's the calcium analogue of Ancylite-(Ce), Calcioancylite-(Ce). Good luck Bryan.

Ron

3rd Nov 2009 19:38 UTCBill Lechner Expert

Bryan,

It looks a lot like Ancylite, but I've seen Serandite which looks like this also. Check it out using incandescent lighting - it should look pink whether it's Ancylite or Serandite. Then, check it with fluorescent lighting - if it's Serandite there will be very little if any change. If it appears gray under fluorescent light, then it's Ancylite. I was quite surprised when I first observed this effect.

Bill

3rd Nov 2009 20:30 UTCModris Baum 🌟 Expert

If you are going to make a habit of collecting MSH you might consider investing in a gemoligical spectroscope. (I found mine online for about $50). They are pretty easy to use: Focus your subject (use as bright a light as you can get), take out the eyepiece and just put the spectroscope near the eyepiece. I think there is an optimum position but it doesn't seem to matter too much. (But it's important to adjust the slit to the proper width - trial and error.)

If your mineral has REE (in particular Nd which usually accompanies Ce), you will see a rainbow spectrum with some black absorption lines. By itself this doesn't prove you have ancylite but it will certainly distinguish it from serandite etc.

I learned this from Laszlo Horvath and have found it truly invaluable as a MSH collector.

If you don't want to spend $50 you might be able to construct your own spectroscope with a bit of diffraction grating (from Edmunds Scientific or such) and a couple of razor blades for the slit.

3rd Nov 2009 21:04 UTCBryan Manke

All thanks for the input. Bottom line is I need to get a UV lamp, I've put it off for too long.

Modris, interesting concept. I'm not an MSH collector per se, but got some nice samples at a give away table. It can be pretty frustrating ID'ing some of the crystals with 100% accuracy. I will look online for the spectroscope. I have a spectrometer for my education classes, but I don't think that's going to cut it.

4th Nov 2009 00:46 UTCSteve Stuart Expert

Bryan,

You don't need a UV light, just a fluorescent light, to see how ancylite changes its appearance from incandescent lighting. I have a white-light LED lamp that also makes ancylite appear grey rather than pink.

But, UV lighting opens up a whole new mineralogical world! So, I wouldn't discourage you from getting one. I have LW, MW and SW combined in one unit, so it's easy to compare responses under the various wavelengths.

Steve

4th Nov 2009 02:24 UTCBryan Manke

Steve, sorry about the UV/fluorescent mix up. I just know a UV lamp will help me out with many New England mineral IDs.

I used an LED light I happen to have and the crystals appear colorless (the mass of crystals however could be interpreted as grey) at the same angle in the pic I posted. Thanks for the help and advice. I'm pretty confident of ancylite.

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