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Improving Mindat.orgKarlovy Vary and Carlsbad orthoclase twins

15th Jun 2010 07:47 UTCJakub Jirásek Expert

Hi,

I just added locality Loket in Karlovy Vary Region, which is probably type locality of Carlsbad orthoclase twins. There are no such things in the Karlovy Vary town. It was described like that because the original locality was kept in secret and all spa guests including famous mineralogists were wisiting local spa.

Could you please move pictures of orthoclase from Karlovy Vary to Loket? Thanks.

Jakub

15th Jun 2010 17:24 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

You can do this yourself by editing your photo and picking the right locality. (you need to be logged on)

19th Jun 2010 17:55 UTCJakub Jirásek Expert

Problem is they are NOT my photos.

19th Jun 2010 18:23 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

OK Jakub. I could just change the locality, but the owners should be aware of this so I will "complain".

Messages sent.

These Carlsbad twins must be from the 19th Century or earlier. You are sure they all came from Loket? It is unlikely that they came from a town site but it seems surprising that this was kept secret for over a hundred years.

19th Jun 2010 21:34 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

One of the owners has replied:

"Probably better wait for a while. As you say:

"These Carlsbad twins must be from the 19th Century or earlier. You are sure they all came from Loket? It is unlikely that they came from a town site but it seems surprising that this was kept secret for over a hundred years."

These Orthoclases are well known for centuries, all world museums has these specimens labeled as from Karlovy Vary, so discover now, after over hundred years, that a so famous locality is wrong and that no one discovered it before is quite suspicious.

Please keep me informed, if some other reliable collector/dealer from Czech Republic agree I will change the locality immediately in my specimen, but on the meantime I prefer wait a little bit.

Also, I will ask it to Ivo (Karp) in Ste. Marie Show. He is from Czech Republic and extremely reliable, please let me check it with him."

I agree with him.

20th Jun 2010 09:12 UTCJesse Fisher Expert

I have posted a photo of the original dealer label (Julius Bohm, circa 1885) which simply gives the location of the specimen as "Carlsbad." According to Mindat the modern name for the location is "Karlovy Vary," so that is where I posted the photo. If anyone familiar with this occurence has more accurate information, please feel free to update or move the photos.

20th Jun 2010 20:28 UTCAleš Tomek Expert

The most known orthoclase sites (coming from Carlsbad massive porhpyric granite) are on the fields between Loket and village Hory (eg Pauliš P. 2000), that is located just 5km from the city limits of Karlovy Vary (Carlsbad). The historical town center of Carlsbad is app. 5 more km distant. So, the more precise can be the name Loket, but the adjective carlsbad can be derived from the geological perspective from the carlsbad massive name and from the historical perspective becuase they were known from here first. If someone knows precisely (as Jakub) that his specimen come from between Loket and Hory than he can put them under this sites name and someone knows only Carlsbad as provenience lets leave it ... anyway the massive with orthoclase crystals stretches even to german side of the border (eg up to Eiebenstock in Saxony) ...and who knows where exactly they were collected in the 19th century...

20th Jun 2010 20:43 UTCAleš Tomek Expert

I have just found citation (Hochstetter, Karlsbad 1856, 30, 69 in Kratochvíl - Topografiká mineralogie Čech, 1964, part VII) that notable orthoclase crystals were also found just inside the historical town center of Carlsbad (hill Jelení skok - Deer spring) overlooking the promenade and thermal springs area. So, at least some historical dealers could have sold the real and 100% original carlsbad twins...

29th Jun 2010 20:52 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

Confirming what Aleš has said one of the posters has replied:

"I had a talk with Ivo in Ste. Marie. He and his partners explained to me that Loket is just 4-5 km, far to Karlovy Vary and that the deposit of Orthoclase is more or less between Loket and Karlovy Vary, so for they, it don't make sense change the historic name of Karlovy Vary for Loket.

As I trust Ivo & partners, I will keep Karlovy Vary as a classic name for my Orthoclase."

Since these are found over a large region, we should let individual collectors post where they have found them.

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