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Identity HelpHALLS GAP, KENTUCKY millerite, fake?

10th Aug 2010 22:43 UTCAlbert Mura

A search of Halls Gap, KY millerite on ebay reveals a number of specimens which appear to be fakes to me. I have never seen any Halls Gap millerites in quarts geodes like the ones shown. An comments?

10th Aug 2010 22:50 UTCAlbert Mura

Sorry forgot the ebay address.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Millerite-Halls-Gap-Kentucky-/270582490291?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0#ht_4509wt_913

10th Aug 2010 23:06 UTCBarry Flannery Expert

Looks quite dubious. I don't see how you could crack the geode and have the spray intact like the one shown. I could be wrong but I would definitely wait for a local collector's opinion before bidding.

10th Aug 2010 23:18 UTCMark Gottlieb

Does not look like anything from Hall Gap to me. Maybe Michigan? Plain quartz geodes like the the one in the picture, minus the millerite can be found in several KY locations.

11th Aug 2010 01:40 UTCJake Harper Expert

I do recall reading a MR article about Halls Gap and seeing specimen photographs very similar to the ones depicted by the ebay dealer. It was stated that when the geodes were cracked, that the highly flexible millerite and jamborite sprays would spring up out of the geodes. Let's go to Halls Gap everyone!

Jake

11th Aug 2010 01:56 UTCScott Sadlocha

I am not very familiar with Halls Gap, so I would have to look up documentation on it, maybe look through my issues of MR, but I can say that I have seen millerite like that before. That looks very similar to milllerite I have found at Wallace Stone Quarry, here in Michigan (Huron County to be exact). When cracking open the specimen, millerite on one half of it can "pull" millerite out of the other half, where it then springs back a bit upon release and lays like that. Or, it can be very loose and just pull out a bit.

I have never dealt with that dealer before, but I have had a couple people tell me that the person is reliable.

11th Aug 2010 02:49 UTCKelly Nash 🌟 Expert

Halls Gap millerite is found in small quartz geodes (Min. Rec. vol. 1 no. 3, p. 109). I have seen several specimens similar to that.

11th Aug 2010 03:23 UTCChris Stefano Expert

No way that is from Michigan. It looks perfectly reasonable to me. What exactly is the objection to that specimen?

11th Aug 2010 03:28 UTCIbrahim Jameel Expert

It doesn't look fake to me... I've seen quite a few similar ones.

I think the reason it looks unusual is because it's actually a decent piece... most of the Halls Gap millerites I've seen are kind of pitiful with just a few strands of millerite here and there.

11th Aug 2010 03:37 UTCScott Sadlocha

Chris,

I wasn't saying that it was from Michigan, just similar to what I have found, in that the millerite can pull out of the piece and lay on it like that. I have a few pieces similar to that, in that regard. Most of the millerite I have is on calcite, calcite with quartz, and massive quartz, but I have one or two small pieces with millerite on crystallized quartz, though much smaller than this piece, and not as rich.

11th Aug 2010 05:46 UTCIbrahim Jameel Expert

How about this one? ahahahaha

According to chinadaily.com its some sort of fossil.... whatever it is it looks ridiculous.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/photo/2007-04/30/xin_140404301135456456425.jpg

11th Aug 2010 08:37 UTCRock Currier Expert

Has anyone seen a halls gap quartz geode without millerite in it?

11th Aug 2010 09:43 UTCAksel Österlöf Expert

Hello there

Got a few inputs- there is a newer article in MR:

"Famous Mineral Localities: Halls Gap, Lincoln County, Kentucky (by Alan Goldstein) 28: 369-384"

and YES Rock, I have seen Halls Gap geodes WITHOUT millerite- got one just with smoky qz and one with calcite& chalcedony (for instance)..

What I do think are facts against that the ebay thing should be correct;

1- geode wall thickness- (in comparison to MR pics, mindat pics and my specimens)

2- there is a reddish part in all walls (feldspar? reaction zone) which are lacking in the ebay pic.

3- it lacks chalcedony which to me is included in all others

plus some other minor differences- one thing is obvious its more millerite in this one than in the other pics.

Best regards

Aksel

11th Aug 2010 10:00 UTCRock Currier Expert

Askel, I think your observation about wall thickness is valid. One wonders where they would get the millerite to stuff in the geodes? I wonder if it is indeed millerite. Niel Pfaff spent several weeks camped out by the Miller gap collecting those geodes and had several hundred as I recall, but I don't think I ever saw any quite like those pictured on mindat. He is the real expert on that place and it would be interesting to see what he would say about them.

11th Aug 2010 14:31 UTCAlbert Mura

Is it really millerite...good question Rock. The only thing I can say with any confidence is that the geodes are different from any I have seen from there; I have ca. 50 Halls GAP geodes. Al

0

11th Aug 2010 17:03 UTCEverett Harrington Expert

Hi Gang,

Several things, first off this geode looks like it could be from Hall's Gap.Some of the geodes are quartz with millerites. It is unusual to see that thick of a rind on it however. I've been there 4 times, without being able to see the shell of the geode it would be hard to say. All of the millerite geodes from Hall's are found in a greenish colored shale/limestone, so the shell would be close to the same color. At this time there is only a very small area that still shows the correct formation to hunt the millerites at Hall's, and the matrix is brutal!!! Alan Goldstein would be the best guy to look at this and tell if it is in fact from Hall's as he wrote the MR article :)

KOR

E

11th Aug 2010 17:21 UTCEverett Harrington Expert

And Rock, Yes, I have a flat full of them here.......plain quartz geodes from Hall's

12th Aug 2010 01:12 UTCAlan Goldstein Expert

The geode looks like it is from Harrodsburg, Monroe Co., Indiana area (Hwy 37). The tan color of the outside of the geode, rind thickness and quartz xl size is typical. Millerite does occur at location with some decent sprays. If that is the case, it is definitely priced right because geodes rarely have that much millerite. (I have seen specimens in other collections, but have not collected such a rich specimen there myself.) Then again, it could be cat hair stuffed into a geode...

12th Aug 2010 16:54 UTCsteven garza

Hi all;

Alan is right, but, I'm thinking of another location, for that type geode - Ollie, IA. They come in the same type rock, which is normally tan colored; Harrodsburg stuff tends topwards a grayer color. Also, the millerite from that locale is thick mats to nearly filling the geode sprays, just as pictured, &, occur in thick-skinned quartz geodes; Harrodsburgs are like the pictured geode, however, the sprays are usually, dividual & not as densely populated, xl-wise.

As a side note, another layer at Ollie has geodes that are predominately chalcedony filled, with millerite, also.

Your friend, Steve

13th Aug 2010 09:41 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

I don't think this is Hall's Gap and I think it is real. I had a similar one from Hoopston, Vermillion Co. Il. There may well be other localities for this sort of geode.

13th Aug 2010 17:46 UTCLogan Babcock (2)

listen, that is millerite from halls gap. just looked at my specimens and they look exactly like that! its simply amazing how fake these things look but its real!!! since it has such a beautiful amount of hairs, its worth it. just get it!!!

from Logan

13th Aug 2010 19:08 UTCStephen Rose Expert

I think it is real but don't know if it is from Hall's Gap.

I have never collected at Hall's Gap but in the '60's I collected extensively at the Harrodsburg road cut and around the Monroe County Dam at the nearby reservoir. The geodes from the Rt. 37 road cut do tend to be more grey as they are often in fresh limestone. The best specimens I found there were in nearly solid larger geodes with smallish central cavities lined with fresh quartz and no chalcedony. Millerite, altered greenish, was in discrete, radiating sprays; in one the base of the spray was encased in a clear calcite. The Harvard specimen from this locality as I recall appears to be more of the "matted" or "clumped" variety.

At the dam, then under construction, there were many exposures of the Lower Harrodsburg Limestone that were productive but millerite was rare. The best specimen I found there was in a very thin shelled geode of about 20 cm in diameter with a single, unaltered, very fine (meaning thin) millerite from wall-to-wall, maybe 10 cm long.

I have a complete geode from Hoopston, Illinois, that has abundant, brassy matted millerite sprays and a single sphalerite crystal. The overall appearance of the geode is not like the one pictured on ebay.

I agree with Rob; there can be lots of variations in geode appearance and mineralization style even within a relatively restricted area.

Steve

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