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Techniques for CollectorsAlbatross cleaning gun problem

16th Jun 2014 08:28 UTCBob Jackson Expert

Has anyone else had problems with newer Albatross/Expert fabric guns? My last one worked for 4 years of fairly heavy use, often running 4 hours/day, using distilled water. That was a model 300 Expert, about $200. I recently purchased a new one, model 500, a higher pressure, all stainless parts gun, about $400. It failed after a week of use. Returned to the manufacturer, who states that their guns are not made to use water, as water viscosity is too high. Swapped for a new model 300, which shortly had same problem.

American Niagara guns were once the best, but they went to offshore mfg years ago, and became the design for the knock-offs. I gave up on the cheap made-in-China cleaning guns. A third of those don't work right out of the box, another third last a few months, once in a while a lucky one will last a year. Cost is not the issue, I just hate supporting shoddy workmanship. Anyone bought a well-made gun lately?

16th Jun 2014 13:33 UTCMichel Ambroise

I think, unfortunatly for American brand or European brand, everybody switch for a Chinese made.....at 25 euros or dollars...

With the german brand Wagner, who cost more than 220 euros, i got problems, it's not better than the one from China.

So it's easy to calculate....400 dollars investment for 4 years, 100 a year, for that price you can get 4 of the chinese sometime 5....

Even, if they brake down after a couple of month, i bring it back to the dealer and they give me an other new one....because of the guarantee..

Nobody can rely on those from America or europe, an nobody can said if they are really American or European made.

best

Michel

16th Jun 2014 17:16 UTCDoug Daniels

If the guns aren't meant to use water, what are you supposed to use?

16th Jun 2014 19:23 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

You could try alcohol or some other hydrocarbon based fluid which is low viscosity. I have one of those cheap Chinese guns with which I have had no trouble using water with a touch of dish detergent but I run WD40 through it before storing it to prevent corrosion.

17th Jun 2014 03:40 UTCDoug Daniels

Let's see...a low-viscosity hydrocarbon based fluid....likely to be flammable. Put it through the gun, and when it hits the specimen it creates a mist, which you can then breathe (unless you are wearing a mask with a volatile organics filter), and, if you are really lucky, have the mist hit an ignition source.... OK, maybe unlikely, but, needs to be considered.

Even if it isn't flammable, such compounds are still very unhealthy to breathe as a mist.

17th Jun 2014 05:25 UTCBob Jackson Expert

Doug, Albatross is a dry cleaning company, so yes, the guns are intended to use solvents. Though their older models worked fine with water, the new ones do not. I used isopropyl alcohol today, worked well, but too expensive (to say nothing of dangerous) for frequent use. So still looking for an alternative to the cheap chinese crap.

Michel, I agree, the economics point to going with the cheap guns and throwing many away. Short of manufacturing my own, may have to go that way.

Reiner, doesn't your gun retain an odor of WD40?

Thanks, Bob

17th Jun 2014 05:51 UTCDoug Daniels

And I repeat the dangers inherent with such solvents....which many do not appreciate.

17th Jun 2014 14:39 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

Hello Bob,

The WD40 gets washed out quickly when I start using water again, odor is not a problem. There are non-flammable organic solvents available but they are toxic and expensive, I would never use them. The only thing I would consider is isopropyl alcohol for water soluble minerals. Methanol is much cheaper but may not be compatible with the components in the gun. Also there is the concern of explosions, the electric motor in the gun may not be explosion proof but I don't know, one would have to look into what type of motor is used in the gun.

17th Jun 2014 15:24 UTCBob Harman

I'll just add my two cents worth here. I bought an inexpensive (cheap just doesn't sound great!) Chinese gun several years ago and, for me, this has been fine. When I bought it I was told to buy a few extra springs as they seemed to be the first to break. Each time I use it, I also add 2 - 3 drops of lubricating oil to the tiny hole on top marked for "oil". It continues to work well these several years later, but I don't use it all that much……perhaps 30 minutes/month. I use a non-scientific 3 to 1 mixture of tap water and isopropyl alcohol. Reduced viscosity over plain water and reduced costs over just alcohol and good deep cleaning ability. I buy the alcohol by the liter (or 1/2 gallon) when on special so it never is a big expense . CHEERS……BOB

17th Jun 2014 18:24 UTCEugene & Sharon Cisneros Expert

For cleaning commercial quantities of specimens, I use a Craftsman 4 HP gas powered pressure washer. The wand that comes with it has 4 different nozzles, allowing the volume to be adjusted and pressures up to 2200psi. Needless to say, heavy rubber gloves and goggles are required for safety. It's overkill for small specimens, but I'm thinking about a small hand piece to use with it for that application.

Gene

18th Jun 2014 10:35 UTCRock Currier Expert

I have been through the mill with various kinds of fabric guns. Eventually I found I could buy them in China for about $15 each in quantity and I bought about 100 of them with extra springs. Some of them broke down and we stopped selling them because we din't want to be turned into a fabric gun fix it shop. We offered full refunds and refused to sell more. They certainly were not Underwriter tested. Some of my friends begged them off of me and to some I just gave them one and told them not to come crying to me when they stopped working. Some would not work out of the box. Others stopped working because the spring broke or that they got plugged up with a tiny rock fragment blocking the small tube to the nozzle. We also learned that emptying the guns of water after using them and lubricating them as per the instructions also made their half life much longer. I suspect that if someone would make a good beryllium bronze spring for these guns, their life would be extended ten fold. Water seems to eat up the springs after a while. For a while we would just grab a new one out of the box when one stopped working and continue cleaning. After a while we had twenty or thirty non working ones in a box. Eventually when we ran out of new ones, one our our guys went to work on them and learned how to fix them which is not rocket science compared to building a carburetor for instance. Now most of them seem to be working well and we well probably not have to buy any new ones for a while.

18th Jun 2014 14:14 UTCJohn Cornish

Hi Bob and All,

Boy, can I sympathize! Likely, I'm the supplier of Bob's purchased Chinese knock-off gun and his experience matches 100% my own and the experiences of many of my customers. Like Bob, I had used the A.N. guns for years. It was a true work-horse and was an excellent product. My cleaning periods routinely were up to 8-hours in duration and continuous. The A.N. guns worked exceptionally well in these type of brutal conditions. And then one day, my gun broke. No problem, I sent it back to the factory for rebuilding and some weeks later was shocked to see a $350.00 bill accompany the gun when it was returned.

Sadly, the rebuild wasn't long-lasting and soon the gun was down again. Not wanting to be raped by the factory again, I opted out and went over to the Chinese guns figuring I could buy 5 of the units for the cost of another repair. Thus began my stint selling the Chinese guns. These guns are great, when they work! Often, as mentioned previously in this thread, the guns fail right out of the box or soon after. Some work fine. My best gun lasted 3 years. My worst, less than a week. Broken springs are often the culprit but just as often, the gun flat fails and is inoperable. When this happens, I ship the customer another gun, if they contact me in a timely fashion.

So, long story short, the Chinese guns keep me going and 100%, I do not sell the guns with any promises of their superior craftsmanship. They do work great when they work and even have more pressure than the A. N. guns. As mentioned by Gene, I have a large size pressure washer too, this I find to be too over-kill as the higher pressure is often in excess of what's needed and can damage specimens.

I wish I knew the "secret" here and could share it with all of you, instead, I'll keep throwing money at the Chinese guns, at this point, there doesn't seem to be too many other options. Good luck out there and if you should find the "perfect solution", like many others, I'd be very interested in learning of your experiences.

Thank you for your time and consideration, all the very best,

John

18th Jun 2014 18:02 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

Some one must have thought you crossed the no advert policy line with the phrase,"I'm the supplier...". Usually when this happens there's a posting at management either alerting us to the post or saying why it was hidden. There's no such post this AM and I hope I'm not starting a fight by putting it back. We are quite serious about a no advert policy, but it doesn't look to me that that was your intention.

18th Jun 2014 20:02 UTCDoug Daniels

Just for kicks...when I first saw the title of this thread, I asked myself, "why are we talking about cleaning guns to hunt albatrosses? We aren't with the NRA or fishermen." .......

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