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Identity HelpVanadinite

31st Aug 2017 17:49 UTCMike Ash

Hello,

I need a little assistance on a vanadinite specimen and another that seems mislabeled as vanadinite. One of these is from the Apache Mine, Gila Co, Arizona.

The first set of images, I'm 100% certain are vanadinite. The red-orange crystals are clearly hexagonal with many at least 1mm in size. I'm not sure of the matrix.

The second specimen that was tagged as V from the Apache Mine is more purple in color and I'm unable to see a clear crystal structure with naked eye or with a Supereye camera. In the black/gray matrix, several clear or white tabular crystals are 4mm-5mm long. The matrix also has some other red mineral associated that seems like iron/rust.

Any help is appreciated.

31st Aug 2017 17:53 UTCMike Ash

Additional images for specimen 2. Thank you.

31st Aug 2017 22:10 UTCEd Clopton 🌟 Expert

It's hard to say from a photo, but I don't see anything in the last three photos that I recognize as crystals of vanadinite, but I suppose it might be present in some form. Maybe that piece of matrix once held crystals that fell off or were trimmed off but the label somehow stayed with it.

31st Aug 2017 23:41 UTCMike Ash

Thanks, Ed. I agree its not vanadinite. Below are some better pictures in different light. Any speculation on the red crystal minerals? Would like to be sure its not cinnabar or anything toxic. I'm pretty sure this specimen was found in either California or Arizona.

1st Sep 2017 01:03 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

In this light it looks like quartz crystals that are coated\stained with a reddish coating.

1st Sep 2017 03:38 UTCGregg Little 🌟

Photo #20 appears to possibly have a breccia matrix making an iron-stained quartz (gauge minerals) likely. Also cinnabar is relatively stable as far as toxicity goes. The usual caveats apply; don't lick, inhale dust, heat, breath fumes, etc. Check out the health risks for cinnabar on our mineral reference page.

1st Sep 2017 04:46 UTCMike Ash

Thank you, Greg. The specimen is brittle and that made getting a streak challenging. Other parts had a relatively low hardness e.g., can scratch the matrix (4-6?) but not so much on the larger crystals.

1st Sep 2017 08:35 UTCGregg Little 🌟

Hi Mike;

I am not sure what you are getting a streak from as it has to limited to single minerals. The matrix could and probably contains more than one mineral so the streak is a composite of colours and not really diagnostic. Also matrix can be brittle or crumbly or very hard, it just depends on the genesis from the type and number of minerals involved. For that reason hardness is not definitive either. The only way is to use magnification and attempt to identify individual minerals, otherwise just label it as matrix.

If the larger crystals are quartz then hardness will be over 6, as long as the "scratch" is not confused with removal of the apparent coating material. If you review some literature on the Apache deposit there will probably be descriptions of the ore body's gauge minerals and host rock. That would be much easier than agonizing over identifying the matrix mineral make-up.

1st Sep 2017 15:57 UTCMike Ash

Agreed. Thanks.

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