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GeneralMicroscope for mineral study

17th Nov 2017 22:28 UTCJohn Collins

Hi All,

Sometime ago (maybe about a year ago), there was mention in an article at this site about a new microscope for mineral study that was soon to be made available for purchase by mindat members.

Since that time, I have seen nothing about this instrument. Was I dreaming this or have I missed something?

Thanks,

John

18th Nov 2017 09:33 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

It is coming. There was a prototype shown at the Denver show. It is more or less a field scope with a battery powered lamp.

Microscope

18th Nov 2017 12:43 UTCJohn Collins

Thanks David,

I was sure I hadn't hallucinated. It looks like just the ticket! I have a 10x and a 30x loupe which are ok except for the shoddy optics in one of them so this scope is something to look forward to.

John

23rd Dec 2017 08:18 UTCBart Cannon

Try Amscope.com They have a stereo microscope for about $125. Replaced the lamp with a halogen reflector and bulbs. It has a two inch turret objective like the one in the photo. The image is crisp and nearly as good and Bausch Lomb Stereozoom 7. Put a tungesten ring light on the amscope and its even better.

23rd Dec 2017 09:53 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Contact ida@mindat.org - the product is essentially now ready for sale and we will be putting them up online in the new year, but if you want to get one early drop her a line.

23rd Dec 2017 14:19 UTCJohn Collins

Thanks.

Will do Jolyon

John

26th Dec 2017 09:56 UTCAlysson Rowan Expert

Any idea of a ballpark price yet?

26th Dec 2017 17:43 UTCOwen Lewis

Before spending any money, any would-be microscopist is well advised to be quite clear in their mind as to what they want to be able to do. Amongst the list of questions to ask oneself are:

- What working distance must I have? The larger and more '3-D' the specimens one works with the greater working distance (distance of subject to objective lens) needs to be. This is also related to magnification, since with any system the higher one's magnification the smaller the working distance will become.

- So leading on to magnification, will you be content working with magnification of about the range x5 - x20? Or do you really want to see what is going on in all those cracks, crevices and inclusions? For this, you want a microscope that can deliver x10 - x50 min, with the option to add an accessory objective lens that will take your magnification up to x100+ when you need to go there. Don't be tempted to spend money on eyepieces that magnify stronger than x10. With x20 or x30 eyepieces, sure you will see *bigger* - but at the cost of apparently diminished image sharpness. For upping the magnification, a stronger objective lens is the way to go. All this said, you may be surprised how much time you spend working in the x10-x30 range. However, if that is all your system can deliver you are due to be fairly regularly frustrated.

- Turret stepped or zoomed change in magnification. Zoom is a nice to have but not essential feature. You can save money by going with a turret design that steps between 2 or 3 magnification levels.Zooming magnification requires a more complicated optical design to do well and better by for the good turren than a poor zooming implementation.

- A microscope has three essential parts, base, support and optical pod. The support column holds the optical pod and is itself fixed to the base. Focus is primarily altered by raising and lowering the optical pod. The whole structure must be as stable and rigid as possible. That means that a lightweight microscope can never be as good as as a heavyweight. This is particularly true if you want to take good sharp photos. Camera exposure times increase as the square of increase in magnification. A specimen may be well lit at x10 mag but at x50 mag, one is screaming for more light - or working with exposure times that can range from (frequently) 1/4 sec to around 4 secs. The least vibration and you are continually frustrated by producing only fuzzy images (or wobbly viewing if using ones eyes rather than a camera).

- If you want to use a camera (doesn't everybody? How can you secure the camera rigidly to the microscope pod? And which camera which is a whole new topic.

The following are probably sensible and basic guidelines.

- Though there are those who post to say that they have loved their Amscope, there are more who report disappointment. This includes reports from those whose passion is microscopy and who partly make their living from microscope trading, repairs and renovation.

- By consenus, the cheapest scope worth buying is the GemOro Elite 1030, widely available in the US at $299 and with a decent manufacturer's warranty.

- Better scopes have never been made that those manufactured by the premium makes some 30-40 years ago.These regularly come up for sale on e-Bay priced in the USD 1-2K range. Risky for the novice but a good option is to pay a few bucks more and buy one of these units from a second-hand specialist dealer. Any interested in going this route can PM me for a reliable US source. This gets you an instrument that is as good or better than the 'research-grade units made today by Leica, Nikon etc and that sell for around 10-20K a pop

- Don't be lured by units with built-in lighting other that a bright field/darkfield light well and iris. Powerful illumination delivered accurately to where you want it is otherwise best provided by a stand-alone light source with 1 - 2 fibreoptic feeds fitted with collimating lens(es) at the termination. Cheapest and most popular units have a fan-cooled 250W quartz-halogen source. Check out XD-301 halogen lamps at around USD 150. For those *really* stubborn and dark tourmalines etc. consider a Xenon arc light :-) These come up on e-Bay fairly regularly. Use with care and suitable precautions ;-)

26th Dec 2017 21:10 UTCcascaillou

I own a gemoro elite 1030pm gemological microscope, which is a decent unit for less than 250$ brand new, however the gemological model isn't really appropriate for mineralogy as the head cannot be raised high enough to focus on the surface of any object exceeding 2cm in height (and as the stand isn't a rod, the head can't be rotated to get round this problem). I think gemoro has also commercialized a mineralogical unit which is almost identical but features a rod stand, which would be better (and could probably be replaced by a higher rod if wanted). The only other issue with the gemoro is the very weak 10w halogen light bulb of the darkfield. Some have suggested that it could be replaced by a 20w bulb for better luminosity, although that would double the heat output (and considering that some parts inside the base are simply glued instead of screwed, heat is probably best kept not too high).

Besides, I was curious about the rather cheap doveinstruments unit, but couldn't read any feedback about it.

26th Dec 2017 23:15 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

David,

I saw the photos you posted of the microscope the kids were using and it brought something to mind Owen missed in his needs in a scope. I had a friend that had a microscope with the same straight up and down eye pieces as in the photo. It is a scope that is used in looking as the kids did, standing above it. The thing to keep in mind here is very few actually use a microscope at home standing up. The eye pieces have to have an angle to allow use without breaking ones neck in a sitting position. The one friend who had the scope with nearly straight up and down eye pieces was impossible to use for any period of time. Keep this in mind when getting a microscope, how you will be using it. I have always recommended to any friends looking for a microscope, use one first to see if it fits with how you plan to use it.

26th Dec 2017 23:29 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

The scope is pretty much designed to act as an upgrade for a hand lens, as compared to a scope for extended use at home. It is designed to be battery powered and have integrated LED lighting. It should be easier to use in the field and carried to shops and shows (especially micromount symposia) for use in examining specimens and gemstones.

27th Dec 2017 03:20 UTCOwen Lewis

Rolf Luetcke Wrote:

......

> Owen missed in his needs in a scope. I had a

> friend that had a microscope with the same

> straight up and down eye pieces as in the photo.

> It is a scope that is used in looking as the kids

> did, standing above it. The thing to keep in

> mind here is very few actually use a microscope at

> home standing up. The eye pieces have to have an

> angle to allow use without breaking ones neck in a

> sitting position. The one friend who had the

> scope with nearly straight up and down eye pieces

> was impossible to use for any period of time.

> Keep this in mind when getting a microscope, how

> you will be using it. I have always recommended

> to any friends looking for a microscope, use one

> first to see if it fits with how you plan to use

> it.

Indeed I did forget :-( Intended to go back and edit and then forgot. User comfort is *very* important, particularly if, like me, you want to work for hours on end without a break. For me, if using a vertical stand, then a tilting stand is a good way to go. I use one and can work for 3-4 hours at a stretch without strain. But avoid cheap tilting units where the robustness and rigidity required in the hinge are usually absent.

For any who may not have seen this sort of equipment, here's a pic (below) of mine. The metal-work, electrics, lightwell and built in lights are a Chinese clone of the Gemolite Mark X design from. from the 1980's.

The Mk X was one of the finest designs of base and stand ever made - better than the current Gemolite offering and weighs in at around 40 pounds, i.e. It's massive and stable. The optical pod is 'no-name' Chinese manufacture designed mainly for QA work in microelectronics labs. he shell is metal for rigidity and long life and the it uses glass prisms and not much cheaper mirrors. The Chinese optical design is not the world's best but is good enough for me never to have upgraded it (I just moan quietly every now and again). XD-301 dual fibreoptic halogen light can be seen in position behind the scope.

The scope is in the vertical position as for storage. For use it tilts towards the users, bringing the eye-pieces down to exactly eye level when the used has a straight back.The massiveness of the hinge design can be seen. Two squash-ball sized control knobs are mounted left and right of the stand and raise and lower the optical pod for focusing, using a lockable rack and pinion design executed in brass and steel, giving fine control and long life.The second pair of smaller black balls seen mounted either side of the optical pod are for adjusting the zoom level. There is individual diopter adjustment on both eyepieces and one is fitted with a calibrated reticule for accurate scaling of objects viewed. On top of the optical pod a Canon camera adapter can be seen fitted to take a Canon DSLR camera body, a prism internal to the optical pod being rotated to divert the light train from going to the right eye-piece and into the trinocular port instead with no loss of brightness.

The working distance is 118mm for magnifications up to x65 using x10 eyepieces. For magnification in the range x65 - x130, the working distance drops to 35mm - which is OK for a gemologist but would be tight for many mineralogists.

As Cascaillou pointed out, there is a problem with the below-stage lamp being underpowered (10W on this unit) However the lamp can be changed to 20W and judicious use of the rheostat control to reduce output in 'rest' periods is sufficient to avoid over-heating problems, taken in combination with the massy finned light well attached to an equally massy metal stage that doubles conveniently as a heat-sink. Bought as a personal import direct from the Chinese manufacturer somewhere close to the Tibet border.

I bought this unit almost a decade ago but if any are interested in following up with this manufacturer, PM me for an e-address.. Whatever scope you buy, good luck! You are in for many, many hours of spectacular and revelatory exploration. The bits of information given above should be of interest and helpful as a guide to fundamental strong and weak points with whatever model you decide to buy. Buy the very best you can afford. Those who look for the cheapest either give up microscopy in disappointment after a month or so - or else buy a better unit. It's really worth taking the time to work out what you want to do and make sure that X or Y can deliver that for you before parting with any hard-earned cash.

27th Dec 2017 12:49 UTCJohn Collins

Hi Jolyon,

I have emailed ida but have had no reply as of yet. She is probably on vacation over the holidays. I'll keep watching for a reply.

John

28th Dec 2017 03:36 UTCIda Chau Manager

Hello John

yes currently I at holidays, so will email you the information after the holidays season

regards

Ida

28th Dec 2017 13:34 UTCJohn Collins

Super!

Don't rush home on my account!

John

28th Jan 2018 21:48 UTCJohn Collins

Hi Ida,

This is just a reminder that you were going to send me some information on the microscope for mineral collectors that mindat was going to be selling.

Regards,

John

28th Jan 2018 21:48 UTCJohn Collins

Hi Ida,

This is just a reminder that you were going to send me some information on the microscope for mineral collectors that mindat was going to be selling.

Regards,

John

30th Jan 2018 18:54 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Just saw the microscope on the mindat page for the Tucson show and it looks very nice. Saw the eye pieces are at a good angle too. Perfect for the beginner or for field work.

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