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Improving Mindat.orgMissing Entry on Commodies List

28th Jun 2019 14:31 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

We need "Mineral Pigments" added to the commodity list. Also, bauxite and aluminium should not be linked. There are other ores of aluminium (e.g., nepheline syenite). Selecting Al also selects bauxite, which may not be the case. Thank you!!

Chet

28th Jun 2019 15:26 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

nepheline syenite is on the commodity list (although it can be an aluminum source, it can also be used in roofing granules and ceramics)

The vast majority of aluminum production is from bauxite.

28th Jun 2019 16:14 UTCPaul Brandes 🌟 Manager

Agree that bauxite and aluminum should remain linked. Bauxite is the most common (and most well known) source of aluminum from a mineral, so it makes sense that these should be together.

I could see "mineral pigments" being added to the commodities list, since many ancient mines were dug solely for the purpose of providing pigments.

28th Jun 2019 16:31 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

The USGS publishes a yearbook on the Iron Oxide Pigments

28th Jun 2019 19:07 UTCMichael Hatskel

Aluminum and its ores (bauxite, aluminous laterite, nepheline syenite, alunite rock) shall be possible to select separately as commodities.

1. As Chet correctly stated, different ores can be mined for aluminum, not just bauxite, which undeniably remains the principal ore of aluminum.

2. On the other hand, all of the aluminum ores listed above can be mined and processed as industrial minerals, e.g. bauxite for chemicals and abrasives; nepheline syenite for ceramics; alunite rock for chemicals. Industrial minerals production is combined with aluminum ore production in some localities (as a byproduct of aluminum production) and completely separate in others where aluminum if not produced at all (e.g. grade is too bad or too good for metallurgical bauxite production).

3. I was unable to find the list of commodities in the Edit mode (probably not enough authority). So I don't know which commodities are available on the list.

4. I also don't know if it's possible to designate some commodities as Primary for a locality and others as Minor or Byproduct. Lots of mines are processing complex ores and are not single-commodity producers.

So going back to Bauxite: If we have "Bauxite (Aluminium)", we should also have

"Bauxite (Chemicals)"

"Bauxite (Abrasives)"

"Nepheline syenite (Aluminium)"

"Nepheline syenite (Ceramics)"

"Nepheline syenite (Aggregate)"

"Alunite rock (Aluminium)"

"Alunite rock (Chemicals)".

Also, please verify that Laterite rock is not listed exclusivery as the iron ore, because there are laterites mined primarily for REE or Nickel or Abrasives.

28th Jun 2019 20:16 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

I'm happy to add subdivisions, but for each please give at least two examples of mines/deposits that can be categorized with this commodity type - there's no point adding things that aren't used.

28th Jun 2019 21:12 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Jolyon,

Please see Pennsylvania - there are a bunch of pigment mines listed that need the commodity to update them properly. These were extracted from a state publication covering just mineral pigments. Just a few examples, many more as well:

https://www.mindat.org/loc-18362.html

https://www.mindat.org/loc-12114.html

Chet

28th Jun 2019 21:57 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

I've added Ochre/Pigment

29th Jun 2019 13:15 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Thank you!!

30th Jun 2019 12:04 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

It can get complicated. We have some bauxite deposits that were producing bauxite mainly as a filler in rubber tyres. The same applies to some kaolin deposits, and limestone, used for paper filler, so we probably need to add filler as a commodity. We also have magnetite deposits mined not for iron but for an additive in coal washing - gets a premium price also, I depend at of iron prices. Not sure what that fits under, magnetite I guess

30th Jun 2019 12:16 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

I think it doesn't matter so much what the commodity is being used for, what matters is what is being mined. There are exceptions to this, and a garnet gemstone mine is very different to a garnet abrasive deposit, but where you have bauxite being mined I don't think it really matters what it is being used for (and in many cases the product will have multiple uses)

30th Jun 2019 23:17 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

The commodity being mined may well be destined for many different uses which can change quickly as economic demand changes. End uses are something interesting for the description field for a deposit, but probably not appropriate for the commodities list itself.

I know a calcite marble mined for a toothpaste company, and a dolomite quarried for nutrition supplement pills, and pyrite dug out for a tin volatilization plant, and pyrrhotite mined for being burned to hematite pigment... none of which end uses necessarily need to engender a new entry on the commodities list.

1st Jul 2019 00:07 UTCMichael Hatskel

Hi Alfredo,

The problem was the association of Aluminum and Bauxite in the "Bauxite (Aluminium)" entry. It will be best if they are separated.

USGS Mineral Commodity Summaries are listing "Aluminum" and "Bauxite" as separate commodities.

Bauxite is mined and can be processed for metal production (aluminum) or for chemicals (low-iron, chemical-grade bauxite) or for industrial minerals (abrasives, refractories, other ceramics, cement, etc.).

Using "Bauxite (Aluminium)" as a commodity perpetuates the myth that bauxite is only used as aluminum ore.

As an example, in USA only Arkansas mines and for a short time Virginia mines (during WWII) mined bauxite for aluminum production. All other bauxite deposits in Southeastern USA (AL, GA, TN) have been producing bauxite exclusively as an industrial mineral, primarily for ceramics industry. It is very inaccurate, IMHO, to list them as producers of aluminum.

Alunite was mined as aluminum ore in one locality only: Zaglik, Azerbaijan (https://www.mindat.org/loc-146187.html). Alunite ore was processed at the Gyanja alumina refinery, which producer metallurgincal alumina, but also sulfate chemicals as a byproducts.

China looked at using Fanshan alunite (https://www.mindat.org/loc-145240.html) as aluminum ore, but I don't know if any production actually took place. Lovely looking rock resembling Jasper, by the way.

I would like to repeat my suggestion to establish a "Principal Commodity" flag, to designate the main commodity vs. byproducts.

1st Jul 2019 00:42 UTCMichael Hatskel

@Ralph, you wrote "It can get complicated."

@Jolyon, you wrote "I think it doesn't matter so much what the commodity is being used for, what matters is what is being mined."

Yes, it may become complex and overwhelming if we try to list all possible end uses for the mined ore.

Noone is suggesting that - that would be too granular.

Commodities are subdivided into four main types: Metals, Energy, Gemstones, and Industrial minerals (i.e. minerals that are not sources of metals, fuel, or gemstones). THAT is the distinction that needs to be clear when assigning commodities to a specific location.

I would also add Construction Materials type, as many of the quarry localities produce crushed stone or dimension stone, and it helps when collectors know that.

Bauxite mined primarily for aluminum extraction is a Metal commodity -- in that case "Bauxite (Aluminum)" entry is justified.

Bauxite mined for other uses is an industrial mineral commodity -- that that case is shall be listed as "Bauxite (Industrial minerals)."

I would still prefer "Aluminum" and "Bauxite" as separate commodities.

Limestone/Dolostone mined for industrial lime or agricultural lime (aglime) falls under Industrial minerals commodity. However limestone quarried for construction aggregate (crushed stone) falls under Construction materials.

Hematite mined as iron ore is a Metals commodity ("Iron Ore").

Hematite mined for pigments is an Industrial mineral -- USGS has the "Iron Oxide Pigments" commodity.

1st Jul 2019 10:26 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

If there is no difference between the bauxite mined for aluminium and the bauxite mined as an industrial mineral I see no reason to split them.

If the bauxite mined for industrial minerals is a much higher grade, or purity, than that for aluminium production (or vice versa) then there is.

``The problem here is we are mixing "commodities" with "commercial purpose" of the material. A granite quarry may be creating aggregate, or it may be creating dimension stone for paving tiles. Or both. But it's still granite. Unfortunately we are stuck with the inconsistent and confused source data that was used to populate the database.

1st Jul 2019 11:32 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

I would propose to split the entry " sand and gravel ".

In Belgium, there are many sandpits and they did not produce any gravel !

Clay and sandstone for sure but no gravel.

1st Jul 2019 12:03 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Change to "sand/gravel" or "sand or gravel"?

1st Jul 2019 12:39 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

No because how do we move existing entries if we don't know if they are sand or gravel or both. Sand/gravel means sand and/or gravel.

1st Jul 2019 14:13 UTCMichael Hatskel

I agree that there is no need in separating Sand and Gravel into two commodities.

The aggregates industry uses Sand/Gravel as a joint product category for sand and/or gravel produced without crushing stone, by simply separating into size fractions on the sieves. Such natural sand (and gravel) has naturally rounded shapes.

Sand fractions produced in the course of crushing stone are designated as a manufactured sand and included in the Aggregates (Crushed Stone) product category. Manufactured sand has angular shapes, as opposed to rounded natural sand.

1st Jul 2019 14:34 UTCMichael Hatskel

@Jolyon,

There is a difference between the bauxite mined for aluminum (it is called metallurgical grade bauxite) and the bauxite mined as an industrial mineral (for nonmetallurgical uses: abrasives, chemicals, and refractories).

Metallurgical grade bauxite is not better or worse than nonmetallurgical bauxite - it's all about the ability to remove Si, Fe and other impurities when processing bauxite, which of course depends on mineral and chemical composition of the bauxite. But generally, if too much Si and Fe, it may not be good enough for metallurgical use. Other detrimental impurities are also taken into account, e.g. phosphorus.

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