Discussions

💬 Home 🔎 Search 📅 Latest

╳Discussions

💬 Home 🔎 Search 📅 Latest

Groups

Recent Images in Discussions

Fakes & FraudsFaked Sulfur Specimen?

5th Aug 2017 12:50 UTCJeffrey Shallit

At the Bancroft, Ontario Gem and Mineral Show I saw an unusual sulfur specimen offered for sale, with the locality given as "Lipari Island, Italy". However, pictures of sulfur from this locality don't look anything like this specimen.

The specimen much more closely resembles pieces recently offered for sale on e-rocks with the location "Kawah-Ijen Volcano, Java, Indonesia" (see, e.g., https://e-rocks.com/item/mgr602213/sulphur ).

However pictures of the Java locality online show sellers with many items evidently cast from molds (see, e.g., http://www.topindonesiaholidays.com/blog/?p=754 ).

So I am wondering

(i) is the given Italian location believable? I am guessing no.

(ii) is the specimen really from Java? I am guessing yes.

(iii) is the specimen really natural, or is it formed by humans pouring and twisting molten sulfur? I am guessing the latter.

5th Aug 2017 13:15 UTCHolger Hartmaier 🌟

Hi Jeffrey,

Here in Alberta, sulphur is extracted by the ton from sour gas (natural gas containing hydrogen sulphide and stored in immense stockpiles (see attached photo). It is used by various industries (i.e. fertilizer/chemical) in both solid and liquid form. I can't say if your specimen is a fake or not, but just wanted to make you aware that there is a lot of artificial sulphur available from industrial sources.

I'm sure there are Mindat members who might provide better opinions on the validity of the label.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSjSYRKxq-yekRWFUfTGQTCEY6V7vWm1YtGJ5r7CvudGMuuNpNLhQ

Cheers,

Holger

5th Aug 2017 14:40 UTCBob Harman

JEFFREY,

You probably know that several years ago, on this Mindat website, there was a thread on another type of cleverly faked very hi end sulfur crystal specimens. Those examples, I think they also were from Italy, were eventually proved to be fakes as their sulfur isotope was not the same as the naturally occurring isotope from that locality. If it would be worthwhile and provable, maybe sulfur isotope studies could be used on these examples. CHEERS......BOB

6th Aug 2017 03:55 UTCDoug Daniels

Yeh , isotopes..... You'd have to purchase the durned thing, then have it analyzed. Most of us can't afford that option. Just sayin'.

6th Aug 2017 04:56 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

And an isotope analysis may or may not prove anything at all. If a faker bought volcanic sulphur and used it to grow an artificial "Sicilian" crystal on a Sicilian natural matrix, yes, the isotope analysis could tell you something is wrong. But if they used Sicilian sulphur, an isotope analysis would tell nothing useful.

6th Aug 2017 12:01 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

It could be manmade but there is no way of determining if it is or not. I would just stay away from it if you are not sure.

6th Aug 2017 13:50 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

"But if they used Sicilian sulphur, an isotope analysis would tell nothing useful." - It might still pick up differences. If all the sulfur got used, there wouldn't be any isotopic separation, but if the reactions didn't go to completion, there still could be an isotopic shift between the product and the growing medium.

7th Aug 2017 15:04 UTCLuca Baralis Expert

Yes it could be natural, but I think it's man-made.

7th Aug 2017 17:49 UTCHolger Klapproth

Hi Jeffrey,

the sulfur specimen you have here is certainly not a natural specimen from the Liparic islands. I have been there several times on field trips and the sulfur there is condensed from fumaroles. It has a totally different look. This material looks like having been made from molten sulfur (maybe by casting it in water). This stuff is sold on the islands but it certainly does not build like this in nature. I used to get sulfur from our local petrol refinery when I was a kid. They produce a lot when they remove sulfur from the crude oil. And it is very very cheap. There is such a facility in the next town (Milazzo) from the Liparic Islands. And I guess some people found a nice way in turning this in a business and extract some money from the tourists. Btw the same crap is sold on Vesuvius.

Best regards

Holger

Mindat.org is an outreach project of the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy, a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization.
Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2024, except where stated. Most political location boundaries are © OpenStreetMap contributors. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters. Founded in 2000 by Jolyon Ralph.
Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us / DMCA issues - Report a bug/vulnerability Current server date and time: April 26, 2024 23:11:36

Go to top of page