Home PageAbout MindatThe Mindat ManualHistory of MindatCopyright StatusWho We AreContact UsAdvertise on Mindat
Donate to MindatCorporate SponsorshipSponsor a PageSponsored PagesMindat AdvertisersAdvertise on Mindat
Learning CenterWhat is a mineral?The most common minerals on earthInformation for EducatorsMindat ArticlesThe ElementsThe Rock H. Currier Digital LibraryGeologic Time
Minerals by PropertiesMinerals by ChemistryAdvanced Locality SearchRandom MineralRandom LocalitySearch by minIDLocalities Near MeSearch ArticlesSearch GlossaryMore Search Options
The Mindat ManualAdd a New PhotoRate PhotosLocality Edit ReportCoordinate Completion ReportAdd Glossary Item
Mining CompaniesStatisticsUsersMineral MuseumsClubs & OrganizationsMineral Shows & EventsThe Mindat DirectoryDevice SettingsThe Mineral Quiz
Photo SearchPhoto GalleriesSearch by ColorNew Photos TodayNew Photos YesterdayMembers' Photo GalleriesPast Photo of the Day GalleryPhotography
╳Discussions
💬 Home🔎 Search📅 LatestGroups
EducationOpen discussion area.Fakes & FraudsOpen discussion area.Field CollectingOpen discussion area.FossilsOpen discussion area.Gems and GemologyOpen discussion area.GeneralOpen discussion area.How to ContributeOpen discussion area.Identity HelpOpen discussion area.Improving Mindat.orgOpen discussion area.LocalitiesOpen discussion area.Lost and Stolen SpecimensOpen discussion area.MarketplaceOpen discussion area.MeteoritesOpen discussion area.Mindat ProductsOpen discussion area.Mineral ExchangesOpen discussion area.Mineral PhotographyOpen discussion area.Mineral ShowsOpen discussion area.Mineralogical ClassificationOpen discussion area.Mineralogy CourseOpen discussion area.MineralsOpen discussion area.Minerals and MuseumsOpen discussion area.PhotosOpen discussion area.Techniques for CollectorsOpen discussion area.The Rock H. Currier Digital LibraryOpen discussion area.UV MineralsOpen discussion area.Recent Images in Discussions
Fakes & Frauds60 Minutes Sunken Treasure Emerald Find
23rd Apr 2012 02:09 UTCRudy Bolona Expert
23rd Apr 2012 02:14 UTCPhil M. Belley Expert
23rd Apr 2012 03:44 UTCAnonymous User
23rd Apr 2012 13:49 UTCOwen Lewis
Known facts are these:
- For a couple of hundred years, most of the Emeralds from Colombia were shipped to Spain before being sold on elsewhere.
- The practice of the oiling of Emeralds (and the heating of Sapphires) seems as old as their use in jewellery. I.e. The practice stretches back into antiquity.
*If* some of the stones recovered from the sea-bed were filled, that is hardly surprising. If the filler has been properly analysed and identified as an epoxy resin, that is remarkable and suspicions BUT oil lying under the sea for three hundred years or so is quite likely to have undergone some changes to its chemistry and I would not be prepared to shout 'Fraud!' unless I had access to a database on Emerald fillers of similar age and South America sourcing - which I don't ;-)
23rd Apr 2012 14:34 UTCTom Klinepeter
23rd Apr 2012 16:48 UTCJOE S.
23rd Apr 2012 17:06 UTCTom Bennett
Very interesting ....
The one scene where the guy takes the reporter under water to the site seemed odd to me.
The emeralds were just laying there .... to me it looked liked they were just dropped there .... wouldn't they have stuff growing on them if they were in the water that long ? Barnacles ?
Why wouldn't they have been buried after time ?
Wouldn't under water currents have moved them and spread them about ?
Could the emeralds have been illegally removed from where ever they came from and the ' sunken treasure ' story be a cleaver cover ?
This has movie written all over it .....
23rd Apr 2012 17:22 UTCRudy Bolona Expert
23rd Apr 2012 18:16 UTCMaggie Wilson Expert
23rd Apr 2012 18:45 UTCStephanie Martin
I hope they get enough compaints and issue a retraction or something about the story.
just my 2 cents.
stephanie (td)
23rd Apr 2012 19:19 UTCSpencer Ivan Mather
23rd Apr 2012 19:33 UTCDan Fountain
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7406226n&tag=contentBody;storyMediaBox
23rd Apr 2012 19:47 UTCDavid DeCourcey
The Emeralds and Amethyst found don't look to be of a very high quality.
I have seen pictures of Emeralds found in the Atocha wreck and they were gem crystals.
What this guy is finding looks like low quality tumbling material.
24th Apr 2012 00:02 UTCOwen Lewis
Bottom line must be that, yes, there's a stack of rough Emerald and, no, there's no evidence that it came from a colonial era treasure ship. Not sure about the 'resin filling since the 50's'.... Oiling, certainly, (since forever). The gem trade has only known of synthetic resin filling of gemstones since the 1980's (Canada Balsam filling for a lot longer).
Any with an passing interest in the business might like to read http://lgdl.gia.edu/pdfs/johnson_history_su07.pdf . The key factors for a filler are that the it must be reasonably stable, it must be transparent and it must have a refractive index that approximates to that of the crystal.The traditional oil was (and still is) Cedarwood Oil. Canada Balsam has also been used for around 100 years. Other oils have also been used too, including paraffin oil. Oiling of Rubies and Emeralds is often routinely done on the rough ( i.e. before first sale). Filling rough with a modern resin (for Emerald) or glass (Ruby or Diamond) can stabilise an otherwise badly fissured stone sufficiently for it to be cut without breaking up. The oiling of Emerald is to be expected as the norm. I know of one Brazil-based dealer who says he has only been offered one untreated Emerald in the last three years. There is some resistance to resin filing, though I believe that it is gaining ground. Oiling is easily removed and should be repeated every few years. There is also a solvent for Opticon, the most widely used resin filler. There is now a filler resin offered with a lifetime guarantee.
24th Apr 2012 14:23 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert
24th Apr 2012 16:37 UTCEd Mattson
I do not think the Spanish of the would have wasted time and money to enhance uncut rough. That would be up too the jeweler would cut and mount the stones.
Howver, fraud in claiming modern crystals as Atocha salvage or modern treatment of genuine wreck site rough by a later owner is vey easy and possible to do.
In leiu of an ironclad origin cetificate, testing is the only way to prove authenticity.
24th Apr 2012 21:26 UTCDavid Bruno
25th Apr 2012 01:01 UTCBart Cannon
Very annoying for the emerald cutter to have a stone fall in half.
I think the inclusions in Brazlian emeralds versus Columbian emeralds is well covered in Edward Gubelin's books.
As usual, I like to include a story.
I had a consulting client who was in the Chicago Mafia. He burned up about an hour and a half of my life during his first phone call. I told him the next call will be billed. He said, in his thick "usual suspects" accent, I'll send you 500 carats of cut emeralds from Columbia. He had them stored in a series of 5 gallon buckets. They were what is known as "jungle cuts", but they are pretty in color and sparkle just fine. I give them away as birthday gifts to my female friends. And I offer waitresses a choice of whether they want a $10 tip or an emerald. They always take the emerald.
A bit later the Mafia Man wanted to start paying me in better quality emeralds. I declined after he boasted that he had been in court 17 times on murder charges, and never spent a night in jail.
He wanted to buy the Utah red beryl locality, and he told me that he could get the Cryo-Genie back for me the same afternoon we were on the phone together. NO ! NO ! NO! I said. Even though I did want it back.
Bart
25th Apr 2012 04:28 UTCRudy Bolona Expert
26th Apr 2012 03:42 UTCAnonymous User
The story behind it is that back when the crews were salvaging treasure from the wreck, they would keep little bits for themselves. This particular crystal was supposedly given as a tip to a musician working a bar that the workers frequented at night. (The second story of emerald as a tip in this post!) Like I said, I make no claim of authenticity, I just relate the story and agree that it is a nice Columbian emerald crystal.
25th May 2012 22:58 UTCTim Jokela Jr
That ain't Colombian. And all of it so very, very clean. No algae or coral growth or anything, very odd.
The whole thing is some sort of scam, and I love it. Sure, it reveals 60 Minutes to be just the same as all US news - entertainment, not news, but still, it's just delicious and I'd love to know the whole story.
If anybody hears more about this, please post.
Mindat.org is an outreach project of the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy, a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization.
Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2024, except where stated. Most political location boundaries are © OpenStreetMap contributors. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters. Founded in 2000 by Jolyon Ralph.
Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us / DMCA issues - Report a bug/vulnerability Current server date and time: May 9, 2024 21:54:16
Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2024, except where stated. Most political location boundaries are © OpenStreetMap contributors. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters. Founded in 2000 by Jolyon Ralph.
Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us / DMCA issues - Report a bug/vulnerability Current server date and time: May 9, 2024 21:54:16