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EducationFrench translation help needed
18th Nov 2011 18:12 UTCVandall Thomas King Manager
18th Nov 2011 18:34 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager
http://books.google.com/books?id=sE-N3v0IoXcC&pg=PA660&lpg=PA660&dq=des+gergons+des&source=bl&ots=vvem13Lukv&sig=bxUppP3LIe7lwF097GRH3GOuHAc&hl=en&ei=RqTGTvH6Kobs2AWome37Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
18th Nov 2011 21:45 UTCJean-Marc Johannet Manager
As David thought it would be an old synonym for "jargon" but by the way that doesn't light us about the meaning of Van citation.
Maybe a wrong reading of a hand writing paper.
18th Nov 2011 22:08 UTCVandall Thomas King Manager
Anonymous, 1836, De l'étude des sciences naturelles aux États-Unis et de ceux qui les cultivent, Revue Britannique ou Choix D'Articles Traduit des Meilleurs Écrits Périodiques, v. 22, p. 78-79.
Yes, the reason that I asked is that the word is not currently in any French dictionary I could find. Yes, it could be a strange typographical error. The word appears in the last sentence of the first paragraph on page 79. Book is available at Google Books
18th Nov 2011 22:19 UTCVik Vanrusselt Expert
There is an order of corals called the "Gorgonacea" or "Gorgonians" ("Gorgones" in French).
The English name of these animals is "Sea Whips" or "Sea Fans".
In Dutch that order of corals is called "Hoornkoralen", which translated into English means "Horn Corals".
Would that make any sense in this context?
I found the exact passage in another book on Google Books (not the one Van cites): "Cinq Mois aux Etats-Unis de l'Amérique du Nord, depuis le 29 avril jusqu'au 23 septembre 1835. Journal de voyage de M. Ramon de la Sagra" dated 1837.
Translated: "Five months in the United States of North America, from 29 April until 23 September 1835. Travel Journal of M. Ramon de la Sagra."
This is apparently a book translated from Spanish into French, and gergones (with E as the second letter instead of an A) is most likely just a typo.
If any of you have any more translation questions (for Dutch, English, French or German), you can always send me a PM.
Vik
P.S.: a few lines above the 'gargones' is the word "sparraguines", does anyone have any idea what that means?
18th Nov 2011 23:58 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert
19th Nov 2011 00:06 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert
19th Nov 2011 12:04 UTCJohan Kjellman Expert
ZIRCON!!
see for example:
http://books.google.com/books?id=hggAAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA127&dq=gergon+zircon&hl=sv&ei=3JrHTr3EItPY4QSu8NRn&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=gergon%20zircon&f=false
cheers
19th Nov 2011 15:02 UTCVandall Thomas King Manager
"Alois Joseph Xavar von Lederer was the fifth child of August <1723 Grossenhain, Saxony – 1795> and Sabrina (von Erientl) <†1796> von Lederer. August Gottlob von Lederer, who was the first in the family line of the barony of Lederer, was bestowed with that title in 1778 and he, himself, was descended though a line of important political figures and important civil servants. Alois' grandfather was at one time the Domain Administrator of Kur-Saxony and who later negotiated the peace treaty ending the Seven Years War on March 15, 1763. In 1750, August Gottlob Lederer was an official in the supreme council of Wien (Vienna) and in 1758 was the Secretary in the Supreme Council. August was also one time head of the Belgian department of the Holy Roman Empire. Alois' siblings were well-known in their own right, particularly his very successful older brother, Ignaz Ludwig Paul Freiherr von Lederer, who eventually rose to the rank of Field Marshall in the Austrian army. Alois' son, Carl, was a career diplomat and eventually Austrian ambassador to the United States in 1868. Alois lived in a number of locations in Manhattan, New York City: 13 Murray Street , 12 St. Mark's Place , 72 Greenwich . Joseph A. Gordon was listed as vice consul from Austria at 38 South Street in 1833. An Eric E. Petersen is listed as a “Danish & Austrian consul” at 118 Pearl Street in 1827. Alois had a summer house in Newburgh on the Hudson River as early as November 1823 when he was mentioned as a resident of Newburgh (Anonymous, 1824). On May 10, 1824, Alois appeared before a notary public in Newburgh, where the gave testimony concerning the value of Spanish money and interest rates in Spain."
19th Nov 2011 15:29 UTCJohan Kjellman Expert
Google books is great but it is not consistent in terms of searching/finding the books. Sometimes one find them through title sometimes through author sometimes other ways - very much "human factor" involved in the logging of the google books items...
cheers
19th Nov 2011 15:58 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager
Portrait of Lederer, with following note:
Alois, Freiherr von Lederer, K. k. Oest. Consul-general in North America, was entrusted in 1819 with the attachment of the diplomatic relations with the Republic of the United States. He New York as the most suitable central point was to fulfill his duty and knew it because his office there until 1838, which were then part of both States creirt Gesandschaftsposten. On 27 August 1829 he signed the first trade and navigation treaty with the United States of America.
http://books.google.com/books?id=odQsAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA189&dq=Alois++von+Lederer&hl=en&ei=jM3HTqDsAeb40gHRh9Qu&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Alois%20%20von%20Lederer&f=false
19th Nov 2011 16:01 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager
http://books.google.com/books?id=3FgFAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA164&dq=enfin+de+l%27or+de+Virginie,+de+la+Caroline+et+de+la+Georgie;+et+des+rutiles+et+des+gergons+des+Etats+du+Sud.&hl=en&ei=W9LHTvfAFoKMgwe2meFm&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=enfin%20de%20l%27or%20de%20Virginie%2C%20de%20la%20Caroline%20et%20de%20la%20Georgie%3B%20et%20des%20rutiles%20et%20des%20gergons%20des%20Etats%20du%20Sud.&f=false
21st Nov 2011 16:48 UTCVandall Thomas King Manager
9th Dec 2011 22:48 UTCKen Doxsee
Author(s): F. M. Endlich; Source: The American Naturalist, Vol. 22, No. 253 (Jan., 1888), pp. 21-32
On page 31:
ZIRCON.-The derivation of this name is somewhat peculiar. For many years the Island of Ceylon furnished gems and half gems. Some of the latter were utilized to imitate their more valu- able associates. Such were called jargon in French.' Among them were some colorless crystals, and others of yellow and reddish shades, which turned white and clear under the application of heat. These were especially desirable for the imitation of diamond, and to them the name jargon finally attached itself almost exclusively. In the middle of the last century Linnoeus describes this mineral under the name of jargon in such a manner that its identity can be established. He states (Ed. Gmelin, 1777) that the (presumably German) jewelers' name for reddish jargons which turned colorless in the fire was " Cerkonier" (Cerkon), and that they exhibited the fire and lustre of the poorer quality of diamonds. In 1783, Werner, the famous mineralogist of Freiberg, produced the name Zirkon for this mineral. In ordinary parlance, the zircon is known as jargon in France to-day, so that the accepted scientific name is to be regarded as a corruption of the popular one.
1. Linnaeus mentions Fr. jargon and It. sargone, yellow diamonds- the inferior class-whence the name may have been transferred to the stones which counterfeited the valuable gem.
19th Jan 2012 18:11 UTCVandall Thomas King Manager
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