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Fakes & FraudsMinerals Guaranteed NOT to Have Any Healing Properties
4th May 2014 12:26 UTCJeffrey Shallit
Our minerals are guaranteed NOT to have any healing properties whatsoever.
Should you be healed, a refund will gladly be issued.*
* Upon production of a note, attesting to the healing by a licensed physician.
4th May 2014 14:33 UTCSpencer Ivan Mather
Spencer.
4th May 2014 18:00 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager
5th May 2014 01:27 UTCSteve Federico
5th May 2014 01:46 UTCJeffrey Shallit
Fine with me. I don't mind selling to believers in crystal healing for their own personal use, but I refuse to sell to anyone who's going to make money doing "crystal healing" on others. To do so would be to be complicit in fraud.
They should not be ridiculed and BULLIED at Mindat or anywhere else.
Get a grip! My sign is completely truthful. It doesn't "bully" anyone. It made a lot of people laugh, and I even had a couple of good discussions with believers in crystal healing.
The administrators should step in and stop these kind of posts when they start.
Right, censorship of ideas you don't like is always the solution.
5th May 2014 01:50 UTCKeith Wood
I am not saying we have to respect their views - nobody can be compelled to respect what they see as ludicrous. I am saying that we should respect them as the human beings they are, regardless of their views, and not subject them to public mockery - it strikes me as small minded mock them in that way.
It also makes no marketing sense. Their money spends as well as anyone's. But it is not just them you may offend; there is a less kooky element that doesn't believe the healing stuff that will also find your signs offensive. I might even think twice about buying from you because of them.
This is all coming from a devoted Christian, not some member of the PC Police. It just seems like there is more than enough rancor in the world without adding to it needlessly.
Now if you want to put those in your rock room, go right ahead.
5th May 2014 02:24 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager
Mineral shows should seriously not be encouraging belief in healing properties of minerals. People actually die by delaying access to real medical treatment while they try "alternative therapies". I can't stop someone from believing in pseudoscience, but I applaud those like Jeffrey who take a public stand against it.
5th May 2014 09:31 UTCToby Billing
5th May 2014 10:06 UTCPierre Rondelez
I applaud your stand and your humorous signs, also thumbs up for Alfredo when he points out that people actually die by delaying access to real medical treatment while they try "alternative therapies".
I find it extremely disturbing that people claim at the same to be "devoted Christian" together with " It just seems like there is more than enough rancor in the world without adding to it needlessly "and finish their reply with "Crystals AND Pistols".
I, as a mineral collector/dealer, only attend 2 Mineral Shows in Belgium: Gent and Harelbeke where on both Shows any sign or sale of "therapeutic, alternative, healing properties minerals/crystals etc" is strictly forbidden.
They are both VERY good shows and when people want to buy crystals for their own use, believing the "magic" I certainly will sell them, it may even help them in a way if they believe strongly enough "the placebo effect" you know........
My 5 cents,
Pierre
5th May 2014 12:01 UTCMark Heintzelman 🌟 Expert
But as a human being, the idea that we have no "sacred cows", that there won't be people who are truly offended by having others mock their beliefs, is just not realistic. Try being an outspoken atheist for instance. I am always reminded that I "have to" have respect, at least for the nonsense that is the 4, maybe 5, major religions of the world, despite the fact that there is no aspect about them that can be proven worthy of "belief" either. Where is a person of science to go with this expectation, and why are my beliefs not worthy of this kind of respect? Simply because they are NOT based on, to the best of our limited abilities, disprovable "truths"?
Best to deal with it on a case by case basis, in private and amongst people you know and trust, lest the unwashed hordes take at you with their torches and pitchforks.
MRH
PS: Jeffrey, this doesn't mean I don't actually admire you "stepping up to the plate" on this. Kudos!! :D
5th May 2014 12:34 UTCGary Moldovany
5th May 2014 13:14 UTCJeffrey Shallit
That's certainly true. I'd even guess at our local mineral shows, 95% of the people who come are not serious mineral collectors.
But they are precisely the people who can be fooled by bogus claims (or at least claims without any serious evidence) about the "healing properties" of minerals! My signs (and I have others - if you want, ask me for a copy of my serious and detailed handout "The Sad Truth About Crystal Healing" that I give away at shows - over 250 copies have been picked up by attendees over the last few years) are intended to educate and perhaps even provoke serious thought about these bogus claims.
As the people who study and sell minerals, we have a duty and an obligation to be truthful and not participate in fraud. I only wish the geological and mineralogical societies would step up to the plate and issue statements on the matter. I've tried to get two different mineralogical societies to do so, but to say they are reluctant would be to understate the reaction I got.
5th May 2014 13:58 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert
I have noticed at the Tucson Mineral Show that the metaphysical guide has now gotten larger than the regular show guide.
I actually picked one of the guides up one time and had to read my wife an article at the back. It was about a recently discovered mineral and the article was talking about all the ancient healing powers of this particular mineral. Try and get your mind around that one!!
As has been said above, if people believe in things in their personal lives and don't interfere with anyone else, no major harm done.
I used to think I could change the world but with age realized I was pretty much trying to stop the wind from blowing.
I agree with Alfredo completely and if anyone ever tries to continue a conversation about healing powers I would gladly enter those waters.
my 5 cents worth
Rolf
5th May 2014 16:12 UTCDennis McCoy
5th May 2014 17:43 UTCDoug Daniels
5th May 2014 19:22 UTCDon Swenson
A modest suggestion for another sign for your establishment: "Please be advised that the owner(s) of this establishment confess to having a sense of humor."
5th May 2014 23:10 UTCSteve Federico
6th May 2014 02:21 UTCJeffrey Shallit
Isn't it evident that at least some of us disagree with you what the "right thing" to do is?
6th May 2014 10:24 UTCTom Shango
All the best.
6th May 2014 10:39 UTCRock Currier Expert
6th May 2014 12:03 UTCTom V.
6th May 2014 14:50 UTCcascaillou
6th May 2014 14:57 UTCTom V.
Yes, no doubt many minerals are essential to our continued living, salt being a good example. My response, and I believe the topic of this thread as a whole, address "crystal healing,"--the idea that holding a quartz crystal, or meditating with a piece of amazonite in your hand, will bring about the magical healing of various ailments and diseases.
Tom
6th May 2014 16:36 UTCDoug Daniels
6th May 2014 16:59 UTCcascaillou
Let's still note that while placebo is a brain trick, the brain (i.e. nervous system) affects the immune system (meaning that stress and depression can weaken your immune system). Which of course doesn't mean that a placebo will heal you from anything.
Anyway, every time "crystal healing" is debated, I feel it is important to remind people that such debate shouldn't stifle the facts, which are that medicine has proven that some minerals can heal you, without any unexplainable phenomenoms taking place.
6th May 2014 17:57 UTCIbrahim Jameel Expert
When asked if any of my rocks have unspecified "powers," I start to show my radioactive specimens.
When specific powers are asked for, I politely reply "it's a load of BS" or perhaps find a more tame way to voice my skepticism, depending on my level of annoyance, which is typically correlated to how many of my specimens they have already rubbed up on, or otherwise straddled.....
For as long as @$$holes trademark rock names to dupe people into buying them, I shall continue to ridicule.
6th May 2014 18:44 UTCTony Nikischer 🌟 Manager
6th May 2014 19:16 UTCMichael Hatskel
Making money off one's math disability is even worse than making money off one's belief in supernatural rocks! ;-)
6th May 2014 20:01 UTCDoug Daniels
7th May 2014 03:48 UTCRobert Land
Jeff, and everyone here who collects minerals. How many times have you had a hard day at work or anywhere, then came home and sat down in front of your collection with a beer, or, of it was a really bad day something stronger. Then remembered where this one came from, how hard it was to chisel that one out of matrix, or the pride you have in that one outstanding specimen in the center of your display. Or remember when the raccoon stole the loaf of bread out of your truck right in front of you, or when you tripped over two mating skunks in the bush, because you were looking for rocks not skunks. ( I got away. they had other things on their minds) Many times I've sat down and relaxed in front of my collection. Moved a specimen so the light catches it just that little bit better. Then moved it back the next day. Refocused myself and and feel the stress just ebb out of me. I know my minerals have healing powers. They take my mind off the rest of this messed up world. I wonder how much better they would be if I oriented them North, South, East and West?......... What's your thoughts Jeff. Would reorienting them help? You can give me your opinion at the next club meeting. Oh boy, am in for it!
.
7th May 2014 12:10 UTCRock Currier Expert
7th May 2014 12:33 UTCErik Vercammen Expert
7th May 2014 17:39 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager
7th May 2014 18:00 UTCReiner Mielke Expert
8th May 2014 20:24 UTCD Mike Reinke
Threads on minerals have even more power than the minerals themselves. A good thread makes me laugh, think, even marvel, as well as calm down. The good photography mysteriously amplifies the power, and a beer, as mentioned, all the more so. so...bring on the power!
P.S. Alfredo, calling a diamond a 'mutilated crystal', was awesome.
8th May 2014 20:42 UTCRoger Lang Manager
great stuff :-) ... could have been from myself. I am really pi**ed about all the politically correct stuff - and the healy feely people may do what they want but not in my realm and not at my booth (if i have any). I refused several times to sell minerals to people who told me they want to grind the mineral and give them as a cure to their kids (one time it was Vivianite, another time stibnite). Some of these people are dangerous to their environment (if they convince people not to visit a med) but most of them are harmless. They may harm themselves, they may get better by placebo effect, they may feel better if they purchased a common rock crystal as azeztulite or what ever it is called. But i feel free to tell them it is BS and yes, i even am inspired to design a similar "warning" ;-)
But OTOH ...... c´mon folks, there are quite far worse things in life these days .....
Cheers
Roger
8th May 2014 20:46 UTCRoger Lang Manager
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jeffrey,
>
> A modest suggestion for another sign for your
> establishment: "Please be advised that the
> owner(s) of this establishment confess to having a
> sense of humor."
And i second that statement Don :-)
8th May 2014 22:59 UTCRudy Bolona Expert
13th May 2014 07:36 UTCDale Foster Manager
As far as the 'politically correct' comments go, it is a pity that society now seems to be plagued by self-righteous members of the Cult of the Permanently Offended who feel the need to be horrified on behalf of people who are probably too busy getting on with their lives in the first place to give a sh*t.
13th May 2014 12:48 UTCGeorge deWit Chaney
13th May 2014 20:11 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert
13th May 2014 23:19 UTCKeith Wood
Galileo did far more to make the RC Church mad than just promote good science. He was a very outspoken and unrelenting critic of the RC Church on all kinds of matters, printing and distributing pamphlets against it.
Don't get me wrong. I'm for free speech. I deplore the way he was treated by the RC Chruch. It was inexcusable. I don't defend, support, or align with any of that. I'm just mentioning that their response to him was about a lot more than just science.
This business with taking a public shot at crystal healer types just seems to be in a different category. A big institution has it coming if they're being stupid. Such individuals won't be helped by taking shots at them however. It is just mocking.
21st May 2014 19:55 UTCReiner Mielke Expert
21st May 2014 23:36 UTCEugene & Sharon Cisneros Expert
Gene
22nd May 2014 05:59 UTCLeor Goldberg
As for the sign, I think it humorously points out his view on the healing of crystals. I didn't perceive it to be hateful or even biting, I think the sign is simply, a sign. it clearly shows the person's view on the subject, and as evidenced can also provoke a conversation on the topic. It's also funny :-D
22nd May 2014 18:40 UTCScott Braley
People believe many things that I consider absurd; I have values and preferences that others find stupid. This is the natural order of things.
You would have a hard time offending me with your beliefs, or with your comments on mine; annoy, aggravate, amuse, intrigue - these are much easier responses (for me at least) than offense.
I believe that crystal energy or healing is completely false, and is the province of the stupid and gullible, and those who prey on them. Question is, why would you care enough about my opinion to feel either offended or bullied?
22nd May 2014 22:42 UTCEugene & Sharon Cisneros Expert
I think that you answered your own question. (tu)
Cheers,
Gene
2nd Jun 2014 01:42 UTCGary Moldovany
2nd Jun 2014 04:38 UTCJoel Dyer
2nd Jun 2014 05:00 UTCJoel Dyer
18th Sep 2017 04:03 UTCDoug Daniels
18th Sep 2017 04:05 UTCDoug Schonewald
Some people still believe the earth is flat. Some people still believe the sun rotates around the earth. Some people still believe that through alchemy you can turn more common minerals or elements to gold or silver. Some people believe in witchcraft and sorcery. Some people believe we are descended from aliens. Some people believe crystals have mystic healing powers.
The metaphysical trade exists because people believe it works. Just because you believe something doesn't make it so.
19th Sep 2017 03:12 UTCA. M.
19th Sep 2017 12:08 UTCJason Evans
19th Sep 2017 14:50 UTCMichael Harwell
With this said, I wouldn't skip western medicine in place of crystals but do believe in the placebo effect.
Happiness is in the eye of the beholder. ( I know it is beauty is the eye of the beholder but this works too.).
And again, if it makes someone happy....then good for them. And it makes the crystal sellers happy. So everyone wins. Whether you believe or not.
My two cents.
19th Sep 2017 17:22 UTCRio Nevin
So a little kid found a stone supposedly made by a lightning from the recent storm, and someone believed (I don't remember the first person to believe that and the reason was though) that water that had been dipped by the stone possessed healing properties.
Since the kid's name was Ponari so the stone was dubbed "Batu Ponari" (Ponari's stone).
The news spread quickly and people started to line up at his house to get healed and it became a national news headline. Some people believed too much and they even drank the water coming from his home's drainage! Lol!
...I just watched the TV news at home, laughing all the time. This is simply unforgettable.
19th Sep 2017 20:21 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder
19th Sep 2017 20:28 UTCScott Rider
19th Sep 2017 21:33 UTCDoug Schonewald
I think a manager must have deleted her post on the thread.
19th Sep 2017 21:49 UTCScott Rider
19th Sep 2017 22:32 UTCEd Clopton 🌟 Expert
1. There's a difference between respecting a person and respecting an idea that he/she holds. It's possible--imperative, even--to respect a person with whom you disagree unless they have done something (other than disagree with you) to forfeit your respect. By treating people decently regardless of what we think of their beliefs we can reduce the overall blood pressure of the world significantly.
2. In communications, perception always trumps intent, in that the effect a message has on a listener is determined more by how he/she receives it than by how you meant it. Something that you mean in all seriousness may strike me as hilarious; something that you mean as an innocent joke may interact with some idea or bad memory of mine and make me furious. We can't be responsible for reading the minds of everyone who might receive some message we put forth, but we are responsible for taking reasonable care not to knowingly provoke others, especially just for our own entertainment.
19th Sep 2017 22:43 UTCDawn Markus
I wish I could share something funny with you, Scott. I hope you feel better soon. I recently had someone at my table this past weekend (local rock club show) who wouldn't tell me their name because they said, "I thought you were psychic - don't you already know?". I have never claimed to be psychic. Read again: I do not claim to be psychic. I run a rockshop. So, it is unfortunate the presumptions that have been made. People in my locale also assume that I have additional metaphysical abilities just because I sell rocks, and because I am a very loving and intuitive person. The advice I give is based on my personal life experience and I do not say things because I am psychic (ps. all humans have the potential to be psychic - it is a muscle like anything else)
I agree that most healers in the metaphysical realm are not legit, but there are at least 1% who can do what they say they can do.
I started as a collector in 1990 and yes, I personally enjoy applying metaphysical beliefs to my life, and that includes religious ceremony such as Sunday church and also celebrating the change of seasons. My business is aside from that - I would rather talk about geological and mineralogical first. Those who happen to encounter me might need someone's guidance, so I try to guide people the best I can based on who I am as a person and not as a mineral collector. This includes telling people that the best voice to listen to is their own, and the best tool to heal them is their own mind. Furthermore, I am an honest rockshop. If someone is sick, I don't try to sell them a rock - I will tell them to go and buy some colloidal silver, or oil of oregano, or tincture of olive leaf, because those are the top three germ killers in my humble opinion... and will act a lot faster than any other method of healing.
19th Sep 2017 23:15 UTCDaniel Bennett
20th Sep 2017 00:33 UTCMark Heintzelman 🌟 Expert
Understand: To have thorough or technical acquaintance with or expertness in the practice of
pretty sure you need to replace that word with this one;
Believe: To hold as an opinion.
"Magic" is exactly what that word infers, supernatural, not bound by the laws of nature, not real, illusionary.
Overall, I'm also pretty sure no one here is going to agree with what you "believe" you know. We deal in science and facts, not religion and dogma.
20th Sep 2017 01:40 UTCDoug Daniels
20th Sep 2017 18:44 UTCDaniel Bennett
20th Sep 2017 18:57 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager
20th Sep 2017 19:35 UTCDawn Markus
20th Sep 2017 20:24 UTCJorge Santos Garcia
People in the ancient times, like the Neolithic, the old Egyptian period, the Roman period, the Middle Age and even in the 18th century also believed in sorcery, magic, the healing power of rocks, animals parts, plants, stars and everything else and they died from a simple infection and have a medium life span of 40 years or so. It was the hygiene care, the modern/scientific medicine and nutrition knowledge that lead to the nowadays life span of 80 years (and still increasing) in the Western society/culture. In those times people died from cancer and they do not even know that cancer is a disease - it was "God's will".
AIDS, cancer, pneumonia, yellow fever, black plague and all of other diseases that killed thousands of millions of people in the (not so long ago) past were not cured or healed by quartz crystals or vivianite, but by investigation based in the scientific method. Otherwise, why do we spend millions of euros trying to find a cure for malaria if it can be treated by some crystal put in the underwear of some believer in crystals' magic powers?
But we know that are too many people in the world, so if someone has to die, why not firstly those that believe in the magic power of crystals? I never discuss with them - "Oh, you believe in that? Good for you". Maybe one sucker less. The same way if someone says that is disease is God's will, I reply - "If it is God's will why are you under medical care? Do you dare going against God's will?".
To believe in the healing power of crystals or animal parts is not only nonsense, is stupidity and a civilizational setback. And is responsible, in what respects to animals, for the pain or killing of millions of them (pangolins, sharks, rhinoceros, to name just a very few) and the danger of extinction of a lot of species - And this must be fought with all our strength.
Jorge Santos Garcia
PS - Once a women was talking to me saying that a quartz crystal is female in its left side and male in its right side (or vice versa, I do not remember). I asked - Your left side or my left side? And if I turn the crystal 90º? And if I turned it 180º degrees - your left side of the quartz crystal/my right side of the quartz crystal is now your right side of the quartz crystal/my left side of the quartz crystal - which are the male and female sides now? Needless to say that our conversation ended at that moment with no answer from her.
20th Sep 2017 20:32 UTCScott Rider
In any case, you are in the wrong place. Not many MinDat-ers will take your comments seriously. I find it disturbing that people are so quick to jump to the "easy" answer instead of actually trying to think for their own using COMMON SENSE, or maybe going a little further and doing research on their own... Maybe its laziness, maybe its not having the opportunity of having a good science education, or both.
Either way, it saddens me that people believe in such dribble. People that believe in a mystical world don't care to know the truth. They are either lazy or brainwashed and won't hear of any "empirical evidence" because it takes away their easy answers. The evidence these people bring forth usually are coincidences and/or are placebo effects... Is there a top scientific institution proving ANY of their wackadoo theories? All these people can come up with is anecdotal evidence. Nothing is ever confirmed with a top scientific institution, never correlated with other experiments from other scientists and usually the best evidence they can provide is from their customers... Its all snake oil.
Some say education is the answer... Well, maybe, but only if the student is listening... But will they???
20th Sep 2017 21:53 UTCScott Rider
Dawn, you are better off spouting your rhetoric elsewhere... No one here will take you seriously...
"Doctors arent all they are quacked up to be either. One should take responsibility for ones own healing." And saying this is not only stupid, but also extremely bad advice. Yes, you should take responsibility on your own health by seeing people who KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.
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Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2024, except where stated. Most political location boundaries are © OpenStreetMap contributors. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters. Founded in 2000 by Jolyon Ralph.
Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us / DMCA issues - Report a bug/vulnerability Current server date and time: May 14, 2024 18:02:35