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Identity HelpHilltop Mine, Arizona question

10th Nov 2019 17:03 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

The specimen here we purchased at the Kino's Rock shop in Tucson many years ago and the label clearly said "Hilltop Mine, Chiricahua Mts. Cochise Co. Arizona". I had collected at the Hilltop many times, all above ground but had never seen any specimens like this.

The Kino's Rock Shop had a lot of minerals and the labeling was good on other pieces we had purchased.

My question is whether anyone has seen anything like it from the Hilltop Mine before.

I would like to post photos of the piece but am uncertain of the label being correct.

Any help would be appreciated.

10th Nov 2019 17:06 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Couple of things I didn't put on the information above, specimen is in a 5x5cm box. The species on it are aurichalcite, rosasite and smithsonite in iron oxides.

10th Nov 2019 17:52 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Rolf,

I've never seen anything like this from the Hilltop. Could always be a one-time find but certainly there would be some mention of it somewhere. Also, I would fully expect there to be some wulfenite on it - it was everywhere in the Hilltop.

Chet

10th Nov 2019 18:07 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Hi Chet,

My first thought was the Kelly Mine in NM. Bit of a distance there but that is what I first thought. No wulfenite in the piece I found.

This piece was so well crystalized that it sure made me wonder. That is why I had not posted the photos. I still have a doubt as to Hilltop being the actual location.

That is the problem with a label, can be wrong.

Thanks for your input.

11th Nov 2019 04:46 UTCKevin Conroy Manager

My first thoughts were Southwest Mine, Bisbee or Ojuela Mine.

11th Nov 2019 07:14 UTCDana Slaughter 🌟 Expert

Dead ringer for an Ojuela mine piece but could be from elsewhere as mentioned. I found several problems at that shop in the past in regard to labels. Most frustrating, however, was the dangling of old and choice Ahumada mine wulfies "in the back" that the owner would not show!! Didn't leave on a good note.

11th Nov 2019 12:56 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Kevin, I did collect the SW Mine extensively and the problem here is the smithsonite, never saw it like this.

Dana, I had considered the Ojuela also but kept going back to Kelly for the reason of the smithsonite.

Yes, remember the pieces they didn't want to sell at Kino's, that was a bit frustrating. The times I went to the shop was in the 1970's.

Guess the piece will just remain a big ?. Nice specimen though.

Thanks for the inputs.

11th Nov 2019 13:02 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Here is one close up of the piece and the smithsonite was what had me wondering most of all.

Never saw any like it at SW Mine and Ojuela also was not often like this but could be. Just a shame with the piece having such nice species not to be able to trust the label. Also as Chet had said, never saw anything like it at Hilltop.

11th Nov 2019 13:04 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Here is a close up of the aurichalcite, very nice crystals and again a head scratcher since they do look different than many of the places I thought it could be from.

Still a nice piece.

11th Nov 2019 14:31 UTCDana Slaughter 🌟 Expert

Hi Rolf,

Are you sure that the clear/translucent material is smithsonite and not calcite. Back in the 70s a little rock shop near my home in MI had much Mexican material and the rosasites were often associated with this clear material. I was just a kid and assumed the stuff to be calcite. I miss the shop (long gone) as I could rake leaves or shovel driveways and earn enough money to buy such specimens for $1.50-3.50 each! I should have bought all the pink smithsonites he had and Mr. Gifford did have a $100 legrandite---about 1.5 inches long and terminated. Most expensive rock in his shop.

11th Nov 2019 14:36 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Dana,

Yes, I pretty well checked the material and it was smithsonite. Weight also told it was.

That rock shop story is cool, kind of reminded me of the one in Mexico, Agua Prieta, called La Azteca. That shop was pretty much like the one you described. At the time I was not a collector and I remember all the fantastic Mexican material he had for $2.50 a pound. That included legrandites too. I was just not knowledgable at the time and only picked up a few things. Ah, those fantastic deals of our youth.

11th Nov 2019 15:59 UTCTony L. Potucek Expert

Hi, Rolf. I just got back from the NM symposium and saw this post. I collected Hilltop a number of times over several decades and did not see this combination of minerals in question anywhere I collected. Best regards to you.

11th Nov 2019 16:26 UTCFrancis X Dzubeck

Rolf

No one has yet mentioned the Silver Bill Mine, Cochise County. This mineral combination occurs in the Copper Stope. The mine is well know for Rosasite, Smithsonite and Aurichalcite specimens. Also, timing is right for specimen production and their appearance in the 1970's at Kino's Rock Shop. The same also could be said for the Silver Hill Mine, Pima County. Silmilar specimens but the timing is not right for their appearance at the Rock Shop.

Dana, I did get one of those Los Lamentos specimens you saw but it only came loose (at a fair price) after I purchased a large Total Wreck Mine Wulfenite, a Glove Mine Wulfenite, few Azurite and a few Malachite specimens.

Frank

11th Nov 2019 17:27 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Hi Frank,

You know, you may have hit the location right. The matrix didn't look right for either the Hilltop or Kelly but I have also gotten material from the Silver Bill and you could have hit it.

Silver Hill in Pima I also have a number but matrix is not right for there. I think of all the ideas so far, yours is the closest so far.

You are correct with the time period as well, that is about when things were getting out of Gleeson.

That will definitely go onto the label as a good possibility.

Again, thanks all for the ideas.

6th Dec 2019 05:13 UTCJim McGlasson

Rolf,

Just checked the U of A Museum database and there were no oxide zinc species ---- BUT there is a sphalerite, quite unusual for the mine, so there could have been a small zone of zinc oxides.

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